At precisely what point should we be alarmed at human rights violations?
POSTED BY: chrisisall
UPDATED: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 18:06
VIEWED: 6644
PAGE 9 of 12
Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Then, without one whit of supporting evidence or thought beyond the insult, proceeded to call it "impossible" because it offended YOUR concept of reality, which, lemme be completely fucking blunt - involves clinging to big daddy Governments apron strings and doing all that it tells you cause you're terrified of the great boogeyman of "terrorism" hiding under every rock and behind every corner of america...
If you're talking about viable space travel in time to get you, Fremd, off the planet to a place where you could live on your own resources, which is what you seemed to be describing - I'd stick with impossible.
It doesn't have anything to do with 'big daddy government' or any of your other boogeymen, but just the fact that the technology isn't going to mature quickly enough for that to happen.
We're pretty much at the skin coracle level of spacecraft now, as compared to the caravels we'd need to make it to anywhere anywhere liveable with enough stuff to support us full-time when we got there. After getting there, you still gotta figure out how to live in orbit, or on a planet, moon, or asteroid, without any continuing support from home, so you need an economical and reliable way to provide atmosphere, energy, water, food, and raw materials. This isn't in the cards on a commercial scale for quite a while.
Reasonably self-sufficent colonies in space in your lifetime just isn't doable, because there's so many levels of development that need to occur. Getting far enough away that you won't be involved with earthbound governments is yet another order of magnitude harder, requiring a private ship which could go extra-solar and provide ALL necessities to establish a colony. And if you bring enough folks to avoid the unfavorable results of too small a gene pool, you're gonna end up with some type of government there anyway.
I don't doubt that we will move into space some day, and maybe out of the Solar System, but it's gonna be a while. You and I won't be around to see it.
Until that time, we and our descendents will have to deal with government. Not necessarily 'clinging to apron strings' or 'trembling in fear', but nudging it in the direction we want it to go. Since there's other folks nudging too, we won't get exactly what we want, sometimes not even close.
If you don't think the government will change, there's nowhere for you to run away from them, and you won't bend over, you better start thinking about finding another option.
"Keep the Shiny side up"
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Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
The one thing that doesn't get a whole lot of attention is the idea of 'proportionate'.
So we have certain folks here (you know who you are) who say - didn't sign the ticket ? TASE 'EM!
So who said that? Most of us here have noted that some use of force, be it tasers or whatever, is inappropriate.
'Proportionate' would start with considering all people, or at least all innocent people, as being equal in worth. So proprtionately, which causes more harm to the innocents; inappropriately tasing them or starving them to death? Both things are bad, but which is worse?
"Keep the Shiny side up"
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Welcome to today's installment of "Obfuscating for Dollars"!
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I liken it to watching a dog chase his tail.
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It's been a long time since I've seen someone go in so many circles.
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I am aware it's unlikely in our lifetimes, but then so was the internet, and here we are talking on it, yes ?
I want at least the process in motion, instead of restricting ourselves to antiquated unsafe pieces of shit good only for installing spy and comm satellites in orbit and of no other use outside the gravity well.
And no, not a station, a SHIP, curse it, Solar Sail and Ion engines especially have shown great promise and we're at a point where an in-space test bed is needed to prove or disprove certain things before further development, so why the hell not apply it for a little jaunt in near-earth space so we can call it one way or the other.
First things first, we need to learn how to DO this stuff, to operate in deep space, physical and psychological effects, vehicle balance and propulsion, safety limits and procedures..
To be somewhat sarcastic about it, basically...
"Drivers Ed for Deep Space".
And I believe in it so strongly that I would voluntarily put my ass on the line, first in line, even knowing how damn risky it would be.
I'd totally fail the physical, I know, but fuck it, I'll sign a damn waiver of responsibility, besides, it's not like imma sue if I fall out an airlock or something... shit, I'd even quit smoking cause no air processor we could build is currently up to handling THAT anyways.
And why do I want it done so badly even knowing that I'll never see that end of it ?
Because when I look into the big blue eyes of my nieces, and within their words hear that same wrenching pain of a soul in torment that I have felt for my entire life, looking at the horror we have built and called a society... I'd really like to have something to offer them besides the fact that they were born, will live, and will die in a world in which their beliefs, their hearts, and compassion have no place, and never will.
And be damned if I wanna hand those two the future of MY failures - I will do *whatever* I must, to not condemn them to my own fate.
Deadly serious, I am about that.
-Frem
It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it
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You know a guy with your level of mechanical skills could do well on some south sea islands. The locals use 2 stroke engines on canoes but dont really understand how to maintain them. A man with mechanical knowledge and a semi reasonable toolkit can live a good life. Of course you'd have to barter for your services but pigs and goats are as good a hard currency as you could wish for. Zero government involvement, of course keeping a rifle handy would be a good idea but I think you'd probably enjoy that anyway.
You dont ahve to build a spaceship to get away from the "Man."
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Quote:It's not about worrying you'll sue, it's about the fact that it costs a bloody fortune to put a Human in space. It costs $300,000,000 to put the Space Shuttle in orbit, with a crew of 7. When you're sinking that much money into a project under the supervision of 7 people, you want those 7 to be the very best possible, because if one of them isn't up to the task, you've just wasted a shit load of money.
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
And I believe in it so strongly that I would voluntarily put my ass on the line, first in line, even knowing how damn risky it would be.
I'd totally fail the physical, I know, but fuck it, I'll sign a damn waiver of responsibility, besides, it's not like imma sue if I fall out an airlock or something... shit, I'd even quit smoking cause no air processor we could build is currently up to handling THAT anyways.
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.
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Quote:You didn’t strike any nerve. That’s just a narcissistic device you use to justify your delusions. Just like accusing anyone who doesn’t buy your crap, hook, line, and sinker as being facist (sic). I don’t even think you realize how silly you sound half the time. If you’d just think this stuff through before shooting your mouth off, you might not come across so silly.
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Wow, looks like I *did* strike a nerve, you puling facist whiner.
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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Meanwhile... apropos of how "good" we are Quote:
Didn't want Geezer to miss this.
Geezer, read up on Operation Phoenix and its predecessor Contre Coup. www.counterpunch.org/valentine.html When assassination and torture didn't work, we carpet-bombed, napalmed, and defoliated (and poisoned) en masse. Yeah, we were real good folks.
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Always look upstream.
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Quote:Doesn't seem so silly to me- but then maybe I'm just a silly person.
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
I don’t even think you realize how silly you sound half the time.
And yes Finn, even you come off silly sometimes (your cold-war ad hominems come right out of Firefox- but that's okay, it's one of my faves
).Tee hee Chrisisall
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