Evidence: So where are we now(II) ?
POSTED BY: SIGNYM
UPDATED: Thursday, August 31, 2023 05:36
VIEWED: 86324
PAGE 1 of 8
Not seeing anything offhand to carry over from the other thread. If I do, I will add it here >>>>
*****
Although, I DO have to say that those who are (were?) convinced of "Russian hacking" and "Russian collusion" seem to be posting a contradictory message: On the one hand, they keep pointing to "evidence", and on the other hand they excuse it's lack by saying Well, what do you think Meuller is going to do? Release evidence as soon as he finds it?". You guys - pick one or the other, you can't credibly have both.
I thought this was interesting
Quote:
Manafort Calls On DOJ To Release His Intercepted Phone Calls; Demands Investigation Of Leaks
Less than 24 hours after CNN triggered the latest outbreak of 'Trump Derangement Syndrome' by relaying information from anonymous sources that Trump's former campaign manager Paul Manfort has been under surveillance by the FBI since 2014, Manafort has fired back by calling on the Department of Justice to release all transcripts of his tapped phone calls so that the American public "can come to the same conclusion as the DOJ — there is nothing there." Per the Daily Caller:
****
Former Trump campaign manager Paul Manafort is calling on the Justice Department to release transcripts of any intercepted communications he may have had with foreigners.
Manafort, a longtime Republican political consultant, also called on the Justice Department’s inspector general to investigate the leak of details of secret surveillance warrants obtained by U.S. investigators.
“Mr. Manafort requests that the Department of Justice release any intercepts involving him and any non-Americans so interested parties can come to the same conclusion as the DOJ — there is nothing there,” Manafort spokesman Jason Maloni said in a statement.
****
Manafort's spokesman goes on to demand that the DOJ launch an immediate investigation into who continues to commit federal felonies with reckless abandon by leaking details of confidential FISA warrants to the media.
****
Whether or not Manafort committed a crime — and he has not been charged with anything — the leak of information about FISA warrants is a federal crime, Maloni noted in his statement.
“If true, it is a felony to reveal the existence of a FISA warrant, regardless of the fact that no charges ever emerged,” Maloni said.
Information about FISA warrants is classified and tightly held by government officials and the federal judges that approve them. Unauthorized disclosures of FISA information is also a felony.
At a House Intelligence Committee hearing in March, then-FBI Director James Comey testified that the leak of FISA information is punishable by up to 10 years in prison.
In his statement, Maloni called on the Justice Department’s watchdog to “immediately” open an investigation into the leak and to “examine the motivations behind the previous Administration’s effort to surveil a political opponent.”
****
Of course, this was all triggered by CNN's 'bombshell' story last night which revealed that Manafort has been under an ongoing wiretap, approved by the FISA courts, going back to 2014 and tied to his consulting arrangements with Ukraine's former ruling party.
That said, the interesting part of CNN's story came via the revelation that "surveillance [of Manafort] was discontinued at some point last year for lack of evidence" but was then restarted with a "new FISA warrant that extended at least into early this year"...all of which sounds an awful lot like the Obama administration using FISA courts to spy on a political opponent.
Here are the details as presented by CNN:
****
US investigators wiretapped former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort under secret court orders before and after the election, sources tell CNN, an extraordinary step involving a high-ranking campaign official now at the center of the Russia meddling probe.
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Can you include a linky to your prior version of this topic, and maybe one for your DWS thread, too?
The conclusion of your last thread of this was: No Evidence, right?
Here is the last thread:
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=61769
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Okie dokie!
I haven't read thru the last page of contributions to the past thread, so when I get a chance I'll update this thread with whatever I find.
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=61769
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
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Meanwhile ... James Comey (FBI) and James Clapper (a notorious liar who previously said that the NSA wasn't collecting bulk data on Americans) both appear to have lied about NOT wiretapping Trump Tower, and both appear to have been investigating Trump's Presidential campaign based on false evidence.
This is what the WSJ had to say about it:
Quote:
All Mr. Comey’s Wiretaps
WSJ Demands To Know How FBI 'Meddled' In 2016 Elections
When Donald Trump claimed in March that he’d had his “wires tapped” prior to the election, the press and Obama officials dismissed the accusation as a fantasy. We were among the skeptics, but with former director James Comey’s politicized FBI the story is getting more complicated.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/all-mr-comeys-wiretaps-1505862793
Since the WSJ is behind a paywall, I'll have to continue form Zerohedge
Quote:
When Donald Trump claimed in March that he’d had his “wires tapped” prior to the election, the press and Obama officials dismissed the accusation as a fantasy. We were among the skeptics, but with former director James Comey’s politicized FBI the story is getting more complicated.
CNN reported Monday that the FBI obtained a warrant last year to eavesdrop on Paul Manafort, Mr. Trump’s campaign manager from May to August in 2016. The story claims the FBI first wiretapped Mr. Manafort in 2014 while investigating his work as a lobbyist for Ukraine’s ruling party. That warrant lapsed, but the FBI convinced the court that administers the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) to issue a second order as part of its probe into Russian meddling in the election.
Guess who has lived in a condo in Trump Tower since 2006? Paul Manafort.
The story suggests the monitoring started in the summer or fall, and extended into early this year.
While Mr. Manafort resigned from the campaign in August, he continued to speak with Candidate Trump.
It is thus highly likely that the FBI was listening to the political and election-related conversations of a leading contender for the White House.
That’s extraordinary - and worrisome.
Mr. Comey told Congress in late March that he “had no information that supports those [Trump] tweets.”
Former Director of National Intelligence James Clapper was even more specific that “there was no such wiretap activity mounted against—the President-elect at the time, or as a candidate, or against his campaign.”
He denied that any such FISA order existed.
Were they lying?
The warrant’s timing may also shed light on the FBI’s relationship to the infamous “ Steele dossier.” That widely discredited dossier claiming ties between Russians and the Trump campaign was commissioned by left-leaning research firm Fusion GPS and developed by former British spy Christopher Steele—who relied on Russian sources. But the Washington Post and others have reported that Mr. Steele was familiar to the FBI, had reached out to the agency about his work, and had even arranged a deal in 2016 to get paid by the FBI to continue his research.
The FISA court sets a high bar for warrants on U.S. citizens, and presumably even higher for wiretapping a presidential campaign. Did Mr. Comey’s FBI marshal the Steele dossier to persuade the court?
All of this is reason for House and Senate investigators to keep exploring how Mr. Comey’s FBI was investigating both presidential campaigns.
Russian meddling is a threat to democracy but so was the FBI if it relied on Russian disinformation to eavesdrop on a presidential campaign. The Justice Department and FBI have stonewalled Congressional requests for documents and interviews, citing the “integrity” of Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s investigation.
But Mr. Mueller is not investigating the FBI, and in any event his ties to the bureau and Mr. Comey make him too conflicted for such a job. Congress is charged with providing oversight of law enforcement and the FISA courts, and it has an obligation to investigate their role in 2016. The inNOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Well, if you are the criminals put in charge of investigations, shouldn't you target other people for committing the specific crimes you perpetrated? The best way to divert attention from your criminal activities, and the best reason to have career criminals in charge of investigations.
Quote:I feel so ignored.
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Okie dokie!
I haven't read thru the last page of contributions to the past thread, so when I get a chance I'll update this thread with whatever I find.
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=61769
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In Stunning Reversal, DHS Says Russians Were Not Behind Attempted Wisconsin Vote Hacking
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-09-26/coverup-dhs-tells-wisconsin-r
ussians-werent-behind-voting-system-cybertargeting
"Evidens" is disappearing like frost at sunrise
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
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MORE evaporating evidence, this time from CA
Quote:
Information Provided by DHS Regarding Russian Scanning was Incorrect
SACRAMENTO – California Secretary of State Alex Padilla issued the following statement.
“Last Friday, my office was notified by the U.S. Department of Homeland Security (DHS) that Russian cyber actors 'scanned' California’s Internet-facing systems in 2016, including Secretary of State websites. Following our request for further information, it became clear that DHS’ conclusions were wrong.”
“DHS confirmed that Russian scanning activity had actually occurred on the California Department of Technology statewide network, not any Secretary of State website. Based on this additional information, California voters can further rest assured that the California Secretary of State elections infrastructure and websites were not hacked or breached by Russian cyber actors.”
“Our notification from DHS last Friday was not only a year late, it also turned out to be bad information. To make matters worse, the Associated Press similarly reported that DHS has reversed itself and 'now says Russia didn’t target Wisconsin’s voter registration system,' which is contrary to previous briefings.”
“The work of our intelligence agencies is critical in defending against cyber threats. I remain committed to a partnership with DHS and other intelligence agencies, however, elections officials and the American public expect and deserve timely and accurate information.”
http://www.sos.ca.gov/administration/news-releases-and-advisories/2017
-news-releases-and-advisories/dhs-incorrectly-notified-california-secretary-state-about-russian-scanning/
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
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Quote:But they did wait plenty of time for the MSM to distribute the Fake News.
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
In Stunning Reversal, DHS Says Russians Were Not Behind Attempted Wisconsin Vote Hacking
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-09-26/coverup-dhs-tells-wisconsin-r
ussians-werent-behind-voting-system-cybertargeting
"Evidens" is disappearing like frost at sunrise
The TELEvisionPROMPtingTERminal Readers on our news entertainment shows peddled it like Libtard drones.
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I don't know if this belongs under "Evidens" (as in - EVAPORATING evidens) or under Russia's so-called cyberwar against the USA.
Quote:
Germany Says It Found "No Evidence" Kaspersky Helped Russia Spy On US
US intelligence agencies are claiming that the Russian government leveraged the popularity of Kaspersky Labs’ cybersecurity software to create what is tantamount to a global spy network with the company’s explicit cooperation. However, Germany’s intelligence agencies say they’ve found “no evidence” to suggest these reports are true.
The Wall Street Journal, which last week reported that the US had identified at least one case of Kaspersky’s software improperly copying classified information, is back with another “exclusive” spoon fed to it by anonymous “senior US officials” alleging that Kaspersky allowed Russian government malware to piggy back on its software. The malware scanned for and copied files labeled “top secret,” not just in the US, but globally. Though WSJ neglects to list other countries that are suspected victims of Russian hacking.
Meanwhile, Germany's BSI federal cyber agency said on Wednesday it had found no evidence to suggest that Russian hackers had used Kaspersky’s software to spy on US authorities.
"There are no plans to warn against the use of Kaspersky products since the BSI has no evidence for misconduct by the company or weaknesses in its software," BSI said in an emailed response to questions about the latest media reports. "The BSI has no indications at this time that the process occurred as described in the media," according to Reuters. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-security-kaspersky-germany/germ
any-no-evidence-kaspersky-software-used-by-russians-for-hacks-idUSKBN1CG284
Germany's BSI, which also uses Kaspersky products for technical analyses, said it was in touch with U.S. officials and other security agencies about the issue so it could take action and issue a warning on short notice if required.
The Russian government used a popular antivirus software to secretly scan computers around the world for classified U.S. government documents and top-secret information, modifying the program to turn it into an espionage tool, according to current and former U.S. officials with knowledge of the matter.
The software, made by the Moscow-based company Kaspersky Lab, routinely scans files of computers on which it is installed looking for viruses and other malicious software. But in an adjustment to its normal operations that the officials say could only have been made with the company’s knowledge, the program searched for terms as broad as “top secret,” which may be written on classified government documents, as well as the classified code names of U.S. government programs, these people said.
After becoming suspicious that the Kaspersky software might be concealing malicious spyware, US intelligence agencies began scrutinizing the software, searching for signs that it was unknowingly copying and transmitting sensitive information.
For many months, U.S. intelligence agencies studied the software and even set up controlled experiments to see if they could trigger Kaspersky’s software into believing it had found classified materials on a computer being monitored by U.S. spies, these people said. Those experiments persuaded officials that Kaspersky was being used to detect classified information.
Later, WSJ notes that, in fact, it was Israeli intelligence that first alerted the US to Kaspersky’s skullduggery, effectively creating a separate, parallel narrative to explain how the deception was exposed.
So, which is it? Did the Israelis tell us? Or did the US discover the breach independently in 2015?
In an ironic twist, Kaspersky exposed Israel for lying about the source of its information on Iran deal talks after WSJ reported two years ago that Israel had spied on negotiations. Israel had said it received its intelligence by other means, but it had in reality infiltratedNOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Thanks for keeping us abreast of no evidence.
I wonder if we should log or list the endless excuses and dodges they are using in lieu of evidence.
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More disappearing evidence ...
Quote:MORE AT http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-10-16/fusion-gps-founders-refuse-co
Firm Behind "Trump Dossier" Refuses To Comply With Congressional Subpoena
The three co-founders of Fusion GPS, the opposition research firm responsible for overseeing the creation of the infamous “Trump dossier”, will refuse to comply with a subpoena ordered by House Intelligence Committee Chairman Devin Nunes, according to a letter from their attorneys originally obtained by Business Insider.
mply-congressional-subpoena
JSF- creating a log of all of the crap that was splattered by "anonymous sources", and then tracking it to its ultimate resolution ... either withdrawn, rejected/ disproved, or verified .... would be an extremely useful exercise in ACTUAL journalism (as opposed to the bloviating and hyperventilation that usually fills the media). Unfortunately, it would take far more time than I have available. Even this thread is only on a catch-as-catch-can basis; I'm sure I missed a lot. In order to do a credible job, I'd have to research every item and make sure I wasn't missing anything. It's a great idea, tho.
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
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Of course, this disappearing evidence isn't covered by the MSM.
Meanwhile, new anti-Trump 'above the fold' articles are being published.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/inside-the-adult-day-care-cent
er-how-aides-try-to-control-and-coerce-trump/2017/10/15/810b4296-b03d-11e7-99c6-46bdf7f6f8ba_story.html
"Inside the ‘adult day care center’: How aides try to control and coerce Trump
Some White House aides spend a significant part of their time devising ways to rein in the impetuous president, angling to avoid outbursts that might work against him, according to interviews with 18 aides, confidants and outside advisers. By Ashley Parker and Greg Jaffe"
Trump is not the problem. He set himself against the Deep State's agenda. And the Deep State's been heading for WWIII for years.
As for you, you're just a Deep State useful idiot, furthering its agenda. So I hope you enjoy cesium in your coffee. You've earned it.
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Still no evidence?
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I keep hearing that the 18 Clintonistas and Obamanistas that Mueller has hired are digging into 16-years-ago Trump activities.
Is that evidence that there is no evidence?
How else to prove absence of proof than the absence of pursuit of the non-evidence?
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Still no evidence?
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Quote:There is evidence. Did you notice that Wilbur Ross is still on the job? That is because a Republican Congress doesn't care. Congress doesn't care that Ross paid Trump for the job. Robert Mueller will not let you or his targets know early what the evidence is. Mueller will wait until after the Republicans lose control of Congress because only then will Congress start caring about evidence.
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Still no evidence?
www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2017/11/wilbur-ross-seems-to-have-a-ser
ious-shipping-problem/
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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Quote:you claim evidence, but have no evidence of any evidence.
Originally posted by second:Quote:There is evidence. Did you notice that Wilbur Ross is still on the job? That is because a Republican Congress doesn't care. Congress doesn't care that Ross paid Trump for the job. Robert Mueller will not let you or his targets know early what the evidence is. Mueller will wait until after the Republicans lose control of Congress because only then will Congress start caring about evidence.
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Still no evidence?
www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2017/11/wilbur-ross-seems-to-have-a-ser
ious-shipping-problem/
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Apparently, still no evidence.
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Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
I keep hearing that the 18 Clintonistas and Obamanistas that Mueller has hired are digging into 16-years-ago Trump activities.
Is that evidence that there is no evidence?
How else to prove absence of proof than the absence of pursuit of the non-evidence?
Do Right, Be Right. :)
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Quote:That is a great JPEG. And from PBS?
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
I keep hearing that the 18 Clintonistas and Obamanistas that Mueller has hired are digging into 16-years-ago Trump activities.
Is that evidence that there is no evidence?
How else to prove absence of proof than the absence of pursuit of the non-evidence?
Do Right, Be Right. :)
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Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Not seeing anything offhand to carry over from the other thread. If I do, I will add it here >>>>
Here you go, a link to evidence. http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=61377
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And this thread had survived so long without a troll....
Evidence of idiocy was not the topic here.
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Siggy/Kiki's record of "no evidence" claims:
"No evidence" of Russian special forces taking over Crimea.
"No evidence" that pro-Russian separatists shot down MH17.
"No evidence" that Assad gassed his own people.
And now:
"No evidence" of Trump campaign collusion with Russia.
We'll see if this claim works out any better for them than the others.
-------------------------------------------------------
"Objective truths are established by evidence. Personal truths by faith. Political truths by incessant repetition."
Russia's and Assad's War Crimes in Syria - http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60278
Syrian regime collusion with ISIS - http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60521
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Quote:That's not what I said. What I said was: their presence was non-violent. It's hard to "take over" a place without firing a shot.
Originally posted by kpo:
Siggy/Kiki's record of "no evidence" claims:
"No evidence" of Russian special forces taking over Crimea.
Quote:That's not what I said. I said (early on) that I would wait for the evidence to come in
"No evidence" that pro-Russian separatists shot down MH17.
Quote:That's not what I said. I said the evidence was meager, and there was evidence pointing to a false flag.
"No evidence" that Assad gassed his own people.
Quote:So far, no evidence. Manafort had dealing with Ukraine, not Russia. Flynn is being investigated about Turkey, not Russia. The "golden showers" dossier looks like a complete fabrication. None of Trump's campaign staff got any opposition research on Hillary. Assange did not get his info from the Russians. Everything so far has been a bust.
And now: "No evidence" of Trump campaign collusion with Russia.
Quote:Thanks for lying about what I said.
We'll see if this claim works out any better for them than the others.= KRAPO
So far, there is "no evidence" that you're the teeniest bit honest. You're just a liar and a troll, incessantly repeating your propaganda to establish a "political truth".
But dood, if you really feel that there is EVIDENCE, FEEL FREE TO POST IT RIGHT HERE, RIGHT NOW.
Or STFU about it.
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
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Still no evidence, KRAPO?
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
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Quote:yowzers. 3 minute response time. Impressive. I have done better, but not with regularity.
Originally posted by SIGNYM:Quote:That's not what I said. What I said was: their presence was non-violent. It's hard to "take over" a place without firing a shot.
Originally posted by kpo:
Siggy/Kiki's record of "no evidence" claims:
"No evidence" of Russian special forces taking over Crimea.Quote:That's not what I said. I said (early on) that I would wait for the evidence to come in
"No evidence" that pro-Russian separatists shot down MH17.Quote:That's not what I said. I said the evidence was meager, and there was evidence pointing to a false flag.
"No evidence" that Assad gassed his own people.Quote:So far, no evidence. Manafort had dealing with Ukraine, not Russia. Flynn is being investigated about Turkey, not Russia. The "golden showers" dossier looks like a complete fabrication. None of Trump's campaign staff got any opposition research on Hillary. Assange did not get his info from the Russians. Everything so far has been a bust.
And now: "No evidence" of Trump campaign collusion with Russia.Quote:Thanks for lying about what I said.
We'll see if this claim works out any better for them than the others.= KRAPO
So far, there is "no evidence" that you're the teeniest bit honest. You're just a liar and a troll, incessantly repeating your propaganda to establish a "political truth".
But dood, if you really feel that there is EVIDENCE, FEEL FREE TO POST IT RIGHT HERE, RIGHT NOW.
Or STFU about it.
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And STILL no evidence, KRAPO?
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
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Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:Quote:That's not what I said. What I said was: their presence was non-violent. It's hard to "take over" a place without firing a shot.
Originally posted by kpo:
Siggy/Kiki's record of "no evidence" claims:
"No evidence" of Russian special forces taking over Crimea.
Ah, the old "they didn't fire a shot" Russian propaganda talking point. Do you know, Sig, that about a year before I started talking to you and Kiki about Russia, I had arguments online with a group of Russians, about Ukraine etc? And that now, years later, my arguments with you and kiki go exactly the same - talking point for talking point? It's uncanny. Like you and they get your news from exactly the same source, or something.
So I'll say to you what I said to them then: If I stick a gun to your head and take your purse, is that non-violent?
And yes, you absolutely DID claim they weren't taking over:
Signym (2014): "But, yes, there were "little green men" in Crimea, in the background and not doing anything, as far as I - or anyone- can tell."
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=58021&p=1
Quote:
So far, no evidence. Manafort had dealing with Ukraine, not Russia. Flynn is being investigated about Turkey, not Russia. The "golden showers" dossier looks like a complete fabrication. None of Trump's campaign staff got any opposition research on Hillary. Assange did not get his info from the Russians. Everything so far has been a bust.
Any objection to me copying this to the predictions thread to see how well it fares?
-------------------------------------------------------
"Objective truths are established by evidence. Personal truths by faith. Political truths by incessant repetition."
Russia's and Assad's War Crimes in Syria - http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60278
Syrian regime collusion with ISIS - http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60521
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HEY KRAPO!
Wasn't it you who insinuated in this very thread that there WAS evidence??
So, STILL no evidence?
Put up or STFU about it.
Quote:Does my comment look like "prediction" to you??? Or are you applying your own twisted definitions, again?
Any objection to me copying this to the predictions thread to see how well it fares? - KRAPO
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
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Quote:Still no evidence, KRAPO?
So far, there is "no evidence" that you're the teeniest bit honest. You're just a liar and a troll, incessantly repeating your propaganda to establish a "political truth".
But dood, if you really feel that there is EVIDENCE, FEEL FREE TO POST IT RIGHT HERE, RIGHT NOW.
Or STFU about it.
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
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What if Trump was competent? Is there evidence he would then achieve some of Signym's goals for America? Or would he finally become the effective authoritarian he really wants to be?
In a November 2 interview on WMAL radio in Washington, DC, Trump lamented his inability to use his authority to prosecute his political enemies. “You know the saddest thing, because I’m the president of the United States, I am not supposed to be involved with the Justice Department,” Trump said. “I am not supposed to be involved with the FBI. I’m not supposed to be doing the kinds of things that I would love to be doing. And I’m very frustrated by it.”
But let us not become so world-weary, so jaded, that we let an admission this grotesque pass without alarm. Trump is changing us. Had any predecessor said the things about FBI Trump said, the country would have been convulsed. But Trump’s comments did not lead every paper; they did not drive every newscast. Shock is a defense mechanism. We should worry when we notice we are losing ours. The country is becoming accustomed to the president like an autocrat, lamenting that he is not sufficiently able to use the federal government to pursue his political enemies.
To the extent we let Trump’s comments pass, it is because we are calmed by his incompetence, lulled by his indiscipline. "He says some crazy shit sometimes," one senior GOP aide told Politico. "We are getting used to handling it." We have grown accustomed to ignoring our president, or to assuming others will keep him contained.
Read his statement again: “I am not supposed to be involved with the FBI. I’m not supposed to be doing the kinds of things that I would love to be doing. And I’m very frustrated by it.” To hear those words from another president would be to assume that frustration would be followed by action, that the executive would be busying himself behind the scenes figuring out how to achieve what it is he wants done, that his top aides would be strategizing options and concocting workarounds.
With Trump, follow-through is presumed unlikely. He does not have the attention span to drive past the obstacles before him. And Trump has systematically alienated many of the institutional actors whose support he would need for a power grab — he has attacked the FBI and the CIA, insulted Attorney General Jeff Sessions and Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein, feuded with key members of Congress. Like a cartoon villain, he is more interested in monologuing about his dastardly schemes than in doing the hard work necessary to achieve them.
But what if Trump was focused, disciplined, capable? What if his ends were the same but his means were changed? What if he worked assiduously to build relationships with the intelligence agencies, the military, and congressional leaders? What if he carefully chose his words? What if he was able to build a well-staffed executive branch where talented loyalists worked daily to achieve his goals? He (or Mike Pence) might have seven more years to get it together and make it happen.
Remember that Trump, for all his flaws and failures, has nevertheless marshaled a powerful machine behind his worst instincts. Much of the American right has eagerly followed him into the breach and is even now pushing him to go further. The conservative media has responded to the Russia investigation by trying to persuade itself, and its followers, that it is Trump’s enemies who should be investigated, that the special prosecutor must step down. Congressional Republicans are trying to build Trump’s case, or at least be seen trying to build Trump’s case, even as they block efforts to peer into Trump’s finances or protect Robert Mueller’s investigation. And amid all this, 31 percent of Americans continue to say that Trump has both the temperament and the personality required by the presidency.
Is Signym in the 31 percent?
www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/11/6/16610412/trump-autocrat-just
ice-fbi-illiberal
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GOALPOST-MOVING from SECOND.
And yet, no evidence.
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
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Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
HEY KRAPO!
Wasn't it you who insinuated in this very thread that there WAS evidence??
By pointing out all the previous times you've screeched "No evidence!" only to be later proven wrong? That's not insinuating there's evidence, it's insinuating you have a bad track record of reading the evidence.
Quote:Quote:Does my comment look like "prediction" to you??? Or are you applying your own twisted definitions, again?
Any objection to me copying this to the predictions thread to see how well it fares? - KPO
I'll take that as no objection.
-------------------------------------------------------
"Objective truths are established by evidence. Personal truths by faith. Political truths by incessant repetition."
Russia's and Assad's War Crimes in Syria - http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60278
Syrian regime collusion with ISIS - http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60521
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Quote:insisted on looking for evidence, and even pointing out the kinds of evidence that should be available such as artillery shells; chemical analysis of residues; eyewitness testimony; radar and satellite imagery; lines of burnt out vehicles, bodies and prisoners; intercepted communication; etc instead of jumping to conclusions based on one piece of data ... or nothing at all except accusation ...
HEY KRAPO! Wasn't it you who insinuated in this very thread that there WAS evidence?? - SIGNY
By pointing out all the previous times you'vescreeched "No evidence!" only to be later proven wrong?
Quote:good track record of understanding what evidence IS and what it isn't
... that's not insinuating there's evidence, it's insinuating you have abad track record of reading the evidence
Quote:Of course, because you're being a dick, where everyone can see it now.
Any objection to me copying this to the predictions thread to see how well it fares? - KPO
Does my comment look like "prediction" to you??? Or are you applying your own twisted definitions, again?- SIGNY
I'll take that as no objection.= KRAPO
SO, NO EVIDENCE. Just incessant repetition from you.
And now, with more asshole-ness and open dishonesty than ever!
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If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
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In the meantime, in a thread devoted to evidence, nobody has brought any forward yet.
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Quote:From yesterday, you will find thousands of words of evidence at:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
In the meantime, in a thread devoted to evidence, nobody has brought any forward yet.
www.theguardian.com/news/2017/nov/15/how-trump-walked-into-putins-web-
luke
The inside story of how a former British spy was hired to investigate Russia’s influence on Trump – and uncovered explosive evidence that Moscow had been cultivating Trump for years.
"Just as Nixon was re-elected during the early stages of Watergate, Trump won the presidential election, to general dismay, at a time when the Russia scandal was small but growing. Steele had found prima facie evidence of a conspiracy, but by and large the US public knew nothing about it. In November, his dossier began circulating in the top national security echelons of the Obama administration. But it was too late."
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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My god, what a long-winded reiteration of allegations. In the entire article, they only mention the word "evidence" twice, and one of those in in the subheading, without actually bringing any to the table. It is, literally, entirely hearsay, as the article itself makes clear:
Quote:
Normally an intelligence officer would debrief sources directly, but since Steele could no longer visit Russia, this had to be done by others, or in third countries. There were intermediaries, subsources, operators – a sensitive chain. Only one of Steele’s sources on Trump knew of Steele.
But they spend a lot of words trying to attach favorable adjectives to a former British spy!
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
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Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
My god, what a long-winded reiteration of allegations. In the entire article, they only mention the word "evidence" twice, and one of those in in the subheading, without actually bringing any to the table. It is, literally, entirely hearsay, as the article itself makes clear:Quote:
Normally an intelligence officer would debrief sources directly, but since Steele could no longer visit Russia, this had to be done by others, or in third countries. There were intermediaries, subsources, operators – a sensitive chain. Only one of Steele’s sources on Trump knew of Steele.
Actually, much of the what was in the report has been substantiated. Some has not. Mueller is very thorough. In the end all your denials about Trump, his people and Russia will be addressed in Congress and the courts.
After our elections in 2018 if the democrats do good, it's over for Russia. It's over for Trump. Right now that's the time frame. Unless the democrats do poorly.
Of course you'll still be saying there was no evidence. It's what you do.
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Quote:It has? What? Where? LINKS PLEASE
Actually, much of the what was in the report has been substantiated. - THUGR
Now's your chance, THUGR! You've flubbed the last year; time to bring on the real stuff!
EDITED TO ADD: If there was communication between Trump and the Kremlin, the NSA surely would have recorded it. Perhaps there are records yet to come out, but so far, nothing has appeared. It's not like investigators would be limited to somebody's say-so. Surveillance is a powerful thing, and electronic records are everywhere.
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
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Quote:Actually, it is not hearsay. Steele recognised that no piece of intelligence was 100% right. According to friends, he assessed that his work on the Trump dossier was 70-90% accurate. Over eight years, Orbis had produced scores of reports on Russia for private clients. A lot of this content was verified or “proven up”. As Steele told friends: “I’ve been dealing with this country for 30 years. Why would I invent this stuff?”
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
My god, what a long-winded reiteration of allegations. In the entire article, they only mention the word "evidence" twice, and one of those in in the subheading, without actually bringing any to the table. It is, literally, entirely hearsay . .
.
I will give you a real life intelligence report: On Monday I was asked how Donald was doing (different Donald). I said he had chemo five times. I completely botched the "evidence" because the truth was Donald had radiation five times. But I did get the main point correct: Donald is in grave danger, as is the other Donald.
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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So he assessed his own work. Got it.
There was a question in the article that they didn't really answer, and it was How does he know he wasn't being fed misinformation?
Other than his assessment of the reliability of his contacts .... or what he TELLS us his assessment is ... what else is there to go on?
It's still hearsay, and so far no corroborating evidence.
FOR EXAMPLE: Trump stayed at a hotel? Did he or his staff pay for it? Is there a record of payment? Maybe Mueller is ferreting out those very details now, but so far nothing has come out.
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
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Quote:Signym, have I told you today you are full of shit? Long after Trump has opened his Presidential Library at a Trump golf course, you will still be full of shit. Has Trump made public his tax returns? The ones he promised to make public? We could get the proof, the "corroborating evidence", that Trump is innocent if he would make those available, but he has not.
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
So he assessed his own work. Got it.
There was a question in the article that they didn't really answer, and it was How does he know he wasn't being fed misinformation?
Other than his assessment of the reliability of his contacts .... or what he TELLS us his assessment is ... what else is there to go on?
It's still hearsay, and so far no corroborating evidence.
FOR EXAMPLE: Trump stayed at a hotel? Did he or his staff pay for it? Is there a record of payment? Maybe Mueller is ferreting out those very details now, but so far nothing has come out.
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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Quote:
Originally posted by second:
Signym, have I told you today you are full of shit? Long after Trump has opened his Presidential Library at a Trump golf course, you will still be full of shit. Has Trump made public his tax returns? The ones he promised to make public? We could get the proof, the "corroborating evidence", that Trump is innocent if he would make those available, but he has not.
He was never under any obligation to release his tax returns. We've been through all of this before. The IRS knows what is in them. They are much more qualified to assess that situation than either you or Rachel Maddow, and certainly more qualified to do so than the ignorant masses that mostly have no idea how to even do their own taxes.
Quote:
As Steele told friends: “I’ve been dealing with this country for 30 years. Why would I invent this stuff?”
I dunno, Mr. Steele. Why does anybody who works in high profile government jobs lie all the time? I'm guessing because it's in the job description.
A lot of the people are going to believe you because they want with all of their hearts to believe you. A lot of the people are going think you're full of shit because no matter what anybody says they're going to think you're full of shit.
Those of us who are truly in the middle are going to sit and watch and see how this all plays out. Welcome to the freak show.
Do Right, Be Right. :)
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Quote:You have never been audited. There is an audit where the IRS takes your word, only looks at your forms. Then there is the audit where the IRS sends a team to the field and compares your word to reality. In Trump's case, he has never had a team of auditors sent to Trump's properties all over the world to see if he has told the truth because the IRS does not have a budget to do that for anyone.
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:Quote:
Originally posted by second:
Signym, have I told you today you are full of shit? Long after Trump has opened his Presidential Library at a Trump golf course, you will still be full of shit. Has Trump made public his tax returns? The ones he promised to make public? We could get the proof, the "corroborating evidence", that Trump is innocent if he would make those available, but he has not.
He was never under any obligation to release his tax returns. We've been through all of this before. The IRS knows what is in them. They are much more qualified to assess that situation than either you or Rachel Maddow, and certainly more qualified to do so than the ignorant masses that mostly have no idea how to even do their own taxes.Quote:
As Steele told friends: “I’ve been dealing with this country for 30 years. Why would I invent this stuff?”
I dunno, Mr. Steele. Why does anybody who works in high profile government jobs lie all the time? I'm guessing because it's in the job description.
A lot of the people are going to believe you because they want with all of their hearts to believe you. A lot of the people are going think you're full of shit because no matter what anybody says they're going to think you're full of shit.
Those of us who are truly in the middle are going to sit and watch and see how this all plays out. Welcome to the freak show.
Do Right, Be Right. :)
Politicians lie, but this is different. I suppose if you wanted to be generous, you might say this is the least effective and trustworthy administration since Warren G. Harding, whose administration was overwhelmed by the Teapot Dome scandal in 1921, in which Harding’s secretary of the interior leased Navy petroleum reserves in Wyoming and California to private oil companies at incredibly low rates without a competitive bidding process. That was a massive scandal, one of the biggest we’ve seen at the level of politics.
There are other examples, of course. Most obviously, there’s Nixon and Watergate, which was a watershed moment in American political history. Ulysses S. Grant’s reputation as a Civil War general was shattered by the Whiskey Ring scandal in 1875, in which Treasury officials basically stole tax dollars from alcohol distillers. Other presidents, like Bill Clinton, have lied shamelessly as well.
Still, I think what we’re seeing right now will, eventually, rise above these examples, with the possible exception of Watergate. But a lot of this depends on the outcome of the Russia investigation. If it goes the way it appears to be going, it will exceed even Watergate.
www.vox.com/2017/11/16/16643614/trump-administration-corruption-russia
-investigation
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Quote:And do you assume that Trump's tax returns are NOT subject to subpoena by Mueller? Because the IRS may not have the resources for a field audit, but Mueller seems to be pretty generously funded.
You have never been audited. There is an audit where the IRS takes your word, only looks at your forms. Then there is the audit where the IRS sends a team to the field and compares your word to reality. In Trump's case, he has never had a team of auditors sent to Trump's properties all over the world to see if he has told the truth because the IRS does not have a budget to do that for anyone- SECOND
I mean, how stupid are you?
Mueller will spend a long time crawling up the assholes of everyone in the Trump admin. He'll probably find evidence of tax evasion or other financial crimes - yanno, like you would find if you crawled up the assholes of every politician in DC - but the "Russia collusion" story will most likely not figure into the picture.
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
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Quote:I looked for a new story exclusively about Trump's slimy business and I found one for today. Robert Mueller must be pleased to have such an abundance of material to work with in order to get Trump directly rather than the smaller fish swimming with Trump: https://qz.com/1132442
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
And do you assume that Trump's tax returns are NOT subject to subpoena by Mueller? Because the IRS may not have the resources for a field audit, but Mueller seems to be pretty generously funded.
I mean, how stupid are you?
Mueller will spend a long time crawling up the assholes of everyone in the Trump admin. He'll probably find evidence of tax evasion or other financial crimes - yanno, like you would find if you crawled up the assholes of every politician in DC - but the "Russia collusion" story will most likely not figure into the picture.
The Trumps could be liable to criminal charges in the US, says Global Witness’s Anti-Money Laundering head Mark Hays, but only if they knew or suspected that their buyers paid with laundered money. “We’re not saying they had knowledge but that given all these red flags it appears that they at very least turned a blind eye, and may have actively worked to avoid knowing what’s going on,” Hays alleges.
A Trump Organization spokesman told Reuters that the company had no involvement in the brokerage process and that, “no one at the Trump Organization, including the Trump family, has any recollection of ever meeting or speaking with” Nogueira, who sold many of the apartments.” In contrast, Nogueira told Reuters that he met many times with Trump’s daughter Ivanka, and that the Panama project was her “baby.”
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"As if" there is only one potential handler of laundered money?
Don't you think that the hot real estate markets of Vancouver, London, San Fran and NYC receive a significant flow of money from Chinese, Saudi, and Russian/ Eastern European oligarchs stashing away their stolen funds into real estate?
Basically, this is a politically-motivated with hunt. Congresspeople apparently engage in insider trading. The Clintons had an alleged pay-for-play Foundation, from which they allegedly stole hundreds of millions. Throw a stick at any DC insider or at any of the top 0.1% and you'll find offshore accounts, shady dealings, money laundering, market manipulation and insider trading, to say the least.
It's too bad Mueller can't expand his probe to EVERY DC politician; then the swamp would REALLY get drained.
Still waiting for that evidence on "Russian collusion" though. So far, nothing.
Some say that the interviews of Trump's top aides will be done by month's end. So after that, we'll see what he comes up with. I guess we'll see how focused Mueller will manage to stay.
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
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Quote:And too bad Trump wants Mueller to stop investigating EVERYBODY. "We call on appropriate law enforcement authorities, including Special Counsel Robert Mueller and Congress, to investigate these allegations and, if appropriate, hold President Trump accountable for his actions."
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
It's too bad Mueller can't expand his probe to EVERY DC politician; then the swamp would REALLY get drained.
www.globalwitness.org/en/campaigns/corruption-and-money-laundering/nar
co-a-lago-panama
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Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
"As if" there is only one potential handler of laundered money?
Don't you think that the hot real estate markets of Vancouver, London, San Fran and NYC receive a significant flow of money from Chinese, Saudi, and Russian/ Eastern European oligarchs stashing away their stolen funds into real estate?
Basically, this is a politically-motivated with hunt. Congresspeople apparently engage in insider trading. The Clintons had an alleged pay-for-play Foundation, from which they allegedly stole hundreds of millions. Throw a stick at any DC insider or at any of the top 0.1% and you'll find offshore accounts, shady dealings, money laundering, market manipulation and insider trading, to say the least.
It's too bad Mueller can't expand his probe to EVERY DC politician; then the swamp would REALLY get drained.
Still waiting for that evidence on "Russian collusion" though. So far, nothing.
Some say that the interviews of Trump's top aides will be done by month's end. So after that, we'll see what he comes up with. I guess we'll see how focused Mueller will manage to stay.
Again with the Clintons and the argument that it doesn't matter if Trump is guilty of anything. He should not be bothered. Why, because others are guilty as well, and even more, because so many are getting away with it.
Your hypocrisy as you attack our democratic institutions suggesting they are all corrupt, is only out done by your own inner corruption.
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What I'm objecting to is the constant one-sided focus on Trump.
IF YOU HAD RAISED OBJECTIONS TO THE CLINTON'S UNETHICAL, IF NOT DOWNRIGHT ILLEGAL BEHAVIOR, I'D SAY THAT YOU REALLY WERE INTERESTED IN DRAINING THE SWAMP.
But the reality that that you're either partisan hacks (like SECOND) or deep-state trolls (like THUGR) and nobody would EVER mistake you for objective arbiters of anything.
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
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Still no evidence.
Just hype, hoopla, smoke and mirrors.
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Quote:I hear about Clinton's behavior all the time in Texas from over-stimulated Republicans: Did you hear she killed Vince Foster? Did you know drugs were smuggled into Arkansas under Clinton protection? Did you know she violated email protocol that put the USA at risk of something? Did you know her negligence killed those embassy guys in Libya? Did you know Clinton would start a war with Russia and there would be H-bombs dropped on Houston? And on and on and on. And everyone of those Republicans and Signym think they are speaking The Truth when what they are actually doing is only imaginative conspiracy theorizing.
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
What I'm objecting to is the constant one-sided focus on Trump.
IF YOU HAD RAISED OBJECTIONS TO THE CLINTON'S UNETHICAL, IF NOT DOWNRIGHT ILLEGAL BEHAVIOR, I'D SAY THAT YOU REALLY WERE INTERESTED IN DRAINING THE SWAMP.
But the reality that that you're either partisan hacks (like SECOND) or deep-state trolls (like THUGR) and nobody would EVER mistake you for objective arbiters of anything.
Where did Signym get the idea of "objective arbiters"? I don't think they are easy to find in this world. The arbiters would have to be from outside the USA. They couldn't be Russians. They couldn't be Canadians because Trump has an effect on Canada. Maybe a Swiss objective arbiter? To get a provably "objective arbiter" you'd need a time machine to bring someone from the distant past, before there was a USA. Socrates? Shakespeare?
Should it ever make it into a courtroom, Trump has this going for him: an undernoticed series of Supreme Court decisions in recent years have made it nearly impossible for the government to secure convictions in cases of corruption. We are in a situation where politicians whose conduct meets any normal person’s understanding of corrupt behavior aren’t held legally accountable.
www.vox.com/the-big-idea/2017/11/15/16656784/menendez-corruption-supre
me-court
But there is evidence a prosecutor could use to beat Trump to death:
www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2017/11/the_trump_to
wer_in_panama_may_have_been_used_to_launder_drug_money_from.html
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Quote:
Originally posted by second:
I hear about Clinton's behavior all the time in Texas from over-stimulated Republicans: Did you hear she killed Vince Foster? Did you know drugs were smuggled into Arkansas under Clinton protection? Did you know she violated email protocol that put the USA at risk of something? Did you know her negligence killed those embassy guys in Libya? Did you know Clinton would start a war with Russia and there would be H-bombs dropped on Houston?
Do Right, Be Right. :)
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How Russian Trolls Targeted The 2016 Election With Lies
Fake news tweets and social media posts that flooded the internet leading up to the 2016 presidential election came from a Russian troll factory that works around the clock like any IT facility—except lies were pumping out to control the American mind and put Donald Trump in the White House.
The Internet Research Agency, which works on behalf of Russia inside a guarded, concrete building in St. Petersburg, has day and night shifts and hundreds of former journalists and bloggers creating thousands of posts with false and controversial information to reach certain quotas.
It was "a merry-go-round of lies," Vitaly Bespalov, 26, who worked at the agency, told NBC News. "When you get on the carousel, you do not know who is behind you and neither you are aware of who is in front of you—but all of you are running around within the same circle.”
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/how-russian-trolls-targeted-th
e-2016-election-with-lies/ar-BBF7DmL
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So THUGR, SECOND if you can show that what I've posted is "false" and "lies" then maybe you win a point.
But, what HAVE I posted?
That I thought Hillary was ill because she stumbled and fainted her way thru the campaign (ON VIDEO), and demonstrated some seriously strange behavior ON VIDEO (which I linked) which looked like nothing so much as an overdose of Parkinson's medication? (And BTW, yes, I have seen that IRL so I'm not making an entirely uneducated connection here).
That she laughed and clapped like a delighted 6-year-old getting a b'day gift, when she said We came, we saw, he died ON VIDEO about Qaddafi being raped anally with a bayonet before being killed, and that her policy on Libya plunged that nation into a horror of total collapse, extremist terrorism, and civil war; and created a refugee crisis from which it has not yet emerged?
Quote:
Migrants from west Africa being ‘sold in Libyan slave markets’
West African migrants are being bought and sold openly in modern-day [public] slave markets in Libya, survivors have told a UN agency helping them return home.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/apr/10/libya-public-slave-aucti
ons-un-migration
That she promised a "more kinetic" approach to Syria? (DOCUMENTED)
That she had over 60,000 emails on a separate (non State Dept) server, and had 33,000 "private" emails (about "yoga" and Chelsea's "wedding") bleach-bitted AFTER the files were subpoenaed?
That Bill Clinton managed to arrange to talk with Loretta Lynch DOJ while the investigation was ongoing, which disqualified her from the investigation? That Comey had originally characterized her handling of emails as "gross negligence" before deciding (outside of his purview) not to prosecute? That BOTH Clintons could reasonably be investigated for "OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE" because they have done things far, far beyond anything that Trump or his campaign has done, and the only thing holding back an investigation is the long-held tradition of not clobbering your political rival after they lost the election?
That the Clinton Foundation took hundreds of millions of "donations" from foreign powers, notably the Saudis, in what appeared to be a "pay to play" arranged with Hillary's State Department, and that the Clintons have been accused of stealing hundreds of millions of dollars (most notably from the Haiti Relief fund)?
That Hillary's State Department fomented war in both the Ukraine ("fuck the EU" Nuland) and Libya ("highly experience" Stevens)?
That Bill has taken multiple flights with his good friend, convicted pedophile Jeffrey Epstein, on Epstein's "Lolita Express"?
****
So, Jared Kushner forgot to tell somebody about a few emails from a Russian asking for a meeting ... a meeting which Kushner rejected? How does that compare to bleach-bitting 33,000 emails which are under subpoena?
So, Trump fired Comey? How does that compare to Bill meeting with the head of the DOJ during an ongoing investigation of his wife?
****
I have posted, multiple times, that the Clintons and the Trumps, morally-speaking, were more-or-less on the same plane, with a slight edge towards Trump simply because he never had the YEARS OF CORRUPTION WHILE IN OFFICE in his background.
Show me how everything that I posted is "lies" and "fake news", or STFU.
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
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Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
So THUGR, SECOND if you can show that what I've posted is "false" and "lies" then maybe you win a point.
But, what HAVE I posted?
We have been and will continue to, point out what you are doing in real time. No need to rehash it all.
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Quote:
We have been and will continue topoint outLIE ABOUT what you are doing in real time. - THUGR
Fixed it for you.
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
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Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:Quote:
We have been and will continue topoint outLIE ABOUT what you are doing in real time. - THUGR
Fixed it for you.
I offer as proof who the liar is by pointing out your continued practice of changing what others post. It's also what your favorite source zero hedge does.
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Meh...
While I'm going to admit that it would get extremely annoying to me if somebody constantly was doing that to my posts, nobody would read that and think you actually said what was in the "fixed" post.
I do check my own quote when somebody quotes me and so far I've never seen anybody intentionally change what I post and try to pass it off as something I actually said.
The worst I've ever seen happen is that a quote of somebody else's was mistakenly attributed to me on occasion. I don't know if I've caught this everytime it's happened, but whenever I did I got an apology and it was fixed.
Do Right, Be Right. :)
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Quote:Nobody would ever read my post ... where I clearly strike out your words and insert my own comments ... and assume it was yours. It is very clear that I think you're a liar, not that YOU admit to being one.
We have been and will continue topoint outLIE ABOUT what you are doing in real time. -THUGR
Fixed it for you.- SIGNY
I offer as proof who the liar is by pointing out your continued practice of changing what others post. It's also what your favorite source zero hedge does. - THUGR
None of your "friends" here on the board will back you up on your particular grotch about this because it's clear TO EVERYONE EXCEPT YOU what you posted versus what I posted.
And only you would pretend that a clearly edited post was some sort of "lie".
So sit on it and spin.
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
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Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:Quote:Nobody would ever read my post ... where I clearly strike out your words and insert my own comments ... and assume it was yours. It is very clear that I think you're a liar, not that YOU admit to being one.
We have been and will continue topoint outLIE ABOUT what you are doing in real time. -THUGR
Fixed it for you.- SIGNY
I offer as proof who the liar is by pointing out your continued practice of changing what others post. It's also what your favorite source zero hedge does. - THUGR
None of your "friends" here on the board will back you up on your particular grotch about this because it's clear TO EVERYONE EXCEPT YOU what you posted versus what I posted.
And only you would pretend that a clearly edited post was some sort of "lie".
So sit on it and spin.
It's that you do this type thing in many different forms Sig, not just the way you do it here. As I've stated before, you even make up some quoted statements yourself. Then you argue with yourself as though you were right and the other supposed person was wrong. You're sick comrade.
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Quote:Oh baloney. Have you been able to show that anything that I just posted about Hillary was a "lie"?
It's that you do this type thing in many different forms Sig,- THUGR
No???
Just because you disagree with me doesn't make me a "liar".
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
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Quote:Signym, while you wait for an answer, you can read about why Putin wanted Trump to repeal the Magnitsky Act. That repeal won't be happening now that Congress knows about Trump Jr meeting with Russians seeking to repeal the law.
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Have you been able to show that anything that I just posted about Hillary was a "lie"?
No???
Just because you disagree with me doesn't make me a "liar".
www.gq.com/story/bill-browder-putin-enemy-number-1
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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SECOND, I don't think you understand how little I care about "what Putin wants".
First of all, he's over there; we're over here. Until his actions impact OUR interests, then I don't give a fuck; I really don't. But if we screw up our democracy and our economy responding to something that really isn't our business - much less inside of our scope of knowledge- that's a big problem. Restricting free speech or blowing huge wads of debt at the military over specious concerns ... not a good thing. Don't we have enough problems of our own, without creating more?
Secondly, citing "what Putin wants" is ridiculous because (a) Russian government action is decided by their Security Council, not Putin and (b) I doubt anyone really can explain, let alone predict, what Russia will do next; so clearly they don't know "what Russia wants" in any sense of the phrase.
Oh, and BTW ... I ALSO don't give a fuck whether Russia - or any other nation- expresses its POV in the media: social, American, or otherwise. I feel that Americans should be able to parse truth from fiction, and the important from the pointless; and if many Americans are so weak-minded that this is a difficult task for them, then I suggest that they stop letting their emotions get yanked by advertising and propaganda, and mentally toughen up and learn how to THINK. It will be better for them and for our country overall, and the only ones who will come out the worse for it will be the manipulators.
One more thing.
I have often heard of various industrialists described as being "close to Putin" with no evidence whatsoever establishing this supposed connection. I stumble over that every time because I sincerely doubt that anyone knows much of anything about who is "close to Putin" and who isn't; and just to confirm that concept, I heard a very interesting video from a very Xtian fundamentalist guy who has a deep and abiding hatred of all things Rothschild, who explains in great detail about an industrial magnate (who was widely referred to as being "close to Putin") and how he wrapped up all of the power and aluminum production in Montenegro, screwed his customers and fired all of his workers in a Russian town, and was represented by ... Davis- Manafort when negotiating with Rothschilds and Soros.
But when you see the interaction between this magnate (and his minions) and Putin, you realize that he wasn't "close to Putin" at all; at least, not at that moment!
This wasn't Putin settling a labor dispute, this was Putin bitch-slapping a backstabbing oligarch.
I'll see if I can find that video again, because it reveals how little WE know about the details of what is really going on in Russia, and hopping up and down about boogeyman stories doesn't help.
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
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Approx 12:24 - 15:45
Make of the video what you will, the only thing that I find really unsupported is the reiteration that the oligarch, Oleg Deripaska is "close to Putin" because that public bitch-slapping suggests otherwise.
The relationships between Putin and the Russian oligarchs are changeable and shrouded in secrecy. These oligarchs are essentially very greedy people, much like George Soros or Bill Gates or Jeff Bezos, and their interests and Russia's Security Council's interests seldom overlap. .
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
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SIG in the two posts about this, once again gives a full throated explanation on how Putin is innocent of all things when it comes to America. Sounds just like Trump, it could be anybody.
"Oh, and BTW ... I ALSO don't give a fuck whether Russia - or any other nation- expresses its POV in the media: social, American, or otherwise. I feel that Americans should be able to parse truth from fiction, and the important from the pointless." =SIG
We do this with the lies you post everyday SIG.
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AND STILL NO EVIDENCE, eh comrade troll?
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
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Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
AND STILL NO EVIDENCE, eh comrade troll?
You really should try and tell the truth once SIG, you'll feel better. If you won't believe me maybe you'll believe one of these guys.
No legacy is so rich as Honesty. ~ William Shakespeare
Truth is generally the best vindication against slander. ~ Abraham Lincoln
You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all the people all the time. ~ Abraham Lincoln
Never apologize for showing feeling. When you do so, you apologize for the Truth.
~Benjamin Disraeli
“The Light is more than some abstract, unknowable energy force. Light is Truth. If Light is truth, then darkness must be lies. Each and every lie we tell to ourselves and others casts the shadow of separation upon us. Every time even the most minor deception is revealed and the truth is made known we are re-united with the Light. So, Let there be Light. Those are the words by which you can create your own magnificent world.” - Renee Bledsoe, Addiction Alchemy
Truth is such a rare thing, it is delighted to tell it. ~ Emily Dickinson
The Truth which has made us free will in the end make us glad, also. ~ Felix Adler
I was brought up to believe that the only thing worth doing was to add to the sum of accurate information in the world. ~ Margaret Mead
Always tell the Truth. That way, you don’t have to remember what you said.
~ Mark Twain
When in doubt, tell the Truth. ~ Mark Twain
It is the responsibility of intellectuals to speak the Truth and expose lies.
~ Noam Chomsky
The Truth is always exciting. Speak it, then. Life is dull without it. ~ Pearl S. Buck
Fiction is the Truth inside the lie. ~ Stephen King
The biggest consequence to telling a lie is, it leads you to telling another one.
~ Gary King
If you do not tell the Truth about yourself you cannot tell it about other people.
~Virginia Woolfe
Who lies for you will lie against you. ~ Bosnian Proverb
No man has a good enough memory to make a successful liar. ~ Abraham Lincoln
A half Truth is a whole lie. ~ Yiddish Proverb
Those who think it is permissible to tell white lies soon grow color-blind. ~ Austin O’Mally
With lies you may get ahead in the world – but you can never go back. ~ Russian proverb
A lie has speed, but Truth has endurance ~ Edgar J. Mohn
Truth is the most valuable thing we have, so I try to conserve it. ~ Mark Twain
A lie may take care of the present, but it has no future. ~ unknown author
We tell lies when we are afraid….afraid of what we don’t know, afraid of what others will think, afraid of what will be found out about us. But every time we tell a lie, the thing that we fear grows stronger. ~ Tad Williams
Honesty is the first chapter in the book of wisdom. ~ Thomas Jefferson
There is no such thing as an inconsequential lie. ~ Gary King
Truth allows you to live with integrity. Everything you do and say shows the world who you really are. Let it be the Truth. ~ Oprah Winfrey
What you get in your life is not a result of what you want, it is a result of Who You Are. ~ Marlon Smith
If you want to ruin the Truth, stretch it. ~ unknown author
The Truth is more important than the facts. ~ Frank Lloyd Wright
The Truth needs no rehearsal. ~ Barbara Kingsolver
Truth and Honesty is the oldest and most powerful of all of the human values.
~ Gary King
Have the courage to say No. Have the courage to face the Truth. Do the right thing because it is right. These are the magic keys to living your life with integrity.
~ W. Clement Stone
Integrity is doing the right thing, even if nobody is watching. ~ unknown author
Every lie has a consequence.....you cannot escape that.
~ Gary King
Integrity is telling myself the Truth. Andy Honesty is telling the Tr
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Quote:Prosecutors care, even if you don't. Robert Mueller needs to persuade grand juries that there is a crime to be prosecuted and he needs to explain Trump's and Putin's motivation. Trump being elected to repeal the Magnitsky Act for Putin is crucial for explaining why Putin would be motivated to help Trump's campaign. Without the Magnitsky Act, all the evidence in the world doesn't tell a story that a judge or a jury can follow to a conclusion. Without a story the evidence becomes a million dead words on a thousand pieces of dry paper that don't make any sense to a jury.
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
SECOND, I don't think you understand how little I care about "what Putin wants".
First of all, he's over there; we're over here. Until his actions impact OUR interests, then I don't give a fuck; I really don't.
www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2017/07/magnitsky-act-kremli
n/535044/
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First you're assuming a motivation. THEN you're cherry-picking items to support your assumptions. And there's STILL no actual evidence anything happened.
Nevertheless, I assume this is going to go like WhiteWaterGate. It started with WhiteWater and ended up with Monica's blue dress. Bill was impeached on nothing at all related to the original item.
HAS IT NOT OCCURRED TO YOU BY NOW THAT IF YOU HAVE TO RESORT TO LOGICAL FALLACIES AND TROLLING YOUR SO-CALLED ARGUMENTS ARE LIES?
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THUGR
Quote:Fifty quotes "about the truth" and still no evidence? Son, in order to KNOW the truth you first have to open your eyes.
AND STILL NO EVIDENCE, eh comrade troll? - SIGNY
You really should try and tell the truth once SIG, you'll feel better. If you won't believe me maybe you'll believe one of these guys.- THUGR
SECOND
Quote:In other words, Mueller needs to spin a yarn? Maybe you need to tell that to THUGR, since HE seems to believe that "the truth" should figure into this somehow.
Robert Mueller needs to persuade grand juries ... [and] tell a story that a judge or a jury can follow
One of the things I'm really good at (in my job) is letting the data speak to me. You just gotta throw the data on the table and absorb it, without trying to impose a picture on the data.
I think the Trump campaign committee had far fewer inimical foreign contacts than the Clinton campaign committee.
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
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Quote:
I do check my own quote when somebody quotes me and so far I've never seen anybody intentionally change what I post and try to pass it off as something I actually said.
Kiki did this to me a few weeks ago. Only time I've seen it done.
-------------------------------------------------------
"Objective truths are established by evidence. Personal truths by faith. Political truths by incessant repetition."
Russia's and Assad's War Crimes in Syria - http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60278
Syrian regime collusion with ISIS - http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60521
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Quote:Lawyers are not scientists. A prosecutor will paint an ugly picture, a caricature, of the defendant for the judge and jury. The prosecutor who has Clinton on trial would recast your sentence as "Trump campaign had fewer inimical foreign contacts than Clinton" then give a blizzard of examples of the Clinton campaign in contact with foreigners. Snow jobs are how prosecutors turn suspicion into convictions from juries.
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
One of the things I'm really good at (in my job) is letting the data speak to me. You just gotta throw the data on the table and absorb it, without trying to impose a picture on the data.
I think the Trump campaign committee had far fewer inimical foreign contacts than the Clinton campaign committee.
Quote:A prosecutor cannot win if the jury is family of the defendant. Well, Robert Mueller cannot win because half the Senate are Trump’s “family”, the Republicans.
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
SECONDQuote:In other words, Mueller needs to spin a yarn? Maybe you need to tell that to THUGR, since HE seems to believe that "the truth" should figure into this somehow.
Robert Mueller needs to persuade grand juries ... [and] tell a story that a judge or a jury can follow
Is Mueller wasting his time collecting evidence since a conviction is mathematically impossible when the Senate has 52 Republicans? I don’t think so because Mueller’s evidence, and Mueller’s story explaining the Trump/Putin connection, can influence Congressional Republicans.
After he was impeached, President Andrew Johnson didn’t get removed from office, but he did become a political nonentity without influence on public policy. The same could happen to Trump, depending upon how dramatic the story Mueller writes using the evidence. I predict it will be a very dramatic story because, generally, prosecutors aren’t on the defendants’ side. But Trump might fool me by getting a new prosecutor who just happens to be a loyal happy member of his Republican extended family. That would be dramatic twist, would it not?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presidency_of_Andrew_Johnson#Aftermath
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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Quote:Lawyers aren't scientists, but YOU should be, otherwise you can't claim to know what's going on.
Lawyers are not scientists ... Snow jobs are how prosecutors turn suspicion into convictions from juries.
Lawyers have agendas: Prosecutors seek to prosecute, and defenders seek to defend. So far, you've been far into the prosecutor's camp: biased and prejudiced, which is what I've been saying all along.
I "get" that you hate Trump, but maybe you shouldn't be driven by bias and emotion. By allowing yourself to be so driven that you fail to look at ALL of the data is how people get manipulated by TPTB. And YOU don't want to be manipulated, do you?
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
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Quote:Do three lawyers have a meeting before a trial and roll the dice to decide who is judge, who is prosecutor, and who is defense attorney? No! They arrive in the courtroom already having taken a side. They have prejudged the case. Are jurors selected at random? No! The defense and prosecution exclude jurors to gain advantage. Trials are in no way dispassionate seeking of the Truth. There is nothing scientific happening in a courtroom. And impeachment is even more manipulative and unscientific. It is a clash of wills.
Originally posted by SIGNYM:Quote:Lawyers aren't scientists, but YOU should be, otherwise you can't claim to know what's going on.
Lawyers are not scientists ... Snow jobs are how prosecutors turn suspicion into convictions from juries.
Lawyers have agendas: Prosecutors seek to prosecute, and defenders seek to defend. So far, you've been far into the prosecutor's camp: biased and prejudiced, which is what I've been saying all along.
I "get" that you hate Trump, but maybe you shouldn't be driven by bias and emotion. By allowing yourself to be so driven that you fail to look at ALL of the data is how people get manipulated by TPTB. And YOU don't want to be manipulated, do you?
Check into the impeachment of President Andrew Johnson if you want to see how messy a Trump impeachment will be:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Johnson#Impeachment
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
SECONDQuote:In other words, Mueller needs to spin a yarn? Maybe you need to tell that to THUGR, since HE seems to believe that "the truth" should figure into this somehow.
Robert Mueller needs to persuade grand juries ... [and] tell a story that a judge or a jury can follow
One of the things I'm really good at (in my job) is letting the data speak to me. You just gotta throw the data on the table and absorb it, without trying to impose a picture on the data.
And here we have it. SIG tells us if Mueller is able to make a case against Trump ( which is seconds point ), he will be lying, spinning a yarn. Nothing else needs to be said. This shows what I've said about SIG from day one to be true. She has an agenda and facts don't enter into it.
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Quote:SECOND, basically you're saying that you don't give a crap about the truth because you're describing - and excusing- a system in which truth doesn't figure.
Do three lawyers have a meeting before a trial and roll the dice to decide who is judge, who is prosecutor, and who is defense attorney? No! They arrive in the courtroom already having taken a side. They have prejudged the case. Are jurors selected at random? No! The defense and prosecution exclude jurors to gain advantage. Trials are in no way dispassionate seeking of the Truth. There is nothing scientific happening in a courtroom. And impeachment is even more manipulative and unscientific. It is a clash of wills. - SECOND
I KNEW THAT.
Yanno, here I am ... arguing for the betterment of decision-making, the improvement of public discourse, and the advancement of our democracy ... and there YOU are saying It's an impassioned mob! It's always been an impassioned mob! It SHOULD be an impassioned mob!
I argue that YOU are the jury, not the prosecutor or the defense, and it is YOUR job to come up with a careful consideration of the truth, as best as you can. So far, you've been the prosecutor, who (BTW) has STILL not brought actual evidence to the table.
******
Quote:
And here we have it. SIG tells us if Mueller is able to make a case against Trump ( which is seconds point ), he will be lying, spinning a yarn.- THUGR
THUGR .... I'm simply saying what SECOND said, only in different words. "Spinning a yarn" isn't the same as "lying". It's "telling a story" ... which is what SECOND said.
I noticed that SECOND didn't disagree with my re-statement, instead he doubled down on it. If you disagree with SECOND's characterization- that Mueller has to "tell a story" that makes sense to a jury - take it up with him, not me. A lot of bullshit from you, a lot of false personal attacks on me and mis-characterizations (lies) about what I've posted.
But still, no evidence.
WHEN THE EVIDENCE BECOMES FULLY PUBLIC, THEN WE CAN MAKE A JUDGMENT. BUT NOT UNTIL THEN.
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
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Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:Quote:SECOND, basically you're saying that you don't give a crap about the truth because you're describing - and excusing- a system in which truth doesn't figure.
Do three lawyers have a meeting before a trial and roll the dice to decide who is judge, who is prosecutor, and who is defense attorney? No! They arrive in the courtroom already having taken a side. They have prejudged the case. Are jurors selected at random? No! The defense and prosecution exclude jurors to gain advantage. Trials are in no way dispassionate seeking of the Truth. There is nothing scientific happening in a courtroom. And impeachment is even more manipulative and unscientific. It is a clash of wills. - SECOND
I KNEW THAT.
This is a troubling conversation you're having. If the facts don't warrant charges or a trial then there won't be any. There are those who would site times when this was not the case. Where personalities here would obfuscate, or darken the reputation of the rule of law in this country, as they attempt to make the case the rule of law in this country is completely broken. Sounds like what is being said here. Typical of SIG, it's what she does. SECOND, I hope this is not what you are trying to convey.
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HAS IT NOT OCCURRED TO YOU BY NOW THAT IF YOU HAVE TO RESORT TO LOGICAL FALLACIES AND TROLLING YOUR SO-CALLED ARGUMENTS ARE LIES?
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Quote:A reminder of an extremely peculiar fact about America: Only the United States makes routine use of jury trials in a wide variety of non-criminal cases. Other common law legal jurisdictions use jury trials only in a very select class of cases that make up a tiny share of the overall civil docket (like defamation suits in England and Wales), but true civil jury trials are almost entirely absent elsewhere in the world.
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
I noticed that SECOND didn't disagree with my re-statement, instead he doubled down on it. If you disagree with SECOND's characterization- that Mueller has to "tell a story" that makes sense to a jury - take it up with him, not me. A lot of bullshit from you, a lot of false personal attacks on me and mis-characterizations (lies) about what I've posted.
But still, no evidence.
WHEN THE EVIDENCE BECOMES FULLY PUBLIC, THEN WE CAN MAKE A JUDGMENT. BUT NOT UNTIL THEN.
Jury trials in multi-cultural countries with a history of ethnic (or political) tensions may be problematic, and lead to juries being unduly biased and partial.
The fact that juries do not often have to give a reason for their verdict is also criticized, since opponents argue it is unfair for a person to be deprived of life, liberty or property without being told why it is being done so. In contrast where there is a decision by a judge or judges, they are required to provide often detailed reasons of both fact and law as to why their decision was made.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jury_trial
Impeachment is a civil matter, not criminal, right? I don't expect prison, but ostracism, for Trump.
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/11/19/trump-first-moscow-trip-215
842
When did the KGB open a file on Donald Trump? We don’t know, but Eastern Bloc security service records suggest this may have been as early as 1977. That was the year when Trump married Ivana Zelnickova, a twenty-eight-year-old model from Czechoslovakia. Zelnickova was a citizen of a communist country. She was therefore of interest both to the Czech intelligence service, the StB, and to the FBI and CIA.
The KGB also distributed a secret personality questionnaire, advising case officers what to look for in a successful recruitment operation. In April 1985 this was updated for “prominent figures in the West.” The directorate’s aim was to draw the target “into some form of collaboration with us.” This could be “as an agent, or confidential or special or unofficial contact.”
The form demanded basic details—name, profession, family situation, and material circumstances. There were other questions, too: what was the likelihood that the “subject could come to power (occupy the post of president or prime minister)”? And an assessment of personality. For example: “Are pride, arrogance, egoism, ambition or vanity among subject’s natural characteristics?” (Need I add that "pride, arrogance, egoism, and vanity" are Trump's only characteristics?)
The most revealing section concerned kompromat. The document asked for: “Compromising information about subject, including illegal acts in financial and commercial affairs, intrigues, speculation, bribes, graft … and exploitation of his position to enrich himself.” Plus “any other information” that would compromise the subject before “the country’s authorities and the general public.” Naturally the KGB could exploit this by threatening “disclosure.”
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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ANOTHER long-winded, fact-less article from SECOND!
Wow, you really like yarn-spinning, don't you SECOND?
But still, NO EVIDENCE.
******
When I scanned the article, one of the first things I questioned was .... HOW DOES THIS ARTICLE CLAIM IT GOT ITS INFO? After all, this is KGB stuff from three decades ago.
My second response is .... THEY PROBABLY HAD FILES ON EVERYONE, so who cares?
*****
I scanned the article to answer the first question, and nowhere does it indicate where it got this so-called information. In fact, it disavows documented sources, and is full of weasel-words ...
Quote:So, they haven't accessed any records to support their claim about Trump?
It was around this time that Donald Trump appears to have attracted the attention of Soviet intelligence. How that happened, and where that relationship began, is an answer hidden somewhere in the KGB's secret archives. Assuming, that is, that the documents still exist.
The article is full of irrelevant details which are meant to give weight to its speculation about Trump. Wading thru the tons of crap about nothing in particular, this is what the article says about Trump:
Quote:personnel records
Trump's first visit to Soviet Moscow in 1987 looks, with hindsight, to be part of a pattern....
When did the KGB open a file on Donald Trump? We don’t know, but Eastern Bloc security service records
Quote:I have to say, that's quite a leap of imagination
suggest this may have been as early as 1977
Quote:Or if they regarded him at all ...
At this point it is unclear how the KGB regarded Trump ...
Quote:
In Dubinina’s account she admits her father [Ambassador to Washington] was trying to hook Trump [for what?] ... Dubinin’s other daughter, Irina, said that her late father— he died in 2013—was on a mission as ambassador. This was, she said, to make contact with America’s business elite. For sure, Gorbachev’s Politburo was interested in understanding capitalism. But [let's ignore what the Ambassadors other daughter said, and claim that the] invitation to Trump to visit Moscow looks like a classic cultivation exercise
Quote:
Precisely what Putin did while working for the KGB’s First Directorate in Dresden is unknown.
Okay, I've had enough wading thru bullshit. Everything in this excerpt regarding Trump is a series of disclaimers and suppositions. Like I said: spinning a yarn.
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
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Quote:You are so silly, Signym. Do you really need more "evidence" that "pride, arrogance, egoism, and vanity" are Trump's only characteristics?
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
ANOTHER long-winded, fact-less article from SECOND!
Wow, you really like yarn-spinning, don't you SECOND?
But still, NO EVIDENCE.
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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Quote:
Originally posted by second:Quote:You are so silly, Signym. Do you really need more "evidence" that "pride, arrogance, egoism, and vanity" are Trump's only characteristics?
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
ANOTHER long-winded, fact-less article from SECOND!
Wow, you really like yarn-spinning, don't you SECOND?
But still, NO EVIDENCE.
I would add SECOND that some of us here called this from day one.
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Quote:Well now. That is taking a few steps backward, for the "let's hope and pretend there is evidence" side.
Originally posted by G:Quote:Anyone who thinks someone on this site is going to have The Evidence is pretty foolish. Get real.
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
But still, NO EVIDENCE.
==============================
Practically abandoning the premise.
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Quote:
Originally posted by second:
Do you really need more "evidence" that "pride, arrogance, egoism, and vanity" are Trump's only characteristics?
LOL, what?
I didn't even know that was up for debate.
Do Right, Be Right. :)
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Quote:Another bogus claim from a chronic liar.
Originally posted by G:
There has been plenty of evidence for us that he's ... been sucking Putin's d for years.
What a surprise.
HAS IT NOT OCCURRED TO YOU BY NOW THAT IF YOU HAVE TO RESORT TO LOGICAL FALLACIES AND TROLLING YOUR SO-CALLED ARGUMENTS ARE LIES?
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Quote:Agreed
Well now. That is taking a few steps backward, for the "let's hope and pretend there is evidence" side. Practically abandoning the premise.- JSF
None us who believe Trump is guilty of being Trump, "hoped" or "pretended." There has been plenty of evidence for us that he's a piece of sh*t- GSTRING
Quote:Focus, GSTRING, focus. This whole thread is open for any actual EVIDENCE of "collusion" with Russia, and so far ....
and has been sucking Putin's d for years.- GSTRING
But, yanno, if you really think that you have evidence of Trump colluding with Russia ... or more specifically, colluding with Putin ... for "years" ... then by all means, bring it here.
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Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
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Quote:
Hate to disappoint you *jeanuses* but neither you nor I nor anyone here have the resources and legal power and authority of Mueller, so how would we know what he knows? For such a simple question you don't seem smart enough or honest enough to know the answer.- GSTRING
Well then, what you've done is "decide" AHEAD OF ANY EVIDENCE that Trump is "guilty" of colluding with Russia. Which is what I've been saying all along, so nice of you to finally admit it that you don't have even one foot in reality.
So, if you've "decided" (and I use that term advisedly) on various issues in absence of evidence, what made you "decide" in certain directions?
Is it possible that it's because you've been told, by the mainstream media, over and over again what you should think and how you should react, and you're just dumb enough to do what you're told?
You have no qualms that the mainstream media ... which you apparently trust implicitly ... might not be telling you the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth? That they might be foisting on you a torrent of bullshit, accusations, and pre-digested opinion, and that you're naive enough, lazy enough, and stupid enough to swallow it whole? That you're just as conditioned as any of Pavlovs's dogs?
Hmmm...?
NOPE?
Those thoughts never crossed your mind?
I'm sure when Mueller issues indictments, there will be more to talk about. EVEN THEN I don't trust you to be able to separate fact from opinion, so your contribution to the conversation will be less than zero.
******
So, given your Pavolvian response to all things "russia" and "trump", I'm sure it will twist your knickers to learn that Trump spent an hour on the phone with Putin.
OMG!!!!!
TRUMP TALKED TO PUTIN!!!
MAN THE NUKES!!!!
******
Something very strange is going on in the Mideast, and it's not about Russia. I'm sure you've read about the "night of the long knives" in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, in which Mohamed bin Salman (son of Salman, who is the current dotard king) ensured his ascension to the throne by arresting dozens and killing a few current and former Royal Family rivals and current or former ministers of various media, military, and security entities. MBS is shaking them down for most of their wealth, and has taken control of the military, the media, and large investment firms; some say he's managed to extort close to a trillion dollars out of his rivals.
At the same time, MBS seems determined to start YET ANOTHER war in the Mideast, THIS time in Lebanon, and THIS time with the help of the Israelis and (eventually) us Americans. Also, (possibly) THIS time without Saudi Arabia's famous proxy jihadists/ terrorists. It's like his plans against Iran in Syria (war crimes), Yemen (ongoing war crimes) and Qatar have spoiled, but he still wants another whack at it.
He wouldn't have done this without an OK from Trump. There's a lot of speculation about what this all means for the KSA and the USA.
One thing that everyone agrees on is that many of those arrested were
1) Big donors to Hillary Clinton (King Abdullah via Selwa Al-Hazzaa, and Alwaleed bin Talal via Muna Abu Soliman http://www.nationalreview.com/article/419178/clinton-foundation-took-m
oney-saudi-propagandists-joel-gehrke) or
2) Deeply connected to the Bush administration (Prince Bandar "Bush" bin Sultan) or
3) Langley's (CIA's) favorite (Mohammed bin Nayef) http://www.atimes.com/article/inside-story-saudi-night-long-knives/
So whatever else is happening in Saudi Arabia, those Saudis with connections to our "deep state" have been cleanly (and in a few cases, permanently) swept out. I'm sure that this is acceptable to Trump.
*****
So there is a lot for Trump and Putin to talk about regarding the Mideast. My guess is that they've spent quite a bit of time talkin
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I see no evidens that the GRU social media soldierz arent getting overtime pay here.
Spredding BS everywhere helps mask the stink uv TrumPutin.
This frum 2016, but its worth a 2nd viewing:
----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early
http://www.7532020.com
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Quote:I know because none of you have brought it here.
You keep saying there's NO EVIDENCE, and I keep asking "How do you know?"- GSTRING
Despite the fact that you (you, THUGR, DULL, JO, KRAPO, and SECONDRATE) have been frantically scouring the media for anything that would bolster your claims about the very item that you've all been hounding about ... Trump's "collusion with Russia to win the election" .... Remember? Wasn't that what you all were stressing about not six short months ago? It was all you could post about! ... none of you have been able to find anything.
Quote:I've already said that we need for Mueller to come out with whatever evidence he has - I'm assuming he had evidence of SOMEthing, altho it's probably not about "collusion with Russia to win the election". When Mueller comes out with his indictments, then we'll have something to talk about. Until then, it's just rumor, accusation, and hysteria.
... you keep dodging the question. - GSTRING
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Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
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Quote:So basically "guilty until proven innocent"?
I see no evidens that the GRU social media soldierz arent getting overtime pay here.- JO
And you complain about Trump?
And, you want people to vote for you?
Why???
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Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
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Quote:That's what I've been asking for since his election. But all I've been seeing is pointless WaPo, NYT, CNN, Rachel Maddow, Fareed etc screeds being posted here.
You keep saying there's NO EVIDENCE, and I keep asking "How do you know?"- GSTRING
I know because none of you have brought it here.- SIGNY
Oiy. I mean this sincerely: I know you are not dumb enough to believe that any of us would have the resources to KNOW what Mueller knows, so please stop making yourself look foolish. It would be great to have an honest debate about Trump - your president - and the horrible things he's doing, wouldn't it? Even any of the good things he's doing if you can find any.- GSTRING
Quote:There is thread after thread, post after post, purporting to have "evidence" when it has nothing of the sort; just allegations about some random bank "pinging" Trump tower; or some time when two people attended the same conference; or suppositions and conjectures like what SECOND posts; and replays of breathless rants by Rachel. 720 posts in "Evidens" alone. If I were to count up the number of times THUGR called me a "Russian troll" simply for asking for evidence, that would probably add another couple of hundred right there.
More gross over statement on your part - you make yourself look desperate when you do this:Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Despite the fact that you (you, THUGR, DULL, JO, KRAPO, and SECONDRATE) have been frantically scouring the media for anything that would bolster your claims about the very item that you've all been hounding about ... Trump's "collusion with Russia to win the election" .... Remember? Wasn't that what you all were stressing about not six short months ago? It was all you could post about! ... none of you have been able to find anything.
Not frantic - what would be the point? None of us can do anything to him if we found The Evidence anyway, so again, silly on your part.
If there's "no evidence", why all of the posts flooding this forum?
Quote:All I'm trying to do point out the difference between accusation and evidence.
Originally posted by SIGNYM: I've already said that we need for Mueller to come out with whatever evidence he has - I'm assuming he had evidence of SOMEthing, altho it's probably not about "collusion with Russia to win the election". When Mueller comes out with his indictments, then we'll have something to talk about. Until then, it's just rumor, accusation, and hysteria.- SIGNY
It feels to me like you have been the one being hysterical. I can't figure why you care so much when people say bad things about Trump, but there you are, post after post calling us names and pointing fingers and saying NO EVIDENCE!- GSTRING
It's a distinction that every single one of you seems to have a great deal of difficulty grasping. Finally, it seems, that despite the mountains of accusatory posts, you at least have figured out that there isn't any evidence among them.
So that's a step in the right direction.
I'm SURE something will come out later. OF COURSE we won't have all of the details that a select committee or grand jury will have.
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Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
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Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
What I'm objecting to is the constant one-sided focus on Trump.
IF YOU HAD RAISED OBJECTIONS TO THE CLINTON'S UNETHICAL, IF NOT DOWNRIGHT ILLEGAL BEHAVIOR, I'D SAY THAT YOU REALLY WERE INTERESTED IN DRAINING THE SWAMP.
But the reality that that you're either partisan hacks (like SECOND) or deep-state trolls (like THUGR) and nobody would EVER mistake you for objective arbiters of anything.
Bullshit and subterfuge. I've said I hated Clinton dozens of times since her campaign began. My only words of kindness towards her was that she would be way better than Trump for this country. A fact we see reinforced daily.
T
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Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Focus, GSTRING, focus. This whole thread is open for any actual EVIDENCE of "collusion" with Russia, and so far ....
I'm new to this (these) threads, so bear with me, but has anyone mentioned the huge number of established meetings/connections that Trump staff have with various Kremlin-tied Russians? Here's a good summary:
And this timeline:
http://www.msnbc.com/morning-joe/watch/the-definitive-timeline-of-the-
trump-russia-connections-part-1-1100719171804
The "no evidence" mantra is a bit puzzling in the context of this very clear and very strange (and sometimes overtly shady) pattern of Russian dealings. These links and meetings provide a very plausible motive AND mechanism for collusion - and are not easily explained away innocently. So... these well-established links and meetings don't count as evidence, why?
-------------------------------------------------------
"Objective truths are established by evidence. Personal truths by faith. Political truths by incessant repetition."
Russia's and Assad's War Crimes in Syria - http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60278
Syrian regime collusion with ISIS - http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60521
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Just as a reminder, Trump is in trouble for Obstructing Justice:
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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Quote:Yes, you have posted this before, But when I asked you for LINKS to your previous statements, you didn't provide any.
Bullshit and subterfuge. I've said I hated Clinton dozens of times since her campaign began. My only words of kindness towards her was that she would be way better than Trump for this country. A fact we see reinforced daily. - THUGR
Now, the only reason why I'm asking your to quote yourself and provide links is because I recall NO SUCH STATEMENTS from you. Not that I'm calling you a liar, but I sure would like to see some EVIDENCE that you ever posted any such statements.
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
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Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:Quote:Yes, you have posted this before, But when I asked you for LINKS to your previous statements, you didn't provide any.
Bullshit and subterfuge. I've said I hated Clinton dozens of times since her campaign began. My only words of kindness towards her was that she would be way better than Trump for this country. A fact we see reinforced daily. - THUGR
Now, the only reason why I'm asking your to quote yourself and provide links is because I recall NO SUCH STATEMENTS from you. Not that I'm calling you a liar, but I sure would like to see some EVIDENCE that you ever posted any such statements.
Sounds like you work for Trump to me. Can't even remember your own threads or how to find them. It's all there, and you know that.
T
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I remember you posting that once or twice, recently. A year after the election. Certainly not before.
You know, it would be no big deal for you to post-edit one of your pre-election posts - the same way you frequently post-edit your other posts - and link that.
HAS IT NOT OCCURRED TO YOU BY NOW THAT IF YOU HAVE TO RESORT TO LOGICAL FALLACIES AND TROLLING YOUR SO-CALLED ARGUMENTS ARE LIES?
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Quote:Sounds to me like no such posts ever occurred.
Sounds like you work for Trump to me. Can't even remember your own threads or how to find them. It's all there, and you know that.- THUGR
Yanno, THUGR, people have often said that I "supported Trump" and that I was unaware of his deficits. In reply, I was able to quote and link the many times I said he was a loose cannon, that his foreign policy was stupid, that he was probably only somewhat less corrupt than Hillary (simply because he had no years in office over which to accumulate official acts of corruption), and that he was a narcissist. And that was BEFORE the election.
So, my guess is that you didn't post any such statements about Hillary because you would have been able to retrieve your posts.
And since you weren't able to retrieve them when asked (twice) I'll assume that any statement that you can dredge up will, in fact, have been post-edited.
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
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