Despite what doom/gloomers say, economy roars on.
POSTED BY: AURaptor
UPDATED: Thursday, October 23, 2025 22:23
VIEWED: 13580
PAGE 10 of 19
You haven't answered any of my questions, or anyone elses for that matter (hint, scroll up, they were made months ago before you went off for a sulk), so why should I, or anyone else answer yours?
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Point of fact, I do agree that it's hard to evaluate evidence not given.
And yes, I know if the evidence doesn't fit what you want to see you don't even recognise its existence. Adversely it’s amusing how you talk about the facts you've provided so often when you haven't provided any.
Quote:I wonder if you're capable of seeing the irony of making an ad hominem attack against me in the same sentence as telling me not to make ad hominem attacks.
Until you're willing to face up to the big boy numbers, keep your petty little ad hominems at bay.
Probably not. I agree entirely, until you can evaluate or even see facts and evidence that don't support the baseless opinion you’ve already formed, keep your ad hominems at bay.
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.
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Quote:
You haven't answered any of my questions, or anyone elses for that matter (hint, scroll up, they were made months ago before you went off for a sulk), so why should I, or anyone else answer yours?
First of all, I started this thread w/ facts, a report on how well the economy is doing. Now, after almost 3 months since the original post, you want to claim some sort of victory because of one little slow down, as if that completely dismisses the great economic news from the past several years.
Still no reply to my question, huh? I know, it's because you don't like that answer, and all that it implies.
People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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Not my problem if you don't understand how economies work, not my problem at all.
Quote:And an equally valid response is: the economic news from the past several years does not dismiss what is happening now. Although you'd obviously like to think that it does.
First of all, I started this thread w/ facts, a report on how well the economy is doing. Now, after almost 3 months since the original post, you want to claim some sort of victory because of one little slow down, as if that completely dismisses the great economic news from the past several years.
You refuse to engage with people with different facts and evidence and assume you've “proven” something. You won't even be tied down to what a good economy is, how you tell when an economy is doing well. Why, well I assume it's because you don't know, and since you discount anything but your opinion and your facts you deserve to have your opinion and your "facts" discounted.
Quote:Yes it implies that you don't deserve an answer to your question until you stop being a hypocrite and start answering questions posed by others.
Still no reply to my question, huh? I know, it's because you don't like that answer, and all that it implies.
We all know you won't, and I'm sure we all know why that is.
Maybe you can explain why you deserve an answer or even being listened to when you don't extend those courtesies to others.
I know it’s because you think you’re better and more important than everyone else.
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.
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[
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
"First of all, I started this thread w/ facts, a report on how well the economy is doing. Now, after almost 3 months since the original post, you want to claim some sort of victory because of one little slow down,"]
Didn't see date of original post, sorry. There is no question that the 5.6% growth during the first quarter was outstanding.
But regarding the meat of this discussion, isn't it possible that all of you are right?
The US economy has done reasonably well under Bush's stewardship. This doesn't mean that you or I are doing well, but corporate profits are. That is great news for stockholders and those who have capital to invest.
At the same time, real wage growth has been stagnant and the small gains reported have largely been eaten up by inflation. Current predictions (for what their worth) have inflation outpacing real wage gains this year (3.7% wages, 4.7% inflation).
So, the economy IS doing well and the gap between rich and poor IS growing. As is often the case, there is truth in both arguments.
Sources:
ECONOMIC REPORT (MARKETWATCH)
Wage growth weaker than thought in 2003-05
GDP revisions show labor getting less, capital getting more
http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/story.aspx?guid=%7B4D74A5E8-B42A
-4950-9377-513032E9F677%7D
(AP)
Wage increases seen struggling to outpace rising inflation
http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/business/15157803.htm
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Sorry for screwing up format of the quote and the post. I'm new and learning. Tried to edit it and fix it, but failed. Meh, not the first time...
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Unwrapped - I see your problem. The one that SignyM was talking about, and he was absolutely right. You know, where you keep shifting your criteria when your original ones cave in under your feet.
In THIS thread http://www.fireflyfans.net/replymsg.asp?b=18&t=20330&m=350693 you said the economy was going great because of:
1) U.S. consumer confidence
2) sales of existing homes
3) consumer spending
SignyM was ahead of the curve and very perceptive in asking you:
ARE CONSUMER CONFIDENCE, HOME SALES, AND CONSUMER SPENDING THE INDICATORS BY WHICH YOU JUDGE THE ECONOMY? Yes or no. Or... when consumer confidence goes down (which it will next month thanks to high gasoline prices) will you choose another economic indicator? The reason why I'm asking is because I don't want to play a shell game with you ...
After much pressing from SignyM you replied:
1) Consumer confidence is up
4) rate of growth is high ( 4.8 % )
5) unemployment is down
And you also said: I merely added more to the list, so you could get a broader picture of JUST HOW GOOD THIS ECONOMY IS DOING.
You started out this thread with:
6) U.S. Stocks Rise on Verizon Profit; S&P 500 Nears 5-Year High
----------------------------
So here we go, one by one:
1) U.S. consumer confidence
Consumer confidence took a big drop April - May and has not yet recovered. http://www.conference-board.org/economics/consumerConfidence.cfm
2) sales of existing homes
Existing home sales dropped 1.3% in June. http://www.buildingonline.com/news/viewnews.pl?id=5318&subcategory=140 For the record, new home sales dropped 3%.
http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/business/15143258.htm
3) consumer spending
Consumer spending was 'soft' and accounted for most of the Q2 slowdown.
http://www.boston.com/business/articles/2006/07/29/us_economy_slows_sh
arply_in_2d_quarter/
4) rate of growth is high ( 4.8 % )
The rate of growth is not high - only 2.5%. http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aWHT9_pZEe3I&refer
=home
5) unemployment is down
Unemployment is unchanged. http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/surveymost
6) U.S. Stocks Rise
The stock market is going sideways (any market, any indicator).
--------------------------------
At this point you are saying the US economy is ROARING because the GDP is NOT NEGATIVE ---- Guess what! The economy is roaring because it's not in recession! Do you have any idea how frantic and stoooopit you sound?
You put the CON in CONfidence !
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It shouldn't have taken a brainiac to see THIS coming....
Quote:
MORTGAGE CRISIS OVERHELMING CREDIT COUNSELORS
... Phones at credit counselors across the country are now ringing off the hook. The industrial heartland has been particularly hard-hit. Ohio had the highest number of home foreclosures in 2006, while neighboring Michigan and Indiana -- all sideswiped by the faltering U.S. auto industry -- were close behind.
Housing analysts predict between 1 million and 3 million U.S. homes will be foreclosed upon in 2007. Already a wave of defaults on subprime mortgages held by those with poor credit have caused a crisis in parts of the industry, and some economists believe a recession could result.
"We knew it was going to be bad, but we didn't think it would be this bad," said Britton, echoing many who warned that increasingly exotic mortgage programs -- including those that required no down payment on home purchases --would come back to haunt home buyers.
www.cnn.com/2007/US/03/22/subprime.counselors.reut/index.html
The economy has been running on consumption bouyed by refinancing based on rising home prices based on low interest rates. But if rising interest rates tank aggregate demand, then the economy goes south. The Fed "fix" is to lower interest rates. Which lowers the value of the dollar. SO in areas where the USA is competing internationally for commodities, goods, and services- such as oil, chemicals, and software engineering- then those commodities become relatively more expensive.
Hmmm... I'm glad I invested in foreign currency and gold. It'll be interesting to see who that works out.
---------------------------------
Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.
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Quote:Ha, This from the guy who thinks that the economy is doing poorly because he doesn’t agree with the overlying economy philosophies in place.
Originally posted by citizen:
Not my problem if you don't understand how economies work, not my problem at all.
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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Shall we play "dueling economic knowledge"? 
---------------------------------
Do you want to play a game?
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Quote:Ha, this from the guy who thinks there can never be anything wrong because he does agree with the economic philosophies in place
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
Ha, This from the guy who thinks that the economy is doing poorly because he doesn’t agree with the overlying economy philosophies in place.
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.
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