Mal and Zoe
POSTED BY: paintitblack
UPDATED: Sunday, November 25, 2007 12:14
VIEWED: 20987
PAGE 3 of 8
Survival is what Mal DOES. His toughness is what gets him through. Everything else has been taken from him, but he has sworn that his life is HIS and nobody will tell him how to live it or take it from him. Just look at what he goes through in Out of Gas, simply because the man doesn't know how to die.
Also let us not forget: "We have done the impossible, and that makes us mighty." He knows that the troops didn't LOSE Serenity Valley, the higher ups just QUIT it. He came through that, so what does all this seem to him?
At the same time, he knows it is the people around him that keep him flying (see Out of Gas, Our Mrs. Reynolds, War Stories), and he relies on them and at the same time gives them the devotion they deserve (see War Stories (how he kept Wash alive) and Safe), even when he is bossing them around. Imagine that power, having that level of confidence in yourself but still believing in those around you. THAT is mighty.
"When you can't do somethin' smart, do somethin' right!" -Jayne Cobb quotes Shepherd Book
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbz:
An opposing view - Does he consider himself invincible? invincible as in he will not (be allowed to) die until he has faced every other misery imagineable, and all the crew is dead?
interesting notion - like jeff bridges in fearless.
side bar - god, bridges would be great in the 'verse...
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Quote:My take is that he doesn't particularly care. I mean, I don't think he wants to die, but life isn't so very precious to him as it is to most people. And like schoolboyswink says, more than anything Mal means to do his own business his way. Like: Death? Whatever. Seen it. Seen it plenty, and if it's comin' my way I ain't gonna bother steppin' aside. It takes me or it don't. Meantime, I got things to do.
Originally posted by nbz:
An opposing view - Does he consider himself invincible?
But I think he's more likely to cling to life if he knows folks are depending on him. Such as OoG. He was fighting for 9 lives there, not just his own.
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hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left
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Yeah, I see what you mean. In a deleted scene on Serenity (not sure if it is on the DVD, but I saw it in the original "pitch" version where Joss pitched the show to Fox. before a multitude of changes (Some I agree with, others not so much).), Mal was pissed of at the job with patience because he was gonna get shot. And getting shot was painful. He did not seem to concerned with him potentially ending up dead. Of course this works for both arguments.
One other stall I would like to lay out is the possibility that Zoe did NOT follow Mal due to closeness in the war.
(WHAT?!?!? That is surely Madness!)
And what evidence do I have for such a ridiculous notion? absolutely nothing.
There would have been a ton of survivors from the War. What made Mal special? After all he was her sergeant - and once the war was over, that link is broken. There does not seem to be a group of people who stayed together either, just the two.
One of the reasons she followed him IMO is because he had a plan. Mal always has a plan. Doesn't have to be too bright, but the very existence of one, well that is something.
To support my argument, I will quote myself (from another forums - and yes I am full of it!)
Quote:
Mal - He done right by her. Gave her a life (she is a spacer, he is not), a home (Serenity). He found her a husband (Wash obviously) and a family (Kaylee). He makes his mistakes (Bester, Jayne), but then again so does everybody. Probably could have done better without him, or not, but she did not have to try. Not something she needs to ponder over as she likes her life.
(Notice I did not mention the war?)
and I got the wanted question ("Yes, I noticed - how's come? Too easy?... Does one owe the other something? Maybe even secracy for a bad act? ") allowing me to continue unabated.
Quote:
She does not "Owe" him any debt from the war.
However they were friendly. and afterwards he did not try to take advantage of her.
Besides I do not like the concept of indebted grattitude. 'He saved me in the war. Now I must follow him.'
She lets him make the hard decisions. (In Serenity, the Pilot I am of the opinion Mal was always gonna end Dobson. Only other with the same notion was Jayne. He kept his mouth shut and was eventually forced to end him. Or so he thought...)
She is loyal to him because she generally agrees, and when she don't, he only takes part if she is in.
(taken from http://stillflying.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=613 )
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Quote:You crazy thing! What the heck are you thinking?? LOL!
Originally posted by nbz:
One other stall I would like to lay out is the possibility that Zoe did NOT follow Mal due to closeness in the war.
(WHAT?!?!? That is surely Madness!)
Interesting idea, actually. A refreshing take... but I must partly disagree. I don't think it fits canon. Mal and Zoe share too much war angst, and it's just the two of them nowadays because they are the only two of their brigade or whatever who survived Serenity Valley
I can see that she depended on Mal's decisiveness after the war, that she'd gotten used to a role as follower. Thing is (to be a prig about canon LOL!) they didn't get Serenity until a few years after the war. And she wasn't exactly yippy-ya-hoo! about it. She was there for Mal already, with none of the goodies of Wash and the crew to make her happy yet.
But I'm with you that she's not so much indebted to Mal. I don't think she feels she *has* to follow him. I think she made a deliberate choice about it. And, as close as they are, she doesn't worship him. She'll tell him off (in her own way) if need be.
As for what the root of their bond is... well, I think surviving Serenity Valley could be enough. The shared experience. But hell, that story is told and that's no fun for fic writers LOL! If we're going to demand more, a bond formed before that, I have a suggestion. But I'm not telling because it's Chapter 11 of my current fic.
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hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left
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It is (good) food for thought. IMO it can be made to fit cannon, but it is not an easy task. and I doubt it would ever be popular. I like being different.
They were the only two from their whatever of 35 (I am not a military person so no idea what they call it), but at the same time Zoe did say there were 150 survivors under his command in the end. What happened to them? Why did they not stick around? Were there no emotional attachments with any of them? These are my driving question. They can be answered in many ways.
Looking forward to reading your chapter 11 to see what you have planned. (just don't forget the 6 beforehand - I am interested in them too!)
This time immediately after defeat is immensely interesting. I don't think I will ever tire over reading different takes.
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Surviving hell brings a bond that is not describable. I think Mal and Zoe have a very deep completely non sexual bond. They were there. No one else was and it's hard to put into exact words what that means unless you've been there yourself. I don't think Wash has any cause for worry. I think that was his insecurity talking but that being a similar situation with Mal showed him what that bond felt like and then he was fine:)
"I'm not all that interested in the mental health of people who want to kill me. "- Leroy Jethro Gibbs
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Quote:
Originally posted by msg:
Surviving hell brings a bond that is not describable. I think Mal and Zoe have a very deep completely non sexual bond. They were there. No one else was...
From the crew. There would have been a lot of other survivors too. 150 under Mal's command alone.
Yup I agree about it being platonic, but for added reasons to what we normally get.
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Quote:
Originally posted by msg:
Surviving hell brings a bond that is not describable.
PLEASE read the kaylee thread - i'm interested in your views re: Early and the effect on the bond between K and Mal...
stay shiny!
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I don't think there is anything "unresolved" between Mal and Zoe, regardless of whether or not they ever did it. They've been threw hell and back together. They know what each other is all about. There are no discoveries or mysteries to be had. They've seen each other at their best and at their worst, as War Stories showed Wash.
And any unresolved sexual tension vibe that Wash was tuning into coming from Mal was from Mal and Inara, which Wash realizes in the comic book. Which of course, Zoe and Kaylee picked up on even before Inara signed the freakin lease agreement.
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