Let's Try to Offend Kwicko!
POSTED BY: Kwicko
UPDATED: Sunday, June 24, 2012 22:49
VIEWED: 12157
PAGE 12 of 12
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What principle --- Work for us or die? Property is theft? We pay our goons so much they'll do what we want to you?
You don't need the military, or government, or religion, though all can be co-opted. Death, organization and ideology are mere tools, as is money. One tool works like any other, but money is the current one.
Interesting. We appear to have reached an understanding.
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Every surplus allows a parasitic social layer to evolve that wouldn't be survivable if resources were at a pre-technology level.
But with increasing technology you get pyramids, feudal kings and princes and dukes, k’uhul ajaw, or capitalists. I see no difference between them as they all seem to be a layer that creates, promotes and enforces their ability to skim unearned resources from the society.
Hmm, I see what you're talking about, though I'm not sure it's either technology OR surplus, as primitive societies have also had their bullies, and surplus is difficult to achieve while you're just struggling to survive as it is. But I think a society can be designed to be beneficial to everyone, the power hungry and regular citizens alike, without being predatory to the average citizen. I think in pursuing this goal, one of the necessary steps will be coming up with a fulfilling alternative to greed as a motivation, so that you sidestep the pollution and murder problems that causes, but you don't remove the personal rewards that people feel for creating stuff.
However, I also don't anticipate that everyone will want to live under this system, and I accept that. I'd like to see a kind of balance where I leave them alone and they leave me alone, unless they want to trade or vice versa.
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Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Hmm, I see what you're talking about, though I'm not sure it's either technology OR surplus, as primitive societies have also had their bullies, and surplus is difficult to achieve while you're just struggling to survive as it is. But I think a society can be designed to be beneficial to everyone, the power hungry and regular citizens alike, without being predatory to the average citizen. I think in pursuing this goal, one of the necessary steps will be coming up with a fulfilling alternative to greed as a motivation, so that you sidestep the pollution and murder problems that causes, but you don't remove the personal rewards that people feel for creating stuff.
However, I also don't anticipate that everyone will want to live under this system, and I accept that. I'd like to see a kind of balance where I leave them alone and they leave me alone, unless they want to trade or vice versa.
How do you suspend greed? What motivation could you you offer that would allow greater rewards than those that the most cunning and greedy can make in society?
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How do you suspend greed? What motivation could you you offer that would allow greater rewards than those that the most cunning and greedy can make in society?
Not suspend, redirect.
Encouraging and emphasizing the acts of creating or discovery via cultural values could provide a fulfilling goal where that greed and cunning could be utilized for personal gain, but without hijacking other citizens or encouraging theft or murder or recklessness or negligence. Our current social system just emphasizes greed and money even if it is only gained through parasitic behaviour, with a side order of materialistic consumerism to placate the masses, and that just doesn't work.
Also I'd like to simply not have a large government or other highly organized groups where material power could be accumulated.
Money, currency, trade, and economics are all just tools, I agree with 1kiki on that, and you can design them, and that can influence the kind of society you might have. If you have your economy represented by ONLY real world assets, it becomes difficult for people to fudge the books. But there's other possibilities, like writing code into computers that automatically spots discrepancies in financial records and fix the error even if the error was done intentionally. You can also create an economy that doesn't use interest or credit or have a stock market, all of which are potentially fatally flawed concepts for an economy. Things like that.
Laws and government are like a bludgeon, ugly and unwieldly, and the only way to avoid corruption is to have only as much law and government as you absolutely need, which should be very little with a properly designed system.
And I'm also partial to the idea of allowing communities to choose exactly what kind of government and economic system they want, so you could have an anarchic cooperative right next to a Ayn Rand capitalist enclave, and so long as one doesn't try to exert it's influence over the other, the systems should remain fairly workable and allow the citizens a far better choice in how they want to live and what they want in their society than can be offered by a wide-scale social system.
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As good as that sounds Byte, and it does sound really good and desirable, I think greed would creep back in within a year or two, greed is an innate flaw in humans and I posite that there's no way to be rid of it entirely.
My only complaint about Quicko is his rather rabid brand of Atheism, but he's not nearly as bad as my obnoxious neighbor so its definitely manageable. Other than that I can't think of any complaints about Quicko, he is generally a nice sort and has been consistantly agreeable and kind and respectful with me, I like having him here and I can tell he's a good husband and a good friend who gives love and deserves it in return. I like you Quicko.
I have Kathy Bates on speed dial, mwa ha ha ha (in exaggeratedly evil voice)
"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya.
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That's why you have to HARNESS the greed for something else, not get rid of it. I didn't ever say get rid of it, I said you have to figure out an alternative outlet.
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Originally posted by pizmobeach:Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
It certainly doesn't offend me, but that was pretty much the point.
This thread is flawed (though the core idea is quite brilliant) in that it supposes we can trust that Kwicko is telling us the truth. Perhaps briar kwicko has already been offended and is lying about it?
It's possible PB, and I have considered it quite a bit over the last 24 hours. He is definitely upping-the-ante when speaking about me on other posts now, and making a big deal about my over indulgence in vices and how it directly correlates with my alleged closeted homosexuality.
We've obviously never seen eye to eye before, but I never expected this type of behavior from Kwicko before. I've said some pretty vile things here in this thread, but this was a "challenge" thread that he created. He was asking to be roasted. The fact that he has been making posts about how I enjoy trips to the glory hole in entirely separate threads seems completely devoid of class to me. If those remarks were made in here, I would understand it after what I've said, but if they were made in here, it would also prove that he was offended by my remarks on some level. Put in other non-related threads, he can simply let this one fall by the wayside as all RWED posts do, and nobody will remember how he was offended enough to lash out.
I guess it's much easier to take those offenses to other threads and use other secrets I've divulged about my own self such as my addictive tenancies against me and do his best to make me look even worse than I've already painted myself.
Sorry for offending you Kwicko. I didn't ask for your abuse, but you directly asked all of us for ours.....
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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:Quote:
Originally posted by pizmobeach:Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
It certainly doesn't offend me, but that was pretty much the point.
This thread is flawed (though the core idea is quite brilliant) in that it supposes we can trust that Kwicko is telling us the truth. Perhaps briar kwicko has already been offended and is lying about it?
It's possible PB, and I have considered it quite a bit over the last 24 hours. He is definitely upping-the-ante when speaking about me on other posts now, and making a big deal about my over indulgence in vices and how it directly correlates with my alleged closeted homosexuality.
We've obviously never seen eye to eye before, but I never expected this type of behavior from Kwicko before. I've said some pretty vile things here in this thread, but this was a "challenge" thread that he created. He was asking to be roasted. The fact that he has been making posts about how I enjoy trips to the glory hole in entirely separate threads seems completely devoid of class to me. If those remarks were made in here, I would understand it after what I've said, but if they were made in here, it would also prove that he was offended by my remarks on some level. Put in other non-related threads, he can simply let this one fall by the wayside as all RWED posts do, and nobody will remember how he was offended enough to lash out.
I guess it's much easier to take those offenses to other threads and use other secrets I've divulged about my own self such as my addictive tenancies against me and do his best to make me look even worse than I've already painted myself.
Sorry for offending you Kwicko. I didn't ask for your abuse, but you directly asked all of us for ours.....
You've got a good point, Jack; I was out of line. I apologize for that.
I do worry about you, though, and would like you to get some help, even if it's just shooting the shit with someone over beer and smokes (Hey, even AA doesn't cure addiction; they just replace addiction with another!)
"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero
"I've not watched the video either, or am incapable of intellectually dealing with the substance of this thread, so I'll instead act like a juvenile and claim victory..." - Rappy
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A $5 donation has been made in your name to the "Romney 2012" campaign, your "Romney is my God" bumper sticker will arrive soon.
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Originally posted by whozit:
A $5 donation has been made in your name to the "Romney 2012" campaign, your "Romney is my God" bumper sticker will arrive soon.
What's it say on the other side? Besides "Made in China", I mean.
"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero
"I've not watched the video either, or am incapable of intellectually dealing with the substance of this thread, so I'll instead act like a juvenile and claim victory..." - Rappy
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Originally posted by Kwicko:
You've got a good point, Jack; I was out of line. I apologize for that.
I do worry about you, though, and would like you to get some help, even if it's just shooting the shit with someone over beer and smokes (Hey, even AA doesn't cure addiction; they just replace addiction with another!)
Apology accepted Kwick,
We should all be friends here man. Ain't none of us without skeletons in our closet. I'm just at a disadvantage because I'll freely post my own as freely as I'll post my successes.
Don't worry about me. I'm not reaching out for help. I've put myself in a position where I hurt nobody but myself unless I choose to do otherwise, which I don't. I really don't believe I'm an alcoholic... and that's really not "alcholoic talk. I'm addicted to addictions, and many of them aren't even traditional. Everything I focus on is in excess.
When I'm a "boyfriend", I'm the best damn boyfriend a girl could ever ask for.... but then I just call or text a breakup when I'm bored.
I was forced to give up Sweet Mary Jane for the job search... and unfortunately, booze came in since I was still in a rut. I'm working on making my next addiction more healthy. I'd really feel alot better if my obsessivness was spent running and working out way too much like when I was 22.
It's all cyclical, I figure...
Anyways, if I offended you, or anyone else here, sorry about that.
Hope we're all still friends.
~6
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