Stand with Arizona
POSTED BY: AURaptor
UPDATED: Sunday, May 16, 2010 21:28
VIEWED: 15979
PAGE 8 of 18
"It's funny how you say you're not prepared to go batsh*t over - the - top over this new law, yet that's exactly what you do, in claiming it does anything like throwing out the 4th Amendment."
Hello,
He never said he wasn't prepared to go batsh*t over the new law. He said he wasn't prepared to go batsh*t over illegal immigration.
At least not batsh*t enough to create a law that might aid the police in circumventing our rights.
Something I think you and I disagree on, Auraptor, is our views of laws.
You view laws in the light of what they are supposed to do. I view laws in the light of what they can be made to do.
--Anthony
"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner
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Thank you for that, Anthony. You nailed it exactly.
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Anthony,
I know you try to be the reasonable guy, but there is a time to be unreasonable, and that was sort of my point. There isn't a middle ground that I can take on this issue. I don't even think it's an issue. I'm purposefully not responding to people who support racism here.
The position is a trick. I read this a while ago from someone who knew Henry Regnery, IIRC, it went something Like this: the absurd held firm will eventually persuade the sane to compromise with it, for something in between, hence the sane agree to be insane, and the truth will be compromised with falsehood.
Ergo, it's potentially the point of the entire argument.
So, taking my own position, that there is no problem, because I can't see a good reason why a mexican is not free to wander unannounced around the US as we are, as native americans are, just as the French are free to roam around Germany, which is far preferable than when this all happened with weapons. I suspect quite strongly that the powers that be really don't care about it either, but they do care that people are undocumented, because there are humans walking about the country off camera without their RFID chips etc. But yeah, I get that this is not a consensus opinion, still, that doesn't
Mean that those who simply oppose the existence of people of Latino extraction ace a point. They don't have a point, they have bigotry, and a new clever way to disguise it.
Here's another troublesome detail. The whole thing was introduced by Bush out of nowhere, it was not an issue that was being discussed politically outside of storefront.org, until suddenly George w bush suggests that its an issue. I was working third party at the time, and one of the parties out of nowhere started circulating this anti-Mexican garbage. It was on the high end of creepy, because i happened to know that no one involved was in the leqst bit racist, and one of them was Latino. What does this mean? Soon aftter that lou dobbs was hammering out this nonsense, I donator know if he'd taken the position before, but he took it with gusto. I think that the third party crowd had been promised ballot access if they acted as the propaganda farm for the new racism.
This was about the time i dropped out, but I stayed in touch enough to argue with them about the so called issue, which was hardly dressed up at all, it was really primitive, and came across as just blatant racism with nowhere to hide. You got the feeling that if you son much as ate mexican food you were part of the problem. Thing is, there was no problem. The civil war, started really by Bush/Obama, hadn't started yet, and the only real issue with immigration was slave labor, and the outraged were on the side of the mexicans.
So, the propaganda first had to convince you that there was a problem, and that we should all acknowledge it and then we can deal with this issue of what essentially was being promoted as mexican inferiority, So, sure, now when I see it with some more years of Refinement, it is very recognizable, and before anyone compromises with it, just make sure you know what your compromising with.
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I think you give Rap to much credit on politics. Every once in a while he posts an original idea, but most of his political thought seems to consist of talking points and unchecked support for what he assumes is his party's position. Rap should be listened to when it comes to the overuse of the word frack in Caprica.
I don't think arguing with a talking point is a decent use of time, my arguments with the GOP have yielded me nothing, they don't change their position, and they wont even call.
Rap, don't worry, they're not watching, you can come down off of the race wagon now, your check will still be deposited ;)
Seriously, man, it's bugging me. You don't want to take the hit for this one. Going down for your support of racism is no kind of way to go, just ask wulfie.
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Anthony,
The people of AZ have had enough of the lawlessness and crime caused by illegals. They're not fed up with immigration, or brown skinned people, but the problems caused by massive illegal immigration.
That's the sole issue here. The Federal Gov't isn't doing its job, so the states will have to take up the slack.
That's all that is going on here.
If you're not going batsh*t, over - the - top crazy on the issue of illegal immigration , then that's the problem. The citizens of AZ have resoundingly said they favor this law, as a means to control the problem they're faced with, and live with, every day.
Bones: "Don't 'rawr' her!"
Booth: "What? she'rawred' me first."
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Hello,
I am one of the citizens of Arizona, and I can tell you that it doesn't matter how bad a problem is, or how upset it makes people.
Laws that have a strong potential for abuse are not the answer.
--Anthony
"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner
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Quote:
So, taking my own position, that there is no problem, because I can't see a good reason why a mexican is not free to wander unannounced around the US as we are, as native americans are, just as the French are free to roam around Germany, which is far preferable than when this all happened with weapons. I suspect quite strongly that the powers that be really don't care about it either, but they do care that people are undocumented, because there are humans walking about the country off camera without their RFID chips etc.
I think there *IS* a problem; I just don't think it's anywhere near as drastic or earth-shattering as others seem to think it is. And to be honest, the powers that be don't think so, either. Which is why they don't actually want to DO ANYTHING about it; the right wants to get the likes of Rappy riled up, so he'll donate money to their cause, and the left wants to get he likes of me riled up, for the same reason.
Thing is, the right WANTS those illegals here, because they hire so many of them as a show of what greatness can be accomplished if you have no regulations at all, and the left wants them here because they're paying into a system they'll never collect from.
But what the right DOESN'T want to do is hold employers responsible for their own actions. They seem to think that asking an employer to verify eligibility for employment is an unwarranted intrusion by big government (when it's been a requirement at every job I've ever held), but for some reason they don't think stopping people on the street with no probable cause and no warrant is NOT an unwarranted intrusion into one's privacy - provided, of course, that those people are the right shade of brown.
Mike
"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions
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Dream, a small word of advice: Ditch the auto-complete and auto-correct features on your iPad. You're a better writer than your posts indicate, and it's all because your computer is trying to out-think you, which it's not effective at doing, and very clumsy in its attempts. It's one of my pet peeves with my iPod as well.
Small quibble. It's just that it's rendering some of your posts barely readable, which is a damned shame, because I know you, and that's not your style.
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Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Hello,
I am one of the citizens of Arizona, and I can tell you that it doesn't matter how bad a problem is, or how upset it makes people.
Laws that have a strong potential for abuse are not the answer.
--Anthony
The majority of your fellow citizens disagree with you. They disagree that it doesn't matter how bad the problem is, as well as this law having a " strong potential " for abuse.
Bones: "Don't 'rawr' her!"
Booth: "What? she'rawred' me first."
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ok then, if the Arizona law is just simply unacceptable.. whats the solution?
if its racist to want an orderly immigration policy... maybe the more important question should be as Americans, are we even entitled to enforce our borders and regulate immigration? can we secure the border, can we document people who are living and working here? if immigration is a 'human right'.. does this same principle apply to me, if say.. i want to pick up and move to Mexico(or anywhere else in the world)? it turns out they would be much less accepting then we have been tradionally. in other words.. i can go anywhere, for whatever reason, documented or not, and the people of that town or city or country have no say or jurisdiction? if this is the argument being made.. maybe someone should tell that to Mexico
if we wanted to go just by precedent, does anyone recall that in times past, it was common for a culture to literally create a walled fortress around a settlement? im not advocating this, but unless someone wants to argue that such an act is implicity racist.. i think the whole discrimination accusation falls flat
personally, i am all for unlimited, unrestricted travel!... in theory. but then again, we dont have a libertarian society where such a stance might actually be practical. no.. we live in an ever expanding social wellfare state. unfettered, inconsequential immigration sounds great.. until we get the bill for billions of dollars in tax payer subsidies going to foreign nationals. my family lived in s. California for awhile. you want to know what i think's unfair? my little sisters education being completely undermined and compromised by a classroom full of students whos first language was spanish. or spending 1 hr in the emergency room, with a busted knee, before even being seen, because illegals were using the place as a doctors office. and ya know.. i dont care if theyre Irish immigrants pouring in here... its the same result. lets not pretend that european immigrants were never a point of contention either.. this has nothing to do with 'brown people'
but notice, its America that is unjust for wanting to create a sustainable immigration policy... nevermind that we are generous to let anybody in here.
i never hear any criticism of the Mexican and S. American governments, that are so corrupt that people are fleeing these places by the millions. one thing being clearly demonstrated by these protests is that they arent just coming here to work. theyre here, demanding citizenship and equal access to social services. too bad all this energy wasnt commited to reforming the countries they have ruined(on account of their own political incompetence). the gall, to come here demanding things from Americans, when they have lacked the courage or organisation or resolve to reform the countries of their own births! if its not their responsibility, whos is it? why is there never any pressure placed on them? we're responsible for accepting all the worlds downtrodden.. makes me wonder where ill flee, when all the worlds refugees have come and overwhelmed the fabric of our society
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