Surge or Surrender
POSTED BY: Hero
UPDATED: Saturday, January 20, 2007 17:03
VIEWED: 15139
PAGE 13 of 21
"You can support the war but not the troops. That seems fair. If that's your stance, then you should not be required to answer for why you don't serve."
Naw, that's another fallacious argument.
Let me see if I can get a good example going here.
Afghanistan. A huge helping of american citizens were in favor of invading Afghanistan after 9/11. In fact, I'm still in favor of invading Afghanistan. Our enemy had a massive support infrastructure there that was actually attackable.
What was the approval rating for Afghanistan? I think it was in the vicinity of 85%. Eighty-five friggin percent! http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/6038436.stm
(click on October 7th, 2001)
No-one (in their right mind) would argue that 85% of the US voting public should therefore be required to join the Marines, work at an ammunition plant, or imbed as a field reporter.
You see, people still need to get home equity loans, buy groceries, grab a burger at macdonalds, have their car repaired, get gas, get their trash picked up, have working utilities, etc.
It is retarded to imagine that 85% of the United States that supports a popular war (which Afghanistan was at its inception) should stop what they are doing and pack up and get a war job.
No one even imagines suggesting this during a popular war. But as soon as the war becomes unpopular (Iraq) then suddenly supporters are told that they should join the marines and sign up their children. (As though it was possible to sign up your children!)
That's just crap.
How do supporters support a war? By saying "I support that war." That's called support.
Now, I will provide a singular counterexample.
If a Draft is instituted, and a war-supporter is drafted, I don't expect him to run to Canada. That would make him 'full of excrement.'
Until then, he can work at any job he likes, and STILL have his opinion!
--Anthony
"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner
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but again, the difference is that we didn't have a recruitment crisis....correct?
.....
on edit -
It can be completely patriotic to support a war and to go about living your life, paying your bills keeping america going. I never said differently. But when most people are doing that anyway, wouldn't it be a more patriotic choice for mister war supporter to support the troops in a way that is most needed under the current circumstances of a stressed military...by joining up? When that is the need...when soldiers are paying the price for that need, and you can fill that role, and you believe in that mission, isn't it your duty?
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To my knowledge, we still don't have a recruitment crisis.
It's easy to tell when there is a recruitment crisis.
The government says, "We are instituting a draft. If you get picked, then we need you to support this war by changing your job."
It will be blindingly clear when/if that occurs.
Then, if I get picked, I will take my lazy, comfortable, out of shape ass and get myself to boot camp. Not because I support the war, incidentally. Rather because I support my country.
--Anthony
"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner
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then what do you make of stop lossing and sending injured and mentally traumatized soldiers back to the front lines? What do you make of our lowering of recruitment standards or the Pentagon's abandonment of its own active-duty time limits?
our government has found a temprorary solution to the draft. It's not a good one and it indicates a problem to me.
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"wouldn't it be a more patriotic choice for mister war supporter to support the troops in a way that is most needed under the current circumstances of a stressed military...by joining up? When that is the need...when soldiers are paying the price for that need, and you can fill that role, and you believe in that mission, isn't it your duty?"
When the government decides that they need my fat, lazy ass in this conflict, they will write me a letter that says, "You've been drafted."
At that moment, changing my job becomes part of my support for this government. At that moment, I change my job.
--Anthony
"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner
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"then what do you make of stop lossing and sending injured and mentally traumatized soldiers back to the front lines? What do you make of our lowering of recruitment standards or the Pentagon's abandonment of its own active-duty time limits?
our government has found a temprorary solution to the draft. It's not a good one and it indicates a problem to me."
Sounds like recruitment is low. When it's in 'CRISIS' as you like to call it, they will send me a letter to let me know.
What part of this is complicated?
--Anthony
"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner
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Quote:From my understanding the optimal troop strength ratio in Baghdad is really much closer to 1:50.
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
"Since military counterinsurgency manuals says about 1 solider for each civilian,"
Wow, that sucks. Imagine if we had to occupy a big city like Miami or New York someday.
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:Quote:From my understanding the optimal troop strength ratio in Baghdad is really much closer to 1:50.
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
"Since military counterinsurgency manuals says about 1 solider for each civilian,"
Wow, that sucks. Imagine if we had to occupy a big city like Miami or New York someday.
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
Yeah, Sig said he mis-typed.
--Anthony
"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner
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I call it a crisis because of who is paying for the low recruitment.
You don't think any of those things I named are a crisis?
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