General Discussions

My 10 year old in some FF related trouble

POSTED BY: JustDavid
UPDATED: Tuesday, April 20, 2004 21:57
VIEWED: 20544
PAGE 5 of 9

EMBERS

Thursday, April 15, 2004 10:04 PM

I would like to add that I think JustDavid does deserve credit for raising his daughter well:

1. she told the truth to her teacher (when I was 10 I was fully capable of lying and saying that I had just said some nonsense words with no meaning if I was caught in that situation).

2. she was concerned about disappointing her Father, showing that she deeply cares about earning and keeping his respect.

Obviously this little girl shows respect to adults and has good principles...

and Leita is a lovely name

------------------
eta: and clearly the 'woo hoo' was for the benefit of the community here at the board, who would understand the kick he got out of his child being so knowledgable about 'Firefly'...

JASONZZZ

Thursday, April 15, 2004 11:22 PM

Kids are the people of the future. Each person can either make a difference or be a drain. They are not *just* little pink things to tickle and to pass the time. There are fun times, but we can't nearly take it seriously enough.

We can *all* learn, not just kids. Even good parents can learn to be even better parents. Not saying that anyone is doing it perfectly. It's like making spaghetti. There are couple of ways of ruining it - aside from that, there are no "wrong" ways. As long as it doesn't come out a pink mush, most people will probably agree it's alright - nothing spectacular, but ok. Now, you and I might have found a few tid bits along the way to make it better. Why not share it? You might decide to use it next time, you might not... It's up to you. It's sort of like that.

However, if something is done wrong. Pasta is burned, sauce is vinegary or some other crap. I will take offense. Why? B/C, kids, unlike spaghetti, we *all* have to live with some day.

I am offering nothing more than, "Hey, try some italian sausage bits in the sauce, maybe it'll work out better"

Quote:
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:
I think that some people are blowing this out of proportion.

1) She's 10!
2) She *is* exploring how to handle different situations.
3) The dad *did* make sure she knew it was wrong and *not* to do it again.

I am not saying it's bad. I am saying maybe there could be more. Again, "Maybe a bit of Cumin? or a sprig of Rosemary" A suggestion. I am not going to come into your living room and grade you or make you do it my way.

Quote:
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:

So then, what the big deal? Life is a continual learning process and she *has* learned. Some will teach there kids one way, others other ways. It doesn't mean that any one method is wrong, just different. His method seems appropriate for that particular child and that does *not* mean it is for every child.

I complete agree. Life is a continual learning process - for everyone. But it doesn't mean that we all have to go at it alone.

I don't think at any given time here I have assessed or judged JustDavid as wrong or inappropriate. That's not my intend and I don't believe I state anything in that way. Really, I tried to not assess the appropriateness at all. I stated plainly that I don't agree with kids 10 years old of age swearing - other than that...

IAC, like I said, it's an option that I see viable. I offered it - without judgement or assessment. I don't see any disrespect or uncivility in helping out a fellow human being - if something can be improved or you know a tidbit, I expect you to point it out, nothing less.

Quote:
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:

For instance when my sister and I were growing up our parents would typically send me to my room from something for a little while, but, if my sister did the same thing she would be grounded for afew days or at least get into more trouble.

On first glance it would seem unfair to do this, but, I learned from my mistakes *alot* quicker than she did. So, when I did something stupid I need less of a... correction, as I just "got it", but, she needed more of a... motivation.

I don't see anything here as a comment on JustDavid's person. lmk if you really think so.

I can see how people can see a little commenting or criticism and mistaking it as a judgement (and who really cares what another person thinks or judges you). Everyone is proud of their kids and everyone thinks their kid are the smartest/handsomest/prettiest/tallest/fastest/greatest.
Nothing should be further from the truth - as far as the parent's perception goes. But what we do is something different all together. What we do each very moment changes a little person's entire life. We can all do better, and that doesn't happen if we shut out criticisms and tidbits from others.

It's a community, I assumed that people come to be a part of one and not to go at it alone.

Quote:

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BOURNE

Friday, April 16, 2004 4:57 AM

Quote:
you are correct... "Ta ma de" would be considered a fragment in the grammatical sense. But it's always uttered standalone - sometimes leaving you with a feeling that it does indeed is spoken with ellipses at the end and leading to something else, other times it just is.

Aside from the commonplace truncation of obscenities in English (e.g. "son of a-") which are clearly bitten off, there are far less obvious examples that appear to be "standalone" words/phrases, too. "Chicken" - as an accusation of cowardice - is one, as it was originally "chickenshit." Still is, in less polite company, though the non-scatological derivative is often accompanied by clucking noises, as if the reference were to the chicken itself.

People are funny that way.

Quote:
BTW, you seem to reference Putonghua and Mandarin as if there is a difference between them?

Yup. In the likely event of someone reading this who knows more about Chinese languages than I do, I wanted to be precise. As I alluded to parenthetically, "Putonghua"(literally "common speech") refers to the common spoken vernacular of mainland China. It is Mandarin, but I don't know if the slang, colloquialisms, etc used in Taiwan and other places are exactly the same as in the PRC. That phrase is probably the same in Taiwan - they've only been separated for 50-odd years - but I don't know for sure.

Sorry everybody else, if this was a little too far OT.

SIGMANUNKI

Friday, April 16, 2004 5:34 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
Kids are the people of the future. Each person can either make a difference or be a drain.

To be nit picky, there are those that are neither.

Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
We can *all* learn, not just kids. Even good parents can learn to be even better parents. Not saying that anyone is doing it perfectly.

True, everyone *should* learn throughout there entire life. And all do to one extent or another.

Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
It's like making spaghetti. There are couple of ways of ruining it - aside from that, there are no "wrong" ways. As long as it doesn't come out a pink mush, most people will probably agree it's alright - nothing spectacular, but ok.

Well, with todays society I'd say there are a whole bunch of ways to mess it up.

But, to your "nothing spectacular, but ok" comment. I disagree. That is too much an area of opinion. I mean, how you define ok or spectacular would differ greatly from the next guy. It really depends on the family/child's situation.

Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
Now, you and I might have found a few tid bits along the way to make it better. Why not share it? You might decide to use it next time, you might not... It's up to you. It's sort of like that.

You seem to think that I meant you when I posted. I never meant this to be an attack on you. My post was more of a comment that there was too much opinion going back and forth and things were kind of getting away from the basic facts of this particular situation.

If someone wanted to talk about parenting in general, IMHO, they should create a thread specifically for that.

I don't really like this spaghetti analogy. Too far off from what we are talking about. For me anyway.

Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
I stated plainly that I don't agree with kids 10 years old of age swearing - other than that...

True, they shouldn't, but, they will. And there isn't anything that any of us can do about it. We can only - when it happens - deal with it appropriately. Which, IMHO, was done here.

Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
...if something can be improved or you know a tidbit, I expect you to point it out, nothing less.

And I you.

Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
It's a community, I assumed that people come to be a part of one and not to go at it alone.

I don't disagree one bit.

----
"If you truly love the memory, you must set it free()!" -Me
"Also, I can kill you with my brain." -River

JASONZZZ

Friday, April 16, 2004 5:39 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bourne:

Quote:
BTW, you seem to reference Putonghua and Mandarin as if there is a difference between them?

Yup. In the likely event of someone reading this who knows more about Chinese languages than I do, I wanted to be precise. As I alluded to parenthetically, "Putonghua"(literally "common speech") refers to the common spoken vernacular of mainland China. It is Mandarin, but I don't know if the slang, colloquialisms, etc used in Taiwan and other places are exactly the same as in the PRC. That phrase is probably the same in Taiwan - they've only been separated for 50-odd years - but I don't know for sure.

Sorry everybody else, if this was a little too far OT.

I have never heard anyone make that particular distinction between the two before. It's always been in reference to the same thing to me - as in used interchangebly. Of course, Chinese from China (reference to both Mainland and Taiwan) would use "Putonghua" to reference especially the spoken language and "Zhongwen" for general reference to the entire language (but probably more times the written portion, hmm.. "Hanzi") - Mandarin is the English reference to the same deal.

I don't know, last I heard, the newest generation of folks from Taiwan are claiming they are *not* Chinese, but in fact, Taiwanese. Oddest thing to me, since the older generation has always claimed they were Chinese and the aboriginals are the Taiwanese folks. I don't know what these people are thinking anymore.

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BOURNE

Friday, April 16, 2004 6:16 AM

Quote:
I have never heard anyone make that particular distinction between the two before. It's always been in reference to the same thing to me - as in used interchangebly. Of course, Chinese from China (reference to both Mainland and Taiwan) would use Putonghua for the spoken language and Zhongwen for general reference to the entire language (but probably more times the written portion) - Mandarin is the English reference to the same deal.

You're right, except that ROC Chinese refer to "their" Mandarin as "guoyu" ("the national tongue"). Superficial usages aside, exactly the same language; the only meaningful distinction is political. I remember restraining my eyes from rolling when a teacher explained this to me. Kinda like renaming sauerkraut "liberty cabbage" during WWI.

Still, the Taiwanese are in a tough spot, politically. If I walked a mile in their shoes, I might wanna forget the past, too.

JASONZZZ

Friday, April 16, 2004 7:12 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:
Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
Kids are the people of the future. Each person can either make a difference or be a drain.

To be nit picky, there are those that are neither.

Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
We can *all* learn, not just kids. Even good parents can learn to be even better parents. Not saying that anyone is doing it perfectly.

True, everyone *should* learn throughout there entire life. And all do to one extent or another.

Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
It's like making spaghetti. There are couple of ways of ruining it - aside from that, there are no "wrong" ways. As long as it doesn't come out a pink mush, most people will probably agree it's alright - nothing spectacular, but ok.

Well, with todays society I'd say there are a whole bunch of ways to mess it up.

But, to your "nothing spectacular, but ok" comment. I disagree. That is too much an area of opinion. I mean, how you define ok or spectacular would differ greatly fro

I don't think we have to *count* the ways. I should have used numerous instead of couple - people seem to wanna count a couple as exactly two. ...

So you would eat pink mush offered as spaghetti? don't understand where that grey area is. There is no question that a whole bunch of folks would declare their kids spectacular - but are they really? We might not agree on what spectacular is, but we can probably get some roundabout general consensus on what's "not spectacular, but ok"... hence the spaghetti analogy. If you charge $25 for a plate of spaghetti and people are still buying it - I would believe that you have people agreeing what it is.

Quote:
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:

Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
Now, you and I might have found a few tid bits along the way to make it better. Why not share it? You might decide to use it next time, you might not... It's up to you. It's sort of like that.

You seem to think that I meant you when I posted. I never meant this to be an attack on you. My post was more of a comment that there was too much opinion going back and forth and things were kind of getting away from the basic facts of this particular situation.

No, not an attack. Since the reply was to me and the word "you" was used alot. I just seem to gather that as the passages were directed at me.

I do agree that it is getting off the basic facts, particularly the celebration and over-interpretation of what was going on. As I have suggested, there are many ways to "over-interpret" the child's reaction. Other have offered theirs.

Quote:

If someone wanted to talk about parenting in general, IMHO, they should create a thread specifically for that.

I don't really like this spaghetti analogy. Too far off from what we are talking about. For me anyway.

Always try to offer a plausible analogy that doesn't carry the same emotions. Cooking a meal and raising kids aren't that far off - Some people cook a gourmet meal and have great recipes to share, some others come up with results that they are absolutely proud of but others have ambivalence about. At the end of the day, we all have to eat it and live with it - otherwise you go hungry.

Quote:

Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
I stated plainly that I don't agree with kids 10 years old of age swearing - other than that...

True, they shouldn't, but, they will. And there isn't anything that any of us can do about it. We can only - when it happens - deal with it appropriately. Which, IMHO, was done here.

Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
...if something can be improved or you know a tidbit, I expect you to point it out, nothing less.

And I you.

Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
It's a community, I assumed that people come to be a part of one and not to go at it alone.

I don't disagree one bit.

----
"If you truly love the memory,

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SIGMANUNKI

Friday, April 16, 2004 8:47 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
So you would eat pink mush offered as spaghetti?

Of course not. And I still don't like that analogy.

Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
don't understand where that grey area is.

One parent would say that there kid is spectacular if they completed high school. The other might be just ok or even a disappointment if they only "earn" a few hundred thousand a year.

Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
If you charge $25 for a plate of spaghetti and people are still buying it - I would believe that you have people agreeing what it is.

Here is where your analogy breaks down. If you have a kid and screw it up. No-one will disagree if it's a kid or not.

Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
No, not an attack. Since the reply was to me and the word "you" was used alot.

I'll try to be more careful when I post when I'm tired next time

Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
Cooking a meal and raising kids aren't that far off...

You and I clearly disagree here.

Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
...otherwise you go hungry.

What does this refer to. One cannot remove themselves from society no matter how much they try. That is unless they go to some island or the middle of the Amazon.

----
"If you truly love the memory, you must set it free()!" -Me
"Also, I can kill you with my brain." -River

JASONZZZ

Saturday, April 17, 2004 12:02 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:

Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
...otherwise you go hungry.

What does this refer to. One cannot remove themselves from society no matter how much they try. That is unless they go to some island or the middle of the Amazon.

----
"If you truly love the memory, you must set it free()!" -Me
"Also, I can kill you with my brain." -River

Exactly, that's where my comments on how another parent raises their kids have possible eventual repercussions to the rest of society. We are all interconnected some how. So it's not exactly just one person's business on how one raise their kids, each person really has a broader responsibility beyond the basic food, shelter, clothing. Beyond even education, morals, social skills. But an effective societal member - not just a nice or intelligent person to have around. Someone who adds value - we can all add value in our own way, but just not someone who clearly is a drain.

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SIGMANUNKI

Saturday, April 17, 2004 12:17 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
Exactly, that's where my comments on how another parent raises their kids have possible eventual repercussions to the rest of society...

To be fair. It's not only the parents responsibility to raise the child proper.

The parents typically only really have influence up to the terrible teens. Then it's mainly the friends that influence the child.

It is up to the child at some point as well. I know that my value system is very different from my parents. I have always tended to side more with the Eastern Religions where my parents are Protestant. My parents also consider money *far* more highly than I do. I could go on.

Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
But an effective societal member - not just a nice or intelligent person to have around. Someone who adds value - we can all add value in our own way, but just not someone who clearly is a drain.

Well, wouldn't a nice and/or an intelligent person be a contributing member of society by default?

----
"If you truly love the memory, you must set it free()!" -Me
"Also, I can kill you with my brain." -River