450 posts IS a worse crime than wanting to kill us .
POSTED BY: AURaptor
UPDATED: Friday, May 22, 2009 14:59
VIEWED: 29463
PAGE 12 of 46
Quote:
Originally posted by Rappy:
...the Left is hoping and praying ( well, not literally, as they don't really buy into God™)...
Gee, I wasn't aware that YOU bought into the whole "god" fiasco either. But you seem perfectly content to try to belittle others who don't.
Curious.
Mike
Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
The difference is that coercive interrogation techniques are used with the intent of finding information. Witch trials and inquisitions were used with the intent of extracting confessing and then execution.
"Finding information"... regardless of whether it's actionable, reliable, or even truthful.
Seems waterboarding is used as much for "extracting confessing" as much as it is for anything else.
Mike
Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
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Quote:
Posted by Finn:
The life of the suspected witch or infidel was forfeit as soon as the trial started.
And the life of the suspected terrorist was forfeit as soon as the torture started. Maybe they aren't being killed by torture, maybe they aren't being executed - but they ARE still being held, with no charges, no trials, no representation, and no hope of ever getting out. Their lives are forfeit the second they're picked up. Don't pretend otherwise.
Mike
Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
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Quote:
More empty, gutless lies and rhetoric from the likes of you. It is patently absurd for anyone to believe that skin color, hair thickness , or any way one defines "race" can be shown to hold any level of superiority. Race is bullshit, and any moron who clings to such superficial guides to gauge another person is nothing but a simplistic , useful idiot. I get so damn tired of seeing the RACIST lie perpetuated by the so called enlightened Left.
Huh. Rap, I'm in the centre, and I get damn tired of both the RACIST lie used against the right and equally the HATE-AMERICA lie perpetuated by the right against the left...
Heads should roll
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Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:Quote:Predictably deflective.
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
Then perhaps it’s something you need to think about for a while.
The laughing Chrisisall
And further proof that, like AuRaptor, Finn has no answers.
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Quote:
Confessed by Finn:
I’m not an interrogator, so I don’t know how detailed I can explain the process. If you query me on the details of basket weaving you’ll get just as vague a response.
In other words, you don't know what the fuck you're talking about any more than the rest of us, whom you accuse of not knowing what we're talking about.
There - at least now we know how much weight to give your opinions, your imaginary scenarios that you suspect might have something to do with the possibility of lives being involved, one way or another... and the amount of weight we should give your opinions (since you haven't cited a single fact in all of this) is... NONE!
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20090422/ts_alt_afp/usattacksmilitaryjusti
cetortureblair_20090422192111
Quote:
"The bottom line is these techniques have hurt our image around the world, the damage they have done to our interests far outweighed whatever benefit they gave us and they are not essential to our national security,"- Retired admiral Dennis Blair
Okay, so THAT says that no 9-11 style terrorist attacks were foiled using torture.
That makes AU & Finn look like the bags of hot air they're acting like here.
The laughing Chrisisall
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DRAT! Yes, I know... here I am with those terrible questions again! Using the "Gestapo" tactic of asking over and over again, with the intent at getting at the truth! But I'd still like some help Finn. 'Cause I'm not sure I'm getting your distinction. You said
Quote:You also said
The difference lies in the intent.
Quote:So maybe I'm taking things out of context, but one statement seems to imply that the only difference between interrogation and extracting a confession is intent, and the other statement seems to imply that there is no length to which you wouldn't imagine going during an interrogation. Now, somewhere in the middle you DID say that causing injury is more likely to cause shock than produce information but... that kind of issue can so easily be gotten around with the right medical help. And electric shock doesn't even cause injury. So IMHO a practical barrier to applying torture during interrogation doesn't exist. Let me quote myself, again, and see if I've got it right:
I suspect that there is a set of circumstances in which even the hardest of resolve will crack.
Quote:So is there a point which you would not go for moral reasons during an interrogation?
"But as I gather from your statements- It all goes back to INTENT. "Interrogation" is anything that you do to break a person with the intent of getting the truth. That COULD include electric shock, or boiling oil, if in the eyes of the interrogator it was necessary or helpful. The one thing it COULDN'T include is death, because at that point no more information is available. (Unless of course the interrogator thought that all useful information had been extracted and simply didn't want the victim to go squealing to the press later.) Whereas "extracting a confession" is anything you can do to break a person with the INTENT of getting them to tell you what you want to hear!"
So it has nothing to do with the "means"... which could include anything that the interrogator might think is useful ... and everything to do with the ends? What I gather from your statements is that you wouldn't rule out any technique on moral grounds but simply on whether a particular technique was effective in obtaining the truth? I know that you try to draw a correlation between what is moral and what is effective, but that correlation simply doesn't hold up.
---------------------------------
It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine.
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Quote:
DRAT! Yes, I know... here I am with those terrible questions again! Using the "Gestapo" tactic of asking over and over again, with the intent at getting at the truth!
Some might even say you're TORTURING him with these questions!
Mike
Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
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Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20090422/ts_alt_afp/usattacksmilitaryjusti
cetortureblair_20090422192111Quote:
"The bottom line is these techniques have hurt our image around the world, the damage they have done to our interests far outweighed whatever benefit they gave us and they are not essential to our national security,"- Retired admiral Dennis Blair
Okay, so THAT says that no 9-11 style terrorist attacks were foiled using torture.
That makes AU & Finn look like the bags of hot air they're acting like here.
The laughing Chrisisall
Not to mention how it makes Geezer and Hero look; they were the ones pointing to that article as their justification for why they want to torture folks!
Mike
Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
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