new deadly human-to-human-transmissible coronavirus emerges out of China

POSTED BY: 1KIKI
UPDATED: Tuesday, May 5, 2026 22:21
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6IXSTRINGJACK

Sunday, April 26, 2020 1:00 AM

The only link between MILLIONS OF PEOPLE STARVING THROUGHOUT THE WORLD because you're afraid of getting a cough and people who will start committing suicide (mostly males) in the United States because you're afraid of getting a cough is that they are both things that will happen because you're afraid of getting a cough.

You've already made it quite clear that you both don't give a single shit about one of them. I thought that since the other one is likely to kill many magnitudes of people more of both sexes as well as children that you might take the other one more seriously.

But that's cool. Make jokes. At least you don't have a cold and you're stocked on food and toilet paper. You'll both be fine.

EDIT: Oh, and here's the original article with a link. I feel that I have to post it again since we're on a new page and you both seem to have amnesia now from the stay at home orders.

https://people.com/food/world-face-multiple-famines-biblical-proportio
ns-coronavirus-crisis/

Quote:

UN Leader Says the World Could Face 'Famines of Biblical Proportions' amid Coronavirus Crisis

“While dealing with a COVID-19 pandemic, we are also on the brink of a hunger pandemic,” David Beasley, the director of the UN World Food Program warned

As the world continues to battle the coronavirus pandemic, the United Nations is warning that without action, the world is at risk of numerous famines “of biblical proportions” in the near future.

He explained that famines could be seen “in about three dozen countries,” ten of which already have more than 1 million people on the verge of starvation.

“There is also a real danger that more people could potentially die from the economic impact of COVID-19 than from the virus itself,” he warned.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

1KIKI

Sunday, April 26, 2020 1:57 AM

Strangely enough, I never issued any stay-at-home orders.

1KIKI

Sunday, April 26, 2020 2:11 AM

So, on to real facts.

The virus might be damaging the heart even in patients who do not suffer from heart disease.

Quote:
https://www.mdlinx.com/internal-medicine/article/6590

The virus attaches to angiotensin-converting enzyme 2 (ACE2), which is found in the cells of the lungs. This allows the virus to invade and cause respiratory illness.

But, ACE2 is also found in heart muscles and the cells that line blood vessels. In addition, ACE2 is part of the renin-angiotensin-aldosterone system, which regulates cardiovascular function, kidney function, and blood pressure.

Given the association with ACE2, researchers are suggesting that COVID-19 can damage the heart directly. In a study conducted in Wuhan Province, China, nearly 20% of hospitalized patients with COVID-19 showed signs of heart damage. Half of the patients with heart damage died, compared with 4.5% of COVID-19 patients without heart damage.

ACE inhibitors and angiotensin II receptor blockers are commonly prescribed for patients with underlying cardiovascular symptoms. However, some animal models show that the use of these drugs may increase the risk of severe disease in patients with COVID-19.

One thing to look out for when unscrambling the statistic later is elevated heart attack deaths and heart failure deaths. Some articles I've read indicate a 5X sudden death rate from those causes in otherwise young, healthy people while at home.

SIGNYM

Sunday, April 26, 2020 2:26 AM

Huh, neither did I.

The reason why India is fucked with Covid is because it was fucked without Covid. Unlike China, India was never able to get it's shit together and create enough surplus to get thru hard times.

I feel sorry for the people of India because their government is not only corrupt it's incompetent, but just like I don't feel the need to swoop in and "fix" another nation with missiles and guns, I don't feel the need to swoop in and "fix" India's internal policies.

If we have a grain surplus we can help then with food

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK

6IXSTRINGJACK

Sunday, April 26, 2020 8:17 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by 1KIKI:
Strangely enough, I never issued any stay-at-home orders.

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Huh, neither did I.

I'm sure that regular ole' Germans who weren't a part of the Nazi party said some similar stuff. Particularly the old who had loud vocal support for everything that was being done but were too old to don an SS jacket.

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
The reason why India is fucked with Covid is because it was fucked without Covid. Unlike China, India was never able to get it's shit together and create enough surplus to get thru hard times.

I feel sorry for the people of India because their government is not only corrupt it's incompetent, but just like I don't feel the need to swoop in and "fix" another nation with missiles and guns, I don't feel the need to swoop in and "fix" India's internal policies.

If we have a grain surplus we can help then with food

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK

WTF kind of obtuse replies are these?

Who said anything about India? The article certainly didn't. The only time India was mentioned was when Karen thought she was being witty using India and Indiana in a sentence. That joke wasn't funny or witty because A) The article didn't mention India once, and B) none of my family lives in Indiana.

But you said this yesterday, Sigs...

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

So when the death rate from covid-related suicide reaches 2000/day, let me know. Otherwise .... zzzzzzzz.

I thought maybe if you saw that the death-toll from the Western World's lockdowns was going to be far greater than 2000 per day it might wake you up. Sorry to interrupt your quarantine nap.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

1KIKI

Sunday, April 26, 2020 8:23 AM

Hey, you're the one that wants to kill off the old and the 'weak' without so much as a shrug. So long dad! Adios bro! Too bad for you if you've got a target on your back!

6IXSTRINGJACK

Sunday, April 26, 2020 8:36 AM

Seriously. Fuck you, Karen.

Glad you're not going to get a cold.

I'm glad that your cunty disposition toward me is such that you can now completely tune out any and all outside death tolls caused by the world shutting down so your weak old ass doesn't get the sniffles.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

1KIKI

Sunday, April 26, 2020 8:52 AM

Yeah, like India's Modi listens to me.

My conscience is clean. All I'm calling for are masks and hand sanitizers. Well, and testing, contact tracing, and quarantine of those who are provably infected. I'm even OK with states throwing the doors wide open, if it passes by referendum, and as long as those states don't then go to the daddy Trump for help if things go $outh.

You're all about writing your family off, along with everyone else, without the least bit of quibble if they happen to be old or 'weak'.

1KIKI

Sunday, April 26, 2020 9:50 AM

Here's one good thing about the pandemic. Fewer car fatalities.

2018 US fatalities: 36,560 or 11.18/1M

Historically they've been about on par with a year of 'the' flu, but after stay-at-home they dropped by half at least here in California.

Coronavirus stay-at-home orders have reduced traffic accidents by half
https://www.latimes.com/environment/story/2020-04-01/coronavirus-stay-
at-home-orders-have-reduced-traffic-accidents-by-half#

SIGNYM

Sunday, April 26, 2020 11:53 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Seriously. Fuck you, Karen.

Glad you're not going to get a cold.

I'm glad that your cunty disposition toward me is such that you can now completely tune out any and all outside death tolls caused by the world shutting down so your weak old ass doesn't get the sniffles.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

Jeezus, SIX, you have seriously gone off the rails. Do you honestly think that Modi, or Joko Widodo, or Muhyiddin Yassin, or Arif Alvi, or Ould Gazouani or any of the other leaders of nations potentially facing starvation ordered a lockown because of *karens* in the USA???

Hey, let us know when you've come back to earth, m'kay?

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK

6IXSTRINGJACK

Sunday, April 26, 2020 7:42 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Seriously. Fuck you, Karen.

Glad you're not going to get a cold.

I'm glad that your cunty disposition toward me is such that you can now completely tune out any and all outside death tolls caused by the world shutting down so your weak old ass doesn't get the sniffles.

Do Right, Be Right. :)
Jeezus, SIX, you have seriously gone off the rails. Do you honestly think that Modi, or Joko Widodo, or Muhyiddin Yassin, or Arif Alvi, or Ould Gazouani or any of the other leaders of nations potentially facing starvation ordered a lockown because of *karens* in the USA???

Hey, let us know when you've come back to earth, m'kay?

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK

They didn't order a lockdown because of the Karens, Karen.

They're not getting all the free shit that Western cultures give to them on any given usual day because we're not producing the free shit to give them anymore.

I was never a fan of the practice for many reasons in the first place, but that doesn't change the fact that this is an abrupt and devastating change to tens of millions of people's lives worldwide. Rather than doing the right thing and weening people of these nations off of outside help and teaching them how to provide for themselves, we've forced them to go cold turkey.

Going cold turkey off a drug has challenges of its own. Going cold turkey off of food is just deadly.

And the other Karen really needs to stop bringing up India as an example. I never said anything about India, and the article I posted never said anything about India. She's lost in her "witty" joke now.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

SECOND

Sunday, April 26, 2020 7:44 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Jeezus, SIX, you have seriously gone off the rails. Do you honestly think that Modi, or Joko Widodo, or Muhyiddin Yassin, or Arif Alvi, or Ould Gazouani or any of the other leaders of nations potentially facing starvation ordered a lockown because of *karens* in the USA???

Hey, let us know when you've come back to earth, m'kay?

Those foreign politicians are not facing Trump's reelection problem. 6ix is being very practical about that problem without admitting that it is all about the November election.

Trump wants social distancing to end, but he keeps his distance from actually ordering people back to work because he would then be blamed for their deaths.

If the economy is not doing well in the month before the November election because of social distancing, Trump knows that his chances of winning are slightly reduced and that is why 6ix and Trump want social distancing to end.

Powerless 6ix is very explicit about what he wants because he can’t be blamed for the deaths, while Trump dares not say that he doesn't care how many die so long as he wins. But 6ix and Trump want the same thing: a Trump victory. Coronavirus is getting in the way of victory.
https://odds.watch/trump-2020

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

6IXSTRINGJACK

Sunday, April 26, 2020 7:54 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by second:
Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Jeezus, SIX, you have seriously gone off the rails. Do you honestly think that Modi, or Joko Widodo, or Muhyiddin Yassin, or Arif Alvi, or Ould Gazouani or any of the other leaders of nations potentially facing starvation ordered a lockown because of *karens* in the USA???

Hey, let us know when you've come back to earth, m'kay?
Those foreign politicians are not facing Trump's reelection problem. 6ix is being very practical about that problem without admitting that it is all about the November election.

Trump wants social distancing to end, but he keeps his distance from actually ordering people back to work because he would then be blamed for their deaths.

If the economy is not doing well in the month before the November election because of social distancing, Trump knows that his chances of winning are slightly reduced. That likelihood has been around 50% this year and that is why 6ix and Trump want social distancing to end.

Powerless 6ix is very explicit about what he wants because he can’t be blamed for the deaths, while Trump dares not say that he doesn't care how many die so long as he wins. But 6ix and Trump want the same thing: a Trump victory. Coronavirus is getting in the way of victory.
https://odds.watch/trump-2020

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

I'm sure you're right about Trump, but you're not right about me here.

I thought GWB was going to go down as the worst president ever after what his administration did to the economy. Then swoops in the Obama administration and took that crown from Bush with force. Things started looking slightly different under Trump for a while (although I've always been the first person to say the great numbers regarding the economy and unemployment were still bullshit and the DOW is in no way a barometer for the economic health of the nation).

Then this shit happens... Not the virus, but the extreme overreaction to it.

I've been against shut downs since day one. Even when Trump wasn't against them. Do I desire the economy to re-open. You bet your ass I do. Do I want Trump to be re-elected? I certainly want him elected over Biden or any of the trash the Democrats had up on the debate stage.

But the two have very little in common with each other. I don't think Trump has much of a problem winning either way here, whether we keep the economy closed or re-open it. There is zero chance that Biden can keep it together and not look like a babbling old man who is losing his mind when debating Trump.

What I'm concerned about is what life is going to be like for the survivors of The Coomph. The many, many, many, many, many, many survivors.

The dead are dead. They dying are going to die. You can't put the shit back into the horse, and one day just like the common cold (another coronavirus), everybody will get it.

Time to try to salvage the economy and let the chips fall where they may.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

SECOND

Sunday, April 26, 2020 8:14 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

What I'm concerned about is what life is going to be like for the survivors of The Coomph. The many, many, many, many, many, many survivors.

What a load of bullshit. There is nothing you have ever written that shows you are "concerned". You could be a politician lying about caring for "survivors".

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

6IXSTRINGJACK

Sunday, April 26, 2020 8:21 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by second:
Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

What I'm concerned about is what life is going to be like for the survivors of The Coomph. The many, many, many, many, many, many survivors.
What a load of bullshit. There is nothing you have ever written that shows you are "concerned". You could be a politician lying about caring for "survivors".

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

It's not a load of bullshit. How so?

Even when I talk about our overpopulation problem that most people are afraid to even bring up because of dumbass comments like yours from dumbass people like you, I always talk about them with the survivors in mind.

At the end of the day this little cold isn't going to do anything at all to solve a much larger problem we all face down the road. There are far too many people on this planet. That is just a fact.

And with 360,000 more babies being born every single day, we're not even coming close to putting a dent in the growth of new lives by adding any temporary death increases brought about by The Coomph.

Not even close.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

SECOND

Sunday, April 26, 2020 8:48 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:
Originally posted by second:
Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

What I'm concerned about is what life is going to be like for the survivors of The Coomph. The many, many, many, many, many, many survivors.
What a load of bullshit. There is nothing you have ever written that shows you are "concerned". You could be a politician lying about caring for "survivors".

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

It's not a load of bullshit. How so?

Even when I talk about our overpopulation problem that most people are afraid to even bring up because of dumbass comments like yours from dumbass people like you, I always talk about them with the survivors in mind.

At the end of the day this little cold isn't going to do anything at all to solve a much larger problem we all face down the road. There are far too many people on this planet. That is just a fact.

And with 360,000 more babies being born every single day, we're not even coming close to putting a dent in the growth of new lives by adding any temporary death increases brought about by The Coomph.

Not even close.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

You went to the place I was thinking you would be going. It is no surprise that you found the movie Joker admirable. Joker plays a number game, too, and will kill an unlimited number of people to get for himself what he wants.
www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=36&tid=63327&mid=1095451#
1095451

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

SIGNYM

Sunday, April 26, 2020 10:25 PM

Quote:
They're not getting all the free shit that Western cultures give to them on any given usual day because we're not producing the free shit to give them anymore.

Another gross misunderstanding of how the world works.

Poor nations around the world don't get "free shit" from the USA and the EU. The reason why they're poor is because the USA and the EU have predatory relationships with them.

Why do you suppose we have bases all over the goddamn world, SIX? Do you think it's because people everywhere are grateful for all the "free shit" that we give them?

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK

1KIKI

Monday, April 27, 2020 1:07 AM

DANG. It took only 10 days for deaths to double in LACounty. It might be time for me to estimate doubling time to see if that's improving at all.

http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=63473&p=20

SIGNYM

Monday, April 27, 2020 4:32 AM

Let me know what you find out about the doubling time.

Offhand I'd say that it wasn't until this past Thursday and the Thursday before that almost everyone in the grocery store was wearing masks. Also, the weather just got hot, so if there's going to be a down turn it looks to be a week or two from now in cases, and a month or so from now in deaths. And by "cases" I don't mean measured, I mean in reality whether they're measured or not.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK

1KIKI

Monday, April 27, 2020 5:21 AM

It'll take a bit. The formulas for doubling time don't work when the rate is so high. I'll probably have to throw in a factor of 1/10 or maybe even 1/100 to try and make them work, or find some other means. And the fact that the numbers are getting thrown in in chunks as backlogged labs catch up doesn't make for a clean time sequence.

1KIKI

Monday, April 27, 2020 5:25 AM

I just wanted to thrown this in: article head in CNN "You can catch it more than once"

Reading down into the article, it says no such thing. It says you may not be protected - but leaves unstated that then again you may - but nobody knows for sure.

That kind of misrepresentation really irks me.

6IXSTRINGJACK

Monday, April 27, 2020 10:09 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:
They're not getting all the free shit that Western cultures give to them on any given usual day because we're not producing the free shit to give them anymore.
Another gross misunderstanding of how the world works.

No it's not. We've talked about this shit ad nauseam in the past and we're in agreement on it. You just forget that we used to agree about stuff.

Quote:
Poor nations around the world don't get "free shit" from the USA and the EU. The reason why they're poor is because the USA and the EU have predatory relationships with them.

No shit.

But I'm sure the fact that you and I know this is going to look great on the tombstone for the mass graves of millions of people dying of hunger because the free shit train stopped immediately overnight.

There is a difference between being poor and exploited and being dead from starvation. It might not be much of a difference, but the overreaction in the Western World to The Coomph is going to make that pretty clear soon.

Quote:
Why do you suppose we have bases all over the goddamn world, SIX? Do you think it's because people everywhere are grateful for all the "free shit" that we give them?

Why are you asking me these questions as if we haven't discussed this before and we aren't in agreement on it?

Do Right, Be Right. :)

6IXSTRINGJACK

Monday, April 27, 2020 10:11 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by second:
Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:
Originally posted by second:
Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

What I'm concerned about is what life is going to be like for the survivors of The Coomph. The many, many, many, many, many, many survivors.
What a load of bullshit. There is nothing you have ever written that shows you are "concerned". You could be a politician lying about caring for "survivors".

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

It's not a load of bullshit. How so?

Even when I talk about our overpopulation problem that most people are afraid to even bring up because of dumbass comments like yours from dumbass people like you, I always talk about them with the survivors in mind.

At the end of the day this little cold isn't going to do anything at all to solve a much larger problem we all face down the road. There are far too many people on this planet. That is just a fact.

And with 360,000 more babies being born every single day, we're not even coming close to putting a dent in the growth of new lives by adding any temporary death increases brought about by The Coomph.

Not even close.

Do Right, Be Right. :)
You went to the place I was thinking you would be going. It is no surprise that you found the movie Joker admirable. Joker plays a number game, too, and will kill an unlimited number of people to get for himself what he wants.
www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=36&tid=63327&mid=1095451#
1095451

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

Whatever, faggot.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

SIGNYM

Monday, April 27, 2020 10:13 AM

If you don't want to read the whole article, basically what it says is that in almost all of 14 countries that they looked at (except Denmark), the total number of "excess" deaths compared to five-year average is 60% higher than the officially reported Covid-19 deaths. In some underdeveloped areas (presumably where testing and reporting is overwhelmed) the excess deaths are 100X reported Covid-19 deaths.

The conclusion is that Covid deaths are being underreported.

Quote:
Coronavirus Deaths Likely 60% Higher Than Official Numbers Reflect, FT Finds

As experts try to model the true number of coronavirus deaths, and some random 'surveillance' studies have suggested that - at least in some badly hit areas - the number of confirmed coronavirus cases might be many multiples of the official count, the FT has published its latest attempt at trying to 'model' the true coronavirus death toll.

The FT used a fairly straightforward methodology: the paper took data on national death tolls over a certain stretch of time going back five years, calculated the mean for each country, then compared that figure to the number of deaths reported during the same time period in 2020.

To calculate excess deaths, the FT has compared deaths from all causes in the weeks of a location’s outbreak in March and April 2020 to the average for the same period between 2015 and 2019. The total of 122,000 amounts to a 50 per cent rise in overall mortality relative to the historical average for the locations studied.

The difference between the average from the past five years and the 2020 number is, roughly, the number of deaths caused by the coronavirus (by far the biggest differentiating factor). Across countries in the developed world, the FT found 122,000 deaths 'in excess' of normal levels. That's compared with ~77k reported coronavirus deaths. If the FT's methodolgy checks out, that would mean coronavirus deaths have been 60% higher than official statics reflect - at least in the developed world.

The death toll from coronavirus may be almost 60 per cent higher than reported in official counts, according to an FT analysis of overall fatalities during the pandemic in 14 countries. Mortality statistics show 122,000 deaths in excess of normal levels across these locations, considerably higher than the 77,000 official Covid-19 deaths reported for the same places and time periods. If the same level of underreporting observed in these countries was happening worldwide, the global Covid-19 death toll would rise from the current official total of 201,000 to as high as 318,000.

The only country that showed almost now deviation between 'excess deaths' and the number of confirmed coronavirus cases was Denmark.

The gulf between the 'official' coronavirus death toll and the 'excess mortality' rate tabulated by the FT. was widest in the emerging world. In some places, the difference was ~100x (that's 100x not 100%). Officials reported roughly 250 deaths due to the virus, but the number of 'excess' deaths was 10,200 in Ecuador's Guayas Province.

In Ecuador’s Guayas province, just 245 official COVID-19-related deaths were reported between March 1 and April 15, but data on total deaths show that about 10,200 more people died during this period than in a typical year - an increase of 350 per cent.

If we assume that every single 'excess' case calculated by the FT is representative of a single case of COVID-19 (not exactly a scientific assumption, but fair enough for an estimate...), then we can compare which provinces, states and countries were most badly impacted. According to the FT, the region surrounding the Italian city of Bergamo suffered a much more severe outbreak than New York State.

In the northern Italian region of Lombardy, the heart of Europe’s worst outbreak, there are more than 13,000 excess de

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1KIKI

Monday, April 27, 2020 12:50 PM

That's quite significant, Signy.

I did somewhat anticipate it, but in the context of China.

Quote:
Originally posted by 1KIKI:
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=63473&p=1
Ultimately, long after the fact, the number could be estimated by population-wide statistical 'excess deaths', if there are enough to move the overall death rate enough beyond chance probabilities.

Yes, that's the other way to look for COVID-19 deaths, is 'excess' deaths. For example, the reportedly 5X 'excess' deaths due to specifically heart attack and heart failure, which I've already mentioned. But if COVID-19 is a multi-system pathology - heart, kidney, clotting, lung, GI, liver, and brain ... that we know of ... and who knows what else ... then a big spike in 'other' deaths and all deaths would be an indicator.

And it looks like those numbers are SO high, we don't need to sift through data like I thought we might.

And those excess deaths in NYC track the real-life facts of overwhelmed ERs and hospitals, hundreds on hundreds of dead every day, reefer storage for bodies, and mass graves.

So I'm very interested in those actual numbers, and at the same time, discouraged.

SIGNYM

Monday, April 27, 2020 4:17 PM

A couple of comments on those graphs:

Those are legitimate graphs. Do you know how some illustrators start the vertical axis at something other than zero, to exaggerate the difference between "before" and "after"? Well, NOT HERE. The vertical axis starts at zero, and the increased death rate is as big and bad as shown: double, triple, quadruple OR MORE the usual death rate. (And no, SIX, it's not due to starvation or suicide.)

One explanation is that Covid-19 DIRECTLY caused these deaths thru non-pneumonia pathways that simply weren't recognized as covid. Another explanation is that, as hospitals are overwhelmed, other illnesses and trauma sinply aren't treated. I have a hard time believing that second explanation as causing more than some small fraction ... say, 10%... of those excess deaths.

Another thing about those graph: despite the fact that Covid-19 is reducing only slowly, the excess deaths are dropping pretty quickly. I don't know if that's because the drop is really proportionate to the reduction of covid-19 cases and its just time scale that makes it look so steep, or whether the "excess deaths" really are dropping a lot faster than the covid-19 cases. I would have to chart both to see if they're both dropping equaly sharply. If not, it's a puzzle to pursue.

But rather than finding these discouraging, I find them encouraging because the excess death rates seem to be dropping very quickly. Except for Jakarta, which still seems to be on the way up. London which has JUST passed its peak, and Sweden which has just reached its peak (maybe). It's too bad that they didn't study India. Yhere you wouldhave had a confounding factor of fewer air pollution deaths and higher covid-19 deaths.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK

6IXSTRINGJACK

Monday, April 27, 2020 7:53 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:
They're not getting all the free shit that Western cultures give to them on any given usual day because we're not producing the free shit to give them anymore.
Another gross misunderstanding of how the world works.

No it's not. We've talked about this shit ad nauseam in the past and we're in agreement on it. You just forget that we used to agree about stuff.

Quote:
Poor nations around the world don't get "free shit" from the USA and the EU. The reason why they're poor is because the USA and the EU have predatory relationships with them.

No shit.

But I'm sure the fact that you and I know this is going to look great on the tombstone for the mass graves of millions of people dying of hunger because the free shit train stopped immediately overnight.

There is a difference between being poor and exploited and being dead from starvation. It might not be much of a difference, but the overreaction in the Western World to The Coomph is going to make that pretty clear soon.

Quote:
Why do you suppose we have bases all over the goddamn world, SIX? Do you think it's because people everywhere are grateful for all the "free shit" that we give them?

Why are you asking me these questions as if we haven't discussed this before and we aren't in agreement on it?

Do Right, Be Right. :)

Did you see this reply, Sigs?

Do Right, Be Right. :)

SIGNYM

Tuesday, April 28, 2020 2:10 AM

Quote:
SIX: They're not getting all the free shit that Western cultures give to them on any given usual day because we're not producing the free shit to give them anymore.

SIGNY:Another gross misunderstanding of how the world works.

SIX: No it's not. We've talked about this shit ad nauseam in the past and we're in agreement on it. You just forget that we used to agree about stuff.

Germany and the other NATO nations, plus Japan, don't spend as much on the military because they have USA bases presumably "protecting them" from attack. But these are not the nations in danger of mass starvation, which was your concern.

The nations that are in danger of starvation are South Asia (India, Pakistan, Bangladesh), Southeast Asia (Vietnam, Myanmar, Cambodia, Indonesia, Malaysia etc), parts of the Mideast that the USA had destabilized (Syria, Iran, Iraq), all of Africa, and all of Central and South America.

WHAT "free shit" does the USA give them?

Quote:
SIGNY: Poor nations around the world don't get "free shit" from the USA and the EU. The reason why they're poor is because the USA and the EU have predatory relationships with them.

SIX: No shit. But I'm sure the fact that you and I know this is going to look great on the tombstone for the mass graves of millions of people dying of hunger because the free shit train stopped immediately overnight.

WHAT "free shit"? Show me in dollars where this "free shit" is going. Be specific.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK

1KIKI

Tuesday, April 28, 2020 2:15 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
A couple of comments on those graphs:

Those are legitimate graphs. Do you know how some illustrators start the vertical axis at something other than zero, to exaggerate the difference between "before" and "after"? Well, NOT HERE. The vertical axis starts at zero, and the increased death rate is as big and bad as shown: double, triple, quadruple OR MORE the usual death rate. (And no, SIX, it's not due to starvation or suicide.)
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK

I think the peaks look so sharp because the graphs are over a full year time span.

And I think they're interesting because they show background seasonal variation, as well as the wide variation in when cities started their outbreaks.

Something that I've been thinking about for a while is why large cities seem especially vulnerable to such rapid escalation (and perhaps deescalation), beyond a scaled-up version of smaller cities that have the same interaction patterns in a smaller footprint. Is there a density factor? Is there a very rare event that shows up better in larger cities, like perhaps the presence of super-super spreaders? And how do very large, very dense cities like Singapore, Hong Kong, Taiwan, and Seoul, manage in the face of what appears to be a severe environment for outbreaks?

1KIKI

Tuesday, April 28, 2020 11:57 AM

Spain
March 16, 2020 lockdown
April 13, 2020 some construction and factory workers may return to work, masks recommended
May 9, 2020 preliminary date for lockdown expiration

New York
March 22, 2020 stay at home order
TBA

England
March 16, 2020 avoid all non-essential contact
March 23, 2020 lockdown
TBA

Italy
February 21, 2020 quarantine covering eleven municipalities of the province of Lodi enacted
March 8, 2020 expanded to cover much of Norther Italy, with some limits. Except for mass events and limited hours, most businesses were kept open with social distancing in place. However, people weren't permitted to enter or leave the area.
March 10, 2020 quarantine was expanded to all of Italy with travel to and from work and for necessities only allowed.
March 21, 2020 all non-essential businesses closed down
April 14, 2020 stationery shops, bookshops and children clothing's shops are allowed to open
May 4, 2020 projected time to reopen travel within municipalities

France
March 16, 2020 'strict' lockdown instituted including mandatory home confinement
May 11, 2020 projected date to ease restrictions

1KIKI

Wednesday, April 29, 2020 2:52 AM

91-DIVOC shows a strong California 'cases' inflection point at ~March 28, 2020. One and a half weeks before that March 19, 2020, California issued a stay at home order. A week before that April 03, 2020, the CDC and LACounty recommended all residents wear a mask in public.

91-DIVOC shows a strong California 'deaths' inflection point at ~April 12, 2020. Three weeks before that March 19, 2020, California issued a stay at home order. Two weeks before that April 03, 2020, the CDC and LACounty recommended all residents wear a mask in public.

6IXSTRINGJACK

Wednesday, April 29, 2020 3:15 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:
SIX: They're not getting all the free shit that Western cultures give to them on any given usual day because we're not producing the free shit to give them anymore.

SIGNY:Another gross misunderstanding of how the world works.

SIX: No it's not. We've talked about this shit ad nauseam in the past and we're in agreement on it. You just forget that we used to agree about stuff.
Germany and the other NATO nations, plus Japan, don't spend as much on the military because they have USA bases presumably "protecting them" from attack. But these are not the nations in danger of mass starvation, which was your concern.

The nations that are in danger of starvation are South Asia (India, Pakistan, Bangladesh), Southeast Asia (Vietnam, Myanmar, Cambodia, Indonesia, Malaysia etc), parts of the Mideast that the USA had destabilized (Syria, Iran, Iraq), all of Africa, and all of Central and South America.

WHAT "free shit" does the USA give them?

Quote:
SIGNY: Poor nations around the world don't get "free shit" from the USA and the EU. The reason why they're poor is because the USA and the EU have predatory relationships with them.

SIX: No shit. But I'm sure the fact that you and I know this is going to look great on the tombstone for the mass graves of millions of people dying of hunger because the free shit train stopped immediately overnight.
WHAT "free shit"? Show me in dollars where this "free shit" is going. Be specific.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK

I already gave you the link.

Tens of millions of people are already starving and third world nations will be facing "starvation of a biblical proportion" due directly to developed nations overreaction to a cold.

Don't use the fact that I didn't provide a link every time we talk about this as a cop out so you can pretend it isn't happening.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

1KIKI

Wednesday, April 29, 2020 3:45 AM

Which thread was that link in? I don't recall a link and you post roughly a dozen posts a day. WAY too many to dig through.

6IXSTRINGJACK

Wednesday, April 29, 2020 6:04 AM

You're joking, right?

First post on the page you're looking at right now, Karen.

I only sent it to you specifically no less than 3 times the other day when you kept changing the subject.

Yanno, the article that never said India but you kept claiming did.

lol...

I even put it in an edit to make sure that it carried over to this page, and said that I felt it was important to do so because you both have amnesia now.

Quote:

EDIT: Oh, and here's the original article with a link. I feel that I have to post it again since we're on a new page and you both seem to have amnesia now from the stay at home orders.

https://people.com/food/world-face-multiple-famines-biblical-proportio
ns-coronavirus-crisis/

Quote:

UN Leader Says the World Could Face 'Famines of Biblical Proportions' amid Coronavirus Crisis

“While dealing with a COVID-19 pandemic, we are also on the brink of a hunger pandemic,” David Beasley, the director of the UN World Food Program warned

As the world continues to battle the coronavirus pandemic, the United Nations is warning that without action, the world is at risk of numerous famines “of biblical proportions” in the near future.

He explained that famines could be seen “in about three dozen countries,” ten of which already have more than 1 million people on the verge of starvation.

“There is also a real danger that more people could potentially die from the economic impact of COVID-19 than from the virus itself,” he warned.

Why don't you read it again and tell me more about India. And then pretend tomorrow that you never read it, again.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

1KIKI

Wednesday, April 29, 2020 7:10 AM

Quote:
JACK:
the obligatory trolling and snark

fify

Quote:
First post on the page you're looking at right now, Karen.

https://people.com/food/world-face-multiple-famines-biblical-proportio
ns-coronavirus-crisis/
It says nothing about the US giving the world free stuff. Nothing at all.

Quote:
I only sent it to you specifically no less than 3 times the other day when you kept changing the subject.

I didn't respond because it was pointless. It didn't say anything about anybody giving starving nations free stuff in the past. It didn't address your claim that people will starve BECAUSE nations that used to give them free stuff in the past have suddenly stopped. It says nothing about nations starving because the US specifically will stop giving them free stuff. In fact - to reiterate - it says nothing about the US giving starving nations free stuff. To be even more excruciatingly detailed, your article says nothing about the US at all.

Quote:
Yanno, the article that never said India but you kept claiming did.

I never claimed it did. And I never claimed it said anything about Indiana, either.

I brought up India, because India is facing hunger RIGHT NOW. And it's not because they're not getting 'free stuff'. It's because there's no one to harvest the spring crops. And even if there were, there're no markets to sell the crops in. And it's also facing starvation down the road as lack of sales will lead to lack of money will lead to lack of planting the next season of crops.

https://news.yahoo.com/indias-farmers-face-shortage-harvest-091822471.
html
http://www.ipsnews.net/2020/04/covid-19-indias-harvests-also-locked/
https://www.voanews.com/science-health/coronavirus-outbreak/indian-far
mers-struggle-harvest-sell-crops-during-covid
https://in.reuters.com/article/health-coronavirus-india-harvests-idINK
BN21J4W3
https://in.news.yahoo.com/diminished-agricultural-selling-may-now-1201
00042.html

Quote:
Why don't you read it again and tell me more about India.

I could, but why be redundant.

Why don't YOU read it again and tell me more about how people around the globe will starve just because the US stopped giving them free stuff?

And why don't you tell us all again about how the nations of the world are doing what they're doing because they're terrified about what the "karens" in the US think?

SIGNYM

Wednesday, April 29, 2020 12:50 PM

Quote:
SIX: They're not getting all the free shit that Western cultures give to them on any given usual day because we're not producing the free shit to give them anymore.

SIGNY:Another gross misunderstanding of how the world works.

SIX: No it's not. We've talked about this shit ad nauseam in the past and we're in agreement on it. You just forget that we used to agree about stuff.

SIGNY: Germany and the other NATO nations, plus Japan, don't spend as much on the military because they have USA bases presumably "protecting them" from attack. But these are not the nations in danger of mass starvation, which was your concern.

The nations that are in danger of starvation are South Asia (India, Pakistan, Bangladesh), Southeast Asia (Vietnam, Myanmar, Cambodia, Indonesia, Malaysia etc), parts of the Mideast that the USA had destabilized (Syria, Iran, Iraq), all of Africa, and all of Central and South America.

WHAT "free shit" does the USA give them?

SIX: No shit. But I'm sure the fact that you and I know this is going to look great on the tombstone for the mass graves of millions of people dying of hunger because the free shit train stopped immediately overnight.

SIX:I already gave you the link.
Tens of millions of people are already starving and third world nations will be facing "starvation of a biblical proportion" due directly to developed nations overreaction to a cold.
Don't use the fact that I didn't provide a link every time we talk about this as a cop out so you can pretend it isn't happening.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

SIX, there is NOTHING IN THE ARTICLE ABOUT THE GRAVY TRAIN COMING TO A SUDDEN HALT BECAUSE OF COVID-19. THERE IS NOTHING IN THERE ABOUT THE USA AT ALL. YOUR READING COMPREHENSION HAS GOTTEN AS BAD AS GSTRING'S.

I put it in caps hoping it would catch your short attention span.

YOU were the one who extended the article waaaaaay beyond truthfulness. Go back, re-read it, and stop making shit up, m'kay?

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK

SIGNYM

Wednesday, April 29, 2020 12:58 PM

Meanwhile, in the REAL real world ... looking at Sweden as the bellweather of "doing nothing"... despite its natural advantages of inbuilt social isolation, where many people live by themselves in their own houses and work from home, SWEDEN comes in third in the "new deaths per week per MM people" category, lower only than Ireland and Belgium.

I see that Sweden's policy is a resounding success. /snark

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK

1KIKI

Thursday, April 30, 2020 1:18 AM

Important things to note:

More extensive data indicates remdesivir might be a useful treatment in COIVD-19. Earlier data indicated no positive effect, but more extensive data now indicates about 31% of patients with severe COVID-19 improved. I think that the reason why improvement was so limited was because many people with severe COVID-19 had already entered into cytokine storm, which became the primary pathology. I believe that administering the drug early, along with positioning and O2 monitoring and administration, could be an important part of COVID-19 treatment that'll save many lives and prevent long-term organ damage in survivors.

Moderna Therapeutics is starting human trials on a SARS-COV-2 vaccine, of the novel mRNA type. The company has been working on coronavirus vaccines for decades, and therefore was able to modify an existing vaccine to match SARS-COV-2 genetics in 42 days after the genetic code was published. Safety data has already been generated for other versions of mRNA type coronavirus vaccines. This vaccine proved effective in preventing infection in monkeys over 6 days. Much more work is needed to be done on dosing, effectiveness, and length of protection in people, but the company is already geared up to produce millions of vaccines.

In the meantime

#WEARAMASK

6IXSTRINGJACK

Thursday, April 30, 2020 6:52 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:
SIX: They're not getting all the free shit that Western cultures give to them on any given usual day because we're not producing the free shit to give them anymore.

SIGNY:Another gross misunderstanding of how the world works.

SIX: No it's not. We've talked about this shit ad nauseam in the past and we're in agreement on it. You just forget that we used to agree about stuff.

SIGNY: Germany and the other NATO nations, plus Japan, don't spend as much on the military because they have USA bases presumably "protecting them" from attack. But these are not the nations in danger of mass starvation, which was your concern.

The nations that are in danger of starvation are South Asia (India, Pakistan, Bangladesh), Southeast Asia (Vietnam, Myanmar, Cambodia, Indonesia, Malaysia etc), parts of the Mideast that the USA had destabilized (Syria, Iran, Iraq), all of Africa, and all of Central and South America.

WHAT "free shit" does the USA give them?

SIX: No shit. But I'm sure the fact that you and I know this is going to look great on the tombstone for the mass graves of millions of people dying of hunger because the free shit train stopped immediately overnight.

SIX:I already gave you the link.
Tens of millions of people are already starving and third world nations will be facing "starvation of a biblical proportion" due directly to developed nations overreaction to a cold.
Don't use the fact that I didn't provide a link every time we talk about this as a cop out so you can pretend it isn't happening.

Do Right, Be Right. :)
SIX, there is NOTHING IN THE ARTICLE ABOUT THE GRAVY TRAIN COMING TO A SUDDEN HALT BECAUSE OF COVID-19. THERE IS NOTHING IN THERE ABOUT THE USA AT ALL. YOUR READING COMPREHENSION HAS GOTTEN AS BAD AS GSTRING'S.

I put it in caps hoping it would catch your short attention span.

YOU were the one who extended the article waaaaaay beyond truthfulness. Go back, re-read it, and stop making shit up, m'kay?

Article link: /world-face-multiple-famines-biblical-proportions-coronavirus-crisis/

Article title: UN Leader Says the World Could Face 'Famines of Biblical Proportions' amid Coronavirus Crisis

Article sub title: “While dealing with a COVID-19 pandemic, we are also on the brink of a hunger pandemic,” David Beasley, the director of the UN World Food Program warned

Quote from Director of UN World Food Program: “There is also a real danger that more people could potentially die from the economic impact of COVID-19 than from the virus itself,” he warned.

Further down the article: The WFP already estimated that in 2020, nearly 135 million people would be facing starvation.

With the addition of the coronavirus pandemic, Beasley is sounding the alarm that there could be an additional 130 million people “pushed to the brink of starvation.”

Last paragraph of the article: “The truth is, we do not have time on our side,” he continued to warn. “I do believe that with our expertise and partnerships, we can bring together the teams and the programs necessary to make certain the COVID-19 pandemic does not become a humanitarian and food crisis catastrophe.”

I don't know what article you read, but it certainly wasn't the one I linked. The whole fucking article says exactly what I said it says. It HEAVILY implies that the actions taken to prevent the spread of The Coomph will be directly responsible for the starvation deaths of some 130 million people if we don't open stuff back up soon.

And I never said it was just the US shutting down alone causing this (and neither did the article). It's the entire civilized Western World shutting down and ceasing aid overnight.

Again, I'll state that we shouldn't be doing that in the first place. But when the spigit is shut off immediately, people will starve al

SIGNYM

Thursday, April 30, 2020 7:23 AM

SIX, WHERE DOES IT SAY ANYTHING ABOUT THE "FREE SHIT" GRAVY TRAIN FROM THE WEST COMING TO A HALT BEING THE CAUSE OF STARVATION?

IT DOESN'T

Many nations at risk from starvation, as the article points out, are ALREADY at risk from starvation. THEY THEMSELVES HAVE THEIR OWN LOCKDOWNS. India has a lockdown. Malaysia has a lockdown. Iran has a lockdown. Phlippines has a lockdown. Ecuador. Vietnam. South Africa. Colombia. Argentina. Morocco. Kenya. Thailand is under curfew. And more.

What?

You thought "lockdowns" only happened in the panicky, developed, karen-filled, risk-averse west???

These nations at risk of starvation have their own covid-19 policies. They are at risk because of their own economic status and their own policies, not because of anything the west is doing because of covid.

Many of those nations, with or without lockdown, are experiencing such disruption from mass deaths that their own internal economies are put under strain. On top of that, they have (predatory) western loans to service and (predatory) contracts with the west to fill.

The statement is a giant donation request. They just want MORE money from the west.

Yanno, it would help if you got your head outta your ass on this topic.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK

1KIKI

Thursday, April 30, 2020 7:38 AM

And what did he think was the root cause? It wasn't because western nations suddenly stopped the gravy train.

The title of his talk was “Protection of civilians from conflict-induced hunger”.

https://insight.wfp.org/wfp-chief-warns-of-hunger-pandemic-as-global-f
ood-crises-report-launched-3ee3edb38e47

Quote:
Speaking at an online briefing broadcast by the UN on YouTube, Facebook and Twitter, Beasley highlighted the fact that there are CURRENTLY 821 million food-insecure people in the world. “If we don’t prepare and act now, to secure access, avoid funding shortfalls and disruptions to trade,” he said, the result could be a “humanitarian catastrophe … in a short few months”.

Beasley added: “Millions of civilians living in conflict-scarred nations, including many women and children, face being pushed to the brink of starvation, with the spectre of famine a very real and dangerous possibility.”

His talked was based on the WFP report

https://insight.wfp.org/covid-19-will-almost-double-people-in-acute-hu
nger-by-end-of-2020-59df0c4a8072

which said

Quote:
The greatest worry is for people living in conflict zones and those forced from their homes and into refugee camps, with countries of concern including northeastern Nigeria, South Sudan, Syria and Yemen.

“These are the people I’m most worried about,” said Husain. “They did not need COVID-19. Even without it their lives were hanging by a thread. They literally depend on us for their lives. If we cannot get to them for any reason they end up paying the ultimate price. We need to prioritize the people and make sure we’re there. Because if it’s not us, it’s no one else.”

It's not about people routinely subsisting on the western gravy train.

6IXSTRINGJACK

Thursday, April 30, 2020 7:44 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
SIX, WHERE DOES IT SAY ANYTHING ABOUT THE "FREE SHIT" GRAVY TRAIN FROM THE WEST COMING TO A HALT BEING THE CAUSE OF STARVATION?

IT DOESN'T

Read it again. It does.

It said there were already 135 million people. Now there are 265 million people.

Stop playing dumb. You're not dumb. It doesn't suit you.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

1KIKI

Thursday, April 30, 2020 7:48 AM

Quote:
JACK:
Read it again. It does.

No it doesn't.

1KIKI

Thursday, April 30, 2020 10:58 PM

https://www.statnews.com/2020/04/30/coronavirus-death-projections-comp
are-causes-of-death/

One (model) stands out for the fact that it is not associated with a big-name institution. Produced by independent data scientist Youyang Gu, it has been tracking actual U.S. cases and deaths better than many.

Gu’s model projects that U.S. Covid-19 deaths by early August could be as low as 88,217 and as high as 293,381, with a most likely toll of 150,760.

With U.S. deaths from Covid-19 passing 61,000 this week, the question is as difficult as ever: Are these large numbers or small numbers?

So far this season, flu deaths total 24,000 to 62,000 (data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention are estimates with wide uncertainties). Whether you think a tally as much as 12 times higher is a tragedy or merely unfortunate is a personal call. For comparison, about 8,000 Americans die every day from, almost overwhelmingly, diseases and other natural causes. Those, of course, haven’t stopped; Covid-19 deaths are in addition to those ...

1KIKI

Friday, May 1, 2020 6:25 AM

Singapore was among the countries that originally seemed to have SAS-COV-2 well under control. Now, looking at 91-DIVOC, it seems to be on an unstoppable explosion, albeit at low levels compared to other countries. But low numbers are deceiving, as even the most devastated countries started at low levels. Direction is important!

(Singapore's total cases on a log scale are on an steep slope upward with no 'bend' visible.) Or, as headlined April 20, 2020 " Singapore tops Southeast Asia in terms of COVID-19 infections, with a record 1,426 cases announced on April 20 raising its total to 8,014."

20 April 2020
https://en.vietnamplus.vn/singapore-posts-highest-covid19-infections-i
n-southeast-asia/172041.vnp

18 April 2020
https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/singapore-covid-19-outb
reak-evolved-coronavirus-deaths-timeline-12639444
4 Jan 4 - 1 Feb 2020 increasing travel, entry, and quarantine restrictions and screening for travelers
4 Feb 2020 first travel-related cluster of cases and community spread leads to increased internal and external screening as well as cancellation of voluntary interschool activities
1 Feb 2020 "All mass activities should be suspended" and dormitories (purpose-built slums for foreign workers) are to be cleaned more regularly and common spaces should have staggered use
17 Feb - 12 March 2020 Stay at home orders for travelers are made mandatory, more clusters emerge

senior-centric activities are suspended for 2 weeks, mosques - as centers of infection - are closed
13 March 2020 general safe-distancing measures announced, all events of 250+ people are cancelled
15 March - 20 March 2020 new clusters emerge with unknown sources, more countries are added to the 14-day stay at home list for travelers, travel abroad is encouraged to be deferred
20 March 2020 expanded mandatory safe distancing measures rolled out, with business enforcement and penalties
24 March 2020 all entertainment venues are to close, religious gatherings are to be cancelled, tuition centers are to close, returning travelers are to be quarantined in separate facilities
more clusters of domestic cases and in dormitories are found
31 March 2020 people are urged to stay at home as much as possible
2 April 2020 safe distancing measures are introduced in markets
7 Apr to 4 May 2020 CIRCUIT BREAKER INSTITUTED Only essential services can be open, all schools will close, masks should be used when people leave the house for essential needs, but Singaporeans are urged to stay at home as much as possible

16 April 2020
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/singapore-had-the-coronaviru
s-under-control-now-its-locking-down-the-country/ar-BB12ITcq
Last month, it appeared that Singapore had managed to keep a lid on coronavirus infections through a system that included exhaustive contact tracing, early travel restrictions and strict social distancing measures. Though it was one of the worst-hit places in the early stages of the pandemic, the country managed to keep cases to fewer than 390 and had zero deaths until March 21, nearly two months after it reported its first coronavirus infection.
Until early April, Singapore was one of a few countries that refrained from closing schools, pointing to early research that suggested children aren't as vulnerable to the COVID-19 disease as adults, even as more than 150 countries had shut down their educational institutions.
Since then, Singapore's confirmed cases have risen dramatically.
The semi-lockdown came after Singapore witnessed an explosion of confirmed coronavirus cases, from 106 infections on March 1 to 1,000 on April 1. Those figures indicate most infections were transmitted locally and that a growing number of cases have no known links to confirmed patients.
On Wednesday, Singa

6IXSTRINGJACK

Friday, May 1, 2020 6:32 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by 1KIKI:
Quote:
JACK:
Read it again. It does.
No it doesn't.

Yes. It does.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

1KIKI

Friday, May 1, 2020 6:44 AM

South Korea, Vietnam, and Taiwan still have the virus well-controlled; Japan like Singapore has experienced a sudden sustained spike, albeit, like Singapore, at low levels relative to most countries.

1KIKI

Friday, May 1, 2020 6:44 AM

Quote:
JACK:
Read it again. It does.

Quote:
Originally posted by 1KIKI:
No it doesn't.

Quote:
JACK:

Yes. It does.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

lol

6IXSTRINGJACK

Friday, May 1, 2020 8:19 AM

Quote:
JACK:
Read it again. It does.

Quote:
1KIKI:
No it doesn't.

Quote:
JACK:
Yes. It does.

Quote:
1KIKI: lol

lol

Do Right, Be Right. :)

SIGNYM

Friday, May 1, 2020 5:17 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 1KIKI:
South Korea, Vietnam, and Taiwan still have the virus well-controlled; Japan like Singapore has experienced a sudden sustained spike, albeit, like Singapore, at low levels relative to most countries.

I see Sweden has equalled or surpassed Netherlands and Ireland in deaths/MM population.
Next to catch up to: France and Italy.
GO SWEDEN!
YOU CAN DO IT!

*****

Meanwhile, in the UK, the number of deaths/MM has taken a significant jump up in that last update. I find that unusual so far in their epidemic, and with so many cases already counted it must mean a very large increase in absolute numbers.

Every time I see an increase like that, I wonder what happened a month or so beforehand. Was there a significant holiday? Or have they just gotten better at counting Covid-19 deaths?

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK

JAYNEZTOWN

Friday, May 1, 2020 6:06 PM

I think Sweden is fucked

Way too boastful on tv and shameless

one of the reasons it spread so rapidly in places like Spain and Italy you have that incubation period where the virus spreads and at the same time the person does not look sick, but is also because they are very touchy feely people, kisses on the cheeks big hugs in those Latin South European places

However it spread randily in those colder, stand off ice-man cultures too

if it can spread rapidly in Japan, England, Netherlands
its now happening in Sweden

They are nowhere near to herd immunity

Their media claims its government policy is to have created herd immunity

They are already on that higher end of the scale on deaths per captia

Sweden has basically accepted that the old Natives the weaker Swede will die off, their more susceptible population is going to be killed.

6IXSTRINGJACK

Friday, May 1, 2020 6:18 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by JAYNEZTOWN:
I think Sweden is fucked

Nah.

2,586 deaths out of 10,230,000 people isn't fucked.

They're not going to ever be any worse off than NYC was, and at the end of the day it really wasn't that bad there despite all he pissing and moaning.

This is hardly a doomsday scenario. Let's go back to our lives now.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

SIGNYM

Saturday, May 2, 2020 6:41 PM

SOME MUTATIONS FAR DEADLIER THAN OTHERS

Quote:
Shocking Study Finds Coronavirus Mutations That Are Much Deadlier Than The Original

A group of researchers at Zhejiang University, a top-flight research university situated in Hangzhou, the capital of the eastern coastal Chinese province of Zhejiang, have made what just might be remembered as a critical breakthrough in our understanding of the wide range of symptoms that patients face.

Studies have suggested that as up to half of those who have been infected with the virus might be "asymptomatic", a categorization that includes those who experienced extremely mild symptoms, often resembling a bad cold or a mild fever. Now, this team of scientists has discovered 31 new mutated strains of the virus that might explain the stubbornly high mortality rates in parts of Europe and New York.

According to the South China Morning Post, some of the mutant strains exhibited a much more dangerous capacity to invade human cells, implying that certain strains might be much more lethal than others. What's more, these strains were found to be "genetically similar" to samples isolated in New York and places like Italy in Europe.

Critically, the study, led by Professor Li Lanjuan, the first Chinese academic to recommend a complete shutdown to fight the virus, showed for the first time a probable link between the type of strain that infects a patient and the level of brutality of the symptoms they face.

This is nothing short of a breakthrough - though it's being underplayed in the American press, probably because health journalists are grappling with a confusing paradox: Dr. Fauci said last month that there was "no evidence" of deadly mutations, yet these researchers have found exactly that - though of course this research has yet to be replicated or peer reviewed.

"Sars-CoV-2 has acquired mutations capable of substantially changing its pathogenicity," Li and her team wrote in their non-peer-reviewed paper which was published by the preprint service medRxiv.org, another top research for non-peer-reviewed research, along with the Lancet.

Li took an unusual approach to investigate the virus mutation. She analysed the viral strains isolated from 11 randomly chosen Covid-19 patients from Hangzhou in the eastern province of Zhejiang, and then tested how efficiently they could infect and kill cells.

The deadliest mutations in the Zhejiang patients had also been found in most patients across Europe, while the milder strains were the predominant varieties found in parts of the United States, such as Washington state, according to their paper.

A separate study had found that New York strains had been imported from Europe. The death rate in New York was similar to that in many European countries, if not worse.

But the weaker mutation did not mean a lower risk for everybody, according to Li’s study. In Zhejiang, two patients in their 30s and 50s who contracted the weaker strain became severely ill. Although both survived in the end, the elder patient needed treatment in an intensive care unit.

Li's study involved a notably small number of strains, only a few dozen were investigated, as opposed to hundreds or thousands of strains in some major studies of new viruses. However, she still managed to find what appears to be a definite link that could shed new light - or unearth new complications in the quest to finding a cure or a vaccine. Li's team attributed these "functional changes" in the different strains to variations in the "viral-spike protein" - aka the "spikes" on the "ball" used to represent SARS-CoV-2.

Li’s team detected more than 30 mutations. Among them 19 mutations – or about 60 per cent – were new.

They found some of these mutations could lead to functional changes in the virus’ spike protein, a unique structure over the viral envelope enabling the coronavirus to bind with human cells. Computer simulation predicted that these mutation

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SIGNYM

Saturday, May 2, 2020 6:45 PM

Quote:
New Coronavirus Study Claims Outbreak Will Last Longer Than 2 Years [until] 2/3rds Of Humanity Infected

It's been a while since we saw a study projecting an extremely dire endgame for the coronavirus outbreak.

Yet, as the battle over whether to reopen immediately or wait a few more weeks becomes almost universally-partisan, a non-peer-reviewed study out of the midwest projected that the virus could kick around for another 2 years, and that the outbreak won't subside until more than 60% of the global population is immune, Bloomberg reports.

According to the research from the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy at the University of Minnesota, the coronavirus pandemic is likely to last as long as two years and won’t be controlled until about two-thirds of the world’s population is immune.

The report was written by CIDRAP director Michael Osterholm and medical director Kristen Moore, Tulane University public health historian John Barry, and Harvard epidemiologist Marc Lipsitch, whose name has appeared on other important coronavirus research and commentary.

Furthermore, because so many of those infected by the virus are asymptomatic or mostly asymptomatic, lockdowns and other aggressive measures might not be enough to stamp it out completely. This 'invisibility' is what makes SARS-CoV-2 such a challenging virus to contain.

This might help explain why Sweden's approach has been so popular, while offering perhaps the best argument yet for why states might as well reopen. According to the researchers, the virus will likely keep on coming in waves perhaps until the end of 2022, or even longer, as drug companies scramble to develop a vaccine, or a cure.

Because of its ability to spread from person to person without the presence of symptoms, the virus will likely be much harder to control than the flu. The virus is deadlier than the flu, too - and certain mutated strains have been found to be significantly more virulent.

According to the report, people might actually be at their most infectious before symptoms even start to appear.

"Risk communication messaging from government officials should incorporate the concept that this pandemic will not be over soon," they said, “and that people need to be prepared for possible periodic resurgences of disease over the next two years."

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/new-coronavirus-study-claims-ou
tbreak-will-last-longer-2-years-23rds-humanity-infected

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK

SIGNYM

Saturday, May 2, 2020 6:57 PM

About India's response to Covid-19 (See SIX? Poor nations have tbeir own response to. and discussions about, Covid-19. And none of it is about "free shit" from the west coming to a halt.)

Quote:
There Is No Exit From COVID-19, Only Containment

Authored by M.K.Bhadrakumar via The Indian Punchline blog,

From this point, the buck stops with the Modi government, as the country trudges along the Covid highway. The political move to tap into the residual spirit of Indian federalism in our highly polarised polity helped so far, as the central government could inject into its decisions a look of national consensus. Whereas, the central government took all major decisions and most minor decisions.

However, the physical or material conditions vary from state to state while on the other hand, the time is approaching for the central government to make a thorny decision — when or how to restart the economy that was shut down almost overnight.

Clearly, an economy of India’s size won’t start back up simply because the government so decided. The refrain is that the restart will be gradual. But the devil lies in the details. Under what circumstances will businesses be allowed to reopen? It seems certain regions and businesses / industries may be put on a fast track. The MSME sector, which employs 12 crore workers need special attention.

However, defining a yardstick will be difficult because the economy is a complex web of supply chains and interlocking pieces with a dynamics of their own. In an interview with the BBC Radio last week, the owner of Mahindra & Mahindra said he just couldn’t see any possibility of his company becoming operational before May 2021, since, amongst other things, it doesn’t make sense to make cars without the numerous suppliers and sales outlets first reviving and, importantly, until consumer confidence revives.

Clearly, epidemiologists’ recommendations or the government’s decisions will not be the last word. If a manufacturer in Chennai depends on a part made in Ahmedabad, for example, where the virus is still spreading, a government fiat to start production becomes meaningless. Simply put, it is going to take much longer to thaw the economy than it took to freeze it.

Then, there is the co-relation between a phased reopening of the economy and public health benchmarks. The best that can be said about the lockdown is that it probably slowed down the spread of the virus. But we’re chasing a chimera here. The authenticity of the figures available is in serious doubt. No one is to blame because tracking the coronavirus is difficult in such abnormal conditions of lockout.

Today’s New York Times reported that the coronavirus death toll in the US is actually far higher than reported. The FT also came out with a stunning report today that Britain’s actual death toll could be plausibly in the region of 41000, as against hospital death data that show 17,337 people having died.

The plain truth is that there is no “exit strategy” possible out of the lockdown in the absence of a vaccine or a proven therapy.

“We will have to learn to live with the virus,” French Prime Minister Édouard Philippe put it starkly on April 28, while outlining his plan to start reopening the country at the National Assembly in Paris, until a vaccine or effective treatment is available.

This stark reality ought to leave with the Indian states a free hand to develop their own road maps and decide either to persist in lockdown or pull themselves out in different ways and at different speed. What cannot be overlooked is that all this is taking place under the threat of a second global wave or outbreak — a disaster scenario.

Epidemics come in waves. In the Spanish flu pandemic of 1918, the deadliest in history, the first wave was nothing in comparison with the virulent second wave, which left a horrific trail. No doubt, this is a Catch-22 situation — whether suppressing the virus further to stall a repeat outbreak or the lifting of restrictions quicker to limit the economic fallout s

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6IXSTRINGJACK

Saturday, May 2, 2020 9:08 PM

When I think of a poor third world country, India never comes to mind, and it's certainly not a country I'm ever bringing up.

I lost my last high paying job because the management wanted to take my salary and pay 10 people with much more higher education than I ever got to work in their Chennai branch. One of the guys who was from India and lived here a few years to learn as much as he could and go back to teach his people more about the business (His name was Harish, and I called him by his name, but everybody else called him Harry), told me all about life back home. If you were making $6,000 per year (back around 2007) you were living like a king. Money went a lot farther. You could buy a car for $5,000. We both smoked, and he told me a pack of cigarettes back home was $0.20, when around that time because of tax increases here we were starting to see $6.00 per pack.

They are nowhere near the level of development of the US, but they're also not at all the poorer nations of Africa and South America I'm referring to.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

1KIKI

Sunday, May 3, 2020 1:33 AM

New post-stay-at-home regime.
The City of Los Angeles still requires masks in pubic.
LACounty still recommends them, and it's enforced by most stores and other businesses.
The State of California still has active stay-at-home notices.

Los Angeles County
There's a lag time of about 4 weeks between infection and death.

http://www.publichealth.lacounty.gov/media/Coronavirus/

Quote:
As of 8pm 5/21
cases ~~~
deaths ~~~

Quote:
As of 8pm 5/20
cases ~~~
deaths ~~~

Quote:
As of 8pm 5/19
cases 40,857
deaths 1,970

Quote:
As of 8pm 5/18
cases 37,566
deaths 1,913

Quote:
As of 8pm 5/17
cases 38,451
deaths 1,839

Quote:
As of 8pm 5/16
cases 37974
deaths 1821

Quote:
As of 8pm 5/15
cases 37,303
deaths 1,793

Quote:
As of 8pm 5/14
cases 36,259
deaths 1,755

Quote:
As of 8pm 5/13
cases 35,329
deaths 1,709

Quote:
As of 8pm 5/12
cases 34,428
deaths 1,659

Quote:
As of 8pm 5/11
cases 33,180
deaths 1,613

Quote:
As of 8pm 5/10
cases 32,258
deaths 1,569

Quote:
As of 8pm 5/9
cases 31,677
deaths 1,530

Quote:
As of 8pm 5/8
cases 31,197
deaths 1,512

Quote:
As of 8pm 5/7
cases 30,296
deaths 1,468

Quote:
As of 8pm 5/6
cases 29,427
deaths 1,418

Quote:
As of 8pm 5/5
cases 1,367
deaths 28,644

Quote:
As of 8pm 5/4
cases 27,815
deaths 1,313

Quote:
As of 8pm 5/3
cases 26,217
deaths 1,256

Quote:
As of 8pm 5/2
cases 25,662
deaths 1229

===> May 1, 2020 All state beaches and parks in California ordered closed.

Quote:
As of 12pm* 5/1
cases 24894*
deaths 1209*

1KIKI

Sunday, May 3, 2020 1:48 AM

New post-stay-at-home regime.
The City of Los Angeles still requires masks in pubic.
LACounty still recommends them, and it's enforced by most stores and other businesses.
The State of California still has active stay-at-home notices.

California

There's a lag time of about 4 weeks between infection and death.

https://www.cdph.ca.gov/Programs/OPA/Pages/New-Release-2020.aspx

May 21, 2020
~~~~ / ~~~~
May 20, 2020
~~~~ / ~~~~
May 19, 2020
84,057 / 3,436
===> California Department of Public Health Announces New Regional Variance Opportunity
May 18, 2020
81,795 / 3,334
May 17, 2020
80,430 / 3,302
May 16, 2020
78,839 / 3,261
May 15, 2020
76,793 / 3,204
May 14, 2020
74,936 / 3,108
May 13, 2020
73,164 / 3,032
May 12, 2020
71,141 / 2,934
May 11, 2020
69,382 / 2,847
May 10, 2020
67,939 / 2,770
May 9, 2020
66,680 / 2,745
===> May 8, 2020 General statewide staged opening begins for counties meeting criteria.
May 8, 2020
64,561 / 2,678
May 7, 2020
62,512 / 2,585
===> May 6, 2020 Huntington Beach, Dana Point and Seal Beach reopen.
May 6, 2020
60,614 / 2504
===> May 5, 2020 San Clemente and Laguna Beaches reopen.
May 5, 2020
58,815 / 2,412
May 4, 2020
56,212 / 2,317
===> May 4, 2020 Yuba and Sutter counties reopen.
May 3, 2020
54,937 / 2,254
May 2, 2020
53,616 / 1,215
===> May 1, 2020 All state beaches and parks in California ordered closed.
===> May 1, 2020 Modoc county reopens.
May 1, 2020
52,197 / 2/171

1KIKI

Sunday, May 3, 2020 2:17 AM

US - states with greater than 3,000 total cases
New post-stay-at-home regime.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

As of May 20, 2020
New York 363,517 28,816
New Jersey 152,096 10,747
Illinois 100,418 4,525
Massachusetts 88,970 6,066
California 85,885 3,512
Pennsylvania 68,151 4,822
Michigan 53,009 5,060
Texas 51,651 1,423
Florida 47,471 2,096
Maryland 42,323 2,123
Georgia 39,801 1,697
Connecticut 39,017 3,529
Louisiana 35,316 2,608
Virginia 32,908 1,074
Ohio 29,436 1,781
Indiana 29,274 1,864
Colorado 22,797 1,299
North Carolina 20,261 726
Washington 19,822 1,036
Tennessee 18,532 309
Minnesota 17,670 786
Iowa 15,620 393
Arizona 14,897 747
Wisconsin 13,413 481
Rhode Island 13,356 538
Alabama 12,744 517
Mississippi 11,967 570
Missouri 11,513 644
Nebraska 11,122 138
South Carolina 9,175 407
Kansas 8,504 202
Delaware 8,194 310
Kentucky 8,167 376
Utah 7,710 90
DC 7,551 407
Nevada 7,166 373
New Mexico 6,317 283
Oklahoma 5,532 299
Arkansas 5,003 107
South Dakota 4,177 46
New Hampshire 3,868 190
Oregon 3,801 144

As of May 19, 2020
New York 363,517 28,816
New Jersey 152,096 10,747
Illinois 100,418 4,525
Massachusetts 88,970 6,066
California 85,885 3,512
Pennsylvania 68,151 4,822
Michigan 53,009 5,060
Texas 51,651 1,423
Florida 47,471 2,096
Maryland 42,323 2,123
Georgia 39,801 1,697
Connecticut 39,017 3,529
Louisiana 35,316 2,608
Virginia 32,908 1,074
Ohio 29,436 1,781
Indiana 29,274 1,864
Colorado 22,797 1,299
North Carolina 20,261 726
Washington 19,822 1,036
Tennessee 18,532 309
Minnesota 17,670 786
Iowa 15,620 393
Arizona 14,897 747
Wisconsin 13,413 481
Rhode Island 13,356 538
Alabama 12,744 517
Mississippi 11,967 570
Missouri 11,513 644
Nebraska 11,122 138
South Carolina 9,175 407
Kansas 8,504 202
Delaware 8,194 310
Kentucky 8,167 376
Utah 7,710 90
DC 7,551 407
Nevada 7,166 373
New Mexico 6,317 283
Oklahoma 5,532 299
Arkansas 5,003 107
South Dakota 4,177 46
New Hampshire 3,868 190
Oregon 3,801 144

As of May 18, 2020
New York 361,266 28,480
New Jersey 150,087 10,448
Illinois 96,485 4,234
Massachusetts 87,052 5,862
California 81,711 3,321
Pennsylvania 66,674 4,668
Michigan 51,915 4,915
Texas 49,684 1,369
Florida 46,442 1,997
Maryland 39,762 2,023
Georgia 38,283 1,649
Connecticut 38,116 3,449
Louisiana 34,709 2,563
Virginia 31,140 1,014
Ohio 28,485 1,660
Indiana 28,255 1,765
Colorado 22,202 1,224
Washington 19,510 1,019
North Carolina 19,208 693
Tennessee 18,011 301
Minnesota 16,372 740
Iowa 15,083 364
Arizona 14,170 686
Rhode Island 12,795 506
Wisconsin 12,687 459
Alabama 12,086 489
Mississippi 11,432 528
Missouri 11,203 612
Nebraska 10,625 125
South Carolina 8,942 391
Kansas 8,340 198
Kentucky 7,935 346
Delaware 7,869 297
Utah 7,384 80
DC 7,270 392
Nevada 6,906 358
New Mexico 6,096 270
Oklahoma 5,398 288
Arkansas 4,813 100
South Dakota 4,027 44
Oregon 3,687 138
New Hampshire 3,652 172

As of May 17, 2020
New York 359,847 28,325
New Jersey 148,197 10,366
Illinois 94,191 4,177
Massachusetts 86,010 5,797
California 80,265 3,289
Pennsylvania 65,816 4,503
Michigan 51,142 4,891
Texas 48,677 1,360
Florida 45,588 1,973
Maryland 38,804 1,992
Georgia 37,701 1,609
Connecticut 37,419 3,408
Louisiana 34,432 2,491
Virginia 30,388 1,009
Ohio 27,929 1,628
Indiana 27,778 1,751
Colorado 21,938 1,215
Washington 19,283 1,016
North Carolina 18,659 684
Tennessee 17,388 298
Minnesota 15,668 731
Iowa 14,651 351
Arizona 13,937 680
Rhode Island 12,674 499
Wisconsin 12,543 453
Alabama 11,771 488
Mississippi 11,296 521
Missouri 11,057 604
Nebraska 10,348 123
South Carolina 8,816 385
Kansas 7,951 195
Kentucky 7,688 334
Delaware 7,670 290
Utah 7,238 80
DC

1KIKI

Sunday, May 3, 2020 2:23 AM

US
New post-stay-at-home regime.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/
https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda75
94740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6

Last updated: May 21, 2020
1,~~~,~~~ / 9~,~~~
1,~~~,~~~ / 9~,~~~

Last updated: May 20, 2020
1,591,991 / 94,994
1,551,102 / 93,416

Last updated: May 19, 2020
1,570,000 / 93,400
1,523,534 / 91,570

Last updated: May 18, 2020
1,550,294 / 91,981
1,504,386 / 90,194

Last updated: May 17, 2020
1,527,664 / 90,978
1,480,873 / 89,318

Last updated: May 16, 2020
1,507,773 / 90,113
1,463,350 / 88,447

Last updated: May 15, 2020
1,484,285 / 88,507
1,432,045 / 86,851

Last updated: May 14, 2020
1,457,593 / 86,912
1,415,894 / 85,807

Last updated: May 13, 2020
1,430,348 / 85,197
1,389,935 / 84,059

Last updated: May 12, 2020
1,408,636 / 83,425
1,359,319 / 81,847

Last updated: May 11, 2020
1,385,834 / 81,795
1,359,319 / 81,847

Last updated: May 10, 2020
1,367,638 / 80,787
1,326,138 / 79,528

Last updated: May 9, 2020
1,347,309 / 80,037
1,297,549 / 77,744

Last updated: May 8, 2020
1,321,785 / 78,615
1,256,972 / 75,670

Last updated: May 7, 2020
1,292,623 / 76,928
1,231,943 / 73,566

Last updated: May 6, 2020
1,263,092 / 74,799
1,210,822 / 71,463

Last updated: May 5, 2020
1,237,633 / 72,271
1,192,119 / 70,115

Last updated: May 4, 2020
1,212,835 / 69,921
1,159,245 / 67,710

Last updated: May 3, 2020
1,188,122 / 68,598
1,143,433 / 66,760

Last updated: May 2, 2020
1,160,774 / 67,444
1,122,870 / 65,908

Last updated: May 1, 2020
1,131,030 / 65,753
1,100,000 / 63,000

1KIKI

Sunday, May 3, 2020 2:42 AM

world - countries with greater than 5,000 total cases
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries

Last updated: May 20, 2020
USA 1,591,991 94,994
Russia 308,705 2,972
Brazil 293,357 18,894
Spain 279,524 27,888
UK 248,293 35,704
Italy 227,364 32,330
France 181,575 28,132
Germany 178,531 8,270
Turkey 152,587 4,222
Iran 126,949 7,183
India 112,028 3,434
Peru 104,020 3,024
China 82,965 4,634
Canada 80,142 6,031
Saudi Arabia 62,545 339
Belgium 55,983 9,150
Mexico 54,346 5,666
Chile 53,617 544
Pakistan 45,898 985
Netherlands 44,447 5,748
Qatar 37,097 16
Ecuador 34,854 2,888
Belarus 32,426 179
Sweden 31,523 3,831
Switzerland 30,658 1,892
Portugal 29,660 1,263
Singapore 29,364 22
Bangladesh 26,738 386
UAE 26,004 233
Ireland 24,315 1,571
Poland 19,739 962
Ukraine 19,230 564
Indonesia 19,189 1,242
South Africa 18,003 339
Colombia 17,687 630
Kuwait 17,568 124
Romania 17,387 1,147
Israel 16,667 279
Japan 16,367 768
Austria 16,353 633
Egypt 14,229 680
Dominican Rep 13,477 446
Philippines 13,221 842
Denmark 11,117 554
S. Korea 11,110 263
Serbia 10,833 235
Panama 9,977 287
Argentina 9,283 403
Czechia 8,721 304
Norway 8,281 234
Afghanistan 8,145 187
Bahrain 7,888 12
Algeria 7,542 568
Morocco 7,133 194
Australia 7,079 100
Malaysia 7,009 114
Kazakhstan 6,969 35
Nigeria 6,677 200
Moldova 6,553 228
Finland 6,443 304
Ghana 6,269 31
Oman 6,043 30
Armenia 5,271 67

Last updated: May 19, 2020

Last updated: May 18, 2020
USA 1,550,294 91,981
Russia 290,678 2,722
Spain 278,188 27,709
Brazil 255,368 16,853
UK 246,406 34,796
Italy 225,886 32,007
France 179,927 28,239
Germany 177,289 8,123
Turkey 150,593 4,171
Iran 122,492 7,057
India 100,328 3,156
Peru 94,933 2,789
China 82,954 4,634
Canada 78,072 5,842
Saudi Arabia 57,345 320
Belgium 55,559 9,080
Mexico 49,219 5,177
Chile 46,059 478
Netherlands 44,141 5,694
Pakistan 42,125 903
Qatar 33,969 15
Ecuador 33,582 2,799
Switzerland 30,597 1,886
Belarus 30,572 171
Sweden 30,377 3,698
Portugal 29,209 1,231
Singapore 28,343 22
Ireland 24,200 1,547
UAE 24,190 224
Bangladesh 23,870 349
Poland 18,885 936
Ukraine 18,616 535
Indonesia 18,010 1,191
Romania 17,036 1,120
Israel 16,643 276
South Africa 16,433 286
Japan 16,305 749
Colombia 16,295 592
Austria 16,269 629
Kuwait 15,691 118
Egypt 12,764 645
Dominican Rep 12,725 434
Philippines 12,718 831
S. Korea 11,065 263
Denmark 10,968 548
Serbia 10,699 231
Panama 9,606 275
Czechia 8,586 297
Argentina 8,371 382
Norway 8,257 233
Algeria 7,201 555
Bahrain 7,184 12
Afghanistan 7,072 173
Australia 7,060 99
Morocco 6,952 192
Malaysia 6,941 113
Kazakhstan 6,440 35
Finland 6,380 300
Nigeria 6,175 191
Moldova 6,138 217
Ghana 5,735 29
Oman 5,379 25

Last updated: May 17, 2020
USA 1,527,664 90,978
Russia 281,752 2,631
Spain 277,719 27,650
UK 243,695 34,636
Brazil 241,080 16,118
Italy 225,435 31,908
France 179,569 28,108
Germany 176,651 8,049
Turkey 149,435 4,140
Iran 120,198 6,988
India 95,698 3,025
Peru 92,273 2,648
China 82,947 4,634
Canada 77,002 5,782
Belgium 55,280 9,052
Saudi Arabia 54,752 312
Mexico 47,144 5,045
Netherlands 43,995 5,680
Chile 43,781 450
Pakistan 40,151 873
Ecuador 33,182 2,736
Qatar 32,604 15
Switzerland 30,587 1,881
Sweden 30,143 3,679
Belarus 29,650 165
Portugal 29,036 1,218
Singapore 28,038 22
Ireland 24,112 1,543
UAE 23,358 220
Bangladesh 22,268 328
Poland 18,529 925
Ukraine 18,291 514
Indonesia 17,514 1,148
Romania 16,871 1,107
Israel 16,617 272
Japan 16,285 744
Austria 16,242 629
Colombia 15,574 574
South Africa 15,515 264
Kuwait 14,850 112
Philippines 12,513 824
Dominican Rep 12,314 428

6IXSTRINGJACK

Sunday, May 3, 2020 3:21 AM

Not that anybody should ever give two shits what the WHO says about anything since they've proven themselves to be worthless and purely agenda driven...

But I did find it interesting that the are now praising Sweden for not locking things down.

WTF do you suppose that is all about?

Do Right, Be Right. :)

1KIKI

Sunday, May 3, 2020 5:10 AM

JACK, you avoided all of the facts in the article, especially the ones very particular to Sweden.

Quote:
https://www.foxnews.com/world/who-sweden-which-avoided-mass-coronaviru
s-lockdowns-should-be-model-for-the-world

Ryan, who serves as executive director of WHO's Emergencies Program, praised Sweden's health care system and credited it with making all the right moves from the beginning of the outbreak.

"They've been doing the testing, they've ramped up their capacity to do intensive care quite significantly," he added. "And their health system has always remained within its capacity to respond to the number of cases that they've been experiencing."

"Sweden has put in place a very strong public policy around social distancing, around caring and protecting for people in long term care facilities and many other things," he said.

“What it has done differently is it has very much relied on its relationship with its citizenry and the ability and willingness of citizens to implement physical distancing and to self-regulate."

None of that is remotely true of the US, not even the simplest things. For example, there are STILL not enough masks for healthcare workers.

But Sweden has even more going for it. To reiterate:

Quote:
... Sweden isn't the US. More than half of Sweden's residences house just one person. A quarter of Sweden's workers work from home, a third of them do in Stockholm, and 90% do for the largest companies. It has no large metropolises. Its very largest city, Stockholm, has about 1M people, the same size as San Jose, California. 90% of Swedes say they're socially isolating due to SARS-COV-2.

With all that going for it, Sweden, with a population of 1M has over 2,100 deaths, and heading sharply up. Norway, with a similar setting to Sweden and a population of 0.5M has 200 deaths, or less than 1/5 of Sweden's on a per capita basis and slowly increasing. And Los Angeles County, with a vastly different culture and 10M inhabitants, has 800 deaths or quite a bit less than half of Sweden, on a per capita basis, on a similar slope with Norway.

Social isolation works.

So Sweden, despite being a model which btw the US will never emulate in the least bit, has a per-capita death rate on par with Germany, and that's still rapidly accelerating, while everyone else has 'bent the curve'.

Also, I noticed you had nothing to say about the good treatment and vaccine news, despite the fact that it could lead more quickly to a more normal life for everyone, and you too, of course. I almost think you were disappointed that the maximum number of old and 'weak' people might not be cleared out of your way.

1KIKI

Sunday, May 3, 2020 5:20 AM

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/01/opinion/sunday/coronavirus-herd-imm
unity.html

What the Proponents of ‘Natural’ Herd Immunity Don’t Say
Try to reach it without a vaccine, and millions will die.

By Carl T. Bergstrom and Natalie Dean
Dr. Bergstrom is a professor of biology at the University of Washington. Dr. Dean is an assistant professor of biostatistics at the University of Florida.

The coronavirus moved so rapidly across the globe partly because no one had prior immunity to it. Failure to check its spread will result in a catastrophic loss of lives. Yet some politicians, epidemiologists and commentators are advising that the most practical course of action is to manage infections while allowing so-called herd immunity to build.

The concept of herd immunity is typically described in the context of a vaccine. When enough people are vaccinated, a pathogen cannot spread easily through the population. If you are infected with measles but everyone you interact with has been vaccinated, transmission will be stopped in its tracks.

Vaccination levels must stay above a threshold that depends upon the transmissibility of the pathogen. We don’t yet know exactly how transmissible the coronavirus is, but say each person infects an average of three others. That would mean nearly two-thirds of the population would need to be immune to confer herd immunity.

In the absence of a vaccine, developing immunity to a disease like Covid-19 requires actually being infected with the coronavirus. For this to work, prior infection has to confer immunity against future infection. While hopeful, scientists are not yet certain that this is the case, nor do they know how long this immunity might last. The virus was discovered only a few months ago.

But even assuming that immunity is long-lasting, a very large number of people must be infected to reach the herd immunity threshold required. Given that current estimates suggest roughly 0.5 percent to 1 percent of all infections are fatal, that means a lot of deaths.

Perhaps most important to understand, the virus doesn’t magically disappear when the herd immunity threshold is reached. That’s not when things stop — it’s only when they start to slow down.

Once enough immunity has been built in the population, each person will infect fewer than one other person, so a new epidemic cannot start afresh. But an epidemic that is already underway will continue to spread. If 100,000 people are infectious at the peak and they each infect 0.9 people, that’s still 90,000 new infections, and more after that. A runaway train doesn’t stop the instant the track begins to slope uphill, and a rapidly spreading virus doesn’t stop right when herd immunity is attained.

If the pandemic went uncontrolled in the United States, it could continue for months after herd immunity was reached, infecting many more millions in the process.

By the time the epidemic ended, a very large proportion of the population would have been infected — far above our expected herd immunity threshold of around two-thirds. These additional infections are what epidemiologists refer to as “overshoot.”
After Herd Immunity ... More Infections

Herd immunity doesn’t stop a virus in its tracks. The number of infections continues to climb after herd immunity is reached.

Some countries are attempting strategies intended to “safely” build up population immunity to the coronavirus without a vaccine. Sweden, for instance, is asking older people and those with underlying health issues to self-quarantine but is keeping many schools, restaurants and bars open. Many commentators have suggested that this would also be a good policy for poorer countries like India. But given the fatality rate, there is no way to do this without huge numbers

SIGNYM

Sunday, May 3, 2020 6:15 AM

Quote:
When I think of a poor third world country, India never comes to mind, and it's certainly not a country I'm ever bringing up.

I lost my last high paying job because the management wanted to take my salary and pay 10 people with much more higher education than I ever got to work in their Chennai branch. One of the guys who was from India and lived here a few years to learn as much as he could and go back to teach his people more about the business (His name was Harish, and I called him by his name, but everybody else called him Harry), told me all about life back home. If you were making $6,000 per year (back around 2007) you were living like a king. Money went a lot farther. You could buy a car for $5,000. We both smoked, and he told me a pack of cigarettes back home was $0.20, when around that time because of tax increases here we were starting to see $6.00 per pack.

The reason WHY money goes a lot farther in India is BECAUSE many people are poor. About 65% of India's people still live in small villages without access to running water, for example.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK

6IXSTRINGJACK

Sunday, May 3, 2020 6:54 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by 1KIKI:

Also, I noticed you had nothing to say about the good treatment and vaccine news, despite the fact that it could lead more quickly to a more normal life for everyone, and you too, of course. I almost think you were disappointed that the maximum number of old and 'weak' people might not be cleared out of your way.

I've said since day one that this whole thing is a big nothing burger.

Why would I be excited about a vaccine?

Meanwhile, in Sweden...

2,669 Coomph deaths in a population of 10,230,000.

Wowie! We're all going to die.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

1KIKI

Sunday, May 3, 2020 9:23 AM

Quote:
JACK:
Meanwhile, in Sweden...

2,669 Coomph deaths in a population of 10,230,000.

2,669 dead out of 22,082 infected. What do you calculate will be the deaths if a mere 10% of the population is infected?

Meanwhile, you have yet to explain how anything to do with Sweden has anything to do with the US.

6IXSTRINGJACK

Sunday, May 3, 2020 7:09 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 1KIKI:
Quote:
JACK:
Meanwhile, in Sweden...

2,669 Coomph deaths in a population of 10,230,000.
2,669 dead out of 22,082 infected. What do you calculate will be the deaths if a mere 10% of the population is infected?

How do you know that 10% or more haven't already been infected?

Quote:
Meanwhile, you have yet to explain how anything to do with Sweden has anything to do with the US.

You can't compare one 500 square mile patch to another adjacent 500 square mile patch in the US.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

SIGNYM

Sunday, May 3, 2020 9:53 PM

I heard about the test results on Peak Prosperity, but not about the behind-the-scenes bullshit going on. Remdesivir does NOT lead to fewer deaths. In fact, by day 28 after the initiation of the drug, more people getting remdesivir died.

Quote:
"Remdesivir Is Probably Worthless" - A Trauma Surgeon Exposes "Drug Company's Shenanigans"
Sat, 05/02/2020 - 20:55

Markets got very excited (briefly) this week about a study finding a Gilead Sciences drug helped coronavirus patients heal a little more quickly.

But that was all the trial found: remdesivir isn’t the miracle cure that will get us all out of lockdowns tomorrow, unfortunately.

Worse, as Bloomberg's Faye Flam writes, the trial was rushed to get quick FDA approval, without getting helpful information on what kinds of patients it helps or hurts the most; and now that the study is over, we’ve forever lost a chance to help doctors treat virus patients better.

All of which raises a significant number of questions and Acute Care Surgeon (and Asst Professor of Surgery at Wash U.) Mark Hoofnagle warns "I am truly sorry to say, Remdesivir is probably worthless..."

In an excellent Twitter thread, Hoofnagle details what he calls "some fascinating drug company shenanigans."

First, the pre-test probability that an infused, small-molecule inhibitor of a virus would improve mortality in symptomatic patients was already pretty low. Unfortunately, antivirals work poorly in acute disease. This has to do with their mechanism of action, and host response.

Antivirals usually target some aspect of viral replication/assembly/transmission. Remdesivir is a clever pharmacologic prodrug that inhibits a key piece of RNA viruses that mammals don’t have - the RNA-dependent RNA polymerase, and inhibits viral replication.

Unfortunately, by the time you are symptomatic with a virus, you are usually already high/peak viral load. So, when you give an antiviral to someone who is already ill, the damage from the virus is largely done.

It’s there in big numbers and in the cells.

Consistent with this, the Lancet paper on the remdesivir trial in China shows no impact on viral load clinically.

Pick your metaphor. The cat is out of the bag. The damage is done. At this point the host response to virus is activated, and your body is suppressing replication through a variety of mechanisms (which also make you feel terrible).

So how could inhibiting RDRP after the fact help? The answer is, it probably doesnt. It certainly didn’t in this trial - no difference, not even a trend in mortality, but in subgroup analysis maybe shortened disease duration in early/mild disease.

Now, critics of stupid drugs that should never have been stockpiled by govts say, “sounds like Tamiflu!”

Yes. This is the same as Tamiflu, which also maybe shortens flu by a day, but otherwise is a largely useless antiviral (and actually harmful with bad side effect profile).

Fortunately, side effects of remdesivir did not seem severe in this trial with only about 3x as many patients stopping than placebo, some rashes, nothing life threatening.
Where do the Shenanigans come in?

Well, remember how maybe this Chinese trial showed a shortened course in a subset of patients? Like tamiflu? But didn’t change mortality?

Well a month ago the NIAID

Fauci's group

Quote:
trial changed their endpoints to remove death and instead look at dz duration.

No really.

They changed the destination half way through the race to match the only positive outcome of another trial, that they (or Gilead at least) certainly had a copy of the paper once it was submitted to Lancet.

Shenanigans! Get a broom!

Since NIH remdesivir trial is in the news...

was there an explanation about why the primary outcome (now positive) was changed last month to 'time until clinical recovery?' @matthewherper https://t.co/fCTc1EGI1d pic.twitter.com/W1hAACnO1r
— Walid Gellad,

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME

SIGNYM

Sunday, May 3, 2020 10:08 PM

Quote:
SIX:You can't compare one 500 square mile patch to another adjacent 500 square mile patch in the US.

And therefore you can't use NYC as a yardstick for when to open up other parts of the country.

Right?

What you CAN do is look at the underlying factors of where and how a region or sector failed, or succeeded, in keeping the virus under control while at the same time keeping their economies afloat and respecting individual liberties. But that requires an interest in knowing what's happening, and not denying reality. Right?

Also, maybe there is NO solution that avoids all negative consequences. Maybe some measures to keep the virus at bay while keeping econonies running will necessarily infringe on some individual liberties, like being made to wear masks - properly- in public. Maybe more money will need to be spent on cleaning subways and less money on elective surgery. Maybe the CDC will finally do its job and be a mandated repository for all deaths and all infections and all case histories where doctors and therapists tried different things (like anticoagulants) and whether those trials succeeded or failed, instead of having to be shared in chatroomsand conference calls. Maybe some people will die. Maybe a bunch of McJobs (based on mindless consumerism) will disappear.

Maybe we will come out of this wiser, less ideologized and more fact-based, less indebted, more united, and more aware. One can only hope

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK

1KIKI

Monday, May 4, 2020 12:00 AM

Quote:
JACK:
How do you know that 10% or more haven't already been infected?

I used YOUR SOURCES, JACK. YOUR ARTICLE that claims Sweden is doing all that testing. YOUR NUMBERS YOU GOT from JH.

SIGNYM

Monday, May 4, 2020 12:59 AM

SIX and facts about Covid-19?

Not well-acquanted!!

Also, reading comprehension not so good. (Like the article where he claims that world food organization is saying that people are going to starve because the "free shit" gravy train from the west is going to end, where it says no such thing.)

You can't discuss this with SIX. He's not seeing what's right in front of his nose.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK

1KIKI

Monday, May 4, 2020 1:46 AM

This seems reasonable:

NEW: New York State will require all hospitals to have on hand a 90-day supply of PPE at quantities sufficient to meet the rate of use during the worst of this crisis.
— Andrew Cuomo (@NYGovCuomo) May 3, 2020

1KIKI

Monday, May 4, 2020 1:48 AM

Thanks for all your timely, informative posts Signy. I'm especially thinking about the remdesivir one. There sure was a lot of skullduggery going on with that!

6IXSTRINGJACK

Monday, May 4, 2020 4:23 AM

Meh...

My state is re-opening. The weather is nice. Work is getting done.

I don't care what happens in Democratic Dystopias. Have fun with your little lockdown and remember we just gave a huge wound to our economy over nothing.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

1KIKI

Monday, May 4, 2020 5:57 AM

Thanks for the excellent lesson in what you are, JACK.

6IXSTRINGJACK

Monday, May 4, 2020 6:12 AM

And what is that?

Do Right, Be Right. :)

SIGNYM

Monday, May 4, 2020 6:40 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Meh...

My state is re-opening. The weather is nice. Work is getting done.

Good for you! Stay healthy! I hope your family stays healthy too!

Quote:
I don't care about anybody but myself.
Of course you don't! You've made that abundantly clear. No need to be redundant!

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK

6IXSTRINGJACK

Monday, May 4, 2020 6:45 AM

I already said I wasn't going to throw the first stone. I've got too much to lose, and my greying hair is telling me that I'm too old to be starting revolutions. In the mean time, anybody coming to drag me out of my house is going to have a surprise or two waiting for them...

I've also said from the beginning this entire thing was a huge nothing burger. I still say that, and everybody is going to be fine (healthwise) whether they open the states up or not.

That being said, Democrat run Dystopian shitholes are already Democrat run Dystopian shitholes. There's not much anybody can do to save them or their failing economies even in the best of times. They're just putting nails in their own coffins faster.

And given your level of fear for this virus, it seems like you and Kiki chose the right state to make your home for the rest of your lives.

Kind of funny to see protestors calling Pritzker in Illinois a Nazi. Pretty rare these days seeing that label applied to a Democrat politician.

He's already backpedaling on his June 1st stay at home order. You know he was hoping that Indiana and several other surrounding states just kept buying into the fear mongering so he could sit on his rich fat ass and keep breaching everyone's civil rights.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

1KIKI

Monday, May 4, 2020 7:14 AM

JACK, you've been clear that nothing short of 100M dead in the US is no big deal. That puts you in a completely ignorable category on the topic of whether or not this is a 'nothingburger'.

Also, no one is going to drag you out of your house. You've been imbibing the kool-aid from too many extremist websites.

I do want to ask you what you're going to do if your brother asks you to wear a mask when you go out. That may be an issue between the two of you.

Finally, whether or not you stay healthy is immaterial to me at this point. I sure do hope you don't go making other people sick, including your brother, strangers in the store, random passersby ...

SIGNYM

Monday, May 4, 2020 7:52 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
I already said I wasn't going to throw the first stone.

I have no idea what this refers to.

But you'e made it abundatnly clear that you wouldn't care if KIKI, or BRENDA, or I died from Covid-19, and there are prolly a lot of people here that you would prefer croaked. That would all be a "nothingburger" to you, and just the cost of keeping this dystopian economy alive for a few more years. Do youknow what was on the gate of many Nazi concentration camps, SIX? Arbeit macht frie. ("Work makes you free")

I wasn't kidding or exaggerating when I said you were being fascist.

But hey, everyone is entitled to their ideology. I hope the best for you, your family, and your state. I hope the governor and his staff took the time to make some practical preparations in case the virus spins out of control in your state, and isnt just throwing bodies onto the bonfire. Good luck. We'll be watching your state to see how things turn out.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK

6IXSTRINGJACK

Monday, May 4, 2020 8:38 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by 1KIKI:
JACK, you've been clear that nothing short of 100M dead in the US is no big deal. That puts you in a completely ignorable category on the topic of whether or not this is a 'nothingburger'.

There is nuance. And plenty of it. 1/3rd of the world population gone is only a step in the right direction from the much larger problem of overpopulation. Keep pretending that isn't the case if it makes you feel like a good person. Because when the famine wars break out when there truly isn't enough to go around, those people aren't going to look back too fondly upon any of us when we could have done something about it.

Quote:
Also, no one is going to drag you out of your house. You've been imbibing the kool-aid from too many extremist websites.

Like which websites? What websites to I ever quote here that you find to be extremist? I don't peruse extremist websites.

Quote:
I do want to ask you what you're going to do if your brother asks you to wear a mask when you go out. That may be an issue between the two of you.

We're on board with each other. He's not going to ask me to wear a mask. But since you're asking I'd tell him to fuck off if he did. He knows better.

Quote:
Finally, whether or not you stay healthy is immaterial to me at this point. I sure do hope you don't go making other people sick, including your brother, strangers in the store, random passersby ...

Whatves..

Do Right, Be Right. :)

6IXSTRINGJACK

Monday, May 4, 2020 8:45 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
I already said I wasn't going to throw the first stone.
I have no idea what this refers to.

This refers to the growing sentiment among people that we're facing a tyrannical government that is overstepping its boundaries (yanno, taking advantage of a situation, as you like to put it).

I've got both family and friends telling me that there is a revolution coming. Believe it or not, I'm the voice of reason here and I tell them that they're full of shit. We're a far cry from having nearly enough people with their backs against the wall, which is what it would take for a revolution to start. And none of them certainly are going to be a part of it when they have money in the bank and Netflix shows to binge watch.

I tell them to get back to me in 6 to 9 months when the unemployment runs out and they shut everything down again for the winter and people are forced to stay at home with zero income, eventually leading to being put out on the streets with no food. Until then, there will be no revolution. And none of them are going to be the first ones to throw the stones.

Quote:
But you'e made it abundatnly clear that you wouldn't care if KIKI, or BRENDA, or I died from Covid-19,

I'd be sad for a day or two. But life goes on. It's not as if I haven't already dealt with a lot of deaths in my life already. It's a part of life. This situation that we're in now doesn't change that.

Quote:
and there are prolly a lot of people here that you would prefer croaked.

Now you're just being bitchy. You know I'm not Wishy or Second or T. I don't go around wishing death on other people or goading them into killing themselves.

Quote:
That would all be a "nothingburger" to you, and just the cost of keeping this dystopian economy alive for a few more years. Do youknow what was on the gate of many Nazi concentration camps, SIX? Arbeit macht frie. ("Work makes you free")

So?

Work is good for you. Especially if your a man. Why do you suppose so many men who retire usually die a few years after they stop working?

Quote:
I wasn't kidding or exaggerating when I said you were being fascist.

Don't give a shit, because you're full of shit.

Quote:
But hey, everyone is entitled to their ideology. I hope the best for you, your family, and your state.

I'm sure you do.

Quote:
I hope the governor and his staff took the time to make some practical preparations in case the virus spins out of control in your state, and isnt just throwing bodies onto the bonfire. Good luck. We'll be watching your state to see how things turn out.

Don't just watch mine. By this time two weeks from now yours will be among the few hold-outs on the lock-downs.

Haven't you been paying attention at all to the news?

Do Right, Be Right. :)

SIGNYM

Monday, May 4, 2020 12:16 PM

Quote:
SIX: I already said I wasn't going to throw the first stone.

SIGNY: I have no idea what this refers to.

SIX: This refers to the growing sentiment among people that we're facing a tyrannical government that is overstepping its boundaries (yanno, taking advantage of a situation, as you like to put it).

I've got both family and friends telling me that there is a revolution coming. Believe it or not, I'm the voice of reason here and I tell them that they're full of shit. We're a far cry from having nearly enough people with their backs against the wall, which is what it would take for a revolution to start. And none of them certainly are going to be a part of it when they have money in the bank and Netflix shows to binge watch.

True

Quote:
I tell them to get back to me in 6 to 9 months when the unemployment runs out and they shut everything down again for the winter and people are forced to stay at home with zero income, eventually leading to being put out on the streets with no food. Until then, there will be no revolution. And none of them are going to be the first ones to throw the stones.

The Romans had it figured out: bread and circuses. But you can't take away the bread. Nothing foments revolution like hungry people who expect better.

Quote:
SIGNY: But you've made it abundantly clear that you wouldn't care if KIKI, or BRENDA, or I died from Covid-19,

SIX: I'd be sad for a day or two. But life goes on. It's not as if I haven't already dealt with a lot of deaths in my life already. It's a part of life. This situation that we're in now doesn't change that.

SIGNY: and there are prolly a lot of people here that you would prefer croaked.

SIX: Now you're just being bitchy. You know I'm not Wishy or Second or T. I don't go around wishing death on other people or goading them into killing themselves.

Well then, same here.

Quote:
SIGNY: That would all be a "nothingburger" to you, and just the cost of keeping this dystopian economy alive for a few more years. Do youknow what was on the gate of many Nazi concentration camps, SIX? Arbeit macht frie. ("Work makes you free")

SIX: So?

Work is good for you. Especially if your a man.

Knowing that you can earn your way is good for everybody. But that means that society values what you do and is willing to pay you a decent wage to do it. "Do you want fries with that?" is not a job, it's wasting time.

Quote:
SIX: Why do you suppose so many men who retire usually die a few years after they stop working?

They do?

If work really makes you free, then concentration camp prisoners and slaves must REALLY have been free. Because, damn, they were working hard!

Quote:
SIGNY: I wasn't kidding or exaggerating when I said you were being fascist.

SIX: Don't give a shit, because you're full of shit.

No, you just obviously don't know history.

Quote:
SIGNY: But hey, everyone is entitled to their ideology. I hope the best for you, your family, and your state.

SIX: I'm sure you do.

Actually, I do. I bear you no ill will.

Quote:
SIGNY: I hope the governor and his staff took the time to make some practical preparations in case the virus spins out of control in your state, and isn't just throwing bodies onto the bonfire. Good luck. We'll be watching your state to see how things turn out.

SIX: Don't just watch mine. By this time two weeks from now yours will be among the few hold-outs on the lock-downs. Haven't you been paying attention at all to the news?

Do Right, Be Right. :)

I know Newsom's criteria for opening up are completely unworkable, starting with his first premise of two weeks of declining deaths and cases.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK

1KIKI

Monday, May 4, 2020 2:16 PM

" He knows better. "

He know better than to ... what? Speak his mind? Ask for something even if it's really important to him? Disagree with you about anything? What does he know?

1KIKI

Monday, May 4, 2020 2:20 PM

https://www.gov.ca.gov/2020/04/14/governor-newsom-outlines-six-critica
l-indicators-the-state-will-consider-before-modifying-the-stay-at-home-order-and-other-covid-19-interventions/

California’s six indicators for modifying the stay-at-home order are:

• The ability to monitor and protect our communities through testing, contact tracing, isolating, and supporting those who are positive or exposed;
• The ability to prevent infection in people who are at risk for more severe COVID-19;
• The ability of the hospital and health systems to handle surges;
• The ability to develop therapeutics to meet the demand;
• The ability for businesses, schools, and child care facilities to support physical distancing; and
• The ability to determine when to reinstitute certain measures, such as the stay-at-home orders, if necessary.

1KIKI

Monday, May 4, 2020 2:27 PM

https://www.statnews.com/2020/05/01/three-potential-futures-for-covid-
19/

Three potential futures for Covid-19: recurring small outbreaks, a monster wave, or a persistent crisis

... while these scenarios diverge on key details — how much transmission will decrease over the summer, for instance, and how many people have already been infected (and possibly acquired immunity) — they almost unanimously foresee a world that, even when the current outbreak temporarily abates, looks and feels nothing like the world of just three months ago.

It is a world where, even in Western countries, wearing a face mask is no more unusual than carrying a cellphone. A world where even at small social gatherings a friend’s occasional cough feels threatening, where workplaces have the feel of hot zones, and where taking public transit is not as much environmentally correct as personally dangerous.

In one future, a monster wave hit in early 2020 (the current outbreak of millions of cases and a projected hundreds of thousands of deaths globally by August 1), but is followed by alternating mini-waves of much smaller outbreaks every few months with only a few (but never zero) cases in between.

In the second scenario, the current monster wave is followed later this year by one twice as fierce and even longer-lasting, as the outbreak rebounds after a summer when a significant drop in the number of cases and deaths led officials and individuals to let down their guard, relax physical distancing more than was safe, and fail to heed (or even detect) the early warning signs that a new outbreak was gathering force. After this doubly disastrous second wave, the sea is almost calm, marred only by an occasional wave of cases that number barely one-fifth of what the fall and spring of 2020 saw.

In the third possible future, the current wave creates a new normal, with Covid-19 outbreaks of nearly equal size and, in most cases, duration through the end of 2022. At that point, the best-case scenario is that an effective vaccine has arrived; if not, then the world experiences Covid-19 until at least half of the population has been infected, with or without becoming ill.

What all three scenarios agree on is this: There is virtually no chance Covid-19 will end when the world bids good riddance to a calamitous 2020. The reason is the same as why the disease has taken such a toll its first time through: No one had immunity to the new coronavirus.

Since the world “is far from that level of immunity,” said Osterholm (he estimates that no more than 5% of the world population is immune to the new coronavirus as a result of surviving their infection), “this virus is going to keep finding people. It’s going to keep spreading through the population.” And that, he said, “means we’re in for a long haul.”

1KIKI

Monday, May 4, 2020 2:44 PM

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/03/world/asia/coronavirus-spread-where
-why.html

The Covid-19 Riddle: Why Does the Virus Wallop Some Places and Spare Others?

The coronavirus has killed so many people in Iran that the country has resorted to mass burials, but in neighboring Iraq, the body count is fewer than 100. (Is it availability of western-style mass transport in Iran but not Iraq?)

The Dominican Republic has reported nearly 7,600 cases of the virus. Just across the border, Haiti has recorded about 85. (Haiti is too impoverished to track cases?)

In Indonesia, thousands are believed to have died of the coronavirus. In nearby Malaysia, a strict lockdown has kept fatalities to about 100. (Perhaps the strict lockdown did it?)

Global metropolises like New York, Paris and London have been devastated, while teeming cities like Bangkok, Baghdad, New Delhi and Lagos have, so far, largely been spared. (Is it the gathering of people from many suburbs into western-style mass transit that makes the difference?)

Many developing nations with hot climates and young populations (Which ones are they, specifically?) have escaped the worst, suggesting that temperature and demographics could be factors. But countries like Peru, Indonesia and Brazil, tropical countries in the throes of growing epidemics, throw cold water on that idea.

Draconian social-distancing and early lockdown measures have clearly been effective, but Myanmar and Cambodia did neither and have reported (reported) few cases.

One theory that is unproven but impossible to refute: maybe the virus just hasn’t gotten to those countries yet. Russia and Turkey appeared to be fine until, suddenly, they were not.

Time may still prove the greatest equalizer: The Spanish flu that broke out in the United States in 1918 seemed to die down during the summer only to come roaring back with a deadlier strain in the fall, and a third wave the following year. It eventually reached far-flung places like islands in Alaska and the South Pacific and infected a third of the world’s population.

(more at the link)

SIGNYM

Monday, May 4, 2020 3:21 PM

huh. The six things that I saw weren't at all the same. They began with "fourteen days of declining infections/deaths" and ended wtih "redesign buildings etc to accommodate social distancing" that is soooo far in the future as to be undo-able. I'll have to see where I got that from!

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK

6IXSTRINGJACK

Monday, May 4, 2020 8:36 PM

Quote:
SIX: I already said I wasn't going to throw the first stone.

SIGNY: I have no idea what this refers to.

SIX: This refers to the growing sentiment among people that we're facing a tyrannical government that is overstepping its boundaries (yanno, taking advantage of a situation, as you like to put it).

I've got both family and friends telling me that there is a revolution coming. Believe it or not, I'm the voice of reason here and I tell them that they're full of shit. We're a far cry from having nearly enough people with their backs against the wall, which is what it would take for a revolution to start. And none of them certainly are going to be a part of it when they have money in the bank and Netflix shows to binge watch.

SIGNY: True

Yup. And every one of them is much better off than I am, income-wise. Even my brother who is essentially on UBI for life or at least until the government takes Social Security away.

Quote:
SIX: I tell them to get back to me in 6 to 9 months when the unemployment runs out and they shut everything down again for the winter and people are forced to stay at home with zero income, eventually leading to being put out on the streets with no food. Until then, there will be no revolution. And none of them are going to be the first ones to throw the stones.

SIGNY: The Romans had it figured out: bread and circuses. But you can't take away the bread. Nothing foments revolution like hungry people who expect better.

Yup. We've talked about all of this long before and I'm not surprised we're in agreement here. Though not completely out of the question and the timeline could be drastically speed up depending on immediate and future decisions made about The Coomph, I still think we've got a very long way to go before getting there.

Quote:
SIGNY: But you've made it abundantly clear that you wouldn't care if KIKI, or BRENDA, or I died from Covid-19,

Quote:
SIX: I'd be sad for a day or two. But life goes on. It's not as if I haven't already dealt with a lot of deaths in my life already. It's a part of life. This situation that we're in now doesn't change that.

SIGNY: and there are prolly a lot of people here that you would prefer croaked.

SIX: Now you're just being bitchy. You know I'm not Wishy or Second or T. I don't go around wishing death on other people or goading them into killing themselves.

Well then, same here.

If you're referring to being sad for a day or two, that's great news. Aside from maybe my brother, I don't expect people I'm close with to to let the thought linger all that long. But that's only because he has a hard time letting anything go. Maybe my parents if I die before they do because I've noticed that seems to really haunt parents. But that's more about them than it would be about me.

Quote:
SIGNY: That would all be a "nothingburger" to you, and just the cost of keeping this dystopian economy alive for a few more years. Do youknow what was on the gate of many Nazi concentration camps, SIX? Arbeit macht frie. ("Work makes you free")

SIX: So?

Work is good for you. Especially if your a man.

SIGNY: Knowing that you can earn your way is good for everybody. But that means that society values what you do and is willing to pay you a decent wage to do it. "Do you want fries with that?" is not a job, it's wasting time.

My point was that you seem to be taking a quote out of Wishy's playbook here and using shit Nazis say to call me a Nazi. The only problem here is that the slogan your referencing happens not to be a bad one just because Nazis used it in a bad way.

As for the wage and/or type of job? You don't get to talk about that. You and your husband are sitting pretty right now after a lifetime of working good jobs. I've been laid off of more good jobs than you had. I've also worked 5

CAPTAINCRUNCH

Monday, May 4, 2020 8:37 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
There is nuance. And plenty of it. 1/3rd of the world population gone is only a step in the right direction from the much larger problem of overpopulation. Keep pretending that isn't the case if it makes you feel like a good person. Because when the famine wars break out when there truly isn't enough to go around, those people aren't going to look back too fondly upon any of us when we could have done something about it.

This cracks me up. You don't give a sh*t about old people dying by the tens of thousands but you seemingly suddenly care about famine? Why? Trying to impress a girl?

lol

6IXSTRINGJACK

Monday, May 4, 2020 8:40 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by captaincrunch:
Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
There is nuance. And plenty of it. 1/3rd of the world population gone is only a step in the right direction from the much larger problem of overpopulation. Keep pretending that isn't the case if it makes you feel like a good person. Because when the famine wars break out when there truly isn't enough to go around, those people aren't going to look back too fondly upon any of us when we could have done something about it.

This cracks me up. You don't give a sh*t about old people dying by the tens of thousands but you seemingly suddenly care about famine? Why? Trying to impress a girl?

lol

What makes you think that I care? I'll be the first person to assure you that I don't.

I'm just pointing out hypocrisy and tunnel vision.

Tens of Millions of people dying from hunger now is much better for the world than tens of thousands of old people dying from The Coomph. Especially when the tens of millions that will die of hunger were mostly of the age to have children and the tens of thousands dying from a cough weren't.

But let's not pretend that this is about anybody giving a shit about other people here when they talk about the tens of thousands of old people who are going to die, when by trying to prevent it in the way we're doing will lead to tens of millions of hunger deaths half a world away.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

CAPTAINCRUNCH

Monday, May 4, 2020 8:44 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
This refers to the growing sentiment among people that we're facing a tyrannical government that is overstepping its boundaries (yanno, taking advantage of a situation, as you like to put it).

You're talking about the current government no doubt.

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
I've got both family and friends telling me that there is a revolution coming. Believe it or not, I'm the voice of reason here and I tell them that they're full of shit. We're a far cry from having nearly enough people with their backs against the wall, which is what it would take for a revolution to start. And none of them certainly are going to be a part of it when they have money in the bank and Netflix shows to binge watch.

Glad to hear you're telling them they are full of shit. This is "idle hands" talking. Guys drinking around other guys with nothing to do shit talking. I would love to know what these revolutionaries would do that would be so different IF they even could. They would collapse in the first week if they really tried.

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
I tell them to get back to me in 6 to 9 months when the unemployment runs out and they shut everything down again for the winter and people are forced to stay at home with zero income, eventually leading to being put out on the streets with no food. Until then, there will be no revolution. And none of them are going to be the first ones to throw the stones.

Seems like they're just looking to provoke someone else to through that first stone - force armed response to justify even more violence. Perfect playbook civilian control tactics. I think a lot of people know this.

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
I'd be sad for a day or two. But life goes on.

Classic.

6IXSTRINGJACK

Monday, May 4, 2020 8:49 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by captaincrunch:
Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
This refers to the growing sentiment among people that we're facing a tyrannical government that is overstepping its boundaries (yanno, taking advantage of a situation, as you like to put it).

You're talkikng about the current government no doubt.

Yup. Current Democrat run shitholes.

The same people that will bitch and moan when Trump doesn't declare a national emergency and doesn't personally manufacture and ship them face masks, but then a month later out of their other face bitch and moan when he removes the federal emergency and puts it in the state's hands.

Trump isn't the oppressor here, buddy.

I know your TDS really, really wants him to be.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

SIGNYM

Monday, May 4, 2020 9:57 PM

Quote:
SIGNY: That [many deaths, death of those close to you] would all be a "nothingburger" to you, and just the cost of keeping this dystopian economy alive for a few more years. Do youknow what was on the gate of many Nazi concentration camps, SIX? Arbeit macht frie. ("Work makes you free")

SIX: So? Work is good for you. Especially if your a man.

SIGNY: Knowing that you can earn your way is good for everybody. But that means that society values what you do and is willing to pay you a decent wage to do it. "Do you want fries with that?" is not a job, it's wasting time.

SIX: My point was that you seem to be taking a quote out of Wishy's playbook here and using shit Nazis say to call me a Nazi. The only problem here is that the slogan your referencing happens not to be a bad one just because Nazis used it in a bad way.

You've made several statements that, when tied together, sure make you SOUND like a fascist.

The first is your overwhelming desire to get "the economy" going, come hell, high water, or 100 million dead.

You framed it as "concern" for the average person, but if you don't care whether or not they live or die, then your "concern" for them and their lives is fake. Or at least, it comes off sounding like WISHY: She's so concerned about people not being "free" that she's willing to kill everyone except 100 people.

Your statements make it sound as if you're more concerned about "the economy" ... businesses openings and closings, banks, corporations, GDP numbers, stock prices ... than you are about "the people" underneath who actually make it function.

Are you?

Are you more concerned about "the economy" than about "the people" who make it function?

Because I've asked you more than once to clarify your goal(s), and you didn't. So it STILL sounds as if you're more than willing to sacrifice an awful lot of real people for some abstract business benefit.

But let's assume that you're not a fascist. (not Nazi, fascist. There's a difference. A fascist thinks that everything ... people, government, the economy ... should be bent for the good of corporations.)

Let's assume [despite your statements to the contrary] that you really ARE, in someway, concerned about people in general and their lives and well-being. It's hard to measure "state of mind" except in anything other than death by suicide, drug overdose, alcoholism. It's hard to measure "well being" by any measure other than death by starvation or exposure, where basic biological needs are no longer being met.

If you were REALLY concerned about people and their lives and livelihood, you would look at deaths caused by Covid-19 and deaths caused by Covid-19 countermeasures, and if the deaths caused by Covid-19 countermeasures exceeded those caused by the virus itself, you would dial back the countermeasures.

That's the only way to look at this: risk v risk. There is a risk of doing something (lockdowns), there is a risk of doing nothing (virus). Using the same endpoint (death) when does one risk overtake the other?

Quote:
As for the wage and/or type of job? You don't get to talk about that. You and your husband are sitting pretty right now after lifetime of working good jobs. I've been laid off of more good jobs than you had. I've also worked 5 times as many shitty jobs than you ever worked.

Now the resentment comes out!!

(a) You have no idea how many shitty jobs hubby and I worked! Babysitting, sweeping the hardware store floor, picking rhubarb, housecleaning, lawnmowing, mason's helper, telephone sales, pin setter at a bowling alley, punch press operator, dishwasher, stockroom help ...

(b) EVERY PERSON that I knew who was in dire straits made MANY critically bad decisions that landed them there.

Our housekeeper, who was so desperate for love she

CAPTAINCRUNCH

Monday, May 4, 2020 10:10 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Quote:
SIGNY: That [many deaths, death of those close to you] would all be a "nothingburger" to you, and just the cost of keeping this dystopian economy alive for a few more years. Do youknow what was on the gate of many Nazi concentration camps, SIX? Arbeit macht frie. ("Work makes you free")

SIX: So? Work is good for you. Especially if your a man.

SIGNY: Knowing that you can earn your way is good for everybody. But that means that society values what you do and is willing to pay you a decent wage to do it. "Do you want fries with that?" is not a job, it's wasting time.

SIX: My point was that you seem to be taking a quote out of Wishy's playbook here and using shit Nazis say to call me a Nazi. The only problem here is that the slogan your referencing happens not to be a bad one just because Nazis used it in a bad way.
You've made several statements that, when tied together, sure make you SOUND like a fascist.

The first is your overwhelming desire to get "the economy" going, come hell, high water, or 100 million dead.

You framed it as "concern" for the average person, but if you don't care whether or not they live or die, then your "concern" for them and their lives is fake. Or at least, it comes off sounding like WISHY: She's so concerned about people not being "free" that she's willing to kill everyone except 100 people.

Your statements make it sound as if you're more concerned about "the economy" ... businesses openings and closings, banks, corporations, GDP numbers, stock prices ... than you are about "the people" underneath who actually make it function.

Are you?

Are you more concerned about "the economy" than about "the people" who make it function?

Because I've asked you more than once to clarify your goal(s), and you didn't. So it STILL sounds as if you're more than willing to sacrifice an awful lot of real people for some abstract business benefit.

But let's assume that you're not a fascist. (not Nazi, fascist. There's a difference. A fascist thinks that everything ... people, government, the economy ... should be bent for the good of corporations.)

Let's assume [despite your statements to the contrary] that you really ARE, in someway, concerned about people in general and their lives and well-being. It's hard to measure "state of mind" except in anything other than death by suicide, drug overdose, alcoholism. It's hard to measure "well being" by any measure other than death by starvation or exposure, where basic biological needs are no longer being met.

If you were REALLY concerned about people and their lives and livelihood, you would look at deaths caused by Covid-19 and deaths caused by Covid-19 countermeasures, and if the deaths caused by Covid-19 countermeasures exceeded those caused by the virus itself, you would dial back the countermeasures.

That's the only way to look at this: risk v risk. There is a risk of doing something (lockdowns), there is a risk of doing nothing (virus). Using the same endpoint (death) when does one risk overtake the other?

Quote:
As for the wage and/or type of job? You don't get to talk about that. You and your husband are sitting pretty right now after lifetime of working good jobs. I've been laid off of more good jobs than you had. I've also worked 5 times as many shitty jobs than you ever worked.
Now the resentment comes out!!

(a) You have no idea how many shitty jobs hubby and I worked! Babysitting, sweeping the hardware store floor, picking rhubarb, housecleaning, lawnmowing, mason's helper, telephone sales, pin setter at a bowling alley, punch press operator, dishwasher, stockroom help ...

(b) EVERY PERSON that I knew who was in dire straits made MANY critically bad decisions that landed them there.

Our houseke

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CAPTAINCRUNCH

Monday, May 4, 2020 10:15 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:
Originally posted by captaincrunch:
Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
There is nuance. And plenty of it. 1/3rd of the world population gone is only a step in the right direction from the much larger problem of overpopulation. Keep pretending that isn't the case if it makes you feel like a good person. Because when the famine wars break out when there truly isn't enough to go around, those people aren't going to look back too fondly upon any of us when we could have done something about it.

This cracks me up. You don't give a sh*t about old people dying by the tens of thousands but you seemingly suddenly care about famine? Why? Trying to impress a girl?

lol

What makes you think that I care? I'll be the first person to assure you that I don't.

I'm just pointing out hypocrisy and tunnel vision.

Tens of Millions of people dying from hunger now is much better for the world than tens of thousands of old people dying from The Coomph. Especially when the tens of millions that will die of hunger were mostly of the age to have children and the tens of thousands dying from a cough weren't.

But let's not pretend that this is about anybody giving a shit about other people here when they talk about the tens of thousands of old people who are going to die, when by trying to prevent it in the way we're doing will lead to tens of millions of hunger deaths half a world away.

Okay, I missed that. That's funny stuff, dood - thanks for posting it! I have a huge list of things I want to do today and quite frankly, I've been stalling (even during Quarantine Mondays it can be a b*tch to get rolling). But that snot rag of a post snapped me right out of it.

SIGNYM

Monday, May 4, 2020 11:34 PM

Quote:

You realize you sound like second in that last part?

No, I don't. The difference between SECOND and me and hubby is that we WORKED for our money, SECOND just rolled the dice and now lives the life of a rentier capitalist.

So, since you've avoided the question about a half-dozen times by now:

WHAT IS THE GOAL OF YOUR DESPERATE ITCH TO "OPEN UP" THE ECONOMY?

Is is because you "care" so much about people and their lives and livelihoods? (If that's not the case, please stop using them as an excuse.)

Is it because you think people should sacrifice their lives for business owners and banks? (If that's not the case, please stop using the economy as an excuse.)

And if neither...what is it?

Genetic cleansing?
Overpopulation?
Trump's re-election?
Traumatic exposure to knowledge about viruses? (HIV)
Concern for some hypothetical "purposeless" white male?
Specific concern for your brothers and dad?
Resentment of the "boomer" generation, who you would like to see die off?
Or maybe it's all about you, and only you?
Something(s) else?

When someone gives -literally- more than a half-dozen reasons for something, CLEARLY they don't know - or don't want to admit - their REAL motivations.
You're a victim of fuzzy emotional thinking, SIX. Please try to reach some clarity. Stop rationalizing your emotions and answer that question: Not for us, just for yourself.

*****

Also, as an aside:

The actual calculation that people should be using is "risk v risk", not "risk v reward". There is a risk of doing something, and a risk of doing nothing.

Most people don't assess risk. They live in a fuzzy dreamworld instead of the world that actually exists.

Everyone should live their lives as if "they're" out to get you because ... guess what? ... "they" are.

And nature is out to get you, too.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK

1KIKI

Tuesday, May 5, 2020 12:50 AM

Weill, JACK's right about 2 things: 1) the number of old and 'weak' people being offed by COVID-19 won't help the environment and 2) the demographic of old and 'weak' people being bumped off by COVID-19 REALLY won't help the environment as much as if young, healthy, fertile people got bumped off.

He clearly knows that, and he clearly states that, so his advocacy for old and 'weak' people dying is CLEARLY NOT about helping the environment.

But why is anybody even debating JACK? He's just here to thrown stink-bombs in his tantrumming. And nothing is going to change his opinion since his entire personality is formed around resentment that he hasn't been sufficiently rewarded for his 'specialness'.

Surely there's enough difference of knowledge and opinion about what best to do about the actual situation. Maybe we could be discussing that instead.

SECOND

Tuesday, May 5, 2020 1:19 AM

CDC Seems to Project Half a Million Deaths From COVID-19

www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2020/05/cdc-projects-half-a-million-dea
ths-from-covid-19/

HALF A MILLION DEATHS.

I suppose it’s possible that the CDC is completely off base. But . . . probably not.

HALF A MILLION DEATHS.

Words are failing me. Do they really believe this? And they’re keeping it a secret while Donald Trump says everything is OK and we should start reopening the economy? Will someone please tell me that this was just some intern screwing around with a spreadsheet that accidentally got into the hands of the New York Times? Or a fat finger error? Or a decimal place that got dropped?

ARE THEY SERIOUSLY KEEPING IT A SECRET THAT THEY EXPECT HALF A MILLION DEATHS FROM COVID-19?

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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