Surge or Surrender
POSTED BY: Hero
UPDATED: Saturday, January 20, 2007 17:03
VIEWED: 15139
PAGE 14 of 21
ooh...what's that?
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"If your point is that people are not being asked to make significant sacrifices at home to support the war then you are right. However your making a pigs ear out of expressing that view."
My point is this (And how did I become a pro-war supporter by advocating good arguments?)
If someone says "I support the war"
it is NOT a good argument to say,
"If you support the war you must sign up for the Marines and sign up your children, too."
My point is: that response is idiotic.
--Anthony
"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner
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I should have been clear, the previous comment was directed at Rightous.
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I personally am not accusing you of being a pro war supporter. I may have thought that's what your earlier post suggested because you said you don't sign up because you're lazy and out of shape, which I inferred to mean you have no other reason not to be part of this war.
I think there's a valid reason for asking somebody why they don't serve in this conflict as it stands currently.
I don't disagree with you entirely though. And to ask somebody why if they believe in a war their children aren't over there is kind of a weird quesion. You'd have to ask them if their kids believe in the war and if so then why aren't they over there, and quite frankly you'd have to ask the kids...and while you could certainly look to the kids answers to make some judgement about the parent, the argument is so far removed at that point that it is really kind of weak.
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I looked it up.
what part of my argument do you disagree with fletch?
Pig's ear is a nice insult and all but adds nothing to what I actually consider to be a converstation, and not a battle of ideologies.
It enlightens me in no way. but, i'll admit, it does sting.
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"I think there's a valid reason for asking somebody why they don't serve in this conflict as it stands currently."
No, it's only a valid reason if it is asked ALWAYS.
In other words, If it was a popular war, you'd have to ask the same question of 85% of the population. And therein lies the logical fallacy.
The answer, of course, is that the Government does not want 85% of the population to join a war effort. It would devastate the country.
The answer, incidentally, is the exactly the same right now. The government does not want fat, lazy armchair warriors in their military right now. There is no active recruiting campaign that says, "Fat, Lazy? Were you a nerd who never played sports? Are you likely to pull a muscle if you sprint 100 feet? Does climbing a single flight of stairs make you winded? WE WANT YOU!"
Now, in a recruiting crisis, the government does not care anymore. They will take everyone they can. 30 something armchair nerds included. When there is a recruiting crisis, they are no longer picky. They won't just ask you to join, they'll tell you that you have to join because they need you. They will put your fat ass through six months of boot camp if that's what it takes to get you into fighting trim. They will reject only the most obviously flawed individuals. That's what a recruiting crisis looks like. That's when the government sends you a letter in the mail asking you to change jobs.
When I graduated from High School, I had no obvious job prospects. I was working at Radio Shack. I also believed in the mission of the US Armed Forces. I almost joined. I spent a long time seriously considering it. I had extremely serious doubts about my ability to make it through boot camp, and that is the only reason I didn't join. It could have been a rewarding career.
As it is, things have turned out all right for me. I got a good job working for a bank. I can make my mortgage payments and support my family.
But if they did send that letter, if they were desperate enough to want me, I'd sign up. Irrespective of my disdain for the current conflict.
Serving in the military should have nothing to do with your opinion on the war of the moment. Likewise your opinion on the war of the moment shouldn't force your joining of the military.
--Anthony
"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner
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Quote:
Originally posted by Righteous9:
I looked it up.
what part of my argument do you disagree with fletch?
Pig's ear is a nice insult and all but adds nothing to what I actually consider to be a converstation, and not a battle of ideologies.
It enlightens me in no way. but, i'll admit, it does sting.
Essentially I agree that not everyone is making an equal contribution to the war effort which I think is your point. The problem I have is this weird idea that you should only be allowed to support a war if your or your children are willing to pick up an M16. That's insulting and stupid.
I had 2 uncles that served in WW2. One joined the Royal Navy and was assigned to cuisers. The other was a merchant sailor before the war and as that was a "protected" profession he wasn't drafted. He spent the war mainly in the north Atlantic convoys. After the war my Navy uncle would always say that my merchant marine uncle had the harder time. You don't need to be in the military to fight a war.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
There's a merit to leaving the hell alone, and it's time we freakin learned it.
Out. Now.
Not my damn problem.
Didn't want it in the first place.
Not on my dime.
Clear enough?
-Frem
Jeez, Frem , you cut right to the chase , don't ya?
Where can I sign on?
Frem for Prez in '08?
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Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
To my knowledge, we still don't have a recruitment crisis.
It's easy to tell when there is a recruitment crisis.
How 'bout, " all you National Guardsmen, we're upping your active duty committement to 24 months at a time. So tell your civilian boss, at your civilian job, that we're gonna take you away for 2 years, and then we can call you back again and again, if we need you, as often as we want."
That's the new policy, announced just the other day.
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At 50:1 civilians to soldiers (it's 30:1 in Kosovo) that brings the required Baghdad force (population approximately 6 million) to 120,000.
BTW, Iraq has had three Prime Ministers since 2005: Allawi, Jaafari, and al-Maliki. Almost as changeable as Italy. I wonder if they'll get a fourth in the very near future?
---------------------------------
Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.
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