What are your thoughts on god?
POSTED BY: christhecynic
UPDATED: Wednesday, May 29, 2024 07:06
VIEWED: 44171
PAGE 5 of 19
Quote:
Originally posted by heb:
And according to my Christian friend the whole of Christianity is pretty much based on the assumption that Jesus rose from the dead.
Depends on how you look at it, the man taught things, he was a teacher, are those teachings any less important if when he made the ultimate sacrifice for his beliefs it really was ultimate instead of a three day affair?
Some people say if he stayed dead it all means nothing, I disagree. If he was the son of god, the son of man, or the son of something else his words are still important.
I don't see the need for him to come back in order to believe his words are truth. Then again while I have a lot of respect for Jesus I am not a Christian.
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I'm a bit fuzzy on the book but I'm pretty sure the Case for Christ argued that you can't just think that Jesus was a great teacher and follow his teachings in that way because if he wasn't the son of God then he must have been insane for saying so or lying. And if he was insane or lying then you can't believe he was a good man.
I might be wrong but it seems to me that a lot of Christians would argue that you're not a Christian if you don't believe the bible in that he rose from the dead.
So I'm not saying his words aren't important if he didn't rise from the dead but that, from my understanding of the term, you wouldn't really be a true Christian if you don't believe he did. Which I think maybe you weren't disputing?
I think my friend thought that Jesus (according to the bible) rising from the dead showed that Jesus was not just a good man but the Son of God and so is fundamental to the Christian faith.
...................
Well, my sister's a ship... we had a
complicated childhood
.................
I wear the cheese. It does not wear me.
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I am Catholic. It is something that is pretty integral to my life. I had a friend introduce me to his mother by saying, "This is my friend alex, he is a Catholic".
I spent some time in a jesuit seminary studying to become a priest and gave that up for more secular life. My family has been catholic for about 800 years when it was created by the Catholic Church during the crusades (the Spanish Order of our lady of mercy, hence my last name Merced.)
Being a Cradle-Catholic, I have always had to defend against attacks like "What about the Inquisition?" or "What about the Crusades?". To me, it's like going up to germans and saying "What about the Nazis?". There are stupid people in any organization, and the Catholic Church is no different. Hell, there are utter morons that have been in control of the US government, but that doesn't mean i won't be American.
That being said, i love my faith and church. I like the fact that Catholics acknowledge evolution (pope said so). There are things i disagree with, but nothing major (no theological points). I have made it a personal mission to study the cannon of the Catholic Church but also to learn the about other faiths as well. i learned about buddhism (this is my #2 faith. Could be because i am korean... as well as spanish.), Hinduism (my best friend is a devout hindu), Islam (read the Quran and talked to many Imams), Judaism (family friends and personal friends), among others. Religions can be the most beautiful inspiration for beauty and love in the world. Conversely, we have many many many many crazy stupid people who turn it for their own purposes.
Organized religion isn't the problem. I love the sense of community that it brings, understanding i can go to a church in dubai and share a faith the the man there. it is an automatic sense of community.
Yet atheism, agnostics are not a problem. I don't believe they are hell bound (and according to the Catholic Church, non-belief doesn't mean you are automatically hell bound... trust me on this.) They are not evil. My roomate is an athiest. We respect each other's beliefs (though when he wanted to come to my church to pick up women, i put my foot down. hehe)
I believe in God but cannot explain it. Call it brainwashing if you wish, but in my mind God exists just as sure as gravity exists. I like the philosophical evidence for the existance (st. Thomas Aquinas among others) but honestly, there doesn't need to be evidence.
I hope that helps.
BTW, Not all Catholic priests take a vow of poverty. Only Religious priests do (wierd terminology i know, but that means only priest that are in Religious Orders i.e. Jesuits, Dominicans, Franciscans.), and Secular priests (diocesen priests that work directly under the bishops) do not take that vow. Most Monsignors are Secular priests, given the rank of monsignor by the bishop or pope. Fr. Andrew Greeley, a priest/novelist/professor, has accumulated a pretty good amount of money from his writings. while the church gets a lot of it, he keeps the rest. He has used it to found a 1 million dollar charity in chicago. Not all priests do this. Of course, not all priests are good people.
Wash: Yeah, but psychic? That sounds like science fiction.
Zoë: You live on a spaceship, dear.
Wash: So?
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Quote:
Originally posted by heb:
I'm a bit fuzzy on the book but I'm pretty sure the Case for Christ argued that you can't just think that Jesus was a great teacher and follow his teachings in that way because if he wasn't the son of God then he must have been insane for saying so or lying. And if he was insane or lying then you can't believe he was a good man.
I might be wrong but it seems to me that a lot of Christians would argue that you're not a Christian if you don't believe the bible in that he rose from the dead.
So I'm not saying his words aren't important if he didn't rise from the dead but that, from my understanding of the term, you wouldn't really be a true Christian if you don't believe he did. Which I think maybe you weren't disputing?
I think my friend thought that Jesus (according to the bible) rising from the dead showed that Jesus was not just a good man but the Son of God and so is fundamental to the Christian faith.
...................
Well, my sister's a ship... we had a
complicated childhood
.................
I wear the cheese. It does not wear me.
I can believe in Jesus however I want and so can Chris. That some people might think I'm believing wrong doesn't bother me. Christians haven't filed the appropriate Jesus patent, so he and who can call themselves followers of him is still up for grabs.
This has been your daily snarkiness. Thank you for your patience.
The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule. – H.L. Mencken
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Quote:
Originally posted by JubelLate:
If there is an example of mental detriment that doesn't relate back to a bioligical evolution, I might be persuaded away from this path...
While this is far from perfect, and indeed probably wrong, the first thought I had was as follows:
When my bird died that hurt a lot (I was young and it was added to by the fact that I might have been partially responsible twice over, I'm not sure if it would hurt as much now though I think it would.)
The bird's existence would not leave a legacy of any sort, she was a virgin who would never have kids, she wasn't going to live longer than me by any stretch of the imagination (but might have lived longer than she did), she would never pass on my knowledge, my emotions, my soul, or any other such thing. She knew no one and nothing outside of my house, and couldn't pass on anything of me to anyone with anyone not already getting it.
((In fact she was detrimental to my health. Apparently I have a horrible allergy to feathers, at least cockatiel ones, and it was affecting my breathing, sleep, and other things that I have forgotten but am reasonably sure existed.
This has no actual bering on the point))
Yet I was hurt when she died. I can not see an evolutionary point to this, but as it is out of human experiance it must exist. However as the question is whether or not emotional pain is linked to mortality that isn't really important.
Still, as I said, this is weak, and I decided not to introduce it as an argument before, it isn't an argument now either.
Though I would like to know how you can link that to mortality.
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Hey I'm not a Christian so I couldn't care less what you call yourself or who your follow.
All I'm saying is that I don't think you would be considered Christians in the sense of how the term is generally used.
And seeing as I was arguing not against following Jesus as a good man but against him being the son of God that is how I defined the term for ease of use - as being a Christian as taught in most Christian Churchs, so believing Jesus was the son of God.
I brought up the point about how Lee Sobel argued you couldn't believe Jesus was just a good man because it was him I was arguing against in the first place, so I thought it fair to use his definition.
No need to get snarky. 
...................
Well, my sister's a ship... we had a
complicated childhood
.................
I wear the cheese. It does not wear me.
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My first instinct is bring up the argument of passing a sense of family onto your pet or responsibility to that which requires your protection, much like an offspring. If you weren't caring for it. If its existance was merely tangential to yours, such as a bird living in a tree near you, would you have felt the same regret at its death. Its a transposed feeling of responsibility not to your offspring per say, but something that represents such.
That's my take. I didn't take psychology or biology, so I'm basing this off of articles I've read on the subject. *shrug*
The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule. – H.L. Mencken
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Quote:
Originally posted by heb:
No need to get snarky.
Ah, but I haven't met my daily quota
The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule. – H.L. Mencken
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Glad I could help
...................
Well, my sister's a ship... we had a
complicated childhood
.................
I wear the cheese. It does not wear me.
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Quote:
Originally posted by FreelancePilot:
and according to the Catholic Church, non-belief doesn't mean you are automatically hell bound... trust me on this.
I know, I love John Paul II and I know he said as much on many occasions.
I also know that it is a mistake to judge individual Catholics or the church as a whole on past offences or offences of a few.
I do wish the Church would ask for forgiveness more often. John Paul II asked god for forgiveness because of the Church's part in the Holocaust. I think that precedent should be followed, the Church has made mistakes and I think admitting to them is vital to moving on.
I also think priests who take advantage of their parishioners should be automatically excommunicated.
Unfortunately as an outsider not a lot of people take much stock in my views of the church.
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