Mal and Zoe
POSTED BY: paintitblack
UPDATED: Sunday, November 25, 2007 12:14
VIEWED: 20987
PAGE 4 of 8
*lays topic to rest--* wait, comic book? what?
__________________________
Have you ever wondered why in a dream you can touch a falling sky?
Or fly to the heavens that watch over you?
"I am a leaf on the wind, watch how I soar."
A man is least himself when he speaks in his own person. Give him a mask and he will show you his true self.
You can't take the sky from me...
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The graphic novel? (comic book), "Those Left Behind" Wash confronts Mal on what an "unhealthsome" gig the new job is. And how stupid women make them.
Check it out
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wow, never knew that existed. *is dazed*
__________________________
Have you ever wondered why in a dream you can touch a falling sky?
Or fly to the heavens that watch over you?
"I am a leaf on the wind, watch how I soar."
A man is least himself when he speaks in his own person. Give him a mask and he will show you his true self.
You can't take the sky from me...
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The relationship between these two, for me, is just so glaringly platonic that I can't read Mal/Zoe stories (like slumming's "Shoulder to Shoulder," the reason I came back to this thread in the first place). I just can't, because there isn't anything in canon which even hints at it. I feel Joss and co. really went out of their way, with big flashing neon lights and all, to say "this relationship is not sexual."
They poked fun at it with Zoe's "you'll scare the women" line, but part of the reason their relationship is the way it is has to do with the fact that I don't think Mal sees her as a woman. I mean, he knows that she is a woman, but he sees her more as a soldier. Even Jayne recognizes that she's attractive without losing sight of her ability to kick his ass; but, it's not on Mal's radar. And, if she were to ever become pregnant it would throw him for a loop ("Zoe can get pregnant? What?"). As much as I don't like the "Zoe is pregnant with Wash's child" post-BDM storyline, I think it would be really funny, and eye-opening for Mal.
In any event, I really don't see Zoe reciprocating his feelings, if he ever had any, once, a long time ago (which I don't think he did).
Quote:
They were the only two from their whatever of 35 (I am not a military person so no idea what they call it), but at the same time Zoe did say there were 150 survivors under his command in the end. What happened to them? Why did they not stick around? Were there no emotional attachments with any of them? These are my driving question. They can be answered in many ways.
I think it's implied that they've been together for most of the war, so they had a bond that went beyond Serenity Valley which most of the others likely didn't have (what are the odds, really?). I always had it in my head that at one point way back Zoe had rank on Mal, but because he did well as a leader he was eventually promoted above her (I don't think they were ever of equal rank).
But, then again, we do see a little bit of an emotional bond they had with another veteran in "The Message" with Tracey. There are plenty of other saps in the 'verse, so they must have left a lasting impression for him to take the effort to seek them out specifically. On the other hand, it may have just worked well for his plans, because they were unknown to his employers, whereas others he might have been able to dupe weren't.
The reason why I think Zoe stayed with Mal beyond the war? She didn't feel any obligation to pay him back for anything, but he needed her and they had a strong bond. I think it was especially important after the war that he have her right there still, this constant strength and buffer during his crisis of faith (and I don't just mean religious). She was the anchor in the storm, and the fact that she could keep going helped him keep going. Now, I think he has the drive to keep going as long as he has Serenity, but I don't think he would have had that "we're still flying; it's enough" attitude without Zoe.
I could see Mal sort of casually trying to convince her to stay, though - "Kinda seems we're in a similar situation [there's no indication that she has anywhere to go back to, either]. Might be we'd work well together." Of course, there's so much subtext there - he probably wouldn't want to admit that he needed her (if he was even aware of it) - and it wouldn't have been reason enough for Zoe to stay with him. Or, conversely, I could see Zoe saying, "Don't have anything lined up. Maybe I'll stay with you 'till something better comes along." Not that she would have looked for something better. And, having them both approach the situation casually is just a way for them not to have to directly acknowledge their bond, partly because they don't need to. It's just magic.
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(Rules for voting - http://fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=2&t=30747&m=542683)
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Quote:
Originally posted by yinyang:
They poked fun at it with Zoe's "you'll scare the women" line, but part of the reason their relationship is the way it is has to do with the fact that I don't think Mal sees her as a woman. I mean, he knows that she is a woman, but he sees her more as a soldier. Even Jayne recognizes that she's attractive without losing sight of her ability to kick his ass; but, it's not on Mal's radar. And, if she were to ever become pregnant it would throw him for a loop ("Zoe can get pregnant? What?"). As much as I don't like the "Zoe is pregnant with Wash's child" post-BDM storyline, I think it would be really funny, and eye-opening for Mal.
This is most probably true. This has happened to me many times with male friends who were too familiar. Although I do wear skirts and girly stuff, somehow the thought that I too am a girl does not register in their thick brains.
I think Mal and Zoe have the "work-wife/husband" relationship. It doesn't mean that they are romantically or sexually involved, but rather, they have the camaraderie and mutual admiration for each other's strengths. In their time in the war, they have probably developed a working relationship that was comfortable and efficient, and in reality, if you've found a friendship like that, would you let go? Those things come rarely. To put it dramatically, in the ugliness of war, friendship and loyalty are probably the only thing to place your hope on. (I just remembered that line from Band of Brothers when they said that they don't care how awful the battle will be, long as the person beside them is a paratrooper... but I digress.)
Though of course, you can't form the relationship by jumping in the middle and saying "I depend on you, we're friends forever." unless you're in the 3rd grade. At one time, it probably crossed both their minds that "Hey, here is a person who understands me and cares for me and he/she's hell to look at. Maybe we could...NAH!" (maybe they would throw up a little in their mouths for having such thoughts too.) Thing is, it's not what you feel that matters, but what you decide to do with it. In time, they've settled into their comfortable roles: Mal as the natural leader, and Zoe as his Yes-woman. When the war ended, those roles held as a matter of fact, like the natural progression of things (I'm thinking it's because Mal went to buy the ship and when he told Zoe about it, she decided right there and then to join him despite her uncertainties to this plan so as to make sure he's gonna be ok. Almost like an older sister.)
Actually, this facet of Mal and Zoe I would really like to explore, but unfortunately I suck at writing fanfic (I can never make the crew sound like themselves. So I have much respect to those who can), so can anyone write a Mal/Zoe for me?
Also: Can anyone tell me Zoe's rank? In the "The Message" she addressed Tracey as "Private", which implies she had a higher rank than him.
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
I don't know what I'm saying. I never know what I'm saying.... -River Tam, Serenity (2005)
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Quote:
Originally posted by yinyang:
The relationship between these two, for me, is just so glaringly platonic that I can't read Mal/Zoe stories
y'know i am all for character exploration - sometimes a writer is just following a plausible line of enquiry... BUT i finally found a personal line i can't cross with mal/zoe and i AGREE COMPLETELY!
the only physicality i can possiblity imagine would be some callow -- possibily drunk - foolishness on a young mal's part which would have been rapidly rebuffed!!
Mal is posessive of zoe but the motive aint sexual.
great post yin yang - nice follow thru bulletinthebrainpan!:)
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I have to admit that Zoe was one of the last characters I genuinely liked. I have no favorite quotes from her, albeit that could be the tone and her deadpan delivery, which makes it hard to convey on paper. But it's b/c all the other characters are clearly having problems. Zoe is (for the most part) happily married and is the epitome of loyalty. She and Mal don't argue, trust each other sooo much that it's easy to look at Simon and River b/c of their huge problems.
Another thought: I think one of Wash's problems with Zoe/Mal is that "most people don't get Zoe and me." It's a lot to do with insecurity because he is sensitive about that. He knows Zoe loves him, she knows he loves her, but Mal is handsome and strong, Zoe's beautiful and strong = pretty couple. Wash looks goofy, IS goofy, loves her with the firy passion of a thousand suns, BUT they are just one of those unikely couples. Wash's fears are relieved by the end of "War Stories", but I'm sure he was still touchy, b/c he knows he's not physically hero material.
Hope that all makes sense. Great discussion, by the way! :)
K
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I suggest reading mal4prez's "Backstories" fanfic.
She is writing a fascinating platonic (so far) look at the moments that bond Mal and Zoe. It's DEEP and LAYERED and all that, but the voices and dialog flow with validation. No question about it, it's Mal and Zoe talk'in.
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Yin Yang and Bulletinthebrainpansquish both hit the nail on the head on Mal and Zoe's relationship.
Older sister, foxhole comrade, working partner, Yes man, and first mate, Zoe is all of that to Mal. He'd be lost without her but a sexual relationship NO WAY!
http://fireflyfaninnc.livejournal.com/
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Mal must consider Zoe to be like a brother, or maybe sister. Like Brothers-In-Arms. Out of 330,000 Browncoats in Serenity Valley, only 150 survived and she the only one of her squad - that's a lot to go through, and Mal doesn't need anything else from her but what she provides. Loyalty, work, reliability, marksmanship, and comrade (as in friend).
Wash was spending tooooo much time with the drama of handpuppets and dinosaurland. People who watch too much soap operas start to actually think like that.
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