Mal and Zoe

POSTED BY: paintitblack
UPDATED: Sunday, November 25, 2007 12:14
VIEWED: 20987
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PAINTITBLACK

Sunday, June 3, 2007 6:34 AM

I love the fact that Joss creates strong platonic relationships between men and women but....

Is Wash right to be worried about the strong bond between Mal and Zoe?

Were they ever involved romantically?

And if not, is Wash correct when he says in War Stories that it is more of a threat that they weren't and there may be some unresolved issues between them?

RIVERGIRL

Sunday, June 3, 2007 11:46 AM

no

no

no

Also, I can kill you with my brain.

AGENTROUKA

Sunday, June 3, 2007 12:50 PM

I don't think so.

If anything had happened in the past, Zoe would have told Wash, I'm sure. It would be much easier to soothe Wash's fears with a story of why they broke up, after all, than lie to him about something like this.

And I don't think there is something to be worried about. We've never been shown even a moment of sexual tension between them, and they were awfully light-hearted about their teasing pretend-kiss at the end of "War Stories".

They're blunt and honest with each other, in good ways and bad, so if there had ever been an interest, I think it would have been voiced, because tension between them would harm their machine-like team work and mess with their mutual trust.

That, and I think it'd just be a shame to ruin the platonic relationship between them, from a writerly perspective. Their bond transcends gender. It's not sexual, not romantic, not quite family. Two people who's souls bonded because they survived hell together. A great team. Unique on tv and thus refreshing and beautiful.

PAINTITBLACK

Sunday, June 3, 2007 9:48 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AgentRouka:
I don't think so.

They're blunt and honest with each other, in good ways and bad, so if there had ever been an interest, I think it would have been voiced, because tension between them would harm their machine-like team work and mess with their mutual trust.

That, and I think it'd just be a shame to ruin the platonic relationship between them, from a writerly perspective. Their bond transcends gender. It's not sexual, not romantic, not quite family. Two people who's souls bonded because they survived hell together. A great team. Unique on tv and thus refreshing and beautiful.

Wonderfully put. I think so too, but then I totally understood Wash when he said that he would have preferred if Zoe and Mal had been together at some stage.
I can see why Wash would feel sensitive about their relationship, but its true, I couldnt see Zoe lying about it if it had happened.
Although she does try to protect Wash's feelings sometimes.....

NBZ

Sunday, June 3, 2007 11:38 PM

The fact that on jobs there is entirely the chance Zoe will play as Mal's wife (as in The Train Job) must be especially grating - even if Wash not the jealous type.

The fact that people buy Mal and Zoe (probably more than Zoe and Wash) in a relationship must be a hard pill to swallow.

For what it's worth, I never questioned Zoe being a second in command to Mal 'til I read fanfiction.

I had no issues with it. I did not see it as Zoe being beholden to Mal in some way, but just that she trusted his judgement - sometimes more so than her own (In Bushwacked she more or less waits for Mal to confirm it's Reavers that hit - even though the script tells us her own thoughts were not too far from that track.)

I think alot of it has to do with the current climate of entertainment where there is only true love and only of one type. Either you hate someone or you are in love with them. or both. Firefly for me was above that. Better than.

RIVER6213

Monday, June 4, 2007 2:27 AM

Zoe follows Mal because she trusts his judgment; she has faith in his decisions for the most part because his judgement and decision making saved her ass in too many rough situations. Mal trust Zoe because she's a realist, and VERY pragmatic, and she doenst hesitate when the going gets rough. Both of these characters are complete when together when action or solace is needed. If there were a man on this planet like Mal (And there isn't) I would be his partner also like Zoe meaning that there is no good man on-the-Earth that-is. That line alone should speak volumes to all of you.

-River

AGENTROUKA

Monday, June 4, 2007 8:14 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by paintitblack:
Wonderfully put. I think so too, but then I totally understood Wash when he said that he would have preferred if Zoe and Mal had been together at some stage.
I can see why Wash would feel sensitive about their relationship, but its true, I couldnt see Zoe lying about it if it had happened.
Although she does try to protect Wash's feelings sometimes.....

"War Stories" is all about this subject, and it resolves it, too, so really, the episode answers all your questions.

Part of what makes Wash's insecurity about Mal worse is that Zoe is downright incapable of putting into words what shaped their relationship into one of such trust and loyalty, because he has never been through such horror as she and Mal have together. In his world, this closeness but be romantic or sexual, because he is lacking their experience.

Niska's torture chamber becomes that experience for Wash and he gains that perspective and context of trusting someone else with his life. Mal, in particular.

He understands. Which is the one good thing to come out of the whole debacle and probably the point of the entire episode.

From that point on, the Mal-centered conflict disappears between Wash and Zoe.

It, of course, leaves the "Zoe sometimes discounts Wash's opinion as irrelevant because she's not ready to truly move on with her life" conflict. But that's independent of Mal.

TERRI

Tuesday, June 5, 2007 4:34 AM

I agree 100%. That's what I always loved about Zoe and Mal's relationship. To be able to trust and depend on this man so much, and have be totally separated from a romantic relationship is so refreshing. Whenever you'd see this kind of relationship on another show, it was always this will they won't they, and even when it wasn't, it would always arrive at that at some point. Look at the X-Files, for heaven's sake look at Xena. But Zoe loved her husband, and that wasn't ever in question. Whether or not she completely respected him, well, that's something different altogether. Still, there was just something about that camaraderie, and genuine respect that I just loved; and I never felt was in danger.

RIVERFLAN

Saturday, September 1, 2007 9:14 PM

My personal take on the Mal-Zoe-Wash relationship is that Mal is Zoe's brother, of a sort, like they would protect each other no matter what, and Wash is her laughter, the guy who helps her forget the war. Mal/Zoe wouldn't work, because Mal, in a way, is the war.

"The human body can be drained of blood in 8.6 seconds, given adequate vaccuuming systems." -River

"It's just an object. It doesn't mean what you think -River

WYTCHCROFT

Saturday, September 1, 2007 9:20 PM

you can pretty much figure joss and co. would've dropped some back story motive here if they got the chance to make an epsisode out of it. Why Zoe follows Mal post-Serenity valley. some secret we don't know.

but NOT a 'romance/love/' bond in the superficial sense. duty, loyalty,trust, reliance -add your own here- form the core of what they share. Firefly is about All Kinds of Love.

Wash has issues, but when people are that close - who wouldn't?

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