Another 'Religion of Peace' moment, brought to you by.....yep, ISLAM!
POSTED BY: AURaptor
UPDATED: Wednesday, February 12, 2025 15:05
VIEWED: 23038
PAGE 6 of 25
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The definitive statement about this whole thing, Trader, thank you. Whatever a religion is BEGUN as, it's humans who interpret it, and that's where it goes wrong, almost invariably, at some time and in some way.
Corrupted religious interpretation is merely a tool, kinda like political parties.
In response to your question about Islam and peacefulness, I hunted around a bit and found some history on that:Quote:
Much more of Islamic history at http://www.barkati.net/english/
From the oasis cities of Makkah and Madinah in the Arabian desert, the message of Islam went forth with electrifying speed. Within half a century of the Prophet's death, Islam had spread to three continents. Islam is not, as some imagine in the West, a religion of the sword nor did it spread primarily by means of war. It was only within Arabia, where a crude form of idolatry was rampant, that Islam was propagated by warring against those tribes which did not accept the message of God--whereas Christians and Jews were not forced to convert. Outside of Arabia also the vast lands conquered by the Arab armies in a short period became Muslim not by force of the sword but by the appeal of the new religion. It was faith in One God and emphasis upon His Mercy that brought vast numbers of people into the fold of Islam. The new religion did not coerce people to convert. Many continued to remain Jews and Christians and to this day important communities of the followers of these faiths are found in Muslim lands.
During later centuries the Turks embraced Islam peacefully as did a large number of the people of the Indian subcontinent and the Malay-speaking world. In Africa also, Islam has spread during the past two centuries even under the mighty power of European colonial rulers.Quote:
Upon the death of the Prophet, Abu Bakr, the friend of the Prophet and the first adult male to embrace Islam, became caliph. Abu Bakr ruled for two years to be succeeded by 'Umar who was caliph for a decade and during whose rule Islam spread extensively east and west. It was 'Umar who marched on foot at the end of the Muslim army into Jerusalem and ordered the protection of Christian sites.
The Abbasids, who succeeded the Umayyads, shifted the capital to Baghdad which soon developed into an incomparable center of learning and culture as well as the administrative and political heart of a vast world. They ruled for over 500 years but gradually their power waned and they remained only symbolic rulers bestowing legitimacy upon various sultans and princes who wielded actual military power. The Abbasid caliphate was finally abolished when Hulagu, the Mongol ruler, captured Baghdad in 1258, destroying much of the city including its incomparable libraries.
When the Abbasids captured Damascus, one of the Umayyad princes escaped and made the long journey from there to Spain to found Umayyad rule there, thus beginning the golden age of Islam in Spain. Cordoba was established as the capital and soon became Europe's greatest city not only in population but from the point of view of its cultural and intellectual life. The Umayyads ruled over two centuries until they weakened and were replaced by local rulers.
Meanwhile in North Africa, various local dynasties held sway until two powerful Berber dynasties succeeded in uniting much of North Africa and also Spain in the 12th and 13th centuries. After them this area was ruled once again by local dynasties such as the Sharifids of Morocco who still rule in that country. As for Spain itself, Muslim power continued to wane until the last Muslim dynasty was defeated in Granada in 1492 thus bringing nearly eight hundred years of Muslim rule in Spain to an end.
While the Ottomans were concerned mostly with the western front of their empire, to the east in Persia a new dynasty called the Safavids came to power in 1502. The Safavids established a powerful state of their own which flourished for over two centuries and became known for the flowering of the arts. Their ca
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Anthony, that is an amazingly cogent book report...on the Bible. You nailed every point! Was that sneakily deliberate, or did you not intend it? If it was deliberate, how come I'm the only one who picked up on it?
Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off 
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kane, stop supporting me in public; i'd rather have the support of NAMBLA. i'll get high with you, but i shall not agree with you, ever.
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"it appears to me as if quite a bit of the Muslim faith involved peaceful conversion and a high degree of civilization."
Hello,
Well, it pretty much parallels the experience of other major monotheisms.
The Roman Empire converted to a monotheistic religion, which flipped the belief system of most of the known world, and without 'conquest by the sword.'
Most monotheistic religions were prepared to tolerate similar monotheistic religions, while butchering 'paganistic idol-worshipping barbarians' wherever they could be found.
And it seems most monotheistic religions have at some point warred with themselves over the true nature of their belief system, variously calling one flavor or another an illigitimate version and persecuting its followers. This seems to ebb and flow through the ages.
The report card of most major monotheisms are pretty similar, from where I stand.
--Anthony
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"Anthony, that is an amazingly cogent book report...on the Bible. You nailed every point! Was that sneakily deliberate, or did you not intend it? If it was deliberate, how come I'm the only one who picked up on it?"
Hello,
It's no accident, Niki, and it is deliberate only because it is necessary.
The Quran didn't spring up from the aether, but is rather built upon the foundation of Christianity, which is built on the foundation of Judaism.
If the book report reads similarly, it's because Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are just three variations of the same story, like a Hollywood hack just kept revving out sequels and re-imaginings to make a buck.
ETA: This is basically how it goes. Jews - We believe in God. Christians - We believe in God + Jesus. Muslims - We believe in God + Jesus + Mohammed. Each one just adds a new chapter to the story while accepting the previous chapters whole, sometimes with minor edits or revisions.
--Anthony
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Quote:
Originally posted by TheHappyTrader:
Huh, interesting. Oh and I wasn't calling you out or anything, was just getting sick of the all the "yeah but christian's are worse" arguments. Thanks :)
NOT "worse". Just not really any different.
No worries; I didn't think you were "calling me out", or didn't have a problem with it if you were. It's allowed. :)
My entire point has been that what we seem awfully quick to blame on the RELIGION of Islam, we seem awfully quick to point out as the acts of INDIVIDUALS when those same acts are done by non-Muslims.
I pointed out a few days ago that Glen Back AND Ron Paul have both made almost word-for-word the exact same statements that have gotten Imam Rauf branded as a "terrorist" and "radical" (the idea that the U.S. played a role in the policies and events that led up to 9/11). I was responded to with things like "Yeah, but it's different, because HE'S A MUSLIM!"
So we as a nation seem to believe in freedom of religion, and freedom of speech... unless it's a *Muslim* trying to exercise those rights we allegedly hold to be self-evident and unalienable. ;)
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Maybe Islam isn't so peaceful after all, but I'll wait until I've done personal research into it before committing to that opinion.
Edit: peaceful origins or no, it's still people responsible, regardless
Yes indeed.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
Anthony, that is an amazingly cogent book report...on the Bible. You nailed every point! Was that sneakily deliberate, or did you not intend it? If it was deliberate, how come I'm the only one who picked up on it?
Because the rest of us were biting our tongues, waiting for someone to wander in and take the bait. ;)
AURaptor's Greatest Hits:
Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.
Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.
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Quote:
Originally posted by mincingbeast:
kane, stop supporting me in public; i'd rather have the support of NAMBLA. i'll get high with you, but i shall not agree with you, ever.
Too late. I am forever your anti-evil minion. By definition we shall agree or disagree not to agree to disagree with the disagree-ers. Otherwise YOU are evil and I am a god...We can't have that. Can we? If you can't agree with me then that leaves you disagreeing with the agreeable, which we have both agreed is EVIL. Therefore, we must both agree with each-other in fear of being Evil..Mince, I like being an asshole but do not want to be evil. What do I do?
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Ahh Anthony, I see. And I agree. And that's something that has always made me shake my head; all three religions are so close, even linked by family blood, yet... y'know?
It speaks to the weirdness of our little species and our need to hate and fear "the other"...Quote:
That one made me frown, too...hasn't everyone at this point heard and/or accepted that our bullying tactics around the world helped create the hatred that led in part to 9/11? I thought that was kind of accepted, right back from when it HAPPENED!
I pointed out a few days ago that Glen Back AND Ron Paul have both made almost word-for-word the exact same statements that have gotten Imam Rauf branded as a "terrorist" and "radical" (the idea that the U.S. played a role in the policies and events that led up to 9/11). I was responded to with things like "Yeah, but it's different, because HE'S A MUSLIM!"
I wouldn't be at all surprised to learn that Ron Paul had said it--Beck is more surprising, but what's not at ALL surprising is that they should say it, no problem, but a Muslim say it: TERRORIST! Kinda like "I can beat my wife, but don't you dare touch her!"
Strange little species...
Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off
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"I wouldn't be at all surprised to learn that Ron Paul had said it"
Hello,
Not only did Ron Paul say it during the 2008 election run, but he got yelled at by the Giuliani for it if memory serves.
He had a cogent defense for his opinion, though: The CIA said it first in their own evaluation of 9/11.
I believe the exact phrase was 'blowback.' As in, 'we are experiencing blowback for our actions around the globe.'
--Anthony
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