What are your thoughts on god?
POSTED BY: christhecynic
UPDATED: Wednesday, May 29, 2024 07:06
VIEWED: 44171
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Well, first I'll say I'm not sure this thread is in the appropriate place, but since you ask I'll give ya my 2 cents (which may turn into a few bucks). I know we're past the evolution discussion, but my thoughts there are simple: I believe the concept of Evolution has been misunderstood by many. My personal belief is creation mixed with more years of Natural selection than most. I think if anyone believes they were spawned by monkeys....they may be right.
But back to point. Agnostics are in a catch 22. Simplified definition of Faith: Belief without proof. Agnostics (from my understanding) refuse to believe without proof. *shrug* Catch 22. Maybe they'll find something that qualifies.
I personally, believe in God, but we're not talking right now. Going through a Mal phase. I think we exsist before and after the flesh, if not, then what's the point? We're just animals? Maybe the folk that behave like animals are missing the idea there's more?
Thoughts on God by others that I like:
Roger Waters (of Pink Floyd) Amused to Death- What God Wants: "What God wants, God gets, God help us all."
Emo Phillips (comedian) The universal Prayer: "God, Please break the laws of the universe for my personal benefit."
and "When I meet God" from the album Anaraknophobia by Marillion
And if the bottle's no solution
Why does it feel so warm
And if that girl is no solution
Why did she feel so warm
And if to feel is no solution
Why do I feel
Why do I feel so tired
Why do I feel so broken
Why do I feel so outside
Why do I seem so blind
I'm so sick of feeling
It's ruined my life
If living rough is no solution
Why does it ease my mind
If looking back is no solution
Why are we all
Nothing but children
Children inside
Why do the Gods
Sit back and watch
So many lost
What kind of mother
Leaves a child in the traffic
Turning tricks in the dark
What kind of God?
I crawled around inside myself
It was a long way down
It was a mine and it was mine
And in the darkness
I saw a perfect mirror
Floating in space
When I meet God
I'm going to ask her
What makes her cry
What makes her laugh
Is she just stars and indigo gas
Does she know why
Love has no end
But it's dark-angel friend
Tearing women and men
Slowly apart
Stain
Don't do that
Scream
Don't do that
Fail
Never do that
Never do that
I want to go out
Don't do that
I want an adventure
Just stay..
I want
Just stay in
I want to make love
And if the bottle's no solution
Why does it feel so warm
And if looking back is no solution
Why are we all just children inside
And if to feel is no solution
Why does the whole damn world feel so broken
So outside and out-of-sorts
A perfect mirror
Floating in space
Waves and numbers
But oh, such beautiful numbers
And oh, such waves..
..........................................
Not sure I answered your question Chris, but oh well. Oh yeah the whole Hell thing. It's not all Fire and Brimstone, it's "Seperation from God".
Quoth the Crow: "This isn't Hell, But you can see it from here."
- JadeHand (in clever piratey disguise) Arrrr! 
ummmm....Marillion
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Quote:
Originally posted by DarkJester:
I'm not saying that I am right and everyone must believe as I do. And I am sure that there are some people, even here, who will say that my "faith" is too far outside the pale to qualify as belief. So be it.
I don't find The Matrix Reloaded useful for much, but I think this quote is great:
Lock: Dammit, Morpheus. Not everyone believes what you believe.
Morpheus: My beliefs do not require them to.
Well said, wasn't that well said?
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Chris,
You're probably right about faith and science. You have to believe that something follows something else under a certain set of conditions or else the whole concept of scientific process breaks down. There would be no theories, no tests, no conclusions.
Oh, a tidbit I gleaned from reading a book "Doubt" by Jennifer Hecht, was a theory on God put forth by a Greek Skeptic, whose name I cannot recall currently.
Anyway, to paraphrase his theory, he proposed that God could not be all powerful and compassionate at the same time, because compassion is a human quality derived from our ability to affect someone in some way, to cause pain or to understand how pain feels and thus relate to it. For God to be compassionate, God would have to feel pain and if God can feel pain, God cannot be all powerful, because that which can feel pain can be hurt and that which can be hurt can be killed. Thus, God could die if he was compassionate. Atleast that's how I remember the argument going. Fascinating stuff.
The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule. – H.L. Mencken
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My thoughts on God are as limited as possible. None, even.
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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I've read all the posts and listened with an open mind to each oppinion put fourth in them. Ultimately, I believe there is a God: some type of being that does exist on some plane that is beyond the human mind. I do believe he created man, though not in the biblical sense (Adam and Eve and the like) But rather put it all into being with the first existance from nothingness, and through his will existance formed and has continued to change and evolve as said. The whole idea of free will does in fact contradict my theory but I believe that free will came into existance at some point. As far as God being all powerful and compassionate and how this can not be. To that idea I pose this: Compassion is merely a word for a human emotion, God, being all powerful yet infallable can understand and exhibit this emotion even though he himself can not be hurt. Understanding something and knowing it from experience are two different things. God can show compassion because he knows all and in some way is repsonsible for us coming into being emotions and all, not nessicarily because he himself has experienced it. I'm not trying to attack anyone's beliefs, I just want to say I do not agree with this particular idea. I think I've said enough for today I look forward to reading more opinions from you guys.
-Dan
Ain't that just shiny?
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Think of where we get the idea of God. There are passed down beliefs, many variations of written scripture, and in many Religions, questionable origins. We have the many gods of Greek Mythology. Babylonians, Early Americans, and Chinese cultures had Dragons as Gods.
I believe it is our Human understanding or intellect that is evolving.
The concept of time on an evolutionary or universal scale cannot fully be comprehended by most at present. It is hard for some people to sit an hour at the doctors office. Our time is based on our tiny star spreading light on us when we're facing it. Which led to the study of the speed of light which can be introduced to measuring the vastness of space.
This is why some people are left undecided in this age. (as you mention in the Real World Event Discussions CtheC) Its hard to take it all in.
anyway... Just like Societies/Cultures of the past, religions are slowly dwindled out of existence. I think this is what Joss is saying by having China and USA left as the superpowers and about three known practiced religions.
We are still finding ancient civilizations in the Americas older than Egyptian cultures. We know nothing of these people who existed only thousands of years ago. So, I do not find it hard to believe some people can’t come to grips with evolutionary processes that take possibly millions of years.
But u know… the fact that I do not even know who my great, great, great grandma was only a couple hundred years ago makes me think… “yeah, some intelligent being could have just left behind some DNA strands eons back.” But where did he come from? We get ourselves trapped in unending questions further thwarting us from finding answers.
When an Einstein or Newton comes along and can convince others that… Hey, there are ways to prove that this world is bound by scientific laws, people are gonna change. U know… Curious George… Monkey See Monkey Do…
This leads us back to natural selection, this is one of the many traits (Curiosity) that brought us on top of the evolutionary (of this planet) chain. We create Gods to explain our own minds and even organize our societies/tribes. If mandatory rules are created by your creator you will be able to “Shine on your brother” and live peacefully. Oh, and there is also the dominating, competive side of the psyche where the few want control of the many.
The view of a peaceful and not vengeful God is a fairly new CtheC (at least in civilized history and widely known, I’m sure someone has an obscure reference)
So, I am man of science and have faith in science
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God created the universe -then it started evolving.
Anything I say on the topic of God couldn't
possibly matter to anyone. But if you're any kind
of 'truth seeker', you'll get much from this:
http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/thunder.html
P.S. Ummm... are you people suggesting that
Summer Glau is *not* God? Thought this was settled.
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Quote:
Originally posted by BlackJackRackham:
Agnostics are in a catch 22. Simplified definition of Faith: Belief without proof. Agnostics (from my understanding) refuse to believe without proof. *shrug* Catch 22. Maybe they'll find something that qualifies.
Actually, I consider Agnosticism to be more intellectually honest than Atheism; Agnostic derives from the prefix "A" meaning "none" and the word "gnossos", meaning knowledge: "Lack of Knowledge", rather than "lack of proof." An agnostic admits a lack of knowledge as to the existence and nature of God, while an Atheist claims absolute knowledge of God's non-existence--which, to my eyes is an act of faith. Which, oddly enough, makes Atheism a religion, while Agnosticism is merely a philosophy.
However, it is possible to have knowledge of something without objective proof. A personal example: I considered myself an Agnostic until I had a personal revelation; relaxed and happy in the arms of the woman who would later become my wife, I realized that she and I had been through this before; that we had shared lives and love in the past, and would again in the future. Which implied that there had to be some framework, some matrix, to allow such a connection.
An irrational knowledge, to be sure, with no objective evidence. I ask no one to change their beliefs because of it--but it was, and is, very real to me. It was my touchstone to finding faith. To quote Heinlein, "I may be mistaken, but I'm not uncertain."
"Things you don't want to hear God say: "You humans totally weird me out."/"Omnipotence ain't all it's cracked up to be."/"Judgement time!" -- Tatsuya Ishida
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This is probably the most controversial subject in the gamut of human experience. There are so many belief systems out there. I would have to say I believe in God. Obviously I can't back that up with proof but I have to take some things on "faith". Not blind faith but a rational faith, at least something that makes rational sense to me without needing exact proof.
I have problems with religion. Organized faith tends to be, in my opinion, just a tool for manipulation and extortion. I was baptised at birth as a protestant (Congregationalist) and I honestly have no idea what it means to be a Congregationalist. Later on I was urged by family pressures to convert to Catholicism. This was a portal into the most turbulent period of my search for a spiritual framework I could embrace. I had many problems with Catholic dogma and my mind was already logical and rational beyond my young years due to the influence of my maternal grandmother who taught me to read before I entered elementary school and taught me to think analytically. I ended up leaving the Catholic church as I felt the teachings were hypocritical. In the town I lived in the local Monsignior drove a Mercedes Benz 300 that was fairly new. I thought this conflicted with his vow of poverty as the amount of money it cost could have fed many of the truly needy while still leaving money left over for a Ford Taurus or a Chevy Lumina while still giving reliable transportation for the priest to do "God's work".
Later studying the middle ages and the Spanish Inquisition I saw the ugly side of organized Christianity and after reading Bertrand Russell's Why I am not a Christian (which he was expelled from teaching at (Princeton or Yale, I forget) I entered what I would call my agnostic phase where I rejected Christianity but not God. Now I find myself kinda drifting back to Christianity but not in any formal way. I reject the organized christian churches, especially fundamentalist baptist sects and the Catholic church as well. I kinda like Unitarianism but I don't go to services. I'm not certain Christ actually existed as a flesh and blood human being. Everything written about him was written 40 or more years after his alleged death. No historical accounts from the times of his life that still exist today even mention him. Yet if God truly wanted to send us a messiah to give us a message then that message would surely be that there is no greater gift or sacrifice that one person can make than to give up their life for the lives of many. To quote Spock: "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few or the one." and I think this would be what God really wants of us if he truly exists in the manner most faiths describe. Whenever I hear someone preaching in the name of God I now tune them out. Especially Pat Robertson and the foul abomination known as the Reverend Fred Phelps of the Westboro Baptist Church of Westboro, Kansas. The Rev. Phelps if you are not aware takes his flock of inbred waste product followers around the country protesting at the funerals of soldiers killed in Iraq claiming they died as God's punishment for America granting civil rights to homosexuals. To me this goes beyond the pale in being inappropriate behavior and I wish the Rev Phelps and all his flock eternal damnation for their unChristian behavior. Not very Christian of me but hey, that's just the way it goes. I have little tolerance for people who cling to a fanatic faith and arrogantly dismiss others beliefs as invalid such as some Baptist sects that believe in a literal interpretation of the Bible as the "inerrant word of God" and that all Catholics are not saved simply because the Catholic church teachings are flawed. Is God truly that nitpicky or does He judge us based on whether or not we try to do good rather than evil and show compassion to others regardless of what branch of Christianity or other religion we belong to. I don't believe God intervenes on our behalf or punishes everyone on the Gulf Coast because New Orleans is so tolerant of homosexuals. This isn't religion but a pathologica
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Quote:
Originally posted by pdcharles:
So, I am man of science and have faith in science
I am too, faith in science and faith in god do not contradict.
-
As for the evolution of concept god, all human concepts have evolved, once the earth was flat, then it was a sphere, then it was a not quite sphere.
So once upon a time a 7 or 8 "plauges" in rapid succession was the will of god, and therefore god must be vengeful.
Then one day that changed, people began to understand the world, in 79 AD we already had people who saw the ground shoot up into the sky and rocks rain down from the heavens knowing that it was not some god doing it, but instead nature (nasty volcano that.)
So knowledge becomes more refined, and old concepts change. But just because one day someone found out that dead meat lying around was not the cause of flies didn’t mean we abandoned the idea of cause and effect, instead we refined it. The concept of god being refined is hardly reason not to believe.
Of course something not being a reason not to believe is also not a reason to believe, and I’m not trying to convert you. I think that faith and reason, when used together, are more important than agreeing with me. You have faith in science, and that is just as worthy as faith in god.
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