Despite what doom/gloomers say, economy roars on.
POSTED BY: AURaptor
UPDATED: Thursday, October 23, 2025 22:23
VIEWED: 13580
PAGE 5 of 19
Quote:That’s not what it means to work both ways, that’s what it means to work your way. The economy is doing very well. You are choosing to ignore that and focus instead on what you feel are flaws, because you don’t like the American system and don’t want to admit that it is doing well. And now you want me to consider your points.
Originally posted by Citizen:
It works both ways Finn. I could easilly say your not prepared to deal with anything that goes counter to the pro-capitalist argument. If the economy is all it's cracked up to be you should have no problem addressing the points raised.
I don’t deny that the US system is flawed, all economic systems are flawed. I just deny that these flaws define the system. You are pointing to what other economies are doing as if this somehow makes the US a failure, but the US economy is the strongest in the world and even if the economy wasn’t doing well, most Americans would still have little reason to complain, given the state of the world in general.
And as far as these other economies doing well, good! I’m happy for European countries that have found their own version of the “American” dream, if that is indeed what it is. If some Europeans are able to climb up the ladder of success, why would you think that would bother me; that’s precisely what I like to see. So I don’t really understand why you would think I am so petty that I would get into this pissing contest with you over US allies.
Also who decided that all these new people with their hate Finn and hate Citizen ‘tudes could come on this board? I don’t remember signing up for that.
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
Also who decided that all these new people with their hate Finn and hate Citizen ‘tudes could come on this board? I don’t remember signing up for that.
I for one do not hate you or Citizen, I just hate all the morons who disagree with me
And for those of you without senses of humor, I am kidding.
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Quote:Ignore them, we're sharing viewpoints here, something I'm grateful for.
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
Also who decided that all these new people with their hate Finn and hate Citizen ‘tudes could come on this board? I don’t remember signing up for that.
Tai Chi has THE BEST non-grappling throws Chrisisall
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That's all very interesting stuff Finn,
Would you accept that perchance, some of the forces that pushed against Marx's doom and gloom depiction of Capitalism were social movements in the U.S.? Maybe Kennedy, FDR, LBJ, had an impact in this way, along with judges such as Warren?
Maybe if we ignored or laughed at such major concerns about the possible damages of unregulated capitalism instead of taking them seriously, this country wouldn't look the same today as it does. Maybe these are the reasons our poor aren't as impoverished as they are in 3rd world countries? You can't rail against social programs(and I"m not saying you are), and at the same time cite how much better our impoverished are doing here than in other countries. They may just be related.
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If you look at the industrial societies that existed in Marx's time they were increadibly brutal and one sided. That they didn't evolve the way he thought they might is a good thing. This is one case where I am happy someone got it wrong.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
That’s not what it means to work both ways, that’s what it means to work your way. The economy is doing very well. You are choosing to ignore that and focus instead on what you feel are flaws, because you don’t like the American system and don’t want to admit that it is doing well.
Well yes it is. You want to focus on the American economy being the best (which I could argue is not entirely, if at all, down to the 'American system') while ignoring the flaws. You say I don't recognise the good and focus on the bad, well you seem to focus on the good and don't recognise the bad, that's the polar opposite viewpoint. If you want too say the only reason I hold my view is because I'm an 'Anti-Capitalist' fine, but be prepared for me to say the only reason you hold your view is because your a 'pro-Capitalist'.
That's what I was getting at, that maybe I saw things the way I do because I think there's more to a good economy than having the most money, not because I'm 'Anti-American'.
Quote:
And now you want me to consider your points.
Why not? I don't see that having the largest gap between rich and poor and the lowest social mobility of any industrialised nation as a good thing despite how much money you make as a whole.
Quote:
So I don’t really understand why you would think I am so petty that I would get into this pissing contest with you over US allies.
Huh? I think your thinking of someone else entirely here.
Quote:
Also who decided that all these new people with their hate Finn and hate Citizen ‘tudes could come on this board? I don’t remember signing up for that.
Heh, when you get a thread on the News Headlines section about how much of a scumbag you are you can comment
...(Citizen.....is an idiot: http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=7&t=20390)
Or my preference:
(Why Citizen Rules!: http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=2&t=20413)
People tend to hate those that are right and threaten their own beliefs, so maybe between the two of us we have the answers to life the universe and everything
.More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
And as you know, these are open forums, you're able to come and listen to what I have to say.
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Quote:WHAAAAT???? How 'bout them factories where women are shut in? Work 20 hours a day? Sleep 3 to a bed and piss 10 to a toilet? Earn about a buck a day? Oh, and are forced to have abortions if their supervisors happen to rape them pregnant?
If you look at the industrial societies that existed in Marx's time they were increadibly brutal and one sided. That they didn't evolve the way he thought they might is a good thing.
This is not some sicfi dystopia, nor is it some Soviet gulag. It's going on in Saipan in the Marianas.... A USA protectorate which doesn't have to enforce USA labor or immigration laws but gets to export to the USA duty-free. And who set up this little slice of corporate heaven? Why, none other than Tom DeLay and Jackoff Abramoff.
Quote:
You might not have heard of Willie Tan, but he is quite well-known in the Northern Marianas as a garment-industry tycoon. Sometimes he’s also described as a sweatshop operator.
He is also well-known in the U.S. Congress, where some of Sen. Clinton’s fellow Democrats have denounced him and his factories, which pay subminimum wages, for years, mostly because of his tireless efforts to make sure those factories are never subjected to U.S. labor laws. None of that has attracted much new coverage. But there is one reason you might have heard of Willie Tan. His name has popped up here and there in connection with a man with whom he’s done quite a bit of business over the years: Jack Abramoff.
Congressional investigators probing the Abramoff affair have run across Tan’s name in some of the disgraced lobbyists’ e-mails.
My colleague on this page, Josh Marshall, has posted some of those e-mails on his website, talkingpointsmemo.com. For example, in a March 28, 2000, note, Abramoff billed Willie Tan $223,679 for expenses relating to the sports skyboxes that Abramoff used in his lobbying.
Why was Willie Tan paying Abramoff? Because Abramoff could provide access to U.S. lawmakers. Last year, ABC News reported that Abramoff “arranged a lavish overseas trip to the island of Saipan for House Majority Leader Tom DeLay [R-Texas] over the New Year’s holiday in 1997.”
And we get to compete against eachother in the bottom of the barrel. Fletch, I always thought you were a smart dude. You have SERIOUSLY disappointed me!
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Don't piss in my face and tell me it's raining.
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http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=18&t=20100
Consumer cheer hits four-year high in April
Tue Apr 25, 2006 11:51 AM ET
By Amanda Cooper
NEW YORK (Reuters) - U.S. consumer confidence in the economy reached a four-year high in April as better job prospects temporarily offset unease over rising gasoline prices, according to data released on Tuesday.
http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/05/10/poll.economy/index.html
Poll: Confidence in economy dips
More than four out of five concerned about inflation
Wednesday, May 10, 2006; Posted: 5:08 p.m. EDT (21:08 GMT)
A CNN poll conducted by Opinion Research Corp. found that 52 percent consider the economy "good," while 47 percent call it "poor." But the results show that even those who consider the economy strong have concerns.
More than four out of five -- 82 percent -- said they are at least somewhat concerned about inflation, with 45 percent describing themselves as "very concerned."
Nearly everything I know I learned by the grace of others.
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Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=18&t=20100
Consumer cheer hits four-year high in April
Tue Apr 25, 2006 11:51 AM ET
By Amanda Cooper
NEW YORK (Reuters) - U.S. consumer confidence in the economy reached a four-year high in April as better job prospects temporarily offset unease over rising gasoline prices, according to data released on Tuesday.
http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/05/10/poll.economy/index.html
Poll: Confidence in economy dips
More than four out of five concerned about inflation
Wednesday, May 10, 2006; Posted: 5:08 p.m. EDT (21:08 GMT)
A CNN poll conducted by Opinion Research Corp. found that 52 percent consider the economy "good," while 47 percent call it "poor." But the results show that even those who consider the economy strong have concerns.
More than four out of five -- 82 percent -- said they are at least somewhat concerned about inflation, with 45 percent describing themselves as "very concerned."
Nearly everything I know I learned by the grace of others.
Gasoline prices are dropping now, research it and you'll find out. But I'm sure it'll be tough to research with all the people crying and whining that it's so expensive.
Poll's don't mean crap. If someone ran off and took a poll with a bunch of people asking them "Do you think people Die?" and the majority said no would you believe that people don't die?
People are stupid and ignorant, going out and doing polls doesn't change the facts. ESPECIALLY if CNN is doing the polling.
That's just my opinion on Polling...
I like this post though, the economy here is so great. But of course the mainstream media denies that.
"Th3re !s n0 spo0Ne." -The Matricks
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Well, there is one reason to look at consumer confidence specifically: it predicts what people will spend. And contrary to Republican belief, economic growth is pulled by demand more than it is pushed by investment. You being a smart person, I'm surprised that you didn't know what that particular statistic is used for. And BTW, when push comes to shove- such as the post 9-11 holiday season when retailers make most of their sales and people stayed home in droves- even Bush dropped his supply-side stance to get out that all important patriotic message "Shop till you drop". (I'm sure you forgot that revealing item so I just thought I'd bring it up.)
But you're right about one thing: consumer confidence is fickle. It doesn' take into account that black balloon looming on the horizon. Did you hear that sound??? That's the sound of the housing bubble bursting.
Now I probably don't need to tell you this, but the housing bubble has fueled a lot of refi-based spending. Once prices drop (which they are already doing on some parts of the country, and will droip even further with today's prime rate hike) spending will decrease. Overall it's hard to say how much, but some markets are projected to drop by as much as 40%. The last time this happened it took about 12 years to reverse and a lot of homes were foreclosed and people went into banruptcy. So, we'll see how this plays out against a background of declining real wages and higher fuel (and therefore everything else) prices.
Overall, I'd say "not so good". I'm sure glad I put a chunk-o-change into foreign currency!!!
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Don't piss in my face and tell me it's raining.
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