450 posts IS a worse crime than wanting to kill us .
POSTED BY: AURaptor
UPDATED: Friday, May 22, 2009 14:59
VIEWED: 29463
PAGE 16 of 46
Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
So, to specifically address rappys' point: You're setting the bar very low if the only thing you can claim is that we're "not as bad as them."
Actually...thats kinda where the bar needs to be. Torturing a terrorist for information is NOT as bad as causing or attempting to cause the death of innocent people.
Seems our options include being better then they are...or being worse with death as the deciding factor. If avoiding death requires torture...we torture and are still better then them. The day may come when we have to be worse then them...and we all know that we can be worse then them very easily. We have vast fields and storehouses of 'worse' we could unleash at a moments notice but for our compassion and mercy.
A little water and discomfort is a mild price to pay for the continued existance of an entire people. If we were them...they would cease to exist in the fire of American fury. But we're not them...so instead the get water and mercy. Such is life.
H
"Hero. I have come to respect you"- Chrisisall, 2009.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:First of all, you weren’t talking to me. Secondly, you’ve not made a post to me that wasn't trolling, which has been your reputation lately. Would you like to deflect that argument to my spelling again? You’ve already demonstrated to me how little your interested in discussion, so you shouldn’t be surprised if people seek out other members of the board when they're interested in discussion.
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Finn, if you want to have a REAL discussion on the issue, why don't you answer the question I posed to Rappy?
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:So what are you saying here, that we saved the Human race because of waterboarding...?
Originally posted by Hero:
A little water and discomfort is a mild price to pay for the continued existance of an entire people.
I don't know, it seems unlikely.
The laughing Chrisisall
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:AU has been mean to me, btw. Can I get a hug?
Originally posted by Kwicko:
the way you cry about it
The adolescent Chrisisall
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:Quote:First of all, you weren’t talking to me. Secondly, you’ve not made a post to me that wasn't trolling, which has been your reputation lately. Would you like to deflect that argument to my spelling again? You’ve already demonstrated to me how little your interested in discussion, so you shouldn’t be surprised if people seek out other members of the board when they're interested in discussion.
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Finn, if you want to have a REAL discussion on the issue, why don't you answer the question I posed to Rappy?
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
So now you're trolling me then, eh? What in this post of yours is NOT trollish?
BTW, you misused "your" when you probably meant "you're". Hey, you asked...
Mike
Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:And now you know why I'm not interested, next time don't act so disappointed.
Originally posted by Kwicko:
So now you're trolling me then, eh? What in this post of yours is NOT trollish?
BTW, you misused "your" when you probably meant "you're". Hey, you asked...
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:You just couldn't resist...
Originally posted by Kwicko:
BTW, you misused "your" when you probably meant "you're".
The laughing Chrisisall
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:Quote:And now you know why I'm not interested, next time don't act so disappointed.
Originally posted by Kwicko:
So now you're trolling me then, eh? What in this post of yours is NOT trollish?
BTW, you misused "your" when you probably meant "you're". Hey, you asked...
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
Well, now I know that you're a troll, but I already knew that. And now I know that you're a coward, but I knew that already, too. And now I know that you're an idiot, but again that's nothing I didn't already know.
So I've learned nothing knew from this "discussion" with you. Guess that's proof that you are indeed a troll! Thanks for proving me right, yet again.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:Quote:You just couldn't resist...
Originally posted by Kwicko:
BTW, you misused "your" when you probably meant "you're".
The laughing Chrisisall
Nope, I really couldn't.
He just makes it too easy.
Mike
Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Finn, you said several things which I needed clarified. I specifically quoted them and you have not addressed them.
You said:
"I suspect that there is a set of circumstances in which even the hardest of resolve will crack."
I asked:
"Basically Finn, you're willing to "crack" people, and in the context that you expressed... by any mean necessary. Boiling oil, if need be. Right?... Where do YOU draw the line?"
Apparently you weren't very clear because AgentR asked the same question:
"And what are those circumstances?"
You replied indirectly: "Coercion is most effective when it is used to cause exhaustion, I suspect." but also followed it with "It seems to me that inflicting injury is more likely to result in shock then diminished resolve. I think I've been pretty clear in drawing a line between extracting confessions and interrogation."
Then you said that the difference was a matter of "intent". The implication of all of that is proper intent (intent to get the truth) will lead to proper action (no injury) because of PRACTICAL limitations.
However, those practical limitations seem to me to be very porous. I can think of all kinds of ways in which a person will not necessarily be injured, or can be revived (which, BTW they do during waterboarding)... no matter WHAT the "intent" of the interrogator.
So I feel that my question STILL really hasn't been answered. You talk about intent, and practical limitations (which IMHO don't exist), and circumstances which will crack to most hardened resolve, and non-injurious techniques (which BTW can include electric shock and sleep depreviation) and I'm STILL left with the same question, which I believe is a fair one: IS THERE A LIMIT BEYOND WHICH YOU WILL NOT GO, FOR MORAL REASONS?
And the answer is: I still don't know, and I don't think anybody does.
---------------------------------
They pit us like dogs against each other and rake it in. And I'll bet they laugh when they hear dupes like you defend the system that fucks you over and rewards them so nicely! But the one thing they'll stamp out in horror as if it were the spark of conflagration is any whiff of socialism. That should tell you something.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME