Is a hawk evil when it kills a rabbit?
POSTED BY: chrisisall
UPDATED: Wednesday, May 17, 2006 23:32
VIEWED: 6972
PAGE 3 of 7
Quote:
Originally posted by Tiger:
And I just realized that there's absolutely no point to this thread...
My bet is that this will become a discussion on the origin and nature of morals and ethics. Followed by some more anti-Bush ranting...
Other people can occasionally be useful, especially as minions. I want lots of minions.
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Cats are taught what is prey and what is not by the mother. She regurgitates dead animals, brings in dead animals, then half-dead ones to teach her young. Wolves hunt socially in packs and learn to hunt socially. Cats and dogs have a 'chase' instinct. An animal which is not hunting for food b/c it wasn't taught will chase and bite ('play' or 'torture'), not ncessarily hunt.
I didn't see the tape of killer whales (Orcas, which are a form of dolphin) 'playing' with their prey. I don't know if they then ate it. If they it, it would make it 'hunting', not 'playing'. Orcas feed opportunistically. Seal pups are one of the Orca's food sources as are whales (Orca groups have been seen flensing whales before eating them), squid, fish, and even penguins and otters.
Nature is a good teacher. It teaches us that there is no one way to survive, as a species. You can live fast and make lots of babies, or eat almost anything, or live where nothing else can live, or have a few babies and give lots of care, ... whatever works.
'Survival of the fittest' as the paradigm of nature - which means to most people the biggest, strongest, baddest, most ruthless - is a bunch of bull cr*p.
What nature teaches us is that as social species with helpless young, humans depend on cooperation, and that means workable TRUST.
Nearly everything I know I learned by the grace of others.
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Khyron
Quote:Yes, it would be awful if people actually addressed the topic of the thread - what does 'evil' mean?
My bet is that this will become a discussion on the origin and nature of morals and ethics. Followed by some more anti-Bush ranting.
Nearly everything I know I learned by the grace of others.
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Tiger,
For someone with a predator's moniker, you sure don't know much about real predators.
And I just realized that there's absolutely no point to this thread...
Is that because a discussion of good and evil bores you? Maybe that says a lot about you.
Nearly everything I know I learned by the grace of others.
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Quote:
Originally posted by rue:Quote:Yes, it would be awful if people actually addressed the topic of the thread - what does 'evil' mean?
My bet is that this will become a discussion on the origin and nature of morals and ethics. Followed by some more anti-Bush ranting.
Actually, only the second sentence of mine was supposed to be sarcastic. I don't particularly mind it if it's a discussion on morals and ethics (as you say, it's the topic of the thread).
I didn't really disagree with any particular point in your previous post, but since you didn't see the orca thing yet I went and looked for it. I couldn't find the actual video, but something that has some snippets from it:
And this is a little bit off-topic, but fascinating nonetheless:
Other people can occasionally be useful, especially as minions. I want lots of minions.
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Quote:Yeah, you're right. I guess those 5 years in 6 different nature preserves working with wolves, bobcats, weasels, and various birds of prey and prey animals, both injured and healthy, didn't teach me anything. ALL predators will play deadly games with prey animals given the, not too rare, correct conditions.
Originally posted by rue:
Tiger,
For someone with a predator's moniker, you sure don't know much about real predators.
Quote:A discussion of good and evil isn't boring. But this thread has so far been pointless and directionless, bouncing around topics like a Mexican jumping bean.
Is that because a discussion of good and evil bores you? Maybe that says a lot about you.
You want to talk about good and evil? Let's go. But I've already found my own answers to most of those questions.
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Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:Quote:I never said he was the anti-Christ, just sayin' his administration is up to no good as far as being nice guys goes. My question is do they have to be nice guys in a corrupt world? Why not partake of the benefits of corruption, if not they, someone will. Wars will be fought, with or without Bush, should we not excuse anything he does as just something someone will do? So he gives his pals jobs, and his other pals contracts. So what? Nobody's arrested him, so it can't be too wrong. Why expect him to be a hero?
Originally posted by Causal:
Also, for the record: I'm not a huge fan of W. myself, but this whole "Bush is the anti-Christ" thing is just so ridiculous.
Damien Chrisisall
I,m thinking this message is from the anti-chris
" Over and in, last call for sin
While everyone's lost, the battle is won
With all these things that I've done "
The Killers
http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/killers/allthesethingsthativedone.html
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"I didn't see the tape of killer whales (Orcas, which are a form of dolphin) 'playing' with their prey. I don't know if they then ate it. If they it, it would make it 'hunting', not 'playing'. Orcas feed opportunistically. Seal pups are one of the Orca's food sources as are whales (Orca groups have been seen flensing whales before eating them), squid, fish, and even penguins and otters."
Tossing a seal back and forth like a volleyball for several minutes isn't hunting. I don't think it's practice either. Not unless there's a species of flying seal I don't know about, forcing Orca to learn how to catch airborne seals. It's not hunting or practice by any stretch of the imagination. Not even if you eat the seal afterwards.
It IS fun, though. Or at least, it is if you like volleyball.
I would wager to guess that a killer whale (and maybe even a cat or dog) is intelligent enough to know that wounding a thing hurts it.
What I do not believe is that a whale or cat or dog has any reason to care. So WHAT if the seal or mouse or whatever gets hurt? It's fun to play with, and it's food. I believe that's as far as animal reasoning goes.
Is that evil? I don't think so. It's not like the animal is thinking, "Aha! I shall relish in this creature's pain!"
Rather, it's thinking of having fun. Playing with the mouse or throwing the seal is fun. That's all that is in the animal's brain.
I think that's what makes humans the 'superior' life form. We can reason past all sorts of things, and wrap our brains around concepts. We are so complex that we can reason ourselves into unreasonableness. We can twist ourselves. We're the invention that re-invents itself. Not always for the better.
--Anthony
"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner
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Yep, have to agree with AnthonyT on this one. I thought this was nice:
Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
We are so complex that we can reason ourselves into unreasonableness. We can twist ourselves. We're the invention that re-invents itself. Not always for the better.
Although I think if we re-invent ourselves in the sense of changing human "characteristics", it's only as a society, the way one convention that was common becomes unacceptable in society a few generations afterwards. We as a species don't change, but the way we interact does.
Other people can occasionally be useful, especially as minions. I want lots of minions.
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Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Is that evil? I don't think so. It's not like the animal is thinking, "Aha! I shall relish in this creature's pain!"
hilarious!
My cat, a female, has so far delivered three different species to my door this spring. Won't go into any details but, one is cute and fuzzy! She might be a felon.
I think it is more "get, while the gettin's good" mentality. She is instinctively providing for the family.
The evil is that there is a complete lack of political, philosophical, economical and technological innovation going on here and that scares me. Is that Dick's fault, maybe...
It is a dog-eat-dog world, best be ready for it... kinda like having fun with your prey....
...and cats ARE cool!!!!
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