Brexit vote Thursday June 23
POSTED BY: SIGNYM
UPDATED: Tuesday, July 11, 2023 17:26
VIEWED: 10465
PAGE 4 of 10
Quote:
Originally posted by G:Quote:
Originally posted by second:
A petition calling for another referendum on whether Britain should stay in the European Union has now received at least 2.5 million signatures — a level that means it must now be debated by British politicians. It was apparently so popular that the British Parliament's website, where the petition was hosted, briefly crashed.
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/131215
< incredulous > an online petition ??????? < / oy >
Done!
Incredulous, troll much SIG?
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Quote:
A petition calling for another referendum on whether Britain should stay in the European Union has now received at least 2.5 million signatures — a level that means it must now be debated by British politicians. It was apparently so popular that the British Parliament's website, where the petition was hosted, briefly crashed.
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/131215
< incredulous > an online petition ??????? < / oy >
Done!
GSTRING
Incredulous, troll much SIG?-THIRDSTOOGE
How stupid do you get? Do you think "I" filled out that petition??? Sheesh, you embarrass even your friends!
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I'll tell you what I DON'T like about Trump: I think that he has never confronted either the international banking cartel, nor the CIA-State Dept multi-headed hydra, nor the military-industrial complex. The last person to confront them was JFK (BTW, ALL immigration was illegal under JFK) and look what happened to him.
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One of the things that baffles me mightily is the acceptance of "nationalism" as being an out-of-date and dangerous concept which should be consigned to the dustbin of history. In its place, a squishy sort of "internationalism" is advocated. Internationalism is egalitarian, it's multicultural and just so cool. Anyone who isn't "multicultural" is obsolete.
What the advocates of "multiculturalism" don't seem to realize is that there are no international democratic institutions. All of the international structures, like the EU, "free trade" agreements, and even the UN, are out of the reach of most people. We can't vote on any of the policies that are decided on by international committees, technocrats, and arbitrators. If people were to look with any sort of clarity on the role of the Eurocrats in bringing unending unemployment to people of Southern Europe and how their economies are being sacrificed to support the Euro (currency), and how "free trade" agreements will ensure that decisions about the environment, labor, food safety etc. will be made by trade lawyers in secret courts only on the basis of their effect on international trade, "internationalism" stops looking so good.
By handing over the ability to take control of their own national policies, people have given up on being able to control ANY policy. And they've given it up and gotten nothing in return except a warm, fuzzy, meaningless feeling.
What is so wrong with wanting to be able to set national policies, to control (or at least manage) the production and flow of goods, the value of your national currency, and the number of people immigrating to your country? Who would rather have policy set by some faceless, distant bureaucrat five borders away? Don't we have enough problems of non-responsive government already, without making it a lot worse?
Curiously, judging by some of the people on this board, their warm fuzzy feeling of world solidarity ends the moment they encounter someone who TRULY thinks differently. One of the things that is beginning to horrify Germans, for example, is their encounter with large a large group of people who have entirely different views about what's right and wrong, what's important and unimportant, and who should decide. So even the self-congratulatory feeling of being a "person of the world" comes to a screeching halt when some of the other people of the world are TOO different, and those differences go beyond tasty food and interesting music. So much for multiculturalism!
--------------
I'll tell you what I DON'T like about Trump: I think that he has never confronted either the international banking cartel, nor the CIA-State Dept multi-headed hydra, nor the military-industrial complex. The last person to confront them was JFK (BTW, ALL immigration was illegal under JFK) and look what happened to him.
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Quote:
Originally posted by G:Quote:
Originally posted by second:
A petition calling for another referendum on whether Britain should stay in the European Union has now received at least 2.5 million signatures — a level that means it must now be debated by British politicians. It was apparently so popular that the British Parliament's website, where the petition was hosted, briefly crashed.
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/131215
< incredulous > an online petition ??????? < / oy >
Done!
Brilliant G
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Quote:I see that a second EU Referendum petition has twenty time more signatures than the petition making it illegal for a company to require women to wear high heels at work.
Originally posted by kpo:
Brilliant G
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions?state=awaiting_debate
". . . many people signing it appear to be doing so from outside the UK. . . . Any signatures found to be fraudulent would be removed." - Second EU referendum petition investigated for fraud
www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36634407
If two percent of the voters had flipped from "leave" to "stay", the Brexit vote would have failed 49.9% versus 50.1%. To make a momentous decision based on only two percent is very odd. The US Constitution requires two-thirds majority vote in both the House of Representatives and the Senate and ratified by the legislatures of at least three-fourths of the states. For example, the 26th amendment needed those large majorities to lower the minimum voting age to eighteen.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twenty-sixth_Amendment_to_the_United_Sta
tes_Constitution
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Quote:I wonder, SECOND, if the split wasn't even higher than counted. Any time a nation refuses to run exit polls, (or for that matter denies international observation), I start to wonder what they're up to. Here's an idea: Maybe TPTB did manipulate the vote. Maybe the real vote to Brexit was a lot higher than the count showed. Maybe it was more like a 10% split.
If two percent of the voters had flipped from "leave" to "stay", the Brexit vote would have failed 49.9% versus 50.1%. To make a momentous decision based on only two percent is very odd. The US Constitution requires two-thirds majority vote in both the House of Representatives and the Senate and ratified by the legislatures of at least three-fourths of the states. For example, the 26th amendment required those large majorities to lower the minimum voting age to eighteen.
There was one thing I heard - more than once- about how people felt ahead of time, and it was this: Once outside of London, it was difficult to find ANYONE voting for Bremain. Apparently, Brexit sentiment was very strong, but the media coverage was so relentlessly negative that the Brexiteers felt isolated. But then, they came out higher numbers than expected. Maybe FAR higher numbers than expected. This is like the Greek vote, which turned out very, very different than what the polling anticipated.
I can't help thinking that someone ran the polling numbers, and told the top financialists ....Don't worry, we got this covered. . Which is why so much money poured into stocks and sterling. Only they didn't have it covered, at least not enough.
It's too bad nobody ran an actual exit poll, because now we'll never know how honest the vote counting really was. Maybe it was squeaky clean. But maybe it wasn't.
Just as an aside, there are British businessmen who have an interest in Brexit. It's the same split as in the USA Presidential election: The difference between NATIONAL businesses and INTERNATIONAL ones. In our case, Hillary would represent Bremain, and Trump would represent Brexit.
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I'll tell you what I DON'T like about Trump: I think that he has never confronted either the international banking cartel, nor the CIA-State Dept multi-headed hydra, nor the military-industrial complex. The last person to confront them was JFK (BTW, ALL immigration was illegal under JFK) and look what happened to him.
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Quote:And may I say that THUGR fell for it?
Brilliant G
Quote:
I see that a second EU Referendum petition has twenty time more signatures than the petition making it illegal for a company to require women to wear high heels at work.
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions?state=awaiting_debate
". . . many people signing it appear to be doing so from outside the UK. . . . Any signatures found to be fraudulent would be removed." - Second EU referendum petition investigated for fraud
www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36634407
SECOND
Of course they'll be. In fact, I wonder if too many fraudulent signatures will invalidate the entire online poll. Yep, brilliant indeed!
But I see that the usual suspects, who have nothing of interest to say but who nonetheless believe in their own incomparable (ahem!) intelligence, have not responded at all to the thought that being a "person of the world" might be a fundamentally flawed identity.
Quote:
What the advocates of "multiculturalism" don't seem to realize is that there are no international democratic institutions. All of the international structures, like the EU, "free trade" agreements, and even the UN, are out of the reach of most people. We can't vote on any of the policies that are decided on by international committees, technocrats, and arbitrators. If people were to look with any sort of clarity on the role of the Eurocrats in bringing unending unemployment to people of Southern Europe and how their economies are being sacrificed to support the Euro (currency), and how "free trade" agreements will ensure that decisions about the environment, labor, food safety etc. will be made by trade lawyers in secret courts only on the basis of their effect on international trade, "internationalism" stops looking so good.
By handing over the ability to take control of their own national policies, people have given up on being able to control ANY policy. And they've given it up and gotten nothing in return except a warm, fuzzy, meaningless feeling.
What is so wrong with wanting to be able to set national policies, to control (or at least manage) the production and flow of goods, the value of your national currency, and the number of people immigrating to your country? Who would rather have policy set by some faceless, distant bureaucrat five borders away? Don't we have enough problems of non-responsive government already, without making it a lot worse?
Curiously, judging by some of the people on this board, their warm fuzzy feeling of world solidarity ends the moment they encounter someone who TRULY thinks differently. One of the things that is beginning to horrify Germans, for example, is their encounter with large a large group of people who have entirely different views about what's right and wrong, what's important and unimportant, and who should decide. So even the self-congratulatory feeling of being a "person of the world" comes to a screeching halt when some of the other people of the world are TOO different, and those differences go beyond tasty food and interesting music. So much for multiculturalism!
At the same time that these mental midgets insist that they are persons of the world who value other cultures, they think nothing of bombing the snot out whole nations!
May I suggest a national identity that will be far more progressive than the one they currently follow? It has a few key elements:
FIRST, DO NO HARM.
As a nation of the world, one is not entitled to destroy other nations EXCEPT in direct self-defense. Bringing god to the heathens or Bringing democracy to the tyrannies or R2P at the point of a gun just never seems to work well. Historically, all it's managed to do is kill a shitload of people and install even worse tyrannies than before.
PLAY FAIR: TRADE FAIR
Don't economically exploit your fellow-nations. Now, generally, th
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And finally. Assuming that TPTB don't manage to find a way to delay or thwart Brexit entirely ....
Listening to the interview of a well-connected man, he said one thing that pointed to the future of Brexit. The reaction of the Eurocrats was that there should be two characteristics of Brexit:
1) It should be PAINFUL.
Contagion is to be avoided at all costs. No other nation should even think to leave the EU, with Britain hanging from a gibbet as an example. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gibbeting Apparently, the EU doesn't think much of democracy, and is willing to thwart it whether it happens in Greece or in the UK or anywhere else. Or, as Steimeir (German FM said)
Quote:I can't imagine what punishment they'll cook up, but I'm sure it's a doozy! And who is "we" and "us" anyway?
"We won't let anyone [including the people, apparently] take Europe from us".
2) It should be QUICK.
EU ministers believe that waiting until Cameron steps down and the Tories find a new PM -in October- is far too much uncertainty for the markets. Well, that right there pretty much tells you who they represent.
Again, assuming that TPTB don't find a way to block Brexit, I don't expect it to be easy. The closest example I can think of is Iceland, which went on a huge borrowing binge pre-2008. Man, it was party-time nationwide! But once their three major banks crashed in an orgy of self-dealing and corruption, the Icelanders did what no one else has done: They let their banks fold, nationalized them, and threw the bankers in jail. And this was AFTER the Parliament had voted to cave in! Iceland, like Britain, had a huge advantage over many other EU member states: It still had its own currency.
But while Icelanders did the right thing, they paid a price: Britain declared Iceland to be a "terrorist state" (for refusing to back British deposits in the Icelandic bank branches in Britain) and froze the Landsbanki assets in Britain, and British allies declared a freeze on all Icelandic assets everywhere. Iceland, in the throes of a financial crisis and a liquidity crisis, and with its financial lifelines cut, had to go begging for a creative loan from China. And although Iceland came through the ordeal in the end, their living standard has taken a hit: People are working harder for less.
I think there's a couple of reasons for that, but one of them is that a nation living within its means will never feel as prosperous as one borrowing to the hilt and partying like there's no tomorrow. Being responsible isn't going to be as much fun, there's no two ways about it. Britain - London, specially- is THE banking center of Europe. The British pound is (was?) unprecedentedly valued, making British purchases from the EU very cheap. In fact, that's one immediate complaint of young people: I won't be able to holiday in Europe like I used to.
--------------
I'll tell you what I DON'T like about Trump: I think that he has never confronted either the international banking cartel, nor the CIA-State Dept multi-headed hydra, nor the military-industrial complex. The last person to confront them was JFK (BTW, ALL immigration was illegal under JFK) and look what happened to him.
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"We won't let anyone take Europe from us".
Well, the Germans have a very comfortable role in the EU. The Greeks, Italians and Spanish - not so much. Or, more accurately, the German internationalists have a very comfortable role in the EU because they get to take advantage of other countries in the EU, especially the Greeks, Italians and Spanish. So of course they don't want the party to end!
"... although Iceland came through the ordeal in the end, their living standard has taken a hit: People are working harder for less."
As has the living standard of many people after 2008. Did Icelanders get disproportionately affected?
Let me just point out that the author left out vital relevant facts in the opinion piece. Doing that is known as cherry-picking. And whether you do that in the news, in discussion, in debate or in opinion, when you distort the facts, you've changed the nature of your communication into propaganda. But WE don't have any of THAT in the US, do we?!
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Quote:8 Apr, 2016: Three top figures from Iceland’s failed Kaupthing Bank have been released from jail after barely serving a quarter of their sentences due to a new law. The bankers have served just one year of their four-to-five year sentences. All were convicted of financial fraud ahead of the collapse of the country's biggest bank in October 2008.
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Again, assuming that TPTB don't find a way to block Brexit, I don't expect it to be easy. The closest example I can think of is Iceland, which went on a huge borrowing binge pre-2008. Man, it was party-time nationwide! But once their three major banks crashed in an orgy of self-dealing and corruption, the Icelanders did what no one else has done: They let their banks fold, nationalized them, and threw the bankers in jail.
But while Icelanders did the right thing, they paid a price: Britain declared Iceland to be a "terrorist state" (for refusing to back British deposits in the Icelandic bank branches in Britain) and froze the Landsbanki assets in Britain, and British allies declared a freeze on all Icelandic assets everywhere. Iceland, in the throes of a financial crisis and a liquidity crisis, and with its financial lifelines cut, had to go begging for a creative loan from China. And although Iceland came through the ordeal in the end, their living standard has taken a hit: People are working harder for less.
I think there's a couple of reasons for that, but one of them is that a nation living within its means will never feel as prosperous as one borrowing to the hilt and partying like there's no tomorrow. Being responsible isn't going to be as much fun, there's no two ways about it.
www.rt.com/news/338869-iceland-imprisoned-bankers-free/
Because of bank fraud, the market capitalization of the Icelandic stock exchange fell by more than 90%. Most Icelanders felt impoverished, stopped buying and selling to one another and to overseas, and thus they went from merely feeling poorer to actually being poorer. In time Icelanders understood how they had made themselves poorer and corrected themselves. Their economy then corrected itself:
www.tradingeconomics.com/iceland/gross-national-product
Calling Iceland a terrorist state was PM Gordon Brown being dishonest to save his own worthless baby-boomer ass. Did it work, Gordon? Where are you today?
www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2009/may/14/gordon-brown-iceland-fin
ance
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