Is a hawk evil when it kills a rabbit?
POSTED BY: chrisisall
UPDATED: Wednesday, May 17, 2006 23:32
VIEWED: 6972
PAGE 2 of 7
Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
Of course animals don't really indulge in this kind of behaviour, people do.
I think I saw a documentary film once that had a pair of killer whales playing with a seal by throwing it back and forth between each other until the seal was dead.
Other people can occasionally be useful, especially as minions. I want lots of minions.
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How can you people not like cats... 
Other people can occasionally be useful, especially as minions. I want lots of minions.
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Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
In the same way that a certain number of rats is tolerated on a large cargo vessle, isn't it reasonable to expect a certain amount of 'self serving' to be done while having all that power and influence? Wouldn't it be super-human to avoid playing the game, a little (or even a lot)?
Of course, it shouldn't happen
. But realistically, it probably always will be going on, but not to the extent that this administration is doing it. Sure, if it's a little and nobody finds out I guess it's acceptable (as far as we know for sure, or at least I know for sure, all that Clinton got out of it was a blowjob... oh wait, even that was too much). But what's going on right now is just blatantly out-of-hand...Other people can occasionally be useful, especially as minions. I want lots of minions.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Khyron:
I think I saw a documentary film once that had a pair of killer whales playing with a seal by throwing it back and forth between each other until the seal was dead.
Yep there's a few examples, often funnilly enough, when the predator has an extreme advantage over the prey. The biggest difference is people will kill for a hood ornament, the Orca's would've eventually eaten the Seal, it was done for survival.
Quote:
How can you people not like cats...
I can't stand the way they look at you, like your beneth them. I'm above you, better than, top of the food chain see, ignorant bloody moggy.
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
And as you know, these are open forums, you're able to come and listen to what I have to say.
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Quote:I tend to think of what a cat does as practice...
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Cats 'torture' mice before killing them.
Rabit
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Quote:You did. I saw it too. I've also seen cats (tame and wild) play with caught mice until they died, dogs play with squirrels until they were mortally wounded but not dead, and even once a weasel drag around a live garter snake just to let it go and re-catch it a dozen times.
I think I saw a documentary film once that had a pair of killer whales playing with a seal by throwing it back and forth between each other until the seal was dead.
Higher forms of life tend to enjoy the behaviors that will ensure their survival. We like to eat, have sex, hunt, and even kill.
The difference is that human beings are the only creatures that can see the price of that enjoyment ahead of time and decide if it's worth it in the long run.
Having said that, I don't think Bush enjoys what he's doing. He's just not that smart, terribly advised, and way too stubborn (or 'divinely inspired') to ever admit he screwed up.
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No.
Nearly everything I know I learned by the grace of others.
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Now seriously ...
Still no.
Young animals play as practice. Adult dogs play with animals to death - but wolves don't. Adult house cats do the same thing - but not wild cat species. The dividing line is generally rearing young.
Given that, evolution doens't necessarily build-in niceness. Adult male bears kill young cubs. Adult male lions do too. Even some monkeys do that. When you have males not rearing young, there is not a large evolutionary penalty to killing a few offspring of your own kind - if sired by another male.
"Heaven and earth are not humane".
So why do people conceive of fair and unfair, good and evil? It probably has to do with evolution as a social species. Chimps and even monkeys seem to feel a social compact, and reject that which seems unfair, or like cheating. Humans are just another kind of chimp. It's not surprising.
PS I learned a lot about this from SignyM quite a while ago, who brought to me many ideas. Among them: the idea that survival of offspring is the evolutionary driver, that males that contribute to offsrping survival are evenly represented in poulations, and that there are probably ways to mathematically derive what combination of factors will ultimately 'work' (an idea that's newly gained a lot of attention among cutting edge researchers.)
Nearly everything I know I learned by the grace of others. That's another way of saying I depend on people to do my thinking for me.
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I find it a bit annoying that we're looking at the animal kingdom as cues on how we should act as a species and what should come as 'natural' to us. But anyway...
Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
Young animals play as practice. Adult dogs play with animals to death - but wolves don't. Adult house cats do the same thing - but not wild cat species.
You seem to have missed the example of adult killer whales playing with prey. Aside from that, domestic animals play with their prey because they're well-fed, and wild animals are not well-fed almost all of the time. If you put a wild dog or cat species together with a permanent source of food and some natural species of prey for that predator to keep it comapany, I'm pretty certain that at some stage the predator will start playing with the "prey" and that at some stage this playing becomes lethal.
As to the question of why we know what is fair and unfair, good and evil, trained animals also know what is "right" and "wrong". Just in the case of dogs that training comes from humans - in chimps and humans, that training comes from members of the group (society, in the case of present-day humans). I think there's possibly some inherent sense of morals, but not to the extent that we perceive them later on in life.
Other people can occasionally be useful, especially as minions. I want lots of minions.
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Quote:I don't know where you got that idea, but it's definitely wrong. Tame animals, wild animals, feral animals, they all have the same instincts and the same play desires. Yes, the young play more than adults - like another poster said, it's practice - and tame animals probably play more than wild ones just because they have more time.
Originally posted by rue:
...Young animals play as practice. Adult dogs play with animals to death - but wolves don't. Adult house cats do the same thing - but not wild cat species...
And I just realized that there's absolutely no point to this thread...
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