Screw 'em if they hate us

POSTED BY: 6ixStringJack
UPDATED: Tuesday, July 1, 2008 09:13
VIEWED: 19860
PAGE 5 of 30

'Rappy: I note your source for your "liberal bias" claim as the Media Research Center, the same Media Research Center that had THIS to say:

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We are training our guns on any media outlet or any reporter interfering with America's war on terrorism or trying to undermine the authority of President Bush. We are taking no prisoners!

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So clearly you can see that they have a little "bias" of their own.

That crap about owners of news outlets not having any say in how news is reported or slanted is utter gunk. You claim that, and THEN also claim that a reporter's political leanings DO obviously affect the way that THEY report or slant a story. Trying to have it both ways much?

As for the Media Research Center's "facts" - I'll give them exactly as much credence as you'd give an investigative piece published in Vanity Fair or the New York Times: none whatsoever.




Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

The Myrmidons were an ancient nation of very brave and skilled warriors as described in Homer's Iliad, and were commanded by Achilles. - Wikipedia

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unless you consider corporatism and monopolism synonymous

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Geezer, I've often said the inevitable end stage of capitalism is monopolism (or corporatism). And we're there.

"They're jealous of our long work hours..."
And who made that necessary? Corporations, of course.

"our high crime rate, our homelessness..."
In my opinion, a result of an economic ideology that pits everyone against everyone, where there is no room for societal goals.

"our boob of a President..."
Thanks to the dumbed-down discourse that been foisted on us by an advertising culture and corporately-owned media.

"our monopolism..."
Thanks to, well, the monopolies

"our lack of health-care."
Thanks to corporations

"And what they're REALLY jealous of is our system of government, which is freely selected by a corrupted and fraudulent voting system."
Thanks to Diebold, Choicepoint, and other corporations, and the prevailing viewpoint that anything that can be done MUST be done by a for-profit business... including the voting process. (See Hacking Democracy)

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I can't find them. Cites please

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It's an ongoing discussion with Finn about patriotism versus republicanism. I'm not going to find it for you but it pops up here and there.

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And BTW, even the most ardent libertarian here knows that we're not going to get rid of government alltogether. most would be happy just reducing its size and power.

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mmm... I get a very distinct "camel's nose in the tent" whiff from you, Sarge, and Frem about Libertarianism, which often seems just a cover for corporo-anarchism.... or is it anarcho-corporatism? And any government function that you'd get rid of you'd replace with... ....more corporations!
As if that's gonna help!

Much as YOU would like to blur the lines the Founding Fathers, to the best of my knowledge, tried to create a system of government not a system of monopolies or an empire to feed them. When I think about what's best about this nation, its the ideals of Jefferson, Adams, and Franklin.

So now you've just read something positive from me about the USA (which, if you'd been paying attention, you'd realize is just a repeat of what I've said before.)

---------------------------------
Let's party like it's 1929.

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Originally posted by SignyM:

"They're jealous of our long work hours..."
And who made that necessary? Corporations, of course.

"our high crime rate, our homelessness..."
In my opinion, a result of an economic ideology that pits everyone against everyone, where there is no room for societal goals.

"our boob of a President..."
Thanks to the dumbed-down discourse that been foisted on us by an advertising culture and corporately-owned media.

"our monopolism..."
Thanks to, well, the monopolies

"our lack of health-care."
Thanks to corporations

"And what they're REALLY jealous of is our system of government, which is freely selected by a corrupted and fraudulent voting system."
Thanks to Diebold, Choicepoint, and other corporations, and the prevailing viewpoint that anything that can be done MUST be done by a for-profit business... including the voting process.

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Even assuming that these assertions are true (but that's for another thread), the caveat that it's all due to corporatism is not what you originally said, or what you generally ever say, when the subject of the US comes up.

If we lived with the same government we had when the Founding Fathers were alive we'd still have slavery, only rich white men could vote, pretty much only men could own property, etc. I'd say there have been some improvements.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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"They're jealous of our long work hours..."
And who made that necessary? Corporations, of course.

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It used to be people in this country worked from sun up till sun down, but somewhere in the 20th century the United States Government decided that since there were 120 hours in a week that 40 of them will go to work, 40 to recreation, and 40 to sleep. I don't know where you get this gripe about having to work long hours unless you're from Italy or maybe France where they don't believe in putting in a fair days labor for a fair days pay.

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"our high crime rate, our homelessness..."
In my opinion, a result of an economic ideology that pits everyone against everyone, where there is no room for societal goals.

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There were high crime rates long before there were corporations and there was a high level of homelessness then too, and the causes for homelessness are plentiful so trying to blame these issues on corporations is a bit unfair I think. Also in America it is against the law to hold a monopoly unless you can get a special permit by the government like maybe a professional sports organization. Even then when someone can get a special license to hold a monopoly that license has to be voted upon in the senate periodically and that is why the associations like baseball and football jump whenever a congressman or senator investigates them, they might lose their license for that monopoly.

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"our boob of a President..."
Thanks to the dumbed-down discourse that been foisted on us by an advertising culture and corporately-owned media.

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Our president isn't a genius because he has an IQ of 120. What is yours again? From some of the conclusions you've shown I would guess 85?

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"And what they're REALLY jealous of is our system of government, which is freely selected by a corrupted and fraudulent voting system."
Thanks to Diebold, Choicepoint, and other corporations, and the prevailing viewpoint that anything that can be done MUST be done by a for-profit business... including the voting process. (See Hacking Democracy)

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We are not a democracy and I am surprised that people in this country still embrace this idea that we are when it quite clearly states in paragraph four of chapter four of our constitution that the Government must be run in the form of a republic. Am I going to have to explain to you the differences between a democracy and a republic, or can I trust that you’ll look it up?







http://swyzzlestyx.com/index.html

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Originally posted by rallem:
We are not a democracy and I am surprised that people in this country still embrace this idea that we are when it quite clearly states in paragraph four of chapter four of our constitution that the Government must be run in the form of a republic. Am I going to have to explain to you the differences between a democracy and a republic, or can I trust that you’ll look it up?

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I believe you need to look it up. Democracy is an Umbrella term for government formed through popular vote, which includes Democratic Republics which is what the US is. If we are to take the classical view of a Democracy, there hasn't been one since the ancient Greece city state of Athens, the term has expanded since then.

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More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Our president isn't a genius because he has an IQ of 120. What is yours again?

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You really wanna know? Put it this way: in my house, the President would be the one sitting in the corner with the dunce cap on.




Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

The Myrmidons were an ancient nation of very brave and skilled warriors as described in Homer's Iliad, and were commanded by Achilles. - Wikipedia

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somewhere in the 20th century the United States Government decided that since there were 120 hours in a week that 40 of them will go to work, 40 to recreation, and 40 to sleep.

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Might wanna check your facts there, bub. It wasn't the US government that decided it, it was the labor unions. Be sure to thank a union member for your 40-hour week! The government didn't so much "decide" it, they mostly *accepted* it as a standard after more and more unions demanded it and got it.

From Wiki:

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In the United States, Philadelphia carpenters went on strike in 1791 for the ten-hour day. By the 1830s, this had become a general demand. In 1835, workers in Philadelphia organized a general strike, led by Irish coal heavers. Their banners read, From 6 to 6, ten hours work and two hours for meals. Labor movement publications called for an eight-hour day as early as 1836. Boston ship carpenters, although not unionized, achieved an eight-hour day in 1842.
In 1864, the eight-hour day quickly became a central demand of the Chicago labor movement. The Illinois legislature passed a law in early 1867 granting an eight-hour day but had so many loopholes that it was largely ineffective. A city-wide strike that began on May 1, 1867, shut down the city's economy for a week before collapsing. In 1868, Congress passed an eight-hour law for federal employees, which was also of limited effectiveness.
In August 1866 the National Labor Union at Baltimore passed a resolution that said, "The first and great necessity of the present to free labour of this country from capitalist slavery, is the passing of a law by which eight hours shall be the normal working day in all States of the American Union. We are resolved to put forth all our strength until this glorious result is achieved."
During the 1870s, eight hours became a central demand, especially among labor organizers, anarchists and socialists, with a network of Eight-Hour Leagues which held rallies and parades. A hundred thousand workers in New York City struck and won the eight-hour day in 1872, mostly for building trades workers. In Chicago, Albert Parsons became recording secretary of the Chicago Eight-Hour League in 1878, and was appointed a member of a national eight-hour committee in 1880.
At its convention in Chicago in 1884, the Federation of Organized Trades and Labor Unions resolved that "eight hours shall constitute a legal day's labour from and after May 1, 1886, and that we recommend to labour organizations throughout this jurisdiction that they so direct their laws as to conform to this resolution by the time named."
The leadership of the Knights of Labor, under Terence V. Powderly, rejected appeals to join the movement as a whole, but many local Knights assemblies joined the strike call including Chicago, Cincinnati and Milwaukee. On May 1, 1886, Albert Parsons, head of the Chicago Knights of Labor, with his wife Lucy Parsons and two children, led 80,000 people down Michigan Avenue, Chicago, in what is regarded as the first-ever modern May Day Parade, in support of the eight-hour day. In the next few days they were joined nationwide by 350,000 workers who went on strike at 1,200 factories, including 70,000 in Chicago, 45,000 in New York, 32,000 in Cincinnati, and additional thousands in other cities. Some workers gained shorter hours (eight or nine) with no reduction in pay; others accepted pay cuts with the reduction in hours.


On May 3, 1886, August Spies, editor of the Arbeiter-Zeitung (Workers Newspaper), spoke at a meeting of 6,000 workers, and afterwards many of them moved down the street to harass strikebreakers at the McCormick plant in Chicago. The police arrived, opened fire, and killed four people, wounding many more. At a subsequent rally on May 4 to protest this violence, a bomb exploded at the Haymarket Square. Hundreds of labour activists were rounded up and the prominent labour leaders arrested, tried, convicted, and executed giving the movement its first martyrs. On June 26, 1893 Illinois Governor John Peter Altgeld set the remainin

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