'...I'm Batman.'
POSTED BY: chrisisall
UPDATED: Tuesday, November 30, 2010 21:48
VIEWED: 14249
PAGE 6 of 11
Quote:Well, OBVIOUSLY they're not the same, but similar enough to make me not able to take the Joker in TDK as anything other than 'heavily influenced' by The Crow. And, it takes me out of the movie.
Originally posted by Storymark:
I went 'round with Chris on that point before. Calling the performances the same is facile and simplistic at best.
Sorry, big fan of The Crow here, so if I wasn't, I prolly would have seen Ledger's/Nolan's take of the Joker as fresh and new...
The laughing Chrisisall
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Quote:jo·vi·al (jv-l)
Originally posted by LiLi:
That's it? That is angst and anger, with some darkly dry humor. Telling a joke isn't necessarily jovial. I think you should maybe look up the word jovial.
adj.
Marked by hearty conviviality and good cheer: a jovial host.
And, ummm, when was Ledger's Joker full of good cheer? I was taking jovial as "not just angry" in the context of our discussion.
Lee told the joke & killed the guy.
Ledger killed a guy & told a joke.
Same diff to me.
The laughing Chrisisall
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Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
when was Ledger's Joker full of good cheer?
In the video with the fake Batman, in the interrogation scene, during the chase when he was driving the truck, and while he was hanging upside-down off a building, just to name a few. Did you actually see this movie? Was all the delighted laughter edited out or something? The Joker delights in death and chaos. Much of the inspiration for TDK Joker came from the comic "The Killing Joke" which wonderfully shows off the deep psychosis of the Joker. Life is a joke. Death is a joke. Chaos is fun. Killing is fun. It's pretty dark, so maybe some parallel could be drawn with other characters who are deep into darkness, but really that's pretty insubstantial.
Facts are stubborn things.
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Okay, here's what we got. You guys who love the Nolan Batman flicks love them, period. I get that.
Thing of it is, if you take a somewhat flawed movie that I really love, like, oh, say, 2010, you can hand me a laundry list of things you don't like about it, and I'll probably acknowledge most if not all the points, and end with "but I like it anyway for the overall product, or at least what good points it has that are important to ME."
In the words of a certain character, "Why so serious?"
The laughing Chrisisall
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Quote:That's a good point. Joker was amused, Draven was not. Big difference in the characters. Still, the superficial similarities (among a bunch of other issues I have with it) are enough to make me avoid watching TDK for a third time.
Originally posted by LiLi:
Life is a joke. Death is a joke. Chaos is fun. Killing is fun.
*Runs off to watch Batman Returns*
The laughing Chrisisall
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Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Okay, here's what we got. You guys who love the Nolan Batman flicks love them, period. I get that.
Thing of it is, if you take a somewhat flawed movie that I really love, like, oh, say, 2010, you can hand me a laundry list of things you don't like about it, and I'll probably acknowledge most if not all the points, and end with "but I like it anyway for the overall product, or at least what good points it has that are important to ME."
In the words of a certain character, "Why so serious?"
The laughing Chrisisall
I have no problem acknowledging problems in films I like. I could list several about TDK itself. But when you're wrong you're wrong. It has nothing to do with being unable to see flaws.
"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."
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Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:Quote:Well, OBVIOUSLY they're not the same, but similar enough to make me not able to take the Joker in TDK as anything other than 'heavily influenced' by The Crow. And, it takes me out of the movie.
Originally posted by Storymark:
I went 'round with Chris on that point before. Calling the performances the same is facile and simplistic at best.
Sorry, big fan of The Crow here, so if I wasn't, I prolly would have seen Ledger's/Nolan's take of the Joker as fresh and new...
The laughing Chrisisall
And yet you see Jack's "Jack at 11" as some great performance?
Whatever.
"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."
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Quote:
Originally posted by OPPYH:
TDK BAtman, and girl free fall from the top of a 20 story building crash on top of a car flattening it...get up brush themselves off, and walk away. Fantasy or reality. Pick One.
You see no difference between a guy landing on his feet from a height and breaking his legs (plain shoes, straight leg, pressure all focused on one point, no give to the ground) and a guy wearing an armored suit designed for such situations, with a cape designed to break such falls, landing on a surface with has several feet of give? You see them as the same?
Take a physics class, and/or remove the stick from your hind-quarters....
"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."
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Quote:I'm officially lost here...
Originally posted by Storymark:
And yet you see Jack's "Jack at 11" as some great performance?
?
The laughing Chrisisall
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Quote:
Originally posted by LiLi:Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
when was Ledger's Joker full of good cheer?
In the video with the fake Batman, in the interrogation scene, during the chase when he was driving the truck, and while he was hanging upside-down off a building, just to name a few. Did you actually see this movie? Was all the delighted laughter edited out or something? The Joker delights in death and chaos. Much of the inspiration for TDK Joker came from the comic "The Killing Joke" which wonderfully shows off the deep psychosis of the Joker. Life is a joke. Death is a joke. Chaos is fun. Killing is fun. It's pretty dark, so maybe some parallel could be drawn with other characters who are deep into darkness, but really that's pretty insubstantial.
Facts are stubborn things.
And that's not even touching on all the other bits of the performance.
Lee was great as the Crow, but let's face it - he played a Goth/Emo version of himself. Wry and charming, but with an edge. Playing his martial arts training up, making him come off a bit like a bird of prey. Effective for the role, but not really more than a sadder version of every other role he had played. He was very effective at playing a variation on himself.
Ledger played a character that was incredibly different from his own persona, or any other character he'd ever played. And his line deliveries were all very precise and deliberate, all done with a specific regional accent from the opposite side of the world he was raised in, which played well off the mass of physical ticks and quirks he played the character with. He won an Oscar for playing a unique character, totally removed from his own self and distinct from any other character out there (unless you fixate on the make-up, that is).
"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."
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