How to win an argument with Liberals-Progressives-Socialists-etc...

POSTED BY: Wulfenstar
UPDATED: Thursday, June 16, 2011 09:23
VIEWED: 32999
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FREMDFIRMA

Thursday, June 9, 2011 4:13 AM

Meh, he's just having a tantrum cause someone called his worldview into question, as stated, evidencing a lack of maturity and good sense, as usual.
(Yes I'm mean as hell to him, and I have my reasons, let's leave it there.)

As for the folk I help, one of the *first* things I encourage them to DO once they reach the "i'm gonna be allright" point is to GO THE HELL AWAY - while his dimwitted assertions are meaningless, I know damn well imma terrible role model, and getting sucked into the biz of fighting some of the fights, and in the manner I do, is not good for anyones mental health whatever, thus to encourage that seperation yeah, I can be kind of mean, sure - but he's just being an ass, all that is.

And Gun Control ? HA! - yer talkin to someone who feels that *ANYTHING* man-portable should be legal without question, period.
The ONLY concession I'd ever make is requiring proof of competence as a condition of sale, and by NO means would I ever want THAT decision in Government hands, oh hell no.

But let him rant, just shows what lies beneath the facade he's tryin to sell.

-Frem

PS. Oh I wouldn't MIND, Happy, and on a rare occasion you'll get one, but only after his little bumrush of bullshit gets trampled and he has to think for himself - which I really wish the hell he'd DO on a more frequent basis!

1KIKI

Thursday, June 9, 2011 4:39 AM

Wulf

"The world and the city were better places before the high hand of the moral fanatics held such sway."

Moral fanatics like you perhaps who have the only truth of individualism, aggression and, oh yes,guns? Or do you refer to the American Family Association and its chief spokesman Bryan Fischer who repeatedly demands that the US deport all Muslims?

I could go on, but rather than be tedious I HOPE you understand from these examples that there are many, MANY intolerant, self-righteous, closed-minded fanatics - of all ideologies.

SIGNYM

Thursday, June 9, 2011 4:43 AM

Quote:
But a philosphy that encourages gun control, single parent households, spreading wealth, welfare, PC, and all of the other garbage.... IS.

Well, I have no idea what single philosophy that would be. Even the dreaded librulizm doesn't do that.

SIGNYM

Thursday, June 9, 2011 4:47 AM

Hardware speaks as I wish I could speak. I just don't have the patience or the kindness.- Wulf
Or the ability- Story
Or the talent. Or the smarts.-Kwicko

Gotta say, guys, even Hardware doesn't have ability, talent or smarts.

RIONAEIRE

Thursday, June 9, 2011 5:56 AM

I'm with ya on home schooling Happy, I'm opposed to it most of the time. If you live in the arctic wilderness and there isn't a school around then sure. But otherwise uh uh. I do however think that home school co-ops are okay, where a group of parents form a collective and all teach and the kids are interacting with each other etc. That is okay with me and I consider it different than home schooling.

But I wouldn't make home schooling illegal, I just don't approve of it. Legally it should probably be allowed as long as the kids are meeting benchmarks for their age group.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

KWICKO

Thursday, June 9, 2011 11:24 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Hardware speaks as I wish I could speak. I just don't have the patience or the kindness.- Wulf
Or the ability- Story
Or the talent. Or the smarts.-Kwicko

Gotta say, guys, even Hardware doesn't have ability, talent or smarts.

Well true, but when compared to Wulfie, he's a Rhodes scholar.

KWICKO

Thursday, June 9, 2011 11:29 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by TheHappyTrader:
Homeschooling, what a great idea. We can take more chances (and liberties) with our children's education while delaying their social development. Everybody wins!

I realize this can work out differently under the right circumstances with intelligent and dedicated enough parents, but in general I think it is a bad idea, even more so then public school. Remember, while you are training your children your children are also training you, they're crafty and perceptive like that. There is a real benefit to having multiple instructors and peers for them to develop socially along side.

((don't remember who I clicked reply to or why, but this is a general comment, not aimed at one person))

1) You clicked to reply to me, apparently, because I got a notification. :)

2) I don't take it personally. :)

3) Pretty much with ya on homeschooling. I don't have a HUGE problem with it, as I've said, but I have concerns. 'Course, I have concerns with public education, too, but tend to view just about ANY education as preferable to NO education.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

BYTEMITE

Thursday, June 9, 2011 2:11 PM

Homeschooling. Not opposed to it, somewhat neutral so to speak. I can see the points for both sides.

The main thing about homeschooling is that the biggest group that wants it are the religious fundamentalists. There's nothing too wrong with that, though we'll have to walk a tightrope of individual rights versus rights to practice religion. Definitely ritualistic murder shouldn't be tolerated, and backwards punishments of rape victims. But I also think we have to support some degree of diversity and culture so humanity isn't some homogenous soulless thing, everyone the same.

I figure that most of the kids who are coming from a background like that aren't going to accept science anyway or become scientists, so it's not like we damage human prospects for revolutionary new theories or technology by people believing any of this stuff.

I do have some qualms about parents overriding their own children's will in terms of beliefs and life choices, and I also find those parents who want to live vicariously through their children pretty offensive, so I consider those pitfalls as well.

There's also questions of convenience: in this fast paced world with ever increasing inflation, it can be hard for even one of the parents to stay home for the schooling. And there's some children with needs that might overwhelm the parents.

But on the plus side of the equation, homeschooling is probably less stressful, what's more, it's been done for a LONG time before now. I hesitate to say it might be more natural, because that's usually shakey grounds for an argument, but I also think it's probably not an unreasonable conclusion.

Public schools have a lot of downsides, with very few upsides, at least how they're organized right now. Really they're best for the aforementioned kids of busy parents and kids with needs.

Kids are going to make friends and socialize wherever, they don't need to go to a building for that. So I question that assertion, especially since schools also trap kids with kids and sometimes adults who are decidedly not their friends. The big kids on campus become psychopaths, and the bullied kids, well, Frem's article on violence geeks is probably apt.

Schools are also geared towards breaking down free will, but they do it as a matter of course, so the kids will "function" in society. But maybe the problem isn't the kids, maybe the problem is a society that needs a bunch of cubicle dwellers at desks. School also trains kids to submit to authority and not to question, it creates a culture of victimhood and lack of self-determination.

I appreciate what teachers are trying to do, and I don't think any of this is particularly their fault (unless they happen to be abusive teachers, then they're contributing to the problem). But there are some major problems with the schooling system that I think we can all agree with, and that's not even getting into the latest trends where we have security guards and police patrols and certain schools become more like a prison.

SKYDIVELIFE

Thursday, June 9, 2011 2:34 PM

Sorry to just put my 2 cents in here but, I knew several children who were home-schooled.

One of them was raised by extreemly religious people and did have real difficulty in making friends.

The others were home-schooled by their parents because they wanted to make sure their children got a good education. They were really nice people, and their kids were really intelligent.

I guess its just a matter of who is teaching what and how.

THEHAPPYTRADER

Thursday, June 9, 2011 2:42 PM

Byte, children may have the ability to make friends, but that won't mean much if they are not given the opportunity. (Also the ability is not flawlessly innate, it does have to be practiced and acquired). Granted my experience is primarily children within the Autistic spectrum, but I have observed a HUGE difference between the children who go the school and those who stay at home. The children who go to school are far more vocal and responsive and not because they are receiving quality special education in the schools. I go there in the mornings and they are too overwhelmed, often resorting to group teaching that most of the children are unable to follow. It's being with their peers. In a school (or even a day care arguably) they are with their age group. In theory this can be accomplished in homeschooling as well, but I haven't seen it yet.

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