FINALLY! Biden goes after Israel!!!
POSTED BY: Niki2
UPDATED: Wednesday, June 19, 2024 17:55
VIEWED: 9512
PAGE 4 of 11
Quote:
Originally posted by mincingbeast:
and the alternative is....what?
as i mentioned earlier, israel is far from the only regressive, backwards theocracy in the region that the united states shores up. its not even the only regressive, backwards theocracy in the region that is currently slaughtering and oppressing its own citizens. not even the only state that is a product of ham-fisted colonialism.
it is however, the only one where the dreaded JOOS are the ones being the assholes. hence, its the only one that is plugged into the longstanding narrative of JOO EVIL. and i firmly believe that the term "zionist", is a dodge, a way for someone to say "kike" without uttering the syllables.
screw israel--it is premised on bullshit theism and a sense of historical injury. but lets be honest: a lot of the hostility to israel is rooted as much in the "kosher" character of the state as it is in any sense of injustice.
My own hostility towards Israel is based on their actions, other countrys I feel the same way about as well... but none get the level of backing Israel receives... and that hypocrisy bother me even more...
The UN has had several resolutions against Israel, tried for others but were blocked by the US... solely because it was Israel ( in similar situations the US voted the opposite way )
This makes the concepts of the UN, international law, conflict resolution..... entirely worthless
I put more blame on the US for this than Israel, but they are both in this.
The only problem I have with the Jewish part of this mess, is the way it is used as a justification for the actions of both Israel and the US... bullshit
If say the Netherlands acted the same way towards its neighbors... they would have been rolled over long ago... why should it be any different?
Israel is the lynchpin of US foreign policy is the region...
Without that distraction.... all the other problems become easier to deal with.
I'd be happy if the US didn't prop anyone up, and folk could find their own way... Funny how some people ( many on this site ) hate government interference in their lives, but support their government interfering in the lives of folk in other countrys...
happy to discuss other countrys and situations with you Mince, we would probably even find room to agree... but Israel needs to be where the changes start.
Either you Are with the terrorists, or ... you Are with the terrorists
Life is like a jar of Jalapeño peppers.
What you do today, might Burn Your Ass Tomorrow"
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dont disagree with you mr. gino. israel is broken, and no damned good for the US. lets just not blame it all on jews, or even better, a world wide jewish conspiracy.
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Quote:
Originally posted by mincingbeast:
dont disagree with you mr. gino. israel is broken, and no damned good for the US. lets just not blame it all on jews, or even better, a world wide jewish conspiracy.
How about a world wide Israeli conspiracy ?
Another problem is that Israel has VERY effective lobby groups that provide donations, collect influence, sometimes even force the defeat of people who oppose them in other peoples governments.
This makes rational arguments difficult... and also would not be tolerated if say... Russia was acting in the same fashion.
It is not only Israel that is broken
But back to Israel, I posted a while back an opinion piece that suggested that internal politics inside Israel would not allow compromises necessary for any peace deal as long as there wasn't an outside influence they could point at and say " we have been pushed into this " Any political party trying to act on its own would lose power, but with the excuse of losing aid, or trade... they might get away with it.
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a worldwide israeli conspiracy may be, to some extent accurate. but it also provides covers for assholes who can cite the protocols of the elders of zion and simply substitute "israeli" for "jew." hence my discomfort.
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Nah, I was pointing out (being yanno, not born back then) that AT THE TIME, most nations had "such a hard-on for them" that they had no inclination to take in their refugees and pointing out that they were guilty of a lot of dirty business before WWII - not that they were *alone* in that, by far, but folks do tend to skip over and dance around the reasons that no nation would give them asylum, cause they were holding a grudge, some of it legit, some of it not...
Problem is, post WWII we're supposed to pretend that prior to that their behavior was absolutely angelic ?
C'mon folks, that's bullshit, and imma call it as such.
The reason *I* have such a nasty on for em politically is the simple fact that we're pouring money, resources, military equipment, into a country that does NOTHING BUT STAB US IN THE BACK EVERY CHANCE THEY GET - yeah, that'll tend to piss me off, yanno ?
I mean, I got a laundry list of shit they've pulled, most of which they admitted to, which IF ANY OTHER COUNTRY ON THE PLANET did to us, we'd be at war with, and here we are practically on our knees fellating them ?
Oh fuck that - and Bidens little talk is just blowing smoke, talk is cheap, and so far, that's all it's been, talk - which everyone on this dirtball prettymuch knows we won't hold to anyways.
As far as religious and racial intolerance, well, other than folks like PN and whatnot, it's not that folks ain't intolerant against em, although these days it seems calling them on their *actual behavior* gets labelled intolerance... it's that folks tend to hate on arabs and muslims even more, and there's plenty of folk, Rappy as a case in point, who support Israel for the sole purpose of their wholesale slaughter of such, believe me Niki, the words "two for one special" were so over the top they made *ME* wanna puke, be glad you weren't here for that discussion.
Nor was I in any way advocating nuclear weapons, I was pointing out that the folk currently in charge of that country are SO insane that they would, absolutely, start WWIII if they could, rather than not be in control, they're really that far gone, and it gives me the willies, and I suspect that's one reason folks are reluctant to call them out, cause they're friggin psychotic.
If I thought anything less would get the idea across, believe me, I would not have made that tomahawk missle suggestion, but in all honesty, I don't think anything less would be effective, cause if you *did* try to boycott them, you risk winding up thrown in the clink next to Zundel for "anti-semetism", or whatever you wanna call it, but basically even calling them on their bullshit is damn near illegal, and that is insane.
And yeah, we're not exactly paragons of moral virtue neither, cause Hitlers solution to his jewish problem was indeed cribbed straight off our solution to the native american problem, not to mention we were rounding up japanese-americans and stuffin em into camps ourselves - I make no bones about calling our misdeeds neither, difference is I get seriously pissy about being forced at gunpoint to finance someone elses.
And while it might seem I am being unusually harsh, look at the laundry list of crap they've pulled since 1946 and consider just how hard it's ever gonna be for anyone to trust them as a nation and religious/political entity ever again, I wasn't kiddin when I used the exact phrase "Chronic Backstabbing Disorder" - we're supposed to be their ally and yet...
Comverse Infosystems, AMDOCS, Zonealarm fiasco, Lavon Affair, Aipac, USS Liberty, "Art students", "Moving companies" and a whole lot of suspicious characters on forged passports checking out our infrastructure, as of late "locksmiths" too, which like the moving companies have engaged in direct criminal behavior and scammery as well as espionage - and we just sit there and take it and take it and smile and beg for more while handing them billions in cash and military equipment ?
Oh yes, I am very, very angry about that.
The moment that did it for me was quite a while back, reading about an incident whe
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ahem. i repeat, Mr Frem: "due to... well, lets cut the bullshit, no one else wanted them because despite the Muslim tolerance of them on occasion, they acted a hell of a lot like this even BACK THEN too, which is why ole Adolf found it so easy to rile folk up against em - doesn't justify it, but fuck, man, someone has to say it, they *DO* shit like this, they always have, which is also what set the Christians to persecuting them in the first place."
this is not a statement about the current misdeeds of israel, which i would generally agre with you on. this is a statement justifying the historical persecution of the jews because "they do shit like this" and always have. nobody is claiming the jews are angels, but it seems that you come pretty close to claiming the reverse. i dunno, for some reason i expected more from you.
EDIT:
"Lemme throw this last bit in, how would you feel if we had been directly financially and militarily supporting genocide in Rwanda while sucking up to the folks committing it in every way possible"
I imagine I'd be upset, but would like to think that I wouldn't segue into some sort of argument that "Well, Africans have always acted like this, and always will, and somebody has to say it, but thats why racism exists."
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Despite the liberatorS' desires to help the surviving European Jews after WWII, I believe when you look at the 65 years of "recent" history since then, the whole Israel "statehood" thing was a gigantic mistake.
But the quest for statehood existed long before WW2 and the holocaust. It's a misnomer to think that statehood was simply a means of 'pay back' for the atrocities levied upon the Jewish people.
Summer Glau can simply walk into Mordor
Bones: "Don't 'rawr' her!"
Booth: "What? she'rawred' me first."
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Quote:
Originally posted by mincingbeast:
ahem. i repeat, Mr Frem: "due to... well, lets cut the bullshit, no one else wanted them because despite the Muslim tolerance of them on occasion, they acted a hell of a lot like this even BACK THEN too, which is why ole Adolf found it so easy to rile folk up against em - doesn't justify it, but fuck, man, someone has to say it, they *DO* shit like this, they always have, which is also what set the Christians to persecuting them in the first place."
this is not a statement about the current misdeeds of israel, which i would generally agre with you on. this is a statement justifying the historical persecution of the jews because "they do shit like this" and always have. nobody is claiming the jews are angels, but it seems that you come pretty close to claiming the reverse. i dunno, for some reason i expected more from you.
EDIT:
"Lemme throw this last bit in, how would you feel if we had been directly financially and militarily supporting genocide in Rwanda while sucking up to the folks committing it in every way possible"
I imagine I'd be upset, but would like to think that I wouldn't segue into some sort of argument that "Well, Africans have always acted like this, and always will, and somebody has to say it, but thats why racism exists."
But to some degree your last statement does have some truth...
Tribal warfare in many parts of Africa historically hits close to genocide... and that hate of the other group has stayed with the culture... or the Balkans as another example
Historically in many places people have lashed out at the Jewish for various reasons and that left the same sort of cultural imperative... perhaps some deserved and some not
Not saying it is good or right... but if we don't acknowledge that it exists we would be in error
Unfortunately I would have to point out the actions of Israel generates the current, largest source of anti semitic feeling... even on a global scale. As a Jewish guy I used to work with said once... " Those fuckers are giving us all a black eye "
He even quit his synagogue after a disagreement over their raising funds to send to Israel...
A present day Adolf could easily use such feelings to justify a new crackdown... right ?
I think that is why many Jewish groups try to separate themselves from Israel in the public mind
and yet another reason to end this mess once and for all...
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Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Despite the liberatorS' desires to help the surviving European Jews after WWII, I believe when you look at the 65 years of "recent" history since then, the whole Israel "statehood" thing was a gigantic mistake.
But the quest for statehood existed long before WW2 and the holocaust. It's a misnomer to think that statehood was simply a means of 'pay back' for the atrocities levied upon the Jewish people.
Summer Glau can simply walk into Mordor
Bones: "Don't 'rawr' her!"
Booth: "What? she'rawred' me first."
They might have wanted it, but they never would have gotten it without... therefore it was " pay back "
hell without the post WW2 guilt, they would have been hunted down as terrorists... which they were
Life is like a jar of Jalapeño peppers.
What you do today, might Burn Your Ass Tomorrow"
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Quote:
Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:
They might have wanted it, but they never would have gotten it without... therefore it was " pay back "
hell without the post WW2 guilt, they would have been hunted down as terrorists... which they were
I use to think as you. I guess it's all in how you're taught history.
The Brits weren't going to hold onto the land forever.
It was more a fire sale / give away than " pay back ". 10's of 1000's of Jews had been immigrating into the area long before 1948.
Summer Glau can simply walk into Mordor
Bones: "Don't 'rawr' her!"
Booth: "What? she'rawred' me first."
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