'...I'm Batman.'
POSTED BY: chrisisall
UPDATED: Tuesday, November 30, 2010 21:48
VIEWED: 14249
PAGE 4 of 11
Originally posted by chrisisall:
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While I liked Clooney's Wayne very much, it was too one dimensional (kind of like the movie itself, I'll admit)- Keaton's Wayne seemed damaged, and I liked that. Of course, his Batman was near perfection, at least to me.
Kilmer seemed to be sleepwalking through both roles, and Bale's Wayne seemed too needy & whining.
Again, to ME.
By the time Joel Schumacher came on board to direct those films the momentum of the previous two Batman's were such that you could've made Kermit the Frog The Caped Crusader and people would still have gone to see it!... Actually I'd probably go see a Muppet Batman spoof... Anyway point being I think it neither Clooney or Kilmer's fault at how they interpreted Bruce Wayne/Batman. The marketing machine was such that it was inconsequential who adorned the rubber suit. They were merely beefcake for hire...
Cartoons - http://cirqusartsandmusic.blogspot.com
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Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
I guess it all boils down to my favourite Batman live action moment- in the 1989 flick where he intentionally drops Jack into his chemical fate. The look in Keaton's eyes was priceless, and painful. I still get goosebumps to this day watching it.
Agreed.
Also In Batman Returns when the Circus Gang are bothering an old lady and Batman is merely just looking on. He doesn't move to help her. It's when the gang notice Batman and make a move for him that he then reacts. Always thought that extremely telling of the character of Batman.
Cartoons - http://cirqusartsandmusic.blogspot.com
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Quote:
Originally posted by TheSomnambulist:
Bale's Wayne is just a type of obvious charade, where as Keaton is oozing angst and brooding physchosis and clearly deeply scarred. A
Well.... that's kinda the point, and how it's supposed to be. Bale's Wayne is only an obvious charade to the omniscient observer. In context, he is exactly what people expect from a spoiled trust-fund brat. It's the point of his cover. The public isn't supposed to see his real personality.
"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."
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Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Hell, give me Clooney. 12 Hells, give me Adam West!!
But Bale & Nolan delivered realism couched in fantasy.
Please Nolan, PICK ONE!!!!!!!!!!!!! Are we real or are we fantasy????
I can't even take you seriously on the subject now.
"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."
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I grew up with Keaton, he will always be the cool Batman for me.
Also, you got Nicholson, Basinger, and no whiny sidekick!!!
I roam the rooftops alone, birdboy... 
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Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Hell, give me Clooney. 12 Hells, give me Adam West!!
But Bale & Nolan delivered realism couched in fantasy.
Please Nolan, PICK ONE!!!!!!!!!!!!! Are we real or are we fantasy????
I can't even take you seriously on the subject now.
Ditto.
Just because something can't be explained doesn't mean it becomes yours.
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Quote:
Originally posted by PhoenixRose:Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Hell, give me Clooney. 12 Hells, give me Adam West!!
But Bale & Nolan delivered realism couched in fantasy.
Please Nolan, PICK ONE!!!!!!!!!!!!! Are we real or are we fantasy????
I can't even take you seriously on the subject now.
Ditto.
It took you guys this long to not take him seriously on this? Hell, he lost me right off, when he said Ledger was aping Lee.
No, dude. No. Not even the makeup was similar. You're officially deluded on the subject. You shouldn't pretend otherwise.
The Nolan movies truly bring the comic books to life. They are comic books on film, basically. When I'm interested in seeing my comic book Batman in a film, I go for those. When I am interested in Ham and Cheese, I might go for one of the others.
Now, you folks can argue til the cows come home about what is most fun to watch, but if you're going to talk about telling a good story, the early films clearly weren't even aiming for that. They were aiming for Camp. Possibly even aiming for Cheese. They were aiming for fun or spectacular visuals. Weren't aiming for quality storytelling. I think Burton even lampshaded that when he had the Joker asking where Batman got all those wonderful toys. That was never explained in the films, it was just kind of handwaved away as, "Well, Batman has cool stuff, because he's Batman." The Nolan films set out to tell the story, give us answers (however unlikely some of them were) and actually develop some characters. I wouldn't call them flawless, far from it, but in terms of quality storytelling in a live-action Batman franchise, that's where it's at.
Facts are stubborn things.
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Originally posted by LiLi:
Quote:
It took you guys this long to not take him seriously on this? Hell, he lost me right off, when he said Ledger was aping Lee.
No, dude. No. Not even the makeup was similar. You're officially deluded on the subject. You shouldn't pretend otherwise.
The Nolan movies truly bring the comic books to life. They are comic books on film, basically. When I'm interested in seeing my comic book Batman in a film, I go for those. When I am interested in Ham and Cheese, I might go for one of the others.
Now, you folks can argue til the cows come home about what is most fun to watch, but if you're going to talk about telling a good story, the early films clearly weren't even aiming for that. They were aiming for Camp. Possibly even aiming for Cheese. They were aiming for fun or spectacular visuals. Weren't aiming for quality storytelling. I think Burton even lampshaded that when he had the Joker asking where Batman got all those wonderful toys. That was never explained in the films, it was just kind of handwaved away as, "Well, Batman has cool stuff, because he's Batman." The Nolan films set out to tell the story, give us answers (however unlikely some of them were) and actually develop some characters. I wouldn't call them flawless, far from it, but in terms of quality storytelling in a live-action Batman franchise, that's where it's at.
Hey Lili.
Very well put, and diffilcult to argue against. However if I may make a point; and I don't wish to speak for Chris, but I think what he may be hinting at is that once you start to do just what Nolan did to Batman - which is remove it's comic elements and try and establish it within the context of reality the very priciple of the Batman persona starts to become ridiculous.
Simply because there's no way of explaining such things as 'the gadgets' within the context of reality and yet continue to have your central character leap off buildings, dodge exploding cars and still maintain his secret identity etc. It's a kind of selective reality.
Sometimes those moments where the Joker says: "Where does he get those wonderful toys?" Are in place to act as a tonic and allow you to swallow the fantasy.
That said - I do think you're right about Nolan. He's far more cerebral about his filmmaking and he is always about telling a good story and for that he should be celebrated.
It's just that sometimes it's nice to be taken in by the wonder of it all.
Cartoons - http://cirqusartsandmusic.blogspot.com
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I would argue that its 'comic' elements were not removed, but rather celebrated. Too many people associate comic books with cheese, but they are not actually like that. Many comic books are cerebral, of high quality and awesome fantasy. I've argued this point with more than one English Lit instructor in the course of my degree. It's a mistake to view something designed for escapism as necessarily vacuous. Escapism can have a backstory, and will often benefit from it. The backstory itself can be an interesting bit of fantasy. I don't think very many people study with ninjas in the mountains, and I've certainly never heard of something like memory cloth, so specialized for one purpose that it would probably not be developed for another. However, seeing such elements in a story about a man who becomes a superhero who is completely lacking in any super-power, it grants a richness to the fantasy that delights me.
I will repeat: The Nolan movies bring the comic books to life. They are comic books on film. When I'm interested in seeing my comic book Batman in a film, I go for those.
Facts are stubborn things.
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Quote:
Originally posted by LiLi:
I've certainly never heard of something like memory cloth,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smart_material
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shape_memory_polymer
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smart_rubber
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dielectric_elastomers
http://news.discovery.com/tech/t-shirt-body-armor-tank.html
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The scientists started with a $5 package of plain, white T-shirts purchased at Wal-Mart, which they then cut into thin strips. They dipped those white cotton strips into a black solution of boron. After an hour, the strips were removed from the solution and baked in at oven at more than 1,000 degrees Celsius (1832 degrees Fahrenheit) for an hour. The heat stripped away anything that wasn't carbon or boron, and combined these two elements into boron carbide.
The resulting fabric is very different than the original materials that at the start of the process. It's lighter, stronger, tougher and stiffer than the original cotton, but it can still be bent, unlike normal boron carbide armor plates. The physical properties of the new fabric are still being tested, said Li, but "from our preliminary results we can say the test have been very, very promising."
"We expect that the nanowires can capture a bullet," said Li.
The former T-shirt can also block other hazards as well, such as cancer-causing ultraviolet light from the sun and even life-threatening neutrons emitted by decaying radioactive materials, said Li.
One can only assume this research was funded in part by a grant from Wayne Industries, and possibly by Lexcorp as well. . .
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We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.
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