Mal and Zoe

POSTED BY: paintitblack
UPDATED: Sunday, November 25, 2007 12:14
VIEWED: 20987
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NBZ

Saturday, September 1, 2007 11:51 PM

I really want to see a split between Mal and Zoe. Just because it is a strong bond. The only way to test how strong is to apply some force.

It is also a good arc. Start off with Zoe being the right side of Mal's brain. later on show the differences.

For some reason I always end up breaking "shatterproof" rulers.

VETERAN

Sunday, September 2, 2007 1:59 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by RiveR6213:
Zoe follows Mal because she trusts his judgment; she has faith in his decisions for the most part because his judgement and decision making saved her ass in too many rough situations....

I don't know about this, I forget the episode but Zoe and Kaylee had the following exchange....

"Zoe: Captain'll come up with a plan.
Kaylee: Well, that's good... right?
Zoe: Possibly you're not recalling some of his previous plans."

Definitely not a vote of confidence. Zoe follows Mal because of the bond that was forged as they got through the war (especially Serenity Valley).

RIVER6213

Sunday, September 2, 2007 3:03 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Veteran:
Quote:
Originally posted by RiveR6213:
Zoe follows Mal because she trusts his judgment; she has faith in his decisions for the most part because his judgement and decision making saved her ass in too many rough situations....

I don't know about this, I forget the episode but Zoe and Kaylee had the following exchange....

"Zoe: Captain'll come up with a plan.
Kaylee: Well, that's good... right?
Zoe: Possibly you're not recalling some of his previous plans."

Definitely not a vote of confidence. Zoe follows Mal because of the bond that was forged as they got through the war (especially Serenity Valley).

True, but I also think that it is because Mal is a VERY motivated fighter, and he is without a doubt a leader with all the qualities that a leader has. Basically he's a natural born leader which is why Zoe follows him. Mal isn't the smartest leader but he knows how to get things done. Case in point is the Kirk Spock relationship. Spock is without a doubt smarter than Kirk, but Kirk has some serious leadership qualities that Spock lacks. In the grand scheme of things Kirk would survive and Spock would die, but you put them together and they both survive by filling in the gapes that they both lack. The same goes for Mal and Zoe.

-River

SCHOOLBOYSWINK

Sunday, September 2, 2007 9:48 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by RiveR6213:
Case in point is the Kirk Spock relationship.

Comparing Firefly characters to Star Trek characters makes my brain cry. Meaning that in fun, of course. (Still meaning it, but still, all in fun.)

I'm not sure there is a great secret as to why Zoe continued to follow Mal. Maybe there is (that is up to Joss), but I always believed it was primarily because neither of them had any home or family left to go to. That solution makes sense, and as a firm beliver in Ockham's Razor, I figure that is most likely the reason.

As for Mal being characterized as not being too bright, I think we often don't give Mal enough credit. Usually his plans would have gone off without a hitch were it not for some unforeseen complication. (e.g., a train car full of feds, which in itself still would not have prevented the success of the job, but a town full of sick miners did) Mal's big failing in the planning realm, to my mind, was that he always failed to make a back-up plan, something he usually would not have had the luxury of in the war, where he learned his planning skills. He did learn initiative and the ability to improvise (note that in both war flashbacks in the show, he winds up taking over the responsibilities of a neutralized superior, commissioned, officer), which is why even when his plans fail he gets his crew back alive. (It is refreshing to see a main hero that is not necessarily smarter, faster, more skilled, or otherwise "better" than the other characters, that just excels out of pure toughness and force of personality, but that is another post...) That said, I think Zoe is justified in continuing to follow Mal, whatever is her own motivation in not striking out on her own.

I've heard it said (in a book series by A.A. Attanasio) that there is a goal, a purpose, to be found on this earth, one that is of a kind of goodness denied even to God: To serve a worthy master. Maybe this is what Zoe is looking for.

"When you can't do somethin' smart, do somethin' right!" -Jayne Cobb quotes Shepherd Book

WYTCHCROFT

Sunday, September 2, 2007 9:56 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SchoolboysWink:

As for Mal being characterized as not being too bright, I think we often don't give Mal enough credit.

agreed.

Quote:
Mal's big failing in the planning realm, to my mind, was that he always failed to make a back-up plan, something he usually would not have had the luxury of in the war, where he learned his planning skills.

absolutely!

Quote:
(It is refreshing to see a main hero that is not necessarily smarter, faster, more skilled, or otherwise "better" than the other characters, that just excels out of pure toughness and force of personality, but that is another post...)

agreed once more - and a post you should start my friend.

Just to add that Mal's emotional complexity (tho' easily overstated) and resourcefulness also lift him out of the ranks of potential bullly-boy, thick neck hero no-brainers... that litter action genre pieces - where intelligence equals villainy.

SCHOOLBOYSWINK

Sunday, September 2, 2007 10:03 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by wytchcroft:
Just to add that Mal's emotional complexity (tho' easily overstated) and resourcefulness also lift him out of the ranks of potential bullly-boy, thick neck hero no-brainers... that litter action genre pieces - where intelligence equals villainy.

I agree that Mal's emotional complexity can be easily, and often is, overstated. I think the last thing Joss (or Mal) would want is for any of us Browncoats to perceive Mal as "angsty" or...dare I say it...emo.

And after all, understated is Joss's stock in trade. There are always things about the plots and characters that ARE in your face, but it is the understated layers that make the show SING, even to people who don't consciously realize they are in there. They just strike a chord, somehow, even if it is only subconsciously.

"When you can't do somethin' smart, do somethin' right!" -Jayne Cobb quotes Shepherd Book

WYTCHCROFT

Sunday, September 2, 2007 10:08 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SchoolboysWink:

And after all, understated is Joss's stock in trade. There are always things about the plots and characters that ARE in your face, but it is the understated layers that make the show SING,

and why Fillion is such a soul find for him - Fillion can suggest so much - so many BIG moments (and character insights) hinge on the TINIEST shifts in his eyes etc

which is a bitch for a fic writer!

have you seen drive? he was a must for that show too - aches of back story in a single glance.
Not much comedy there of course!

NBZ

Sunday, September 2, 2007 10:15 PM

Alex Tully WAS Malcolm Reynolds though.

"You wanna meet the REAL me?" Vs "You wanna meet the real Alex Tully?"

Planning wise Mal does seem to go for the more direct approach.

Imagined scenario:

Zoe: So, you want to walk in through the front?
Mal: Yes.
Wash: But what about the part that we all it's an ambush?
Mal: They won't expect it. Come on Zo, it'll be fun!

which does work. After all who else would walk right into a known ambush? It is his forte. (In the Pilot episode he walks into Patience's trap. In the BDM into the Operative's. Both times knowing the score.)

WYTCHCROFT

Sunday, September 2, 2007 10:24 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by nbz:
Alex Tully WAS Malcolm Reynolds though.

"You wanna meet the REAL me?" Vs "You wanna meet the real Alex Tully?"

i dunno... his body language made him seem different to me.

Quote:
Planning wise Mal does seem to go for the more direct approach...
which does work. After all who else would walk right into a known ambush? It is his forte.

Definitely! LOL

I've played with the idea that it's some kind of post-serenity valley death wish (and it MIGHT be, so post-BDM he might lose this)
but, honestly?, i think it's just his perverse and hornery nature. no shifting.

NBZ

Sunday, September 2, 2007 10:32 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by wytchcroft:
Quote:
Originally posted by nbz:
Alex Tully WAS Malcolm Reynolds though.

"You wanna meet the REAL me?" Vs "You wanna meet the real Alex Tully?"

i dunno... his body language made him seem different to me.

He had two differing poses. One was the stooped one, which he started with (The "Alex tully from hasting Nebraska"). Later he got more "bad ass", closer to Malcolm Reynolds IMO (the Alex Tully who was an ex-getaway driver).

Quote:

Quote:
Planning wise Mal does seem to go for the more direct approach...
which does work. After all who else would walk right into a known ambush? It is his forte.

Definitely! LOL

I've played with the idea that it's some kind of post-serenity valley death wish (and it MIGHT be, so post-BDM he might lose this)
but, honestly?, i think it's just his perverse and hornery nature. no shifting.

There is some stubbornness as well. "You gonna set a trap for me? Well, I will walk right in, and still walk back out". Then there is the thing no one really expects you to walk straight into a trap.

It also leaves the most flexibility to what can be done. Does he have a death wish? I doubt it. (though it is possible - Zoe wears body armour. Does he?)

An opposing view - Does he consider himself invincible? invincible as in he will not (be allowed to) die until he has faced every other misery imagineable, and all the crew is dead?

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