What are your thoughts on god?

POSTED BY: christhecynic
UPDATED: Wednesday, May 29, 2024 07:06
VIEWED: 44171
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FREELANCEPILOT

Saturday, January 14, 2006 11:53 PM

I agree with you on all points except one.
Priests who abuses their parishoners should be tortured... like old school inquisition torture.
Perhaps the lack of forgiveness for those men is un-christian of me, but i stand by it.

Wash: Yeah, but psychic? That sounds like science fiction.
Zoë: You live on a spaceship, dear.
Wash: So?

CHRISTHECYNIC

Saturday, January 14, 2006 11:56 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by JubelLate:
My first instinct is bring up the argument of passing a sense of family onto your pet or responsibility to that which requires your protection, much like an offspring.

Yeah, that's the way I would explain it away too, but I should point out I never really thought of her like a child. She was laying eggs (poor thing actually thought they might hatch it totally lacked an understanding of biology) so I thought of her as an adult while I was still a kid.

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If its existance was merely tangential to yours, such as a bird living in a tree near you, would you have felt the same regret at its death.

The same regret? No. Regret? Yes.

I regret all death, more to the point:

If I see a dead bird it means it died without purpose, without meaning. If I don't see a dead bird, which is the case with the vast majority of dead birds, it might be something's lunch (not pleasant for the bird I admit, but at least it has meaning) or it might have died defending its young (in which case it would also be something's lunch), or any number of other things (most of which end with being eaten.)

I think the only reason the amount of pointless death in the world doesn't drive me nuts is that I don't see it.

CHRISTHECYNIC

Sunday, January 15, 2006 12:03 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by FreelancePilot:
I agree with you on all points except one.
Priests who abuses their parishoners should be tortured... like old school inquisition torture.
Perhaps the lack of forgiveness for those men is un-christian of me, but i stand by it.

Actually I believe that too, but since I don't approve of torture I thought I'd leave that out.

I believe that people, no matter how bad, can reform and ideally I’d like all people to reform and be forgiven, but a large part of me wants to see them punished, horribly. Un-Christian, immoral, cruel, and various other things too, but its part of who I am.

I’m happy I’m not in charge actually.

CARTOON

Sunday, January 15, 2006 12:05 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by heb:
I brought up the point about how Lee Sobel argued you couldn't believe Jesus was just a good man because it was him I was arguing against in the first place, so I thought it fair to use his definition.

I think that argument was originally made by C.S. Lewis. It was that you cannot say that Jesus was a "good" man, whose teachings we should follow, but not believe that He was God -- as those two statements entirely contradict each other.

If Jesus wasn't God, He was either insane or a liar. Either way, you couldn't call Him "good", and you wouldn't be too smart following the teachings of someone who was insane or a liar.

And whatever one might think about C.S. Lewis, he wasn't an idiot. His argument makes sense to me. (But then, I'm admittedly not the brightest bulb in the socket.)

REGINAROADIE

Sunday, January 15, 2006 12:15 AM

In short, I believe in God, Jesus and the Ten Commandments. What I don't believe in is fundamentalism, which lately is starting to become really rampant. I believe in the separation of science and state with religion, and think homosexulaity is more of a genetic thing, and not a "curse" that can be cured as some people would make you believe.

And I think "The Last Temptation of Christ" is the ultimate Jesus film, and not "The Passion of the Christ" because it doesn't kowtow to the scripture, but asks very intelligent questions about faith and God. If Jesus was just as much the Son of Man as he was the Son of God, then wouldn't he have the same flaws and doubts that regular man would?

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
"YES!!!I'm a man posessed by many demons....Polite demons that would open the door for a lady carrying too many parcels...BUT DEMONS NONETHELESS!!!! Yes. I have walked along the path of evil many times, it's a twisting, curving path that..actually leads to a charming plot garden, BUT BEYOND THAT EVIL!!!"

LOOTZEE

Sunday, January 15, 2006 12:22 AM

I am an atheist but it's just the way god made me

WINDWALKER

Sunday, January 15, 2006 12:44 AM

I tend to avoid religious discussion
It creates to many bad feelings and confusion.
Just believing for oneself is the goal and personal
God is like a juicy berry pie
You look at it and its just a plain ol dish to the eye but once you've cut into it and tasted it
everything else is garnish

I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die.

CHRISTHECYNIC

Sunday, January 15, 2006 12:49 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by cartoon:
I think that argument was originally made by C.S. Lewis. It was that you cannot say that Jesus was a "good" man, whose teachings we should follow, but not believe that He was God -- as those two statements entirely contradict each other.

If Jesus wasn't God, He was either insane or a liar. Either way, you couldn't call Him "good", and you wouldn't be too smart following the teachings of someone who was insane or a liar.

I disagree with that, in Christian religions of all sorts there are prophets a plenty and others sent to spread the teachings of god as well.

Many say prayers to, "Our father," and Jesus is called the Son of Man more than the Son of God. Doesn't make him a liar if he isn't the biological son of god.

Furthermore it was Augustine who said that the power of god was all the more impressive if he could work through a sinner. How much more if he can work through the insane (or liars)? Augustine isn’t my saint, so again this is coming from an outsider, but I just don’t see the necessity.

Also where is it written that one must return after three days to be the son of god? An Old Testament prophesy would be a good thing to quote as an answer, if there is one.

PAYNE

Sunday, January 15, 2006 1:45 AM

I hate to retread points that come from the middle of a thread, but as an atheist myself, I always feel a sort of responsibility to talk about what I feel are misconceptions about atheism.

Quote:
When it comes down to it, the problem has never been if science and religion can co-exist, the problem is always political. Atheists, for instance, hold that the lack of a belief in a god is more rational then believing in god, but why? The only way to confirm that conclusion is to view the entirety of the universe and demonstrate the no god plays any part, which is wholly impossible.

It's also why no atheist with an ounce of debating experience will maintain that the existence of any god is impossible. Those who insist it is deserve to be clobbered.

Quote:
Therefore, not believing in a god is as religious an opinion as believing. Many, perhaps most, atheists, however, will not accept that.

Please don't take this the wrong way, but the reason we won't accept that is because it isn't true. Your lack of belief in leprechauns is just that: a lack of belief, not a religious opinion. You don't need to pretend you know everything about the world and the universe in order to go on the working assumption that leprechauns don't exist. Such an assumption is not religious, it's something we all believe in everyday life because we've never seen anything that might lead us to believe that leprechauns are real.

I am, of course, not putting belief in God on the level of belief in leprechauns. That would be offensive and inaccurate. I'm trying to draw an analogy that will help explain actual atheism. One of the most famous atheist quotes (paraphrased) says that we are all atheists with regard to most gods ever worshipped by man. Actual atheists simply refuse to make an exception for the God of the Bible, or for the gods of Hinduism, etc., etc.

I do not say that God is an impossibility. I have no information, no experiences or beliefs about the divine to draw on to make that judgment. I am an atheist because I lack those experiences.

Quote:
They will wave their hands and throw around definitions, but many will never admit that they cannot prove that god doesn’t exist and that therefore their claim to a superior rationale is nonsense.

I admit it right here: I cannot prove that God doesn't exist. My rationale is not superior to yours. Well actually, it might be, I don't really know you.

But since it is impossible for an atheist to go through life without living with, working with, hanging out with, loving, and otherwise bumping elbows with theists, I really hope you don't believe we all walk around with undeserved superiority complexes.

For those who believe agnosticism more accurately describes my beliefs, I call myself an atheist for a few reasons. One is that calling yourself an agnostic sometimes implies that you're only awaiting the right push into full-fledged theism or atheism, because you currently have a "lack knowledge." I don't lack knowledge. It's just that the current set of knowledge I possess doesn't indicate that there is a God. My knowledge is of course incomplete, and perhaps some day new information will come along someday that doesn't jive with what currently leads me to atheism.

CARTOON

Sunday, January 15, 2006 2:02 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by christhecynic:
I disagree with that, in Christian religions of all sorts there are prophets a plenty and others sent to spread the teachings of god as well.

I'm sorry. In my initial haste to reply, I inadvertantly left out one crucial part of Lewis's argument. Jesus did claim to be God. As such, we have to believe He is God, or that He was a liar and/or insane, as one doesn't claim to be God if they're not God (unless they're crazy or a liar -- in which case, we should ignore everything they say).

If you want me to quote you passages where Jesus claimed divinity, contact me privately. I don't want to weigh down this thread with detailed, theological intercourse -- particularly, as I'm understanding your initial reason for starting this thread to just to give a basic answer to our individual beliefs, and not deliver entire treatises.

(Besides, this thread is already too long.)

Quote:
Originally posted by christhecynic:
Many say prayers to, "Our father," and Jesus is called the Son of Man more than the Son of God. Doesn't make him a liar if he isn't the biological son of god.

"Son of Man" was actually a Messianic title.

Quote:
Originally posted by christhecynic:
Furthermore it was Augustine who said that the power of god was all the more impressive if he could work through a sinner. How much more if he can work through the insane (or liars)? Augustine isn’t my saint, so again this is coming from an outsider, but I just don’t see the necessity.

It's hardly my place to speak for Augustine, but I think he was paraphrasing (or even embellishing upon) Paul (I think from Romans). In other words, the more desperate the individual the Lord works through, the greater the glory to God and not man. But, this certainly wouldn't apply to someone who claimed to be God and wasn't God. Clearly, such is blasphemy.

Quote:
Originally posted by christhecynic:
Also where is it written that one must return after three days to be the son of god? An Old Testament prophesy would be a good thing to quote as an answer, if there is one.

It doesn't say that one has to return after three days to be the Son of God, but Jesus multitudinously (and clearly) said He would return after three days in the grave prior to the fact.

There are a multitude of Old Testament prophesies fulfilled to the letter, but to my knowledge the number of days in the grave isn't one of them (and I could be wrong).

[For a good work on the subject of fulfilled OT prophesies in Jesus, I recommend: "The Case for Jesus, The Messiah" by J. Ankerberg. Also, both "Zola Levitt Ministries" (out of Dallas, TX) and "Chosen People Ministries" (out of NYC). I believe they both have websites.]

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