Stand with Arizona
POSTED BY: AURaptor
UPDATED: Sunday, May 16, 2010 21:28
VIEWED: 15979
PAGE 3 of 18
I live down there and can tell ya it's bad with the drug runners and coyotes. People out of the state don't know what really is going on. Kidnappings, murders, and illegals being left to die out in the desert. Arizona is making stand for the country.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Piz: The LAW is that you DO have to check peoples' papers when you're hiring. I don't know about you, but every job I've had, I've had to provide ID, tax info, AND my social security card and/or birth certificate.
I think what you're not seeing is that I'm asking that employers be responsible to check EVERYONE'S background and status when hiring.
And just to play devil's advocate - I now know exactly how to get into this country if I'm any kind of illegal or terrorist. Go through Arizona or New Mexico, and their porous borders. And since, as you've pointed out, only Hispanics are illegals, then I know that if I'm black, Asian, or caucasian, I'll have no problems at all, and nobody will ever find me or ask for my papers.
The problem when you apply any law only to ONE group is that you blind yourself to every group that doesn't fit. I thought Frem pointed that out pretty well with his burqa disguise that he used on his Muslim friend, who never saw him as any kind of threat, because women aren't even seen in some cultures.
Apply the same laws equally to everyone, and ask yourself how comfortable YOU would be with the kind of treatment you don't mind being done to someone else. That's all I've proposed. To read more into it is really reaching.
No, I don't ever remember showing my driver's license for a job. Tax documents, sure, eventually, but there aren't almost 500,000 illegals in Arizona alone because they can't figure that one out. My real world scenario, people are people, whatever race, and are susceptible to simple perceptions like "I wonder if he's legal?" I was hoping to illustrate that having those thoughts wasn't evil and even just simple cya.
As to the law, I'm not finding that it says to target a specific race, "stop Latinos." Here's what I find:
"It requires police officers, “when practicable,” to detain people they reasonably suspect are in the country without authorization and to verify their status with federal officials, unless doing so would hinder an investigation or emergency medical treatment.
It also makes it a state crime — a misdemeanor — to not carry immigration papers. In addition, it allows people to sue local government or agencies if they believe federal or state immigration law is not being enforced."
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/24/us/politics/24immig.html
Unless the Times got it wrong, targeting a specific race seems to be an assumption people are making, a racial assumption, which I find amusing. "It means Latinos Piz, don't be blind!" Like almost backwards racism or something.
Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com
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Hello,
If my father visits me from Florida, he can be detained by the police for not having identification proving his US citizenship.
If I walk my dog around the block and forget my wallet at home, I can be arrested by the police for not having identification proving my US citizenship.
Never before has it been an arrestable offense to walk around without papers proving citizenship.
This law is a step towards an America where you have to have government papers with you at all times just to have the right to share air.
No, thank you. My freedom is worth more to me than any 'security' this law claims to provide.
--Anthony
"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner
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Sign me up with the "open border thugs". The diversity and eager participation of the "huddled masses yearning to breathe free" is one of the best things about our nation. The day we end that is the day we're essentially closing up shop as a beacon of freedom (assuming that hasn't happened already).
SergeantX
"It's a cold and it's a broken hallelujah"
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Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Hello,
If my father visits me from Florida, he can be detained by the police for not having identification proving his US citizenship.
If I walk my dog around the block and forget my wallet at home, I can be arrested by the police for not having identification proving my US citizenship.
Never before has it been an arrestable offense to walk around without papers proving citizenship.
This law is a step towards an America where you have to have government papers with you at all times just to have the right to share air.
No, thank you. My freedom is worth more to me than any 'security' this law claims to provide.
--Anthony
"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner
Hi Anthony. I think you just described how effed and desperate the situation has become for Arizona citizens and "law makers." I won't pretend to know what's in their hearts and minds or what it's like to be an immigrant in this country, but of all the numbers I read in Niki's post the one that really surprised me was the "estimated 460,000 illegal immigrants in Arizona..." that's a number about 20 times larger than I would have guessed.
I also know that if there were a reported 460,000 illegal Canadians living in North Dakota I would feel the same way. And, Mike, I failed to answer you earlier because I did't know if you would have believed me, but fwiw, *I believe* if I lived in North Dakota under those circumstance (and it was deemed Canadians in my scenario meant white like me) I would understand if cops stopped me. If I get harassed by cops, then there would be a problem.
Also Anthony, I know what it's like to be concerned about a loved one. My wife is a non-white immigrant. She got careless once and let her green card expire. When she told me about it I freaked, not mad just holy sh*t - "those immigration people do not play - we have to get this taken care of - I don't know what they can do but deportation? I dunno, maybe." She had been living in this country so long as a "Permanent Resident" that I think she just took things for granted.
So we went through not only getting her US citizenship, but first getting her green card back. It's a long, slow process. The worst thing along the way besides the bureaucracy were the immigration "lawyers" who wanted to $help us get through the process smoothly. Some of them are decent, but a lot are just predatory. We were broke so we didn't really consider using one - there's plenty of free help anyway if you know where to look.
So I know the process first hand and that's why I wonder why 460,000 other immigrants can't respect the law and go through it too.
What else stands out to me from this issue is the continuing ass-hattery of the right and the Tea Partiers. Are they even Tea Partiers? Or just people using that brand for the publicity? I did check out AU's web site, they try and make it a right versus left issue, so they're using it just to get at Obama. Forget the issues, everything for them starts and ends with Obama. Time has "Person of the Year" - they should start having "Evil Shitbag of the Year" - Rush Limbaugh, not even close.
Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com
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Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Hello,
If my father visits me from Florida, he can be detained by the police for not having identification proving his US citizenship.
Answer- nope
If I walk my dog around the block and forget my wallet at home, I can be arrested by the police for not having identification proving my US citizenship.
Answer - nope
Never before has it been an arrestable offense to walk around without papers proving citizenship.
Reply - And it still isn't.
This law is a step towards an America where you have to have government papers with you at all times just to have the right to share air.
Reply- Nope. This law is a fair minded and logical response to the chaos the Fed. Gov't has allowed to happen by not doing something about illegal immigration
No, thank you. My freedom is worth more to me than any 'security' this law claims to provide.
--Anthony
Reply Most in AZ don't see it that way, as no one's freedom is being compromised here for security.
Bones: "Don't 'rawr' her!"
Booth: "What? she'rawred' me first."
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Quote:
Originally posted by whozit:Quote:Prove it, show me in the law where the word "race" is printed? You libs in your quest to be fair are going to get people hurt. I don't see you libs doing alot secure the boarders, if your not going to help, then boycott Arizona Ice Tea then SHUT THE FUCK UP!!!!
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Pizmo, the point is it's a race based policy. You don't have to be in favor of immigration, documented or otherwise to think it's wrong.
You go on a tirade about how Mexicans are the problem - then ask how it's connected to race.
You are amazingly stupid. Amazingly.
"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."
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Quote:
Originally posted by SergeantX:
Sign me up with the "open border thugs". The diversity and eager participation of the "huddled masses yearning to breathe free" is one of the best things about our nation. The day we end that is the day we're essentially closing up shop as a beacon of freedom (assuming that hasn't happened already).
SergeantX
"It's a cold and it's a broken hallelujah"
How is it that you don't comprehend or distinguish between LEGAL immigration and ILLEGAL ?
No one is remotely suggesting that we "end" any legal immigration. That's absurdity to the nth degree.
Get w/ the program, understand what's going on here and don't get stuck on stupid.
Bones: "Don't 'rawr' her!"
Booth: "What? she'rawred' me first."
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Hello,
AuRaptor-
You post a lot of 'Nope' but without any reasoning behind your nope.
If a Law Enforcement officer has any contact with me, he is authorized to check my citizenship status. If I can't prove it, he can detain me until it is proven.
So tell me how that's a 'Nope' please.
--Anthony
"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner
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Hello Pizmo,
I am not sanguine about forcing citizens to prove themselves at the will of policemen in order to accommodate efforts against non-citizens.
The intelligent efforts have been aimed at the employers of illegal immigrants, and it is those efforts that are meeting success.
--Anthony
"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner
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