The Assault Weapons Ban
POSTED BY: AnthonyT
UPDATED: Friday, December 5, 2008 17:22
VIEWED: 10930
PAGE 8 of 17
Quote:
The image of a peaceful, responsible, competent gun owner isn't promoted a lot.
I'm a victim of this association myself.
It took me a while to recognize this instant association as wrong, and it always takes work to move beyond it when thinking about subjects like this.
Once I did, my opinions about gun control changed, as well.
And this bugs me quite a bit - the whole "the way they're portrayed means it's okay to think that way about guns and people who like them."
Tell ya what: try applying that logic to black people, and see where that gets you. Sure, they're portrayed a certain way in the media, so does that make it okay to be bigoted against them?
Just curious. It's interesting to watch people who supposedly have no prejudices actually reveal what theirs are. And we ALL have prejudices of some sort or another. I guess for some, it's just prejudice against gun owners that's okay and acceptable...
Mike
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"They want your guns because they've been told that if you have a gun, you'll do something crazy with it, maybe even kill them.
They are afraid of you."
Many people are afraid of people with guns - for several good reasons: drive-bys, car-jackings, mart-robberies ...
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Silence is consent.
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Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Hello,
Now, for some reason I can't understand, you sound as though you begrudge me these simple pleasures. I can't fathom why.
It's not that I begrudge you your habits. Other than the nap in nowhere (I like that idea), nothing you said sounds remotely interesting to me. You like it, cool. But I don't see how because you like to do this - an assault weapon is NEEDED. If you enjoy it - hey, that's none of my concern. But I'm not going to care if you have to step down to a smaller weapon, either.
And I guess, from your description, you'd fall under my definition of "gun nut". Don't get me wrong - I don't mean that as an insult. I have friends who I would call gun nuts, as well. But the scenario you just presented doesn't have anything to do with the constitution, or defense, as was the topic at hand. It was strictly recreational - and as I said before, there are far more important things to worry about than your fun.
"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."
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It is hard to agree with 100% of people 100% of the time, especially here in RWED. But I love the way everyone has stated their views and opinion in this thread.
I understand the fear of people without knowledge and experience with weapons, violence, de-escalation, and downright fear of what some people are willing to do to others for their own personal gain and pleasure. I commend any man or woman who feels whole heartedly that they do not need weapons, only the words and spirit of peace and goodwill between men.
Honestly, one of my wishes for this life is to be able to transcend into a being of that manner. But for now I must settle with what I have. That is the knowledge and experience that unless we defend ourselves we will be pacified and lulled into a sense of false security. Humans are not evolved enough to accept that peace for ourselves yet. Our bodies still cling to more primal and visceral conditioning. I am lucky to still be relativey young, healthy, conditioned for threats and posative response, and happen to be fairly large in built and strength. Regardless I still have to agree with being in my home or with my family. One or two threats can be talked out, then handled physically as a last resort. I'd rather not shoot someone. It's not a ruined day or just a bunch of paperwork. There are lingering effects that never go away. But the safety of my loved ones far outweighs the life of one who wishes to do them harm. This stands true with my neighbors, someone walking down the street, children of my community. If it is the last resort than so be it. Before that I am a member of this community, a mandated reporter, and a human being concerned with the well being of others. I honestly gave up caring what people think of my decsision to be a gun owner. People who judge others according to what other people say or lump people together by demographic are just sad. It is improper threat asessment and hurts more than it helps.
ADD:
Kwicko- +1
Rue- Those people are criminals who will have weapons regardless if I have mine or not. The differance is they are less reluctant to enter a home of most people because THEY ARE AFRAID OF BEING SHOT.
Storymark- It is getting harder and harder to listen to your argument since you keep misdefining "Assault Weapon". Educate yourself then make a logical argument. I'll keep my sporting arms while the sheeple cry out for the banning of "Assault Weapons". NEWFLASH! They are already illicit destructive devices to the regular citizen.
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The country is making a big mistake not teaching kids to cook and raise a garden and build fires.
-Loretta Lynn
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That's almost worth a giggle, Rue.
Could you really see me doin any of those things, doll ?
It'd be as ludicrous as THIS.
http://www.killerclips.com/clip.php?id=59&qid=471&PHPSESSID=2fafed0ec8
f50f25f609217fda2c2f48
-F
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Hello,
Storymark, you apparently missed the last part of my post, which briefly dealt with the other benefit of gun ownership.
Unfortunately, I can't tell you about the dozens of times I killed people to protect my family. This is because, very thankfully, I never had to shoot anyone. I hope I never will. But these guns that put holes in aluminum cans also do quite a good job of putting holes in people.
Let us put aside that, though, for now. You said some things that bother me quite a bit.
1) "I'm not going to care if you have to step down to a smaller weapon, either."
What exactly do you consider a 'smaller weapon' and do you have any conception of how 'big' the weapons are that I described to you? Do you know anything about the firearms I own? Is it the 'size' of the weapon that troubles you, and if so, what 'size' is acceptable in your philosophy? I note with interest that we are no longer discussing 'assault' weapons but rather 'size.'
2) "as I said before, there are far more important things to worry about than your fun."
I agree that there are more things to worry about than my fun. I worry every day about my freedoms, and the freedoms of others. I worry that people will try to take away my freedoms so that they can have the illusion of safety.
I worry about historical fencers having their swords outlawed for the public good.
I worry about adults being told that they can't carry pocket folding knives, because they might spontaneously decide to cut someone's throat with it.
I worry about people being told that they can't have a car engine that has more than 100 horsepower, because anything higher than that is excessively powerful.
I worry about martial arts being outlawed, because some people use the techniques to beat up other people.
I worry about pornography being outlawed, because it might corrupt children, and because some men get addicted to those 36DD's.
I worry about violence in movies being outlawed, because some people get excited when watching it, and go out and hurt someone else.
I worry about big black dildos being outlawed, because someone beat someone else to death with one.
I worry about a world where the only way people can feel safe is to remove all the things that might hurt them.
I worry about you, Storymark, and I worry about your vote. I worry that you want to shrink or remove my guns because you don't see the importance of my 'fun' when you should be concerning yourself instead over the importance of my 'freedoms.'
Please don't let your fear empower you to take away my freedoms.
--Anthony
"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner
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Quote:
I worry about you, Storymark, and I worry about your vote. I worry that you want to shrink or remove my guns because you don't see the importance of my 'fun' when you should be concerning yourself instead over the importance of my 'freedoms.'
Funny. I keep hearing the whole thing about size compensation and phallic symbols but those arguments seem to be coming from people without a phallus or possibly who have "size" issues of their own.
Also funny, my AR15 (which stands for Armalite, the company that made the weapon, not "Assault Rifle") uses a .224 caliber bullet. It is one of the smallest calibers used for modern centerfire rifles. Other common small calibers are .17 (as big as a bb/pellet from most pellet guns)and .20. How much smaller do you want the gun to be. I think making guns bigger is more logical. It is much harder to conceal hunting rifle than it is to conceal a handgun. Centerfire handguns take larger caliber bullets than many rifles. They are just shorter with a slower burning powder.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
The country is making a big mistake not teaching kids to cook and raise a garden and build fires.
-Loretta Lynn
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Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
...as I said before, there are far more important things to worry about than your fun.
Such as...? Seems the Founding Fathers had a word or two to say about "the pursuit of happiness", didn't they? Sounds like fun was one of the things they wanted most to protect.
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Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
"They want your guns because they've been told that if you have a gun, you'll do something crazy with it, maybe even kill them.
They are afraid of you."
Many people are afraid of people with guns - for several good reasons: drive-bys, car-jackings, mart-robberies ...
***************************************************************
Silence is consent.
Rue, are you afraid of cars, and do you think they should be outlawed because people break the law with them?
What you are describing (drive-bys, carjackings, robberies) are CRIMES, whether or not there's a gun involved. And there are many, many laws on the books already that severely up the penalties for using a gun in the commission of a crime. What you're proposing is like treating dandruff by decapitation - it's a bit of overkill.
I am physically capable (although not mentally capable, thank goodness) of murdering someone with a hammer, or a scarf, or a guitar string, or a shoe. Should all of those things be outlawed?
What I'm trying to say is that the problem isn't that you have people murdering people with guns - it's that you have people wanting to murder people in the first place. Taking away their guns won't cure them of the urge, it will just make them find different weapons.
Mike
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Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Hello,
Storymark, you apparently missed the last part of my post, which briefly dealt with the other benefit of gun ownership.
Unfortunately, I can't tell you about the dozens of times I killed people to protect my family. This is because, very thankfully, I never had to shoot anyone. I hope I never will. But these guns that put holes in aluminum cans also do quite a good job of putting holes in people.
Let us put aside that, though, for now. You said some things that bother me quite a bit.
1) "I'm not going to care if you have to step down to a smaller weapon, either."
What exactly do you consider a 'smaller weapon' and do you have any conception of how 'big' the weapons are that I described to you? Do you know anything about the firearms I own? Is it the 'size' of the weapon that troubles you, and if so, what 'size' is acceptable in your philosophy? I note with interest that we are no longer discussing 'assault' weapons but rather 'size.'
2) "as I said before, there are far more important things to worry about than your fun."
I agree that there are more things to worry about than my fun. I worry every day about my freedoms, and the freedoms of others. I worry that people will try to take away my freedoms so that they can have the illusion of safety.
I worry about historical fencers having their swords outlawed for the public good.
I worry about adults being told that they can't carry pocket folding knives, because they might spontaneously decide to cut someone's throat with it.
I worry about people being told that they can't have a car engine that has more than 100 horsepower, because anything higher than that is excessively powerful.
I worry about martial arts being outlawed, because some people use the techniques to beat up other people.
I worry about pornography being outlawed, because it might corrupt children, and because some men get addicted to those 36DD's.
I worry about violence in movies being outlawed, because some people get excited when watching it, and go out and hurt someone else.
I worry about big black dildos being outlawed, because someone beat someone else to death with one.
I worry about a world where the only way people can feel safe is to remove all the things that might hurt them.
I worry about you, Storymark, and I worry about your vote. I worry that you want to shrink or remove my guns because you don't see the importance of my 'fun' when you should be concerning yourself instead over the importance of my 'freedoms.'
Please don't let your fear empower you to take away my freedoms.
--Anthony
"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner
You keep going back to fear. Let me make this clear to you - I'm not afraid of guns. I just don't agree on the nessecity of them. You may disagree, but it's a dick move to simply ignore what was stated, and keep spouting the same shite.
I also already addressed defense. A handgun or shotgun is going to be far more useful for self defense, since most cases of self defense gun use are not long protracted gunfights, and are quick exchanges, usueally at close range. Which I think answers the question about size. You want a high-powered pistol handy for defense, cool. You want to use an AR-15 for defense, again, I don't care, but it seems a hell of a lot less usefull in any situation you are likely to face, and I don't mind if they're banned, because I don't see a NEED for them.
Sure, if the Zombie apocalypse comes, or Wulfy's Civil War wet-dream, a weapon like that might be more usefull, but so would a tank. Why shouldn't they be street-legal, too?
Once again - I'm not advocating a ban. But I won't be upset if there is one, either. You may not like my position, but you are going to have to live with it.
"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet
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