I feel sad for the Firefly fans here that can't/won't get into Buffy...
POSTED BY: chrisisall
UPDATED: Thursday, September 27, 2007 00:24
VIEWED: 10453
PAGE 4 of 7
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Originally posted by jwhedonaddict:
To each his own, I guess...
but the part about it being "less about making brutally hard decisions and learning from them"? Ummm, what show were you actually watching? Isn't that what growing up is pretty much about? The beginning of that? I, for one, think she made some pretty huge brutally hard decisions, two of them being at the ends of Season 2 and 5. What about the one she would have made (if Anya and D'Hoffryn had not stepped in) at the end of "Selfless" in Season 7?...
I realize Buffy was about female empowerment and all, and that Angel was more male-oriented, but guess what? I NEVER felt left out. I personally relate a lot to the characters, especially Angel and Wes.
But, to each his (or her) own.
Addict, like I said, I only gave Buffy half a chance. I've seen a handful of episodes, mostly because of my brother-in-law. So I have no frame of reference for the specific episodes you mentioned.
As for brutal choices, in the episodes I saw, Buffy's choices mostly came down to "Go try to kill this thing and risk your life, or else lots of people you care about, and possibly countless other thousands, will die, be enslaved, etc." That isn't much of a choice. As for growing up being about making "brutally hard choices," I'd say unless you're growing up in some war-torn wasteland, very few of us have "brutal" choices to make during our upbringing or adolescence. And I'm not just saying this in hindsight; maybe I'm just an old soul, but I knew even at 16 that nobody was going to die if I didn't ask this girl to the prom. (Which I didn't, and for all the WRONG reasons, but it was the best decision I've made, since due to the cosmic chain reaction we call 'life,' not doing so put me in place to fall in love with and marry my wife, which was, in turn, the BEST decision I've made, and for all the RIGHT reasons... But I digress...)
Maybe there is more morally gray content in Buffy, and maybe it is in the episodes you mentioned, but I haven't seen it, and the episodes I did see never left me dying for more, didn't draw me up to those points you mentioned. The time and effort put into the romantic relationships was wearying to me, a barrier to further involvement with the show. And don't get me wrong, it isn't that love relationships in shows bother me. The Mal/Inara relationship produced some of the most rewarding moments in Firefly (and for any of you who are reluctant to characterize their relationship as a love/romantic relationship, just re-watch the moment when Mal urges Inara to leave during the Reaver threat in "Serenity," the way he lightly touches her shoulder as he says her name... That moment says it all, and it was meant to.). I don't feel that any of the romantic misadventures of Buffy and crew were ever portrayed with that level of maturity or heart; I had trouble feeling sympathetic for the characters involved. Again, though, my emotional experiences are not what that show was meant to resonate with, and I am fine with that. I'm glad Buffy was/is out there dealing with different themes for a different audience, and of course any intellignetly written show is going to draw from other audiences as well. I hear that Buffy seasons are down to something like $12 on Amazon, or some such, and as a result I've been thinking about giving it another, better chance, now that I have a greater appreciation for Joss. I'm not sure that will change my mind, though, and unless it does, I'm going to have to stay firm in my opinion that Buffy is not for everybody, and not for me.
(And though I may joke otherwise, as a writer I can't believe that Firefly is for everybody either. If you've ever written something that "everyone can enjoy" then you've probably written something so tepid in its themes that it isn't really SPEAKING to anybody.)
"When you can't do somethin' smart, do somethin' right!" -Jayne Cobb quotes Shepherd Book
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FINALLY!! Someone besides me that liked the movie but not the series. Thank-you SchoolboysWink! And I agree the movie wasn't meant to be taken seriously. it was a perfect example of a B-movie.
I'm with Monksdad too, Sarah Michelle Geller gives me a serious case of shut-the-tv-off-now. I find her neither talented nor particularily fetching.
Now I didn't mind Angel and I'm a fan of Vampire and Were-wolf movies so I guess I don't fall into the mold. So, I did give it a chance while it was on TV, and I don't begrudge anyone liking it.
Joss makes something for everyone and I think in doing that, draws people together mindless of their varying tastes.
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"Got a headful of lightning
And a heart full of rain
And I know that I said
I'd never do it again
Oh and I love you sweet baby but I always take the long way home."
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Quote:
Originally posted by safeat2nd:
FINALLY!! Someone besides me that liked the movie but not the series. Thank-you SchoolboysWink! And I agree the movie wasn't meant to be taken seriously. it was a perfect example of a B-movie.
Agreed. I actually liked Kristy Swnson's portrayal better. And hey, Paul Ruebens death scene? So freaken funny.
Quote:
I'm with Monksdad too, Sarah Michelle Geller gives me a serious case of shut-the-tv-off-now. I find her neither talented nor particularily fetching.
Agreed. The first time I mentioned this here I got a... rather chilly reception. Fingernails on a chalk board to me. And not just her, just the whole cast rubbed me wrong.
Quote:
Joss makes something for everyone and I think in doing that, draws people together mindless of their varying tastes.
Hey I think I mentioned that. Nice to see some agree here. We're a diverse group who arent always going to like the same things and agree, but at least some things we can and well.... well that's somethin'
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HEROES IS MY CRACK!
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Quote:
Originally posted by safeat2nd:
And I agree the movie wasn't meant to be taken seriously. it was a perfect example of a B-movie.
It wasn't meant to be taken seriously by the director, who "raped" Joss's original vision for the movie by saying the movie was "a pop-culture movie about what people THINK about vampires" or something like that. The bottom line, the director, Fran Kuzui, is an ass, IMHO, and should NEVER be allowed to direct anything EVER again!!!!
Thankfully, Joss got his dream back and he shared it with us!!!
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"They talk about me in the chatty rooms?"--Angel
"I'm 1120 years old. Just give me a frigging beer!"--Anya
"All I had to do is want it bad enough...and guess what I want to do now, you prissy son of a bitch?"--Spike
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As much as I don't care for SMG as a person, (I think she's a big phony), I can't deny that she's a good actress and was right for Buffy.
***********************************************
"They talk about me in the chatty rooms?"--Angel
"I'm 1120 years old. Just give me a frigging beer!"--Anya
"All I had to do is want it bad enough...and guess what I want to do now, you prissy son of a bitch?"--Spike For Joss!
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Quote:
It wasn't meant to be taken seriously by the director, who "raped" Joss's original vision for the movie
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Whoa, harsh. Bottom line for me, I'll take the movie over the show. Don't expect EVERYONE to like every thing Joss did. That's narrow thinking.
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
~Peter*Peter*Power>~re-peater~
HEROES IS MY CRACK!
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
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You misinterpreted my meaning (AGAIN). It wasn't said in response to everyone else's opinion. I don't expect that, just don't understand ANYONE not liking Buffy or Angel. And I was simply expressing the same opinion I've had about the director for YEARS now. I've said virtually the same thing before. Nothing to do with anyone here.
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"They talk about me in the chatty rooms?"--Angel
"I'm 1120 years old. Just give me a frigging beer!"--Anya
"All I had to do is want it bad enough...and guess what I want to do now, you prissy son of a bitch?"--Spike For Joss!
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Quote:
Originally posted by Misstressahara:
That's narrow thinking.
Ummm...it's "narrow" thinking to not understand why anyone wouldn't like either of those shows?
But it's open-minded to not understand anyone that does like them, as you feel?
Whatever.
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"They talk about me in the chatty rooms?"--Angel
"I'm 1120 years old. Just give me a frigging beer!"--Anya
"All I had to do is want it bad enough...and guess what I want to do now, you prissy son of a bitch?"--Spike
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Quote:
Originally posted by Misstressahara:Quote:
It wasn't meant to be taken seriously by the director, who "raped" Joss's original vision for the movie
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Whoa, harsh.
that's what happened though, it's documented fact...
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Quote:
Originally posted by jwhedonaddict:Quote:
Originally posted by Misstressahara:
That's narrow thinking.
Ummm...it's "narrow" thinking to not understand why anyone wouldn't like either of those shows?
But it's open-minded to not understand anyone that does like them, as you feel?
Whatever.
Now, now, hang on a second. I don't remember Mistressahara in particular, or any of the non-Buffy-fans who've posted here in general, stating that we "don't understand anybody that does like" Buffy or Angel. I think those that aren't so crazy about the show/s have been reasonably respectful in stating their cases for why they, personally, did not like the shows, but not bashing them or acting as though nobody should like them, or that they were inherently "BAD," or anything like that. I think it's been a pretty friendly and rational debate so far, and I'm enjoying it. Personally, I apologize to the Buffy fans if anything I said could have been misconstrued as bashing the show or implying that their opinion of liking it was in any way "wrong."
"When you can't do somethin' smart, do somethin' right!" -Jayne Cobb quotes Shepherd Book
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