The Assault Weapons Ban
POSTED BY: AnthonyT
UPDATED: Friday, December 5, 2008 17:22
VIEWED: 10930
PAGE 11 of 17
Hello,
Storymark has been mischaracterized as being AGAINST assault weapon/assault rifle ownership.
He is merely apathetic. It was an easy mistake to make.
He isn't against it, he's just not for it. He won't lift a finger to help or harm the cause.
We should move on, because at this point it's becoming a beratement of the fellow. While Apathy can be dangerous, it would be worse to make this man a foe.
--Anthony
"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner
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I've acknowledged that you are not advocating an "Assault Weapon" ban. But for some strange reason you keep throwing in your experience with the criminal element (which seems to be more media influenced than anything else).
And yes, my reading comprehension may come into question. But it seems the personal attacks and misinformation indicate a further degree of ignorance on your part.
Sidenote: I was thinking about the people who'd be put in charge of protecting us. After attending a few trainings and listening to LEO's talk I'm not so sure I'd want some of them protecting me or my family. From the fanatic gun nuts to the Fife's who narrowly escape shooting thier toes off there is a definite need to better train Law Enforcement in specialty fields such as defense and firearm related incidents, human service, and common sense. For the others I commend the dedication they have to the people they protect and their fellow officers. Check out your local law enforcement agencies and ask about the training they are receiving. They might not be the fastest to respond but it will indicate the needed improvement for their service to the public and for the safety of you and your community.
ADD: Here here AT. If my statements edge on inflamitory I do aplologize. I have no need to break anyone or their opposing view point down. I hope to help educate folk who may not have access to information not influenced by indirect sources. And ignorance is not a negative thing unless one chooses it over education.
ADD PT2: OOOh-RaH!
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The country is making a big mistake not teaching kids to cook and raise a garden and build fires.
-Loretta Lynn
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Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Hello,
Storymark has been mischaracterized as being AGAINST assault weapon/assault rifle ownership.
He is merely apathetic. It was an easy mistake to make.
He isn't against it, he's just not for it. He won't lift a finger to help or harm the cause.
We should move on, because at this point it's becoming a beratement of the fellow. While Apathy can be dangerous, it would be worse to make this man a foe.
--Anthony
"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner
Well, if it makes you feel better, a couple years ago, I was strongly anti-gun. So, I've come a long way toward apathy. Heck, I've even been considering getting a gun lately, so look how far I've come.
"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."
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"A gun is a tool, nothing more, nothing less."
A tool used to shoot and only to shoot. The BEST you can hope for from a gun is that it doesn't kill innocent people. Though, come to think of it, everyone is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law, and I don't see people being executed by firing squad. So, theoretically, everyone who dies of a gunshsot is innocent. And by your own admission, 'arms' are mentioned in the constitution, and cars aren't. That makes YOUR analogy even less meaningful. So, please don't compare guns to cars, or tobacco, or alcohol.
There are implict limits on the 'right to bear arms' which no one has addressed as far as I can see.
Babies and nukes ? Anyone care to comment ?
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Silence is consent.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:Quote:
The image of a peaceful, responsible, competent gun owner isn't promoted a lot.
I'm a victim of this association myself.
It took me a while to recognize this instant association as wrong, and it always takes work to move beyond it when thinking about subjects like this.
Once I did, my opinions about gun control changed, as well.
And this bugs me quite a bit - the whole "the way they're portrayed means it's okay to think that way about guns and people who like them."
Tell ya what: try applying that logic to black people, and see where that gets you. Sure, they're portrayed a certain way in the media, so does that make it okay to be bigoted against them?
Just curious. It's interesting to watch people who supposedly have no prejudices actually reveal what theirs are. And we ALL have prejudices of some sort or another. I guess for some, it's just prejudice against gun owners that's okay and acceptable...
Mike
I'm sorry, are you attacking me for my post? I can't tell whether you are or not, but if you are, I'll be annoyed because I not only stated a prejudice I have but also that I recognize it and actively try to work around it. Can't ask for more than that, so direct your anger at someone else, thank you very much.
As for the racism comparison, most people operating under prejudices do not feel that they are. It's actually not that easy to recognize, because ultimately, many of our assumptions about the world come from very limited media-sources. Unless you examine something further, many of your impressionms will stay rudimentary and perhaps prejudiced.
So no one says it's "okay" to pre prejudiced because of media portrayal. It is simply the fact that many people are.
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Hello,
Rue, I will confess where I diverge from most of my 'gun-nut' bretheren.
In a world where there is agreement that lawful citizens should be allowed to keep and carry armaments, I'd be happy to oblige certain 'common sense' legal requirements.
I'd be happy to be required to take a government sponsored training and certification course in gun handling and safety. I think it'd be a good idea to make such courses available as an elective in High School, with night/weekend classes available to adults of the community.
I'd be happy to have my identity checked at the time of purchase of a firearm, to be sure I haven't been legally deemed insane or a felon whose rights haven't been restored.
I'd be happy to have age requirements for different types of firearms, such that children under the age of 16 could only use rimfire weapons under the supervision of an adult, once the safety and handling certificates are earned.
I think these steps are good common-sense measures to make sure that the owners and users of firearms are competent and responsible.
However...
I acknowledge that I am in a world where there is no agreement that lawful citizens should be allowed to keep and carry armaments. In the world I live in, common-sense gun control measures are stepping stones to disarmament. In the world I live in, gun-control advocates have explicitly stated that their goal with each measure of law is to inch closer to their ideal of complete gun banishment.
In my world, the desire to disarm me makes it difficult for me to embrace gun-control, because I've already been told in no uncertain terms that each foot in the door is a step towards robbing me of my rights.
If the gun control advocates were prepared to acknowledge my rights to own and carry, I'd be prepared to go a long way in setting up reasonable training requirements and limitations.
--Anthony
"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner
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AnthonyT
I think there should be explicit common-sense restrictions - considering there are implicit ones.
I'd go even further - I think military service should be mandatory, and after basic training where everyone is taught about guns - how to use them safely, how to clean them, how to store them - you may choose to serve your country either in community service (three-year tour) or in military operations (one year tour). That would eliminate what I think of as a dangerous bifurcation of populace - those who are interested in guns (for whatever reason) and those who aren't and are at a relative disadvantage.
What I don't understand is WHY the US has such a high gun death rate. What is it in our collective relationship with guns that makes us so much more likely to kill and maim with them than any other developed country on the face of the earth ?
Any thoughts ?
***************************************************************
Silence is consent.
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Hello,
The United States was born in the gun age. European countries predate guns. That's the only thing I can think of. From the inception of this country, the gun was a standard daily companion and a primary tool. It must be cultural.
That's all I can think of.
BTW, you sound a bit like Heinlein there. ;-)
--Anthony
"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner
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Well, if you are interested in owning a piece, Storymark, then I have three suggestions for you.
The reason I offer them is that I most especially would not like you running up into some of the bad advice and general nuttery (which I will not deny exists in unfortunate measure) and become disheartened with the idea.
The first is Kathy's site, cornered cat.
http://www.corneredcat.com/
It's a no BS educational site about use of firearms for self defense with factual and useful information uncluttered by the usual rhetoric and BS.
The second is Marc Macyoung's site.
http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/self-defense.htm
Of particular interest is it's focus on detecting and avoiding crime and conflict by knowing what to be aware of and avoiding or de-escalating the situation before it comes to violence, something usually not nearly stressed enough, or in enough detail when talking about these issues.
And third, what TO carry.
I reccommend the Bersa Thunder .380ACP concealed carry model.
http://www.bersafirearmsusa.com/detail_bersa380cc.php
It is entirely sufficient for personal defense, easy to use, reliable, lightweight at 23oz and quite inexpensive, retailing for only $315.00USD.
No harsh recoil, ear wrecking blast, or overcomplicated mechanisms to make cleaning a hassle - just a good, solid tool for the purpose of self defense and nothing more.
I might be quite harsh when it comes to discussing the right and the concept, but I will always, ALWAYS aid someone who's willing to see to their own defense as much as I can, because to do less would be unforgiveable negligence on my part.
-Frem
It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it
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You also have to consider that other countries that have high gun death rates are in constant turmoil, lack the means or ablity to track them, or it is so common place that reporting or gathering that information is redundant in their terms.
Also, there is a growing number of firearm related crimes/deaths in countries where firearms are a restricted. In America, it seems to be cultural. Plus the media almost overshares information on such things. They seem to want people fearful just so they can tune into the news to see what's happening. They always prompt some horrible story or finding of some study right before a commercial break. There always seems to be some story they want you to wait until the eleven o'clock show for.
Culturally Americans seem to be leaning away from physical prowess. People seem more prone to percieved power, self conscious attitudes, and self righteous reasoning. When I was growing up it was more about physical ability, turning the other cheek, and telling the truth. But watching other my age get older I saw the difference between the way I was raised and the cultural, social, and family dynamics they were shown. Even now I see the kids I work with or have had as clients in the past with ill concieved notions about the world and people in it.
Regardless if there is an "Assault Weapon" ban or not, dirty motherfuckers will continue to do dirty shit. They will prey upon the weak or unassuming or falsely secured with whatever weapon is handy. Our kids will continue to be bombarded with warped social commentary from whatever media they happen to see. I just hope for people to truly make informed descisions about such things before they make them.
ADD: I highly recommend people watch The Boondocks. It was an awesome representation if the twisted and warped perceptions of our youth regardless if they are black, white, or green.
http://www.adultswim.com/shows/theboondocks/index.html
And Kudos Storymark for the admission of mind changing from against to neutral. Not because you are closer to the Pro side, but because it is a difficult thing to move from one way of thinking to another.
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The country is making a big mistake not teaching kids to cook and raise a garden and build fires.
-Loretta Lynn
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