450 posts IS a worse crime than wanting to kill us .
POSTED BY: AURaptor
UPDATED: Friday, May 22, 2009 14:59
VIEWED: 29463
PAGE 15 of 46
Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Geezer, do you believe in punishment as a deterrent to further crime?
---------------------------------
It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine.
Good question.
So how 'bout it, Geez? Are you against punishing criminals for their actions in ALL cases, or only in cases where said criminal is a Republican?
Mike
Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:I appreciate the opportunity to have a real discussion on the issue. And there are many others were tried to participate, for which I am grateful, but sometimes it’s just impossible with the likes of kwicko’s trolling and signym Gestapo debating tactics.
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Hello Everyone,
First of all, I'd like to wag my finger at some of you. Finn and I were managing a productive exchange of ideas last night, and I woke up to see a lot of exchanged insults. I thought to myself, "God Damn, why can't these assholes just have a fucking discussion for a change?!" Which, of course, made me as guilty of name calling as everyone else.
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
AgentRQuote:
And where and how does verification come into this?
There's the rub, apparently, AgentR - from all I've been able to determine, it don't.
I find it very telling and very disconcerting that you took the time to say this, but none of the torture-advocates have taken the time to refute it or answer my question.
It's not that I don't suspect you're right.. I'm just confused that they're not even making an effort.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:If I were the only one asking for clarification, then I'd think I might be stupid or something. But I'm not the only one, so the problem must be at your end. I've asked several questions which I think get to the heart of where I don't understand you. One of my questions was:
Signym Gestapo debating tactics.
Is there any length to which you would not go for MORAL purposes during an interrogation?
Why do you have such difficulty with this question? It seems a simple yes or no would suffice, along with perhaps an explanation as to why or why not, or a reason for why you might stop at one point but not another. Or, you could tell me that the question was misdirected, that your REAL rationale was more along the lines of cost/benefit: that it would take a combination of circumstances in which you would be willing to go to ANY length during an interrogation... a direct chain of evidence of imminent destruction leading to the exact person being interrogated (much like in "24"). I would imagine that this could be the basis for a very fruitful discussion.
But you seem to have great difficulty answering what seem to me to be rather simple questions, which makes me wonder if you really want to be understood at all.
---------------------------------
They pit us like dogs against each other and rake it in. And I'll bet they laugh when they hear dupes like you defend the system that fucks you over and rewards them so nicely! But the one thing they'll stamp out in horror as if it were the spark of conflagration is any whiff of socialism. That should tell you something.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Been biting my toungue with you, Finn. Still not care to step forward? I promise not to bite anything- except my tongue of course!
---------------------------------
They pit us like dogs against each other and rake it in. And I'll bet they laugh when they hear dupes like you defend the system that fucks you over and rewards them so nicely! But the one thing they'll stamp out in horror as if it were the spark of conflagration is any whiff of socialism. That should tell you something.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:He does have a knack for thinking he's clarified himself when he hasn't, at times.
Originally posted by SignyM:
If I were the only one asking for clarification, then I'd think I might be stupid or something. But I'm not the only one
The laughing Chrisisall
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:If he felt it was important to, yes, they all do. More likely he just wants to be perceived as knowing what he's talking about, which, of course, most peeps in that position do not.
Originally posted by Geezer:
So "President Obama’s national intelligence director" would lie about it?
The laughing Chrisisall
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:Those people who asked for clarification and generally wanted my response received it. I don’t think you can make a very convincing case that you really wanted any clarification. What you wanted was to bully and dehumanize people you don’t agree with, hense the Gestapo Debating tactic. As I told you before, you use manipulative questions, not to find understanding but to attempt to trap and corner people. Then you assign the most egregious and despicable opinion you can come up with to that person and then demand them to defend themselves.
Originally posted by SignyM:Quote:If I were the only one asking for clarification, then I'd think I might be stupid or something. But I'm not the only one, so the problem must be at your end. I've asked several questions which I think get to the heart of where I don't understand you. One of my questions was:
Signym Gestapo debating tactics.
Let’s take a look at that, shall we?
Signym Gestapo restating of my opinion:
“Basically Finn, you're willing to "crack" people, and in the context that you expressed... by any mean necessary. Boiling oil, if need be. Electric shock. Pulling fingernails. Right? As long as doctors are there to control the infection, revive if necessary, keep the person alive and available for further questioning. Because it's all about "effective interrogation", right?”
(1) “by any mean(sic) necessary” I never said or implied this at any point. So why accuse me of it?
(2) Boiling Oil? The only time I mentioned boiling oil was to distinguish what I was talking about from the kind of barbaric measures taken during the Middle Ages? So you’d have to be stupid or intentionally misrepresenting me to say this is what I meant.
(3) Electric Shock, pulling fingernails. In fact what I did say was to limit interrogation to practices that do not result in injury to the suspect. So once again, you have to be intentionally misrepresenting me to accuse me of this.
(4) Reviving the suspect following Signym idea of torture? This is really sick. Something that could only come from very twisted mind. But this is all Signym. There is no comment I’ve ever made, probably in my life, much less in this thread that could even be misconstrued as meaning this. Yet Signym came up with it, all by herself, and accused me of it.
Now Signym is going to cry crocodile tears because I won’t respond, but why should I defend myself from accusations of statements I clearly never made. Signym wants to dehumanize and demonize people she doesn’t agree with, in much the same way that the Gestapo in Nazi Germany dehumanized and demonized people they didn’t agree with. Signym is welcome to her hatreds, but I’m not going to validate this kind of crap.
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
AgentR ?
I find it very telling that none of em even addresses my arguments despite the fact that I know something about this kinda thing and happened to provide hard evidence of our own admissions we did in fact torture folks to death.
They just go on arguing with everyone else in the thread and dance around ever having to own up to the facts of the matter - which is rather typical when authoritarian types run up against something that refutes their entire worldview.
It's like it don't even exist, because they cannot fit it into the artificial reality they have constructed for themselves.
-Frem
It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
appreciate the opportunity to have a real discussion on the issue. And there are many others were tried to participate, for which I am grateful, but sometimes it’s just impossible with the likes of kwicko’s trolling and signym Gestapo debating tactics.
Finn, if you want to have a REAL discussion on the issue, why don't you answer the question I posed to Rappy? Seems both of you are too cowardly to address that thorny issue, the way you've both run away from it at light speed.
You say it's "trolling", but it's a real possibility that we'll have to face that exact scenario.
Go back to your own trolling.
As for Signy's "gestapo tactics" - you act like you're being tortured or something, the way you cry about it. What's the matter, you can't handle a little light questioning about your "beliefs"?
Mike
Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME