Screw 'em if they hate us
POSTED BY: 6ixStringJack
UPDATED: Tuesday, July 1, 2008 09:13
VIEWED: 19860
PAGE 16 of 30
Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Nothing.
So who makes the FMRI? Who makes the parts for the FMRI? Who makes the machines that make the parts for the FMRI? Who does this at a cost low enough that it's economical enough for some people and organizations to buy an FMRI? Where in the entire world, including countries with non-capitalist economic systems, is an FMRI made without corporate involvement?
"Keep the Shiny side up"
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Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
...what we have now (laizzes faire monopolism)
Hmmm... What do you mean by "laizzes faire monopolism"?
My understanding is that the term "laissez faire" implies a lack of government involvement, and I can't see how that's the case now. If by "monopolism" you're referring to the privileged positions of power that established corporations enjoy, then I have to agree - that fact dominates our economy. But they manage that as a result of government involvement, not through a lack of it. And they hold sway by controlling legislation and using it to ensure their dominance. The situation is the direct opposite of the concept of "laizzes faire".
"Corporate/government partnership" seems to me a more accurate description our current twisted version of capitalism.
SergeantX
"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock
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Mmm... 'kay. Laizzes faire monopolism means letting the monopolies do whatever the h*ll they want. But if I called it what it REALLY is most people would be turned off immediately. I'm trying to walk in that direction: that corporations exist because of our laws... not because they're some sort of "natural feature"... and that changing our laws is the sanest thing to do.
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Let's party like it's 1929.
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Quote:PEOPLE DO. The only thing corporations "make" is a profit.
So who makes the FMRI? Who makes the parts for the FMRI? Who makes the machines that make the parts for the FMRI?
When I talk with my daughter, I'm VERY careful NOT to say "Toyota makes..." or "GE makes..." As far as I'm concerned that's like telling her that the Easter bunny exists. And it's part of your essential confusion. Corporations are not necessary. For anything.
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Let's party like it's 1929.
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So how large is a corporation allowed to be before it's too large (in your opinion)?
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Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
6ix: There is a critical flaw in your concept of "island America". While we have a abundant resources compared to EU and China, we're missing key elements.
Modern technology depends on a lot of little things all coming together at the same time. You can't make stainless steel w/o chromium, for example. So everything could be going along swimmingly, and then suddenly you find yourself short of something that you hadn't thought of.. tantalum for capacitors, as an example.
We rely 100% for imports of bauxite (aluminum ore), 95% on bismuth, 78% cobalt, 100% manganese, 91% platinum, 95% tin, and 100% thallium.
www.census.gov/prod/2006pubs/07statab/natresor.pdf
p13.
So while I agree that we have many resources, we can't isolate ourselves completely.
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Let's party like it's 1929.
DINGDINGDINGDINGDING - Signy for the win! I've been quietly sitting back, for once, and just waiting for this to be mentioned. What happens when there is stuff we DON'T have here in the U.S., stuff that is crucial or vital for the stuff we want to make and NEED to make? We're now completely cut off from the world, remember -we can't just go an buy it on the open market, because we've rejected the rest of the world. What happens if we try to buy it, and they refuse to sell it to us, or meet our terms? Do we invade their country and just take what we want? Then we're no longer isolationist, but imperialists, and we start back on the road to where we are now.
Like it or not, AMERICA CAN NOT SIMPLY WITHDRAW FROM THE WORLD. We can pick our spots and limit our meddling, but we're going to be in somebody's business one way or another.
Mike
"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions
I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock
The Myrmidons were an ancient nation of very brave and skilled warriors as described in Homer's Iliad, and were commanded by Achilles. - Wikipedia
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It's not the size that bother me as much as the business form. Corporations seems to have an exceedingly favorable perch: The get all of the "rights" of individuals (freedom of speech, privacy, patents etc.) but none of the downsides. When was the last time you saw a corporation "executed" for knowingly killing someone (even thousands of people) with a defective product?
They get favorable tax rates (THEY get to take "expenses" off their income, WE don't!). If you steal from a person it may be a misdemeanor, but if you steal from a corporation it's an automatic felony. I can come up with dozens of examples that would make your head blow off.
In addition, and I know this is sacrosanct, but I've thought this out in detail... business REALLY gets into trouble when its publicly traded. Suddenly, the "worth" of a business gets yanked around by speculation. The CEO, owner, or board is unable to look further ahead than the next quarterly report. I've seen small businesses with great products get hammered in the stock market because the market wouldn't allow them to pursue market share at the expense of profitability... which was (for them) the only path to success.
So I'm not a know-nothing when it comes to business, economics, and markets. But it's the stock market that drives companies to do unethical things... either because chief officers are looking to fatten their stock options before they bail (like Enron) or because they feel the hot breath of a takeover down their neck (like Yahoo). Also, the stock market encourages consolidation, which leads to the formation of monopolies.
I guess the answer to your question is... there are a lot of laws that could be changed.
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Let's party like it's 1929.
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How do I make myself a corporation?
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I don't completely agree with all aspects of what you've posted on this topic (although not in the mood to debate it, I'm far from being an expert anyway), but I do agree with your last post.
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This isn't my signature. I have to type this every time I make a post.
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