Real World Event Discussions

Stand with Arizona

POSTED BY: AURaptor
UPDATED: Sunday, May 16, 2010 21:28
VIEWED: 15979
PAGE 16 of 18

MOMCARP

Friday, May 14, 2010 3:35 PM

Hysteria is a good description. Both the knee jerk left and the card carrying Glen Birch Society right trot out the Nazi analogy as suits them.

Health reform was going to turn America into a Socialist (or Facist) state depending on who you talk to, and now a law to expel those who are in a sovereign state illegally will lead to mass violation of (non citizen's) civil rights. Sheesh.

BLUESUNCOMPANYMAN

Friday, May 14, 2010 5:20 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
How very libertarian of you.

I have always maintainted on this board that libertarian values must be tempered with some regulations.

Examples: On the subject of economic liberty, some regulations are needed to prevent unfettered abuse of markets (look to Enron for an example). I'm sure you'd agree.

On the subject of personal liberty, borders need to be monitored and regulated to prevent abuses of human rights (look to reciently murdered ranchers by illegal border crossers). On this I'm certain you do not agree.

BLUESUNCOMPANYMAN

Friday, May 14, 2010 5:25 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
By the way, sounds like you're all for boycotting Arizona. Thanks for your support!

BTW, I'm for "Buy"cotting AZ. Not that I'm going to make a special trip there to spend my money, but there are now some lists appearing on boycott websites that offer decient info on items to purchase. I also found it amusing how Arizona Tea and Arizona Jeans both issued press releases indicating that they are in NY and MI respectively.

So Kwik, are you going to boycott Indiana when we pass similar measures? What about TX and WY who are also making moves that direction? You going to end up boycotting 20 of 50 states before this is all over?

KWICKO

Friday, May 14, 2010 5:36 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by bluesuncompanyman:
Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
How very libertarian of you.

I have always maintainted on this board that libertarian values must be tempered with some regulations.

Examples: On the subject of economic liberty, some regulations are needed to prevent unfettered abuse of markets (look to Enron for an example). I'm sure you'd agree.

On the subject of personal liberty, borders need to be monitored and regulated to prevent abuses of human rights (look to reciently murdered ranchers by illegal border crossers). On this I'm certain you do not agree.

Thank you for clarifying my positions for me. Without you, I'd have no idea what I was for or against. You have such certainty, but you're certainly wrong.

Thing is, SB 1070 isn't about monitoring borders so much as it's about hassling people and demanding to see their papers, please. Which I notice you're fully in favor of, as long as it's not white people being asked for their papers.

You're all for "human rights", but it seems in your libertarian world, some humans have decidedly more rights than others.

Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

KWICKO

Friday, May 14, 2010 5:43 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by bluesuncompanyman:
Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
By the way, sounds like you're all for boycotting Arizona. Thanks for your support!

BTW, I'm for "Buy"cotting AZ. Not that I'm going to make a special trip there to spend my money, but there are now some lists appearing on boycott websites that offer decient info on items to purchase. I also found it amusing how Arizona Tea and Arizona Jeans both issued press releases indicating that they are in NY and MI respectively.

I found it amusing that they want to distance themselves as much as possible from a state with such racist policies and views. I guess they know that economic pressures brought to bear on the state of Arizona are likely to have blowback on thier brands, and want to get out ahead of the issue.

Quote:
So Kwik, are you going to boycott Indiana when we pass similar measures? What about TX and WY who are also making moves that direction? You going to end up boycotting 20 of 50 states before this is all over?

I already boycott Indiana. I've never bought a Jim Nabors album or a Winnebago, and Hoosier racing tires, while grippy, have too short a track life for my tastes. I prefer Kumho or Goodyear race tires for their lower price and longer life, as well as their more progressive breakaway characteristics on the edge of adhesion.

And yes, I'll be boycotting any state that stands with Arizona or follows suit. Are you going to boycott every state that DOESN'T go along with Arizona?

Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

KWICKO

Friday, May 14, 2010 5:48 PM

By the way, the GOP announced that they AREN'T going to be holding their 2012 convention in Arizona. At last count, the city of Phoenix has already lost over $90,000,000 in contracts and commitments, according to the mayor of the city.

Oh, and Austin (my home) announced yesterday that they'd passed a resolution to boycott Arizona in the wake of this fiasco.

So let's all vote with our wallets, and see how it all shakes out. I'll bet we can get it resolved before any court cases are even decided! My money is on Arizona backing down, especially once the federal government decides to call their bluff; if they want to make border control and immigration a states' rights issue, I'm sure the fed would be happy to pull all its federal agents, support, and funding from the state, and let them pick up the tab for watching their own borders.

NIKI2

Friday, May 14, 2010 6:12 PM

Jen, you’re entitled to your beliefs, but I disagree wholeheartedly with them

Quote:
believe that people of Hispanic descent who are legal citizens have absolutely nothing to worry about.

Runaway imaginations are turning blowing this out of proportion. Although the law was only recently signed, there are no reports of masses of hispanics being rounded up and put in death camps.

The actual fact is that people of Hispanic descent who are legal citizens have a LOT to worry about; if they can’t prove their citizenship immediately upon questioning, they will be JAILED and, once it is proven, fined and possibly jailed again for not carrying the proof with them. That is a FACT, it HAS HAPPENED, you haven’t bothered to read the facts I posted if you can deny that. Nobody has said a damned thing about death camps that I have read, so that’s irrelevant.

Strawman, I HAVE read the law, I have posted portions of it and what it allows and how what it allows can be interpreted. I have no “insane hysteria”, I merely recognize that this law is wrong, unconstitutional and harms what our country is based on, not to mention putting actual citizens in danger. Indiana has my sympathy but has just lost any respect I might have for it.

We have tens of thousands of immigrants in California, they don’t suck up to ANY teat (I’ve also posted about the question regarding whether illegal immigrants cost more in services than they contribute in entitlement taxes they will never benefit from). You won’t see us passing any such law; we may be Crazy Californians, but we understand reality, and the reality is that this is 100% wrong; we also appear to have more common sense and more understanding of our country.

Jen,

Quote:
Hysteria is a good description. Both the knee jerk left and the card carrying Glen Birch Society right trot out the Nazi analogy as suits them.

Health reform was going to turn America into a Socialist (or Facist) state depending on who you talk to, and now a law to expel those who are in a sovereign state illegally will lead to mass violation of (non citizen's) civil rights. Sheesh.

That is so “hysterically” funny it doesn’t need response; however, your beliefs about health reform are both knee jerk and hysteria if you think it will turn us fascist or socialist!

Bluesun: I’ve already put up facts and figures showing the crime rate has gone DOWN in Arizona, despite the “massive influx” of illegal immigrants. There are crimes committed every day in every state; pointing to one crime is fallacious. I happen to agree that “borders need to be monitored and regulated”, but this way of doing so IS an abuse of human rights, citizens’ and illegals’ both.

I, too, will be boycotting any state that passes a racist, anti-human-rights law such as this. And I’ve already begun voting my conscience by boycotting Arizona, not to mention just having bought a gallon jug of Arizona Tea. This law cannot stand, or here’s some equivalent hysteria for you: If it stands, we are on our way to a NAZI state!

"I'm just right. Kinda like the sun rising in the east and the world being round...its not a need its just the way it is." The Delusional "Hero", 3/1/10

KWICKO

Friday, May 14, 2010 6:21 PM

Quote:
...and now a law to expel those who are in a sovereign state illegally will lead to mass violation of (non citizen's) civil rights. Sheesh

So I have to ask: In your world, in your America, are there such things as "human rights" and "civil rights" that DON'T apply only to U.S. citizens, that are supposed to be universal for ALL people? Or are those the sole province of the "real" Americans, and non-Americans have no rights at all?

I could've sworn that there was some kind of document written and signed that mentioned something about "unalienable" rights, and kind of hinted that such rights didn't begin and end at the American border.

Maybe that was a dream...

Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

NIKI2

Friday, May 14, 2010 6:28 PM

No, Mike: Arizona is the nightmare!

"I'm just right. Kinda like the sun rising in the east and the world being round...its not a need its just the way it is." The Delusional "Hero", 3/1/10

PIZMOBEACH

Friday, May 14, 2010 9:29 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:

Jen,
Quote:
Hysteria is a good description. Both the knee jerk left and the card carrying Glen Birch Society right trot out the Nazi analogy as suits them.

Health reform was going to turn America into a Socialist (or Facist) state depending on who you talk to, and now a law to expel those who are in a sovereign state illegally will lead to mass violation of (non citizen's) civil rights. Sheesh.
That is so “hysterically” funny it doesn’t need response; however, your beliefs about health reform are both knee jerk and hysteria if you think it will turn us fascist or socialist!

I wish you would read that again Niki in the context that it was meant. Momcarp was saying how both sides say every issue will "Extreme Blank" this country, just as they did with health care (it'll turn us socialist or fascist), and now they are reacting in extremes to this law.

So you guys are going to boycott AZ even though as Jongs mentioned, and I agree, it'll probably hurt the low wage and illegals? Seriously, when money gets tight who do you think feels it first?

"Sorry you lost you job Jose, but I got your human rights covered. Don't know about you but I'll certainly sleep better."

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