At precisely what point should we be alarmed at human rights violations?
POSTED BY: chrisisall
UPDATED: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 18:06
VIEWED: 6644
PAGE 11 of 12
Quote:Only a very comfortable person could say that.
Actually, you can be free wherever you are. Freedom is in your head, not your surroundings. Too many folk here think that their freedom depends on what some government does, thus giving up the power to choose to be free.
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Always look upstream.
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Quote:Absolutely Signy.
Originally posted by SignyM:
What I HOPE to do is wake people up to fact that there are people in government- people like Cheney and Hillary - who are thoroughly cynical, and only use words like "freedom" or "democracy" or "communism" or "terrorism" to manipulate. That they will shovel us into the maw of "profit health care"... or war... for nothing more than a few extra bucks.
The US has to stop BEING a business, and get back to being a country, with neighborhoods and families. Right now it seems like we're more like numbers for the powers that be to add and subtract at their whim.
Chrisisall
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Like I said, it's a war, bad shit happens - everybody does it, everybody denies it.
Splitting hairs over who did worse is idiotic, but not HALF as idiotic as having an unnecessary war in the first place, and who hired us as the planetary police force ?
Are we really qualified ?
Where does the US Constitution authorize using MY tax dollars to intervene for, or overthrow, foreign governments ?
Why should I give a damn about them when we got problems enough here ?
ASK.
THE.
RIGHT.
QUESTIONS.
-Frem
PS. "It costs $300,000,000 to put the Space Shuttle in orbit"
Only cause it's a government doing it, bet you could cut that by over 80% once you cut loose the graft, kickbacks, cost overruns and black-budget crap they slip in between the orders.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
What makes you think I don't ?
When not here or at work, I spend a good bit of time on it, although what I am mostly good at is sandbagging and exposing some pretty awful stuff to law enforcement, which as I said, does have it's uses, and I am active in local politics as well as having been up Conyers ass ever since meeting him at a rally for Howard Dean, before Dean bent over for the DNC/DLC... not to mention leaning on, and getting other folk to lean on, Dingell - Levin is a waste of time, bought and paid for by AIPAC, but Conyers is a key player especially given his position within House Judiciary, what with that resolution somehow not having been tabled and all...
I might not have money, but I do have the ability to get a lot of their constituents riled up at em very very quickly, and damned good intel on every dirty deed their competitors (and themselves) have ever done, just a matter of getting the arm applied without stickin my neck out for someone elses axe.
It's a nasty business, politics, and I don't care for it at all, but it's still better than a firefight, innit ?
-Frem
Good. That's more like it. I was afraid you'd just given up all together and were retreating into the good old survivalist 'after armageddon' mindset.
"Keep the Shiny side up"
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Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
The reason why I bring these nasty bits to the forum - as I've said before- is because most people mainly hear the "good stuff". They don't realize, or don't believe, or can't feel anything about the fact that we HAVE managed to kill millions- literally- of people around the world in the last six decades or so (not counting WWII or the Korean War).
Yet again, bull. You must never watch the news, or go to the library, or get a newspaper. This stuff is all over.
Quote:
People need to wake up, Geezer, and start thinking for themselves about their interests, and whether the path our fearless leaders have chosen is the one that will really get us where most of us want to go: A decent job, nice neighborhood, good education, security for the future, and freedom.
Well, Duh. Then talk about that stuff. Rehashing the Vietnam war is pointless. It isn't gonna do much about getting that job, neighborhood, education, etc. Maybe discuss one thing positive that folk are doing and others could build on. We're aware that there are problems. Don't bash us in the head with them until we just give up. Find a point of good and let others know about it. Quit being so goddamn gloomy.
"Keep the Shiny side up"
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Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:Quote:Only a very comfortable person could say that.
Actually, you can be free wherever you are. Freedom is in your head, not your surroundings. Too many folk here think that their freedom depends on what some government does, thus giving up the power to choose to be free.
Pretty much. Anybody with the sense God (metaphorically) gave a cockroach and an appreciation of the Golden Rule can be free to do pretty whatever they want in the good old USA, if they just apply a little thought to it. The fact that so many folk can't manage this makes me dispair, sometimes.
"Keep the Shiny side up"
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"Don't bash us"
Hmmmmm, trying to set up an 'us vs them' dynamic between SignyM and everyone else ? You might possibly aim that at me and be successful, but it's not going to work with SignyM.
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Just so you know.
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Quote:So what should our response be to having killed more than 2 million people? Oops! *shrug* Oh, well. ?
Well, Duh. Then talk about that stuff. Rehashing the Vietnam war is pointless. It isn't gonna do much about getting that job, neighborhood, education, etc. Maybe discuss one thing positive that folk are doing and others could build on. We're aware that there are problems. Don't bash us in the head with them until we just give up. Find a point of good and let others know about it. Quit being so goddamn gloomy.
Whatever happened to learning from history? The biggest thing standing between us (and I don't mean the parochial "in the good old USA" us- I mean about 95+% of the world) and the future we want is ... us. The only way to get "there" from "here" is by changing minds. IF we can't even acknowledge our self-created problems, how can we possibly hope to fix them?
AFA the USA is concerned, it's hard to make a positive change when half of our budget goes to war and debt.
---------------------------------
Always look upstream.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:
Actually, you can be free wherever you are. Freedom is in your head, not your surroundings. Too many folk here think that their freedom depends on what some government does, thus giving up the power to choose to be free.
"Keep the Shiny side up"
Hello,
That's very zen, but I can't think of anyone who would prefer to be free in a jail cell, as opposed to being free in their living room.
--Anthony
"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner
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Yes, but most of the folks here who are voicing concerns about the rights erosions we perceive are doing so from the 'freedom' of our living room (or at least our 'spare room with the computer').
Hopefully, I'll continue to be able to do so ;-)
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