Anger about Tara's death

POSTED BY: Pandora
UPDATED: Thursday, July 11, 2002 03:50
VIEWED: 10429
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ZICSOFT

Tuesday, July 9, 2002 5:13 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hjermsted:
I think you mean none of the opening credit characters who have died have stayed dead. Angel was dead for the first part of S1 and Buffy has died once and been "clinically dead" on two other occasions. Man, I hate being technical sometimes. I sound like an ass!

Well, I love being technical -- probably too much!

"Dead", like most words, has different meanings in different contexts. I've never been big on the popular definition that calls somebody "dead" just because they've stopped breathing for a few minutes. (Though of course, this definition was necessary for the whole Kendra/Faith thing.) Getting temporarily translated into a hell dimension would seem to fall in the same category. Falling into a mystical vortex might be different (though Osiris didn't seem to think so), but in any case that wasn't at all the same -- we all knew she'd be back.

Quote:

It's sad that bisexuality seems to be more controversial than homosexuality (on both sides of the straight/gay border).

Oh gawd, why does this discussion always have to come down to labels and categories? Not that words like "gay" and "bisexual" don't have their uses. But sometimes they just get in the way.

That was why the Willow/Tara story had such impact. It's wasn't about a "lesbian couple" it was about two people falling in love. Which sex is a part of, but only a part -- and not always the first thing we should be thinking of.

HJERMSTED

Tuesday, July 9, 2002 10:51 PM

Quote:

Oh gawd, why does this discussion always have to come down to labels and categories? Not that words like "gay" and "bisexual" don't have their uses. But sometimes they just get in the way.

Actually, I agree with you that labels suck the majority of the time. I was arguing mostly in the language of entertainment industry "logic" (or lack thereof) and in the lingo of the polarized factions of various identity movements.

Hollywood would come to a grinding halt without labels... you kinda need them when demographics is your religion. And where would the religious right or the rainbow crowd be if everyone started accepting themselves as simply free sexual beings (among other human aspects) rather than tacking a prefix onto their genitals (homo, hetero, bi, non..) in order to define themselves. They'd all have to think with the brains in their heads for a change (or outside The Book in the religious zealots case)!

RE: Willow... I'd personally enjoy seeing her love whomever her heart tells her to love. Forget about the angry letters and go for it, Will! Lobbyists of fictional TV be damned.

mattro

PANDORA

Wednesday, July 10, 2002 1:50 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hjermsted:
[
RE: Willow... I'd personally enjoy seeing her love whomever her heart tells her to love. Forget about the angry letters and go for it, Will! Lobbyists of fictional TV be damned.

mattro

Well, that's fine and good, except that the American public isn't ready for that. It'll seem like welshing to much of the gay community and like pandering to much of the straight community. Even beyond that, Ziccy brings up a very important point- this woman is not loving *anyone* within the next year (well, maybe if they're crazy toward the end of the season, but I'd be surprised even by that).

The thing with loves that end in death is that they end before they go bad (ok, assumably some loves never go bad, but that's in the real world, and not in the Jossiverse). To Willow, Tara was quite probably the love of her life. Even if that's not true (which I think it probably is, but for the sake of argument), Willow will never know otherwise because the relationship ended at the pinnacle of its joy. Sort of.

So yeah... I don't think she'll be feeling the dating scene very much for a while.

Pandora
mreh

"Mrs. Krabappel and Principal Skinner were in the closet making babies and I saw one of the babies
and the baby looked at me." -Ralph Wiggum

ZICSOFT

Wednesday, July 10, 2002 2:07 AM

Quote:
To Willow, Tara was quite probably the love of her life. Even if that's not true (which I think it probably is, but for the sake of argument), Willow will never know otherwise because the relationship ended at the pinnacle of its joy. Sort of.

Uhm, little detail. This is the Buffyverse. Ghosts, possession, mystical dreams. Tara may be dead -- more importantly, she's probably permanently dead -- but that doesn't mean she can't keep in touch!

Here's a dark joke: "When I die, I want to be buried in Chicago, so I can continue to participate in civic affairs!"

PANDORA

Wednesday, July 10, 2002 9:33 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Zicsoft:
Uhm, little detail. This is the Buffyverse. Ghosts, possession, mystical dreams. Tara may be dead -- more importantly, she's probably permanently dead -- but that doesn't mean she can't keep in touch!

Ziccy, I think you're hankerin' for a spankerin'...

I sincerely doubt that Tara's going to come back in ghostly form or possession or whatever just so she and Willow can start bickering or cheating on each other or deal with whatever pitfalls might befall a normal relationship. If it does happen, then I'll have been wrong. However, for the most part, in all practical senses (because I don't think they're going to try necrophilia), Willow and Tara's romantic relationship is over. The love may (probably does) still exist, but the dead mixing with the living for love never seems to work.

Pandora
nitpicky indeed!

"Mrs. Krabappel and Principal Skinner were in the closet making babies and I saw one of the babies
and the baby looked at me." -Ralph Wiggum

ZICSOFT

Wednesday, July 10, 2002 9:43 PM

Actually, I'm not trying to be difficult. (At least no more than usual.) Amber Benson is still on the cast. I'd always assumed that Tara's spirit would somehow manifest to help Willow Come to Terms. (Apparitions are cheesy, but dream sequences are always fun.) Except that they keep saying "Amber will be back, but not Tara." Hmm. Demon disguised as Tara? No, been there, done that. Maybe they're just lying!

PANDORA

Wednesday, July 10, 2002 10:12 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Zicsoft:
Actually, I'm not trying to be difficult. (At least no more than usual.) Amber Benson is still on the cast. I'd always assumed that Tara's spirit would somehow manifest to help Willow Come to Terms. (Apparitions are cheesy, but dream sequences are always fun.) Except that they keep saying "Amber will be back, but not Tara." Hmm. Demon disguised as Tara? No, been there, done that. Maybe they're just lying!

Always with the lying! Damn their eyes... as though we might enjoy it more if we didn't know what was coming...

Pandora

"Mrs. Krabappel and Principal Skinner were in the closet making babies and I saw one of the babies
and the baby looked at me." -Ralph Wiggum

MILLERNATE

Wednesday, July 10, 2002 10:38 PM

Quote:

Except that they keep saying "Amber will be back, but not Tara." Hmm. Demon disguised as Tara? No, been there, done that. Maybe they're just lying!

Not lying. Amber is now a credited writer/director. Thus, it seems somewhat reasonable to guess that she will be writing and/or directing at least one episode this season (remember, they didn't say that Amber would be *acting* just that she'd be back

).

Nathan
"Being popular and well liked is not in your best interest. Let me be more clear; if you behave in a manner pleasing to most, then you are probably doing something wrong." - Janeane Garofalo, from "Feel this Book"

ZICSOFT

Thursday, July 11, 2002 1:26 AM

Well, that's a kind of lie -- telling just enough of the truth to mislead.

So, AB's gonna be one of those actors too non-Hollywood to be a star, but too talented to just disappear. I suppose she'll do some good writing and directing, but it won't be the same.

MILLERNATE

Thursday, July 11, 2002 3:50 AM

Well it was true, from a certain pont of view.

Quote:

So, AB's gonna be one of those actors too non-Hollywood to be a star, but too talented to just disappear. I suppose she'll do some good writing and directing, but it won't be the same.

My feeling regarding her participation on the show: If they think up an idea to use her as a ghost, in a Flashback, etc. they'll use it (and it possibly could be this year, though the interview indicates not this year) but that they don't really have anything good for her as an actress in the show.

ON the other hand, if Joss got a good impression on her talent (and it should be noted that David Fury, Mutant Enemy producer extraordinaire, had an acting role in Chance so one of the VIP's was in a position to know)then he would likely want to give her a chance on the show to help her along (as Amber might not be able to get financing for a second movie right away, I mean if Robert Altman's financing for Voltage can fall through it can happen to anyone).

As for Hollywood in general: Amber almost *has* to get into writing/directing because the men with the mindset that a woman has to look like an anorexic crack-addict (I exagerate only slightly) to get considered in Hollywood films (unless you want to get trapped in the "best friend" section for life, taking fairly dull exposition characters).

Since, by several accounts, Amber refuses to do that (to which I say: Good for you. You look great right now

) she probably feels it best to try to "make her own" material for roles. I look forward to that, even if it does mean that I go a bit nuts waiting for the movies to be released (when, oh when, will Chance be release? Its finished, it is getting good buzz why isn't it set to be released sometime this year? Argh!

).

Please excuse the length of this reply, I got a little carried away.

Nathan
"Being popular and well liked is not in your best interest. Let me be more clear; if you behave in a manner pleasing to most, then you are probably doing something wrong." - Janeane Garofalo, from "Feel this Book"

edited because I screwed up on an emoticon

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