What are your thoughts on god?
POSTED BY: christhecynic
UPDATED: Wednesday, May 29, 2024 07:06
VIEWED: 44171
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What is emotional pain other than a response to an action of another that is detrimental to you.
It requires a bit more stretching, but say you are in love with some individual. Love is a social construct to form a loyal partnership for the ostensible purpose of procreation (that's no longer true, but its still a leftover biological reason). Breaking of that contract through choosing another mate leaves you in mental pain. But why should that be. The individual did not harm you? But the individual did damage you ability to procreate and thus reduce your chances of meeting your biological need. Thus ending your DNA line, thwarting your primary goal in life. Thus, your further existence, (through your lineage) is over. The individual killed your legacy. Relate that back to God and you discover there would be no need for an immortal being to procreate and thus should not suffer anything if some human failed to "love" him (obviously not in the same way) and thus any mental pain would demonstrate a "need" of the supreme being for something biological from humans and thus indicate a certain mortality.
Yes, I am aware of the stretch in assumption I have created and how my specific example falls apart here if you breathe on it, but I don't have the book in front of me, so I cannot remember what argument the Greek made to deal with this aspect (which I do believe he did make).
But you can see that the possiblity for some logical deduction from mental pain to physical pain exists (atleast in human terms), so the idea cannot be entirely dismissed.
The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule. – H.L. Mencken
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Quote:
Originally posted by RocketJock:
To quasi-quote a character from the TV show Bones: "I believe that organized religion is a sham, a con game designed to fleece the flock and exert social control through the threat of eternal damnation. But that doesn't mean God doesn't love me."
Myself, I'm a Pagan, a New Norse Heathen to be precise. Don't bother looking it up; I'm a church of one right now. Which is the lovely thing about Paganism. No "One size fits all" attitudes here.
Yep, we Pagans have a God for everything: Thunder, Music, Machines, War, Harvests -- the only one we don't have is a God of Premature Ejaculation. (But I understand one's coming quickly. Rim Shot!)
But you are speaking of "God", singular. Well, like the Hindus, I don't have a problem reconciling Mono-and-Poly theisms. There's "God", and there's "The Gods", and there's no real contradiction between them. One set up the playing field, and the others, knowingly or unknowingly, placed the pieces on the board. There's a lovely bit in a movie whose name escapes me; two blue-skinned Hindu Gods at the controls of a jumbo jet. Says the first: "Do you know how to fly this thing?" Replies the second: "No. Thank God we're Gods."
Simply put, God is just too important a concept to take seriously.
"I'm sorry my karma ran over your dogma." -- George R.R. Martin
That History of the World Ref. is funny!
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Quote:
Originally posted by cartoon:
BTW, if any skeptics are interested in reading a book written by a one-time, fellow-skeptic, unbeliever, I can recommend Lee Strobel's "The Case for Christ". From my understanding, Strobel (an investigative reportrer) was an unbeliever (in God) who became angry when his wife became a believer in Jesus, and in an effort to prove her wrong, eventually wound up becoming a believer himself.
I've read it, and it's a very well-done book, tackled the way a reporter might tackle finding evidence for any subject.
I've read this book and the rebuttals of this book and the rebuttals of the rebuttals. I have to say I don't agree that this book was similar to a journalistic investigation. Lee Strobel only presented the arguments of Christians in this book . I don't know of many genuine journalists who would only look at one side of a story. In his only chapter devoted to people who didn't agree with his version of Christianity he only interviewed another Christian about them and didn't interview the group themselves.
Also at the time of writing the book he had already been a Christian for a while rather than becoming one in the process of researching the book which was not made clear.
Also I'd argue that the author was pre-disposed to believe the case for Christ as he was feeling left out of his wife's new interest (though I'm no psychologist).
My personal thoughts on the subject of the book are:
A lot of discussion of the bible seems to depend on different theories and interpretations of the language.
There is only historical evidence in one of the 5 or so possible categories of historical evidence. So, as for most ancient history, we will never know the details of one man's life with complete accuracy and in the case of Christ's less well than most because of the evidence only being present in one category. So I think that we cannot prove that a man rose from the dead 2000 years ago by historical methods. And according to my Christian friend the whole of Christianity is pretty much based on the assumption that Jesus rose from the dead. And I personally don't believe that we can prove (or there is enough evidence that) that happened.
But like I said these are my personal feelings, I'm no historian or theologian.
Heather
Ps. I can try and find the links to the rebuttal of this book and the rebuttals of that if anyone wants.
...................
Well, my sister's a ship... we had a
complicated childhood
.................
I wear the cheese. It does not wear me.
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Quote:
Originally posted by JubelLate:
But you can see that the possiblity for some logical deduction from mental pain to physical pain exists (atleast in human terms), so the idea cannot be entirely dismissed.
I can see the possibility, but until I get something more concrete I'm not going to accept it.
As you said, breathing on your example will make it collapse, so I won't attack it I'll take it as it was meant to be, a show of possibility.
However as what you are trying to show is logic, not faith, possibility is not enough.
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Possibility merely presents another path.
If his logic had been airtight, we probably wouldn't be having this discussion though would we. Just something to think about.
The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule. – H.L. Mencken
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Quote:
Originally posted by JubelLate:
What is emotional pain other than a response to an action of another that is detrimental to you.
Just thought to add:
Action detrimental to me need not be detrimental to my life or my genetic stain or any other legacy of mine.
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Quote:
Originally posted by JubelLate:
Possibility merely presents another path.
If his logic had been airtight, we probably wouldn't be having this discussion though would we. Just something to think about.
Isn't discussion fun?
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I was trying to relate a mental pain back to a physical detriment. I don't know enough about evolutionary biology to understand all of our mental responses. If there is an example of mental detriment that doesn't relate back to a bioligical evolution, I might be persuaded away from this path...
The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule. – H.L. Mencken
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Is there a god? I'd like to think that at this point in my life the only thing I'm sure of is I'm not sure of anything.
If there is a god, I'm ok with it. Organized religion scares the hell out of me, though. Way too much hipo-crazy.
If there is or isn't a god, it don't change my main philosophy:
Love my Family.
Be good to Animals and Children.Recycle.
Be honest with myself and with others.
Don't steal.
Stay Shiny.
If there is a god, fine, but I ain't too concerned with him, or him with me. To quote my favorite hero in tightpants:
"I ain't lookin' for help from on high. That's a long wait for a train not come."
Now, that may not be as well put as some of the other more intellegent posts that have been made on this thread. But it's enough for me.
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"You came in that thing? You're braver than I thought....."
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