Another 'Religion of Peace' moment, brought to you by.....yep, ISLAM!
POSTED BY: AURaptor
UPDATED: Wednesday, February 12, 2025 15:05
VIEWED: 23038
PAGE 4 of 25
My statement, shaky though it is, is in little danger of refutation, and I fear you have an excess of perspective. I despise religion in general, yet even I am able to admit differences and degrees in religious extremism. See, some extremists are content to waive a "god hates fags" sign at you. Others won't be happy til they slit your infidel throat. I never thought that pointing out the obvious could be so problematic. And while the former is more of an issue in my day to day life, I still find the latter offensive and detestable, without need for qualification.
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I don't see any qualification of what Muslim extremists do by putting it in historical perspective. Please check out that post, I made a joke at the end, but the material should give you a true view of the point I'm trying to make.
I wasn't trying to say Christian extremists are as dangerous here, now, as Muslim terrorists are now, anywhere, but that both have done very similar things throughtout history, so neither is better than the other in that respect.
While we find what's happening NOW to be one way, what has happened BEFORE has been the other, or yet one different from either. I see almost every religion, or person within that religion, as capable o horrific things, GIVEN the time, conditions, situation, power of those preaching that religion, and on and on.
I have more fear of Christian fundamentalists HERE by far, insofar as they can affect the laws by which I live, than I do the Muslim extremists anywhere, given I have FAR more chance of dying in a car crash than anything terrorist-like happening to me. But that doesn't mean I think one is any more evil than the other, just that both religions can be used wrongly to incite people.
I also happen to agree with Byte in that Quote:
--I think their time has passed to have any real power except on a state level...Bush made them think they were coming into power, but it turned out he was just using them for the most part. But they CAN affect legislation, and an individual one of them CAN do things which impact my life, so it is they I would fear first.
The religious right thing as I see it are a group who someone goes to if they want to rile up a response, not a group they take orders from
Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off 
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"excuses current muslim misconduct."
Hello,
I hope no one has excused anything.
Is that what it sounds like, then? That would explain a lot of the abrasiveness on this issue.
It's not "Christians and Muslims both produce fucktards, so Muslims are okay when they are fucktards."
I believe it's more a suggestion that all Fucktards be dealt with in equal terms, and on specific terms.
When we target the people who share the religion of Fucktard A, while ignoring the people who share the religion of Fucktard B, we need to examine ourselves and our motives.
i.e. Muslims didn't attack the U.S. Muslims aren't responsible for placating our fears and insecurities about those attacks. There is no reason to target Muslims in regards to the construction location of their temples or other buildings.
Fucktards did do those horrible things, but Fucktardery is such an amorphous, nebulous thing that people can't grab ahold of it or point to it or protest the location of its buildings. We can declare war on it, but we can't always find it, or contain it, or beat it. So we see Fucktardery where it doesn't exist.
Hey, if Muslims have a higher percentage of Fucktardery per capita, let's just paint the brush clear across the whole lot, ESPECIALLY when they want to make a preposterous declaration like, "We're not all Fucktards."
And that's the purpose of all these analogies, counter-analogies, comparisons, and metaphors. To try and make people see that it is Fucktardery that unifies these Fucktards, and not religion.
At the end of the day, people who didn't do a horrible illegal thing are being persecuted for the audacity of doing a different legal thing next to the first thing that they didn't do.
That bothers some of us to no end.
If it bothers you, too, Mince, help us refine and improve our argument.
--Anthony
Due to the use of Naomi 3.3.2 Beta web filtering, the following people may need to private-message me if they wish to contact me: Auraptor, Kaneman, Piratenews. I apologize for the inconvenience.
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Ahhhh! "What Anthony Said"...thank you Anthony, for being able to say clearly what I couldn't.
Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off
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Y'know, Mince, the devil for whom you're advocating is kind of a ninny. If indeed Islam has "adherents trying to spread it by the sword in 2010" then where are they, what is their impressive strategy against us and, most importantly, whom have they already conquered in 2010?
Seems to me, WE conquered largely secularist Iraq FOR THEM, far more effectively than they ever could--though I'm sure Iran will be happy to take our sloppy seconds. Your argument HINGES on this cockamamie notion of ISLAMINTERN, some kinda harebrained domino theory--well, where are the freakin' dominoes?
Meanwhile, we had a rather vocal Christian General conquering the evil Muslims until just a few months ago. Our "Christian nation" has conquered, or at least trashed and currently dominates two ostensibly Muslim nations--and counting. In this context, saying that "Islam is evil" is not just a bigoted opinion, it is a bigoted foreign policy and a stated justification for world domination--by us!
Maybe your statement can't be refuted because it's trivial--so narrowly focused as to be worthless except as a propagandist's talking point.
HKCavalier
Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.
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Nothing bothers me but Muslims, of whose spilled blood I am awful fond. Actually, inconsistency bothers me, so long as it is not my own.
When a believer misbehaves and justifies his conduct by pointing to the Koran, there is a tendency to blame the individual and behave as if he came up with the notion with no context. When a believer misbehaves and cites Jesus, there is a tendency to blame the Bible. There are offensive passages in the Christians holy book to be sure, and those that counsel violence. But as repeatedly stressed, who most often cites them? Proud christians with blood on their hands, or my fellow atheists when discussing islamic violence?
The issue troubles, because 1) I hate to agree with the religious right on anything and 2) I have been trained to forbear picking on minorities.
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Three times Niki - don't forget WTC 1993 as well, and WHO gave them the bomb, hmmm ?
As for christian "forebearance" here - well why should they let slip the mask, they GOT what they wanted, a government and society that pounds THEIR principles home every bloody chance it gets...
Seriously, just think what my opinion of laws against adultery, bigamy, same-sex marriage and the like ARE as a Polyamorous Anarchist ?
Do you think those are MY values ?
And yet they are codified into law!
And so it is, the christians do not HAVE to commit that level of violence here because they simply have the state do it for them - to the degree that outright violence is no longer necessary in the course of ramming their values down everyones throat.
Just because that aggression takes place behind the perceived legitimacy of a tin badge, a wooden gavel, or a tax collectors pen, instead of AK-47s, honor killings and thrown stones, makes it no less a form of aggression, no less an offense, and no less morally wrong.
-Frem
I do not serve the Blind God.
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I'm confused. Could you clarify that, Mincing? I've heard an awful lot of fundamentalists explain their actions, hate, discrimination AND VIOLENCE by quoting passages from the Bible, so what are you saying? Or are you being facetious?
I actually haven't heard Muslim extremists quote the Q'ran, either, except to spout something about killing the infidel or something. Maybe I"m not paying close enough attention....
Given I've been citing instances from the Bible, and tho' I'm buddhist, not atheist, I got the feeling you were talking to me, but no matter how many times I re-read it, I can't understand what you're saying.
Maybe the heat's getting to me...
ETA: I don't actually think of either book when someone does something violent, by the way. I think of the PEOPLE IN AUTHORITY in their religion who "interpret" the tenants of the religion who made them think what they're doing is "right".
Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off
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Quote:
Originally posted by HKCavalier:
Y'know, Mince, the devil for whom you're advocating is kind of a ninny. If indeed Islam has "adherents trying to spread it by the sword in 2010" then where are they, what is their impressive strategy against us and, most importantly, whom have they already conquered in 2010?
Seems to me, WE conquered largely secularist Iraq FOR THEM, far more effectively than they ever could--though I'm sure Iran will be happy to take our sloppy seconds. Your argument HINGES on this cockamamie notion of ISLAMINTERN, some kinda harebrained domino theory--well, where are the freakin' dominoes?
Meanwhile, we had a rather vocal Christian General conquering the evil Muslims until just a few months ago. Our "Christian nation" has conquered, or at least trashed and currently dominates two ostensibly Muslim nations--and counting. In this context, saying that "Islam is evil" is not just a bigoted opinion, it is a bigoted foreign policy and a stated justification for world domination--by us!
Maybe your statement can't be refuted because it's trivial--so narrowly focused as to be worthless except as a propagandist's talking point.
HKCavalier
B]
Thank you for recognizing my narrowness and great skill at propaganda. I feel you are due equal praise for your inability to argue coherently.
First, I dispute the characterization of the US as a Christian nation. I concede that the US recently played a major role in shit-canning two predominantly Muslim nations, but didn't that have more to do with oil than theology? Unless invaded Iraq for the express purpose of Christianization.
Moreover,if I do have an argument, it does not hinge on ISLAMINTERN, but rather the recognition that people who do violence in the name of Allah are, to some degree, organized. Is the Catholic church, or an equivalent Christian movement, currently advocating the violent overthrow of non-Christian governments? Do Methodists bomb unbelievers? Does Al Qaeda have a christian cognate? Obviously not. The point is that the scope and scale of extremism and vastly different, and yet we insist on equating them anyway.
In this, the comparison is so broad and fuzzy, so as to be utterly worthless. Sort of like your posts. ;)
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I'm curious if there is a way to argue the point of Islam being peaceful or violent or whatever, without the need to compare it to Christianity and how more, less, or equal they measure in peace and violence? Or is Christianity the standard the we measure all religions against?
'Course I'm not entirely sure what the argument was meant to be... so if this is supposed to be about Christians vs Muslims... then it's stupid. And I suppose you can disregard my post.
Religions do not commit atrocities, people do. Corrupted religious interpretation is merely a tool, kinda like political parties.
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