How Do You handle Death?

POSTED BY: RiveR6213
UPDATED: Sunday, January 18, 2009 19:09
VIEWED: 23778
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CHRISISALL

Sunday, June 11, 2006 3:48 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by RiveR6213:
So, are you the type that goes completely to pieces when death comes a calling, or are you the cool, collect type that understands the cycle of this stupid life and realize that life equals loss?

Death affects me like three people. Like Spock might see it, it is merely the logical end to a beginning. Like Kirk, I am deeply affected, yet I go on (think Edith Keeler), and privatly, like Buffy, I am momentarily destroyed.
I have many sides to me.

Schitzomaybe Chrisisall

SAMEERTIA

Sunday, June 11, 2006 3:50 PM

Wow.
I don't think I can even respond to this thread after reading the responses posted so far.

I am a Priestess of the Goddess. I understand the cycle of life, and I understand the transformations of death.

This does not mean that I do not grieve. Grief is not for the dead, it is for the living. My dear friend Eric is out of pain now. Somewhere he is safe and whole.

But that doesn't mean that I don't weep for myself, and for my loss of a friend. It doesn't mean that I don't occassionally see something that reminds me of him that causes my eyes to well with tears, and my heart to slow just a little.

Grief is healthy, it is as much a part of the lifecycle as living and dying. "What's the big deal"???? How can you even ask that? Someone who I love, who was a dear part of my life is gone from it. I cannot see him, cannot hear him, cannot laugh at his jokes, or look foreward to his next email. Am I not allowed to weep for my loss, and for the loss his family has suffered?

My heart breaks when I read this thread and see how cold many of you are, how dissassociated from sentiment, as though it is somehow a weakness to weep and to hurt.

It isn't a weakness. It's one our greatest gifts.

RIVER6213

Sunday, June 11, 2006 3:58 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by RiveR6213:
So, are you the type that goes completely to pieces when death comes a calling, or are you the cool, collect type that understands the cycle of this stupid life and realize that life equals loss?

Death affects me like three people. Like Spock might see it, it is merely the logical end to a beginning. Like Kirk, I am deeply affected, yet I go on (think Edith Keeler), and privatly, like Buffy, I am momentarily destroyed.
I have many sides to me.

Schitzomaybe Chrisisall

Edith Keeler? 'City on the Edge of Forever.' My boat is named Edith Keeler.

I didn't like the fact that Edith Keeler had to die in order to put a stop to that growing, pacifist movment that she was fostering that would have kept the United States out of World war 2, and enabled Nazi germany to complete its heavy water experiments, so they could make atomic bombs. And with their V2 rockets take the world.

I can't believe I remembered that! As a teen, I cried over that episode! I was such a weak-assed little girl back then.

Anyway, off topic. Good post Chrisisall, we seem to like the same things.

River

MIMA

Sunday, June 11, 2006 3:58 PM

I said:
" the loss of another person who saw you and valued you and validated your short mostly pointless life crushes some spark of your soul in a way that sends rage and fear into your heart. that's the big thing about death. we all want people to *see* us, and it's hard to find those people. and when they're taken from us, our whole self image is in danger." (a really cynical view of love as a need to feed the ego- i thought you'd dig that river!)

I think you're saying:
if you have no personal ties whatsoever, you have no need for self image/connections, thus are complete... so death has no meaning because the loss of others does not touch you and the loss of yourself does not matter.

i say: "wow there's someone who's not afraid of pain because they dared to love. wonder what that's like?" And I absolutely agree with Sameertia= grief is for the living.

you say: "If this is a good thing I want to have nothing to do with it. If this is the price of being close to humans...you can leave me out of it."

they are utterly different world views. where you see weakness, i see strength. where you see wasted energy i see an aspect of community- which added value to my life. you acknowledged that feeling grief is something you don't get. so i explained my version, as have others. you have simply restated your opinion. respond to ours.

on a more personal note: river... you're getting testy. this thread becomes about you when you respond to every single post personally. are you trying to convince us how superior you are? there is scorn all through your posts.

you're obviously really put out with having to witness grief in others. i get that you like being a machine. but then you get huffy about being called "hollow." yes there are many personalities and beliefs, and you just put serenityinscotland down for sharing hers. explain to her that even though you have not a shred of compassion for someone who has just lost a loved one, ("All the screaming and crying that they do seriously throws a wet towel into what could have been a good day") you are not "hollow."

why do you care you are labelled hollow? does it affect your self image? do you not like to think that there is someone who feels you are less worthy because of your isolation? see, this is my point: i challenge you are complete in yourself. you have needs of the ego: that means you want connections to validate that ego. whether it's membership in a tv's fan club or not. or you wouldn't want this chance to defend your anger at grief. you wouldn't feel the need to rip on people who feel grief. you wouldn't care about posting your opinions. you are isolated, you like feeling safe from the wreckage that can be grief, yet you ask people to talk to you about it while sharing deeply private things. like you're poking a scab.

i'm glad you're "good." i think you're clever and a good thinker. i acknowledge you have a different personality. now i'm challenging you to connect to me. see me, and respond without being huffy.

chrisisall- you so crack me up. ditto.

RIVER6213

Sunday, June 11, 2006 4:07 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SameErtia:
Wow.
I don't think I can even respond to this thread after reading the responses posted so far.

I am a Priestess of the Goddess. I understand the cycle of life, and I understand the transformations of death.

This does not mean that I do not grieve. Grief is not for the dead, it is for the living. My dear friend Eric is out of pain now. Somewhere he is safe and whole.

But that doesn't mean that I don't weep for myself, and for my loss of a friend. It doesn't mean that I don't occassionally see something that reminds me of him that causes my eyes to well with tears, and my heart to slow just a little.

Grief is healthy, it is as much a part of the lifecycle as living and dying. "What's the big deal"???? How can you even ask that? Someone who I love, who was a dear part of my life is gone from it. I cannot see him, cannot hear him, cannot laugh at his jokes, or look foreward to his next email. Am I not allowed to weep for my loss, and for the loss his family has suffered?

My heart breaks when I read this thread and see how cold many of you are, how dissassociated from sentiment, as though it is somehow a weakness to weep and to hurt.

It isn't a weakness. It's one our greatest gifts.

This thread's for people with different opinions on the subject of death, so you are right in the ballpark.

I simply see the crying over the death of a loved one as weak, and a meaningless act with no value at all and a complete waste of time. This is just my opinion of it, not the whole worlds...just mine. My life is set up so I don't have to give a damn about anyone, but it sounds like your life is setup for the feeling aspects of the human journey. You love your friends, you love your family. You are connected to people, and for some this is a good thing. For myself, people are expendable, and in the end really means nothing to me.

But I'm not the whole world. I'm just one small slice of it, which is a good thing because even I have to admit that a whole world full of people who think like me would not be a good thing.

River

PINBALLWIZARD

Sunday, June 11, 2006 4:08 PM

My first experience with death was with the death of my great-grandmother. I was 6 or 7. I remember comprehending what death meant before then, and that it scared me. I had consulted my father at the time about what it was to be dead, and him being agnostic, told me that no one really knew what happened when someone died, and that there was no reason to worry about it until it happened to you, which, he assured me, was a long way away.
When grandma died, it didn't occer to me that other people I knew could die too. I was only thinking about myself. I was taken off guard and cried my eyes out.

PDCHARLES

Sunday, June 11, 2006 4:15 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SameErtia:
My heart breaks when I read this thread and see how cold many of you are, how dissassociated from sentiment, as though it is somehow a weakness to weep and to hurt.

I have run across several with this attitude towards death. Some see a lot in their lifetimes per job, war, etc. and become numb. Others, view themselves as some battlefield warrior (living in modern society mind you) and the grief is for the weak. Others see it as illogical to grieve, for it serves no positive purpose for the mind and body. I think a lot of it has to do with the disconnected nature of humans today. A social animal, more-than-likely developing the circles to protect one another, thus caring deeply with a bond. We see more and more of these circles breaking with alternatives to human bonding.

It IS healthy and prolly born by design, it is an emotion. The things that drive us to post, love firefly, and invent the internet. Some of these emote.s overpower the others. Like anger, fear, depression or even joy from another source. Apes haven't developed much in the way of society yet; they seem to show love and affection for one another and SEEM to grieve for death. But I bet there was some Silverback that just said F-It!

And yes River does not like being part of the herd... it is her choice and opinion and her theme from what I have read lately.

As for me, I grieve and will continue. I love people which includes family, friends, and co-workers (well , some of them) when they go I will miss them and show signs of grief.

EDIT: Damn! I need to type faster, looks like some of what i had to say was covered.

GO CANES!!!

SERENITYINSCOTLAND

Sunday, June 11, 2006 4:18 PM

Cheers for the double post compliment.
I wasn't trying to label anyone (I knew it would come across that way though) I just couldn't think of another way to say what I wanted to. I feel that to get the best out of life you have to take the chance on connecting with people even though they might leave you. And if they do, you just have to take the pain, dust yourself down and move on. If you cut yourself off completely, what are you left with?

RIVER6213

Sunday, June 11, 2006 4:38 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by mima:

I said:
" the loss of another person who saw you and valued you and validated your short mostly pointless life crushes some spark of your soul in a way that sends rage and fear into your heart. that's the big thing about death. we all want people to *see* us, and it's hard to find those people. and when they're taken from us, our whole self image is in danger." (a really cynical view of love as a need to feed the ego- i thought you'd dig that river!)

I think you're saying:
if you have no personal ties whatsoever, you have no need for self image/connections, thus are complete... so death has no meaning because the loss of others does not touch you and the loss of yourself does not matter.

i say: "wow there's someone who's not afraid of pain because they dared to love. wonder what that's like?" And I absolutely agree with Sameertia= grief is for the living.

you say: "If this is a good thing I want to have nothing to do with it. If this is the price of being close to humans...you can leave me out of it."

they are utterly different world views. where you see weakness, i see strength. where you see wasted energy i see an aspect of community- which added value to my life. you acknowledged that feeling grief is something you don't get. so i explained my version, as have others. you have simply restated your opinion. respond to ours.

on a more personal note: river... you're getting testy. this thread becomes about you when you respond to every single post personally. are you trying to convince us how superior you are? there is scorn all through your posts.

you're obviously really put out with having to witness grief in others. i get that you like being a machine. but then you get huffy about being called "hollow." yes there are many personalities and beliefs, and you just put serenityinscotland down for sharing hers. explain to her that even though you have not a shred of compassion for someone who has just lost a loved one, ("All the screaming and crying that they do seriously throws a wet towel into what could have been a good day") you are not "hollow."

why do you care you are labelled hollow? does it affect your self image? do you not like to think that there is someone who feels you are less worthy because of your isolation? see, this is my point: i challenge you are complete in yourself. you have needs of the ego: that means you want connections to validate that ego. whether it's membership in a tv's fan club or not. or you wouldn't want this chance to defend your anger at grief. you wouldn't feel the need to rip on people who feel grief. you wouldn't care about posting your opinions. you are isolated, you like feeling safe from the wreckage that can be grief, yet you ask people to talk to you about it while sharing deeply private things. like you're poking a scab.

i'm glad you're "good." i think you're clever and a good thinker. i acknowledge you have a different personality. now i'm challenging you to connect to me. see me, and respond without being huffy.

I don't see myself as being 'huffy' and I don't see myself poking at the misery and loss of others. I've mentioned private things about myself on this forum, matter of fact I think I've told all of you way too much about me. I don't feel like I'm in scorn-mode, and if I'm coming off like that I'm sorry...I don't mean too. I was just curious how some of you handled death. I shared my stuff. here's a post I did in another thread that I'm copying into this post:

I remember when I found my mother dead, i didnt act like Buffy at all, with panic, loss and fear. I was glad, but not glad in the joyful fashion. I was glad in the way that one experinces when a toothach goes away. I guess my mother had laid there all night dead and the blood had pooled to the center of her body. She was face down. I looked an touched with curiousity. It was weird but I called the ambulance and then went back to watching the Original BSG since it was a

ARCADIA

Sunday, June 11, 2006 4:55 PM

My reactions to death depend entirely on my relationship to the person and the nature of the death itself.

Both my great-grandmothers died when I was ten. I didn't cry at either funeral, because they'd both had major declines in their physical and mental states. I never want to live how they lived. In a strange way, I was happy for them. It was a little weird and awkward because of this, going to the funerals with all the sobbing people.

When I was sixteen a girl who used to be my fried died while car surfing. When I was eighteen, a woman who had been my aunt for about a yeat shot herself twice in the chest. I felt kind of shocked by both these deaths, but not sad at all, either. Just a little pity for those who were close to them, becaue those are horrible ways to do.

Recently, my Auntie died -- May 20, not even a month ago. This is the only death so far that has been in anyway hard for me. She took care of me when I was a kid for most of the day, free baby sitting, until I was five. I loved her. But she'd been suffering, too. She'd been housebound for about a decade. I cried at the funeral, which was kind of funny because I had to do a reading, so it was lightwaterworkd(I'm not the sobbing type)-reading-returnofthelightwaterworks.

I'm surprised I cried. I thought I was done with crying because a week before she'd died I had thrown myself a little pity party because she was dying and all the other sh*t that is going on in my life. Really, though, I was happy for her, too, because she was movie onto something better. I don't do the brooding or the zombie, thing. I have some moments of selffish sadness where I would have liked to know what she'd have to say about this or that, but mostly I am more relieved than anything.

So, yeah... when old people die, I'm ususally happy for them.

Peace.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Objects in Space"

River: It's just an object. It doesn't mean what you think...
http://www.stillflying.net/ <-- Check it out!

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