Stand with Arizona
POSTED BY: AURaptor
UPDATED: Sunday, May 16, 2010 21:28
VIEWED: 15979
PAGE 12 of 18
My gawd, I go away for two days and look what happens! (Internet/phone problems...gawd I missed this place!)
I’m with Anthony (way back up most of you have forgot:Quote:
Remember the thing about “he who gives up freedom for security gets neither”? We’ve been on that road quite some time now...
My freedom is worth more to me than any 'security' this law claims to provide
I also agree with Quote:
The intelligent efforts have been aimed at the employers of illegal immigrants, and it is those efforts that are meeting success.
And with Serge, to a point. Borders can be open, but people pouring in has to be dealt with somehow. Just not how we’re doing it now, and CERTAINLY not the way Arizona wants to.
Pizmo, you’re being extremely disingenuous to say no particular race is being targeted. Why would a cop ever detain a blonde, blue-eyed yuppie and ask to see her papers? There’s no question that only ONE race is coming across the border illegally, ergo only people of that race will be asked to show papers. It doesn’t have to be said, it’s OBVIOUS.
But yes, absolutely Quote:
Now I know where Crappy got his “bomber was a registered Democrat”—straight out of Rushbaugh’s mouth. And he wasn’t. That man, well, something should be done about him; his audience takes everything out of his mouth as from the bible, and it’s SICK!
Time has "Person of the Year" - they should start having "Evil Shitbag of the Year" - Rush Limbaugh, not even close.
Good for you, Canttake, I‘m boycotting them too, and glad to hear SF is working on their part of it. This law is just wrong. All of you saying it’s not about race, and you can’t be detained without cause, etc., etc., are buying into a prefabricated line. IF you look Hispanic in AZ and a cop decides to hassle you, he does, end of story—walking the dog or whatever (how about if you’re walking your dog OFF LEASH? That’s a stoppable offense). They don’t NEED a “stoppable offense”; despite you arguing otherwise, here’s a truth: If cops don’t stop enough people to demand papers, THEY CAN BE SUED. That means a “quote” any way you choose to see it. Ergo, if cops stop people without “reasonable suspicion”, who’s gonna prove there wasn’t any, and do you think the person stopped has a dog’s chance in HELL of suing for unreasonable arrest??? It doesn’t take much brainpower to figure that one out...nitpicking “race” and “cause” and all that crap is just that: Crap.
Ah, I see you made the point before me. Right on. Ooops, and so did Anthony. Nice to see you both 
"I'm just right. Kinda like the sun rising in the east and the world being round...its not a need its just the way it is." The Delusional "Hero", 3/1/10
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As to crime, kidnapping, etc., I already posted figures showing crime in AZ has gone DOWN the past few years. Have to look it up again for those who didn’t get it the first time, obviously. So that argument is fallacious. And thank you muchly Frem, for that link to the previous discussion on this; there I cited articles regarding illegal aliens taking jobs, their effect on the economy, and more which relates to things that have been said here as well.
Ahh, Mike, Quote:
Wouldn’t work, and you know it. Remember The Authoritarians? Being able to hold two mutually-exclusive ideas at the same time, etc., etc.? It would never get through.
correlation being not equal to causation
Ahh, I see the kidnapping statistics are referring to DRUG CARTELS. Yes, well, of course all the drug cartels are Hispanic, there are no American Citizens involved on our side of the border, and of course we all know that ALL Hispanics belong to drug cartels, and that stopping all Hispanics (since they’re the only ones illegal and therefore the only ones involved with drug cartels and make up ALL the drug cartels) will solve the situation...yes indeedee. Excellent logic.
How about this one:Quote:
Wikipedia. If you want to use crime OVERALL, it appears New Mexico doesn’t even rank; but hey, focus on kidnappings, blame it on illegal immigrants, go for it!
A closer look at per capita homicide rates for each state from FBI Uniform Crime Reports Bureau of Justice Statistics indicate that Louisiana's per capita homicide rate has ranked 1st every single year from 1989 to 2008, which is 20 consecutive years.
Southern states had the highest overall crime rates. Crime can also be isolated to one particular part of a state. Lafayette, Louisiana, for instance had 6 murders per 100,000 people in 2004, while New Orleans, Louisiana, had 35 murders per 100,000 people.[46]
Almost all of the nation's wealthiest twenty states, which included northern mid-western and western states such as Wisconsin and California, had crime rates below the national average. In addition to having the country's lowest crime rates, New England states also had the country's highest median household income, while the Southern states have the lowest.
This contrasts starkly to some of the nation's poorer states such as Georgia, Florida or Louisiana. Louisiana had a crime rate 27% and a homicide rate 130.9% above the national average and ranked as the nation's fourth poorest state with a median household income 20% below the national median. While poorer states generally have higher crime rates, several states who fell below the national median for household income such as Maine and Kentucky also had crime rates below the national average, while some wealthier states such as Maryland and Hawaii had crime rates above the national average
If you want a comparison:
http://www.infoplease.com/us/statistics/crime-rate-state.html
As you can see, Arizona’s nowhere near the top. Again, go ahead and focus on kidnapping, it’s obviously the worst and most frequent crime ever committed... By the way, your numbers are outdated. As of Jan 2010:Quote:
Phoenix police anticipated a drop in kidnapping reports in 2009 compared with the previous year, though with 302 filed through November, the numbers haven't decreased significantly.
2008's total of 359 earned Phoenix the nickname "kidnapping capital" of the U.S.
Phoenix Home Invasion and Kidnapping Enforcement investigators say they have dismantled dozens of small gangs involved in kidnappings and home invasions, which led to a small drop in the overall numbers.
Last month, crime analysts corrected the 2008 total the department shared with Congress and other federal authorities earlier in the year. The number was 368 when politicians used it earlier this year when requesting federal stimulus money to combat border-related violence. Phoenix recently revised the number to 359.
A handful of kidnappings were either classified as other crimes or considered fals
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Momcarp,Quote:
25 years ago in CA, drywall companies started going out of business because their competitors were hiring cheap illegal labor. Then the concrete, tile, plumbing and carpentry trades were basically taken over by illegals.Quote:
Can you show numbers and facts to prove those statements? I live in CA, and I’ve not seen anything like that; I’ve dealt with concrete, tile, and plumbing people—all contractors who had to be licensed, all Caucasian. Where is this happening, do you know, and do you know how all these illegal contractors are getting licensed, please?
In the city next door to us, there are at least 200,000 "undocumented guests" throwing trash in the street, standing in the parking lot at Home Depot, parking decrepit old cars on their lawns, pushing 4 or 5 kids around in a shopping cart, etc.Quote:
That does happen to be wrong; I know someone who did just that.
An American can never become a Mexican citizen (please correct me if I'm wrong) own property, vote, or collect public assistance. Quote:
Damn, I missed that march! Bummer, it must have been pretty to see, Germans, French, Spanish, African, Hispanic, Russian, all marching together “demanding” citizenship! Wow, what a sight, sorry I missed it—why didn’t the news media cover it?
In America, citizens of other countries march through the streets by the thousands demanding American citizenship Quote:
Momcarp, that has nothing to do with the question at hand, which is the law Arizona has chosen to pass. There are answers to all those things; detaining a person because he “looks” illegal in some person’s opinion solves none of those thing; what you wrote comes from personal dislike, which appears to be all you have to offer. Trust me, you are not to the “left of center”, unless your stand on other issues is different than how you feel about this one.
Have you ever been in close proximity (as in a work situation) to an undocumented, non English speaking person for 8 hours? Or issued directions to workers in Spanish because you were the only person on a jobsite who spoke English?
Many Americans are egocentric in that they believe everyone should speak English; but the same can be said of "immigrants" who refuse to learn English.
On the other hand, I agree withQuote:
But being a “bleeding heart”, I disagree with the second statement; all I’m interested in regarding this issue is that a law has been passed which is wrong, which does not solve the problem, which I suspect was passed to push the fed to deal with the issue, and which puts any American citizen in danger of being pulled over and demanded to show their “papers”—which might well happen to me, given the way I dress and the fact that my skin is olive colored and I have brown hair and eyes. I wear sandals 365, I dress in long skirts or ragged shorts and T-shirts. I, or anyone who looks like me, could be accosted on suspicion; that is wrong, pure and simple. Whatever the answer is, this isn’t it.
The "righties" love to scream about illegals, while they hold open the back door for their illegal maid.
I also agree withQuote:
and agree it is at least one of the MOST gut-wrenching aspects of this mess...it makes me sick to think of it, tho’ I also think of all those fucked up IN Iraq and Afghanistan—the latter being closer to my heart—at the same time.
No one knows what the rehabilitation costs will be to try to "fix" untold thousands of soldiers who have been f'd up mentally and/or physically by the Iraq and Afghanistan wars. This is the most gut wrenching aspect of this f'd up mess.Quote:
Damn straight, DT, but don’t tell THEM that!!! No, wait, go ahead and tell t
if a democrat had come up with this, aerator or AURAptor as those who don't have auto spell check on call him, would be picking it apart as an exempt [sic] (did you mean “example”?) of the inherit racism of the democratic party dating back to the Jackson, instead of extolling the virtues of the bill, should there be any
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Just to back up the last thing I posted:Quote:
http://articles.sfgate.com/2009-07-27/news/17218849_1_judy-rabinovitz-
The son of a decorated Vietnam veteran, Hector Veloz is a U.S. citizen, but in 2007 immigration officials mistook him for an illegal immigrant and locked him in an Arizona prison for 13 months.
Veloz had to prove his citizenship from behind bars. An aunt helped him track down his father's birth certificate and his own, his parents' marriage certificate, his father's school, military and Social Security records.
After nine months, a judge determined that he was a citizen, but immigration authorities appealed the decision. He was detained for five more months before he found legal help and a judge ordered his case dropped.
immigration-laws-illegal-immigrant Quote:
http://www.nlada.org/DMS/Documents/1248787448.45/index.html
Hundreds of U.S. citizens have landed in the custody of Immigration and Customs Enforcement, struggling to prove they don't belong there.
Some prisoners who are legal U.S. residents have remained locked up for many months because they can't produce the documents to prove their identity, hampered by the fact that immigration detainees don't have constitutional protections such as the right to counsel.
Some who find themselves in the situation were born in other countries and acquired citizenship through a U.S.-born parent, or through a parent who became a naturalized citizen{I am one of those myself}. The American Civil Liberties Union Immigrants Rights Project says others have mental health problems and frequently they are poor.
"These are people who are the most vulnerable," said Judy Rabinovitz, the project's deputy director. "People are being locked up without bond hearings, often for long periods."
"The Constitution is the same that applies to U.S.-born citizens as to naturalized citizens," Sin Yen Ling of San Francisco's Asian Law Caucus told the Chronicle. "Detaining these folks is creating a third category of people with a different set of rights."
We want this to happen to even MORE people--American citizens?? It's gonna, this law guarantees it.
"I'm just right. Kinda like the sun rising in the east and the world being round...its not a need its just the way it is." The Delusional "Hero", 3/1/10
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niki...
what is the point of you babbling on ( yes, that's what you're doing ) about how " out dated " , by a whole year, the stats from the story I posted are ? Do you REALLY think that a slight drop ( by a few dozen ) in kidnappings when the number is so high ( over 300 - nearly 1 a day - is anything to even bring up and crow about ?
You overlooked also the fact that AZ was also # 1 in property crime as well, but then now I'm just focusing in on THAT statistic as well, right ? It's not as if property crime was the worst thing in the world, now is it ? ( until it's your stuff that's stolen or destroyed... )
You certainly do have the gift of padding your posts with lots of words while not really saying anything at all. You've convinced yourself that there really isn't that much crime caused by the illegals ( there is ) and that the people of AZ haven't had enough of it ( they have ) and all this is just one big over reaction from nervous white folks concerned that there are too many brown skinned folks wandering about.( it isn't )
And if a crime is committed by 1 illegal to another illegal, is it then NOT a crime ? Of course it is! You can't simply wave your hand and dismiss such acts didn't happen, or aren't a big deal, just because it wasn't against a U.S. citizen! That's absurd !! ( and racist, I might add ) If such high rates of crime are committed w/ in the U.S. borders, regardless of to whom, such activity will spread. At beat, innocent citizens will get caught up in the cross fire. This sort of activity can NOT go on unanswered.
This is a good law, and will hold up to a barrage of wasteful, pointless litigation the Left will throw its way. It mirrors the Federal law, and allows local police to more effectively do their job.
I await your predictable parade of pointless emoticons
Bones: "Don't 'rawr' her!"
Booth: "What? she'rawred' me first."
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That all you got, bitch ?
Demonstrably false ramblings intermixed with a bunch of flat out racism, sterotyping, and talking points from the mighty white right - and politicians from both sides who don't wanna solve this issue as much as use it as a wedge to sleaze their way into power, who will do all they can to *insure* it remains a problem (thus blocking any real solutions) because that's what keeps em in power, well, that and playing on the idiotic, ignorant, damnfool throwback racism of morons like you, who hate everyone and everything that isn't just like them.
Well shit, why not just make em wear colored stars, so we know... oh, wait, that didn't work out to well for the last assholes who tried it, and who were they again ?
Oh yeah, people JUST LIKE YOU, Rappy.
Shoe fits, wear it, ya prick.
Law and disorder
http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2010
/05/09/law_and_disorder/
"We have an illegal immigration problem today only because federal law makes legal immigration so costly and difficult. A concrete-and-barbed-wire wall along the border will not fix that problem, and neither will punitive sanctions on employers who hire illegal aliens. Meaningful immigration reform would focus instead on simply making it easier for low-skilled or unskilled workers to enter the country lawfully."
Quote:
The trouble with fighting for human freedom is that one spends most of one's time defending scoundrels. For it is against scoundrels that oppressive laws are first aimed, and oppression must be stopped at the beginning if it is to be stopped at all.
~ H. L. Mencken
-Frem
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Frem
Omit your childish, irrational profanity laced rants, and what's left isn't worth my time to bother with any sort of a response.
As for Limbaugh and calling Faisal a registered Democrat, he got it wrong. I can't find where he was the source of that piece of information, but he did repeat it.
As for Contessa Brewer, a bonafide news anchorette and reporter, she WAS the source of some blatantly idiotic and biased comments on the Times Square bomber, which only revealed what everyone already knew. The Left wants to demonize the Tea Party Americans more than they want report the truth about Militant Islamic terrorists.
Bones: "Don't 'rawr' her!"
Booth: "What? she'rawred' me first."
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Frem,
Godwin's law. If it weren't for that, I would have opened with the same line, because frankly, I csnt think of a better way to describe it. Lemme soft-pedal it for ya...
Okay, here's a counter measure to prevent racial discrimination.
The Friendly America Plan:
Picture of a shining sun with a smiley face and a sombrero... We can simply survey, as part of the census, everyone who *is* a citizen and is also Latino, and put them on a list of registered Latino Americans, only for use by government officials of course.
We also recognize as a practical matter that not all officers would check the list, so we can give each Latino a small patch to wear, if they choose, something that signify to potentially racist authorities that they were in fact a Latino. A sombrero, perhaps. Of course if some precincts had a perpetual problem with unidentified latino-Americans, they could require patch wearing, only for driving, and other public activities.
And yes, we recognize that this policy could encourage spill over from the mexican civil war, and yes, we recognize that the Mexican war is spill over from our war on drugs, by order of the president, and so we will provide "safe zones." Each safe zone will have it's own secure perimeter and security staff to help ensure safety, as well as ready made facilities to ensure the quality of life of the patriotic Americans within it.
Sure, we understand this program will cost money, which is why we've decided to introduce the safe zone jobs program. Like the popular southern Rent-a-Negro government program, we run here in the US, this will provide employment for safe zone residents, to help pay for the program over all. Wages can go to the cost of food, housing, security and administrative costs, as well as to shore up the security accounts we will set up for the workers, just to make sure that none of their prized possessions or family fortune be lost because of the war.
The war here refers to our ongoing war on drugs, or any armed conflict, or series of incidents connected with Latino populations. None of the more serious security measures will be mandatory unless there is a conflict of this kind. Decisions about what kind of work shall be involved, what kind of security, and what constitutes a latino standard of living will have to be determined at the time, based on the security needs of the situation, the labor needed at the time and the work conditions of same, and the standard of living of Latinos in arizona at the time which we can guarantee to be...
Low Low LOW!!!! Buy now kids. Get that latino worker for your home or business by buying in advance! Don't have an anti-Latino environment in your precinct? We can create one for you! Rent-a-Latino today! some restrictions apply, limited while supplies last. Offer not valid in Alaska, Hawaii or Puerto Rico.
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Rappy, at least it GOT a response, instead of the fucking vapor trail you leave when I start offering practical, feasible, logistically possible solutions.
If you wanna bitch about idiotic and biased comments along with demonisation, you're barking up the wrong tree anyway, since Contessa's just a talking head - and the SPLC is becoming more and more an unofficial policy arm, something which irks me prolly as much as it does you, but for the love of mercy don't go "helping" me kick their ass cause the last thing I need is some blind fanatic idiot like you handing them perfect strawmen like a damn assembly line.
You always seem to forget I hate the left wing authoritarian jackboots as much as I hate the right wing authoritarian jackboots you're always busy polishing with your tongue, but I gave you the only chance you were gonna get at workin with me to help stonewall thier bullshit, all six weeks worth of it, and the whole time you ranting and raving, foaming at the mouth howling about how McCain was gonna slam dunk the election, in hopes of denying the obvious reality your very blind partisan rabidness directly contributed to - in short, YOU assholes left more rational folk like me one hell of a mess, and what did you do right after that ?
Ran like a bitch, hid under a rock and likely bawled yourself to sleep, then came slithering back trying to pretend it didn't happen, pretend you don't share some blame by alienating the very folk you *needed* on your side to stop the Obamination Steamroller - because of your intolerant, racist, fanatic zealotry and denial of even crystal clear realities.
And even *IF* you were to assist me in sticking it to the SPLC, the minute things got any kind of rough, you'd be right back under your little rock, wouldn't you now ?
So exactly what use *DO* I have for you but as a verbal speedbag since you're gutless and clueless, and when actual profitable discussion rears it's head around you, you either try to smash it to bits with your purile hate of anything not identical to you, or the only part of you we see at that point is your ass leaving the thread so fast it'd leave a vaccuum if you actually had any substance.
Now see to your mouth, before you catch a fly ya damn fool - us PEOPLE are having a discussion here.
-Frem
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Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
Pizmo, you’re being extremely disingenuous to say no particular race is being targeted. Why would a cop ever detain a blonde, blue-eyed yuppie and ask to see her papers? There’s no question that only ONE race is coming across the border illegally, ergo only people of that race will be asked to show papers. It doesn’t have to be said, it’s OBVIOUS.
Niki, I wasn't being disingenuous at all, I don't think you read it the way I meant it. Damn straight it's obvious, I didn't think I would even have to write it the first time, but it seemed like people were so intent on saying racism that they went right past the obvious. I agree, to use your words, "There’s no question that only ONE race is coming across the border illegally." So, if you want to stop illegal immigration across that border whom do you check? That one race, right? If that's racism then by that logic we couldn't even try and enforce immigration with any country because it's racist.
It amazes me how 100+ posts and the conversation has not addressed the responsibility that the illegals have. Why are they getting a pass for their part in this cluster f*ck?
People argue it's not fair because all people should be treated the same... how about all people who try and immigrate to this country should go through the same legal process? Why's that not part of any discussion?
Anthony: Do you think you would have to worry about this law if there weren't close to half a million illegals in your state? We wouldn't be talking about this if their first act toward their new home wasn't an illegal one. They probably pay more to a coyote and risk a hell of a lot more than they would to file the papers.
Niki: I haven't read your stats yet, looking forward to it.
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