Would NeoCons be at home on Serenity?
POSTED BY: chrisisall
UPDATED: Monday, November 10, 2008 23:38
VIEWED: 5479
PAGE 1 of 1
From another thread:
AURaptor:
That's what governments are for. To get in a man's way - Captain Mal Reynolds
You folks just remember what the good captain said, ok ?
Chrisisall:
Oh, but it hasn't been for getting in a man's way during the past administration, just the upcoming one, right?
I have no illusions; Malcolm Reynolds would have little use for me, he'd see me as dreamer- someone with unrealistic hopes for what government could do FOR it's peeps, but YOU...
He'd flat out view you as an Alliance toady, and you can't even see that. What do you think? If you could talk to Mal, you think he'd see you as some sort of independent? The way you spout off against freedom? The way you back up the neo-fascist curtailing of civil & international human rights? The way you rationalize every Republican-initiated military adventure?
Face it AU, you're a regular Hands Of Blue kinda guy. Until you wake up & smell what you shovel, the only person from the Firefly 'verse you could hold a lasting conversation with would be Jubal Early, and that would be mainly 'cause he likes to hear himself talk.
So please, don't quote Mal, that's like Castro quoting Kirk...
AURaptor:
And yet its funny, all your buddies on the Left seem to LOVE Castro. From Dan Rather, Jesse Jackson, Norman Mailer , Oliver Stone, Francis Ford Coppola, Stephen Speilberg.....Why is that ? Don't fret over it, i know you ain't got no answers anyways.
Naww...despite your ignorance, I'd be perfectly at home on ole Serenity.
Chrisisall:
Castro's a dictator, and as they go, not so bad of a guy, but a dictator nonetheless. I believe we should let the country be- get rid of sanctions.
Thing is, I think Castro's political beliefs, like yours, are flawed, which is why I make the comparison.
Quote:
Naww...despite your ignorance, I'd be perfectly at home on ole Serenity.
As long as no one else was on board.
Although, I could see Inara takin' pity on you, and talkin' to you a bit...Jayne might like that ya like to see bad guys killed...Simon would be cordial, as would Kaylee (though they'd be doin' the silent screwball sign to each other when ya weren't lookin'), River would think you were crazy, Mal & Wash would tolerate you as long as you was paying...
BOOK! Shepard Book would take the time to hear your woes! But as you started to repeat your rightwingnut self over & over, he'd be thinkin' how fuzzy the good book was on kneecaps, I'd wager.
Chrisisall
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Chris,
Be nice.
AU would be as welcome on Serenity as any of us.
So long as we hated the Alliance, and knew what it means to work for a living.
::: Editied for Chris's amusement...
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Yeah. Let Rapo start talking about how a government SHOULD be able to listen in on everyone as if they were all guilty... maybe even meddle with their brains a little...? and torture peeps (al la Niska) and Cap'n Mal might start looking longingly at the airlock...
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Let's party like its 1929.
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Quote:You're not allowed aboard her, if ya can't spell her name.
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Chris,
Be nice.
AU would be as welcome on Serrenity as any of us.
So long as we hated the Alliance, and knew what it means to work for a living.
Ihearditsaidisall
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Quote:You had to sneak a wink at BSG in here, eh?
Originally posted by SignyM:
Cap'n Mal might start looking longingly at the airlock...
(I hear they got the rights to the word 'airlock')
isall
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Quote:Dood, don't you know that "the Alliance" is the USA, according to Joss?
So long as we hated the Alliance
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Let's party like its 1929.
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Auraptor (he hasn't caught on to this thread yet):
Your lack of knowledge about Cuba and Castro is disturbing , yet not surprising. A great deal about Cuba has been white washed by the left wing media. But now's not the time for history lesson.
I'm sure most folks on Serenity would think me just fine. Kaylee would think I'm handsome, but clearly not in Simon's class. Jayne'd likely want to lift weights w/ me, Inara would appreciate the manners I show her, being raised proper and all Being more Mal like on the issue of religion, Book might steer clear on such issues, but I'd like to think we'd be on good terms otherwise. I'd be fascinated w/ Zoe and her life, her history, and her time in the military. Could learn a few tricks from her, if she'd oblige, that is. Cap might not see much in me, other than another useful set of hands, ready to do some heavy liftin', if need be. I'd likely be the focus of some of Wash's jokes, but I'd not get mad. We'd know it was just in good fun. You see, I'd be the only one on the ship who could talk dinosaurs w/ Wash, so we'd be cool.
Oh, and River ? She might very well kill me w/ her brain.
Other than that, I'd be right fine w/ the crew.
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Quote:Oh, and you're an authority on that as well. Okay.
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Your lack of knowledge about Cuba and Castro is disturbing , yet not surprising. A great deal about Cuba has been white washed by the left wing media. But now's not the time for history lesson.
Quote:Oh I am just peeing in my pants here....
Kaylee would think I'm handsome, but clearly not in Simon's class. Jayne'd likely want to lift weights w/ me, Inara would appreciate the manners I show her, being raised proper and all Being more Mal like on the issue of religion, Book might steer clear on such issues, but I'd like to think we'd be on good terms otherwise. I'd be fascinated w/ Zoe and her life, her history, and her time in the military. Could learn a few tricks from her, if she'd oblige, that is. Cap might not see much in me, other than another useful set of hands, ready to do some heavy liftin', if need be. I'd likely be the focus of some of Wash's jokes, but I'd not get mad. We'd know it was just in good fun. You see, I'd be the only one on the ship who could talk dinosaurs w/ Wash, so we'd be cool.
Hallenbeckisall
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Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Yeah. Let Rapo start talking about how a government SHOULD be able to listen in on everyone as if they were all guilty... maybe even meddle with their brains a little...? and torture peeps (al la Niska) and Cap'n Mal might start looking longingly at the airlock...
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Let's party like its 1929.
Only those aren't, nor have they ever been my positions. Not even remotely close.
And hell, Mal kicked Crow into the engine intake, so i doubt very much he'd have a problem w/ my points of view.
Chris, you're a devious one, to be sure.
It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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Quote:He was an immediate & future threat by his own words, and Mal regretted having to do it.
Originally posted by AURaptor:
And hell, Mal kicked Crow into the engine intake, so i doubt very much he'd have a problem w/ my points of view.
You would have done it with glee, eh?
Quote:Never claimed not to be.
Chris, you're a devious one, to be sure.
isall
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Yes he would. Because you're a pissant coward.
You're so afraid you'd grab peeps willy-nilly and toss them in to assuage your fears.
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Let's party like its 1929.
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Joss's political views are well known - not least that at the first ever public showing of Serenity, he apologised for Bush's re-election.
That said, Mal puts up with people providing they are useful.
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And Rapo would be useful as....?
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Let's party like its 1929.
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Chrissy, go put on a fresh pair, if ya got'em. Please!
As for your nonsensical charges, what more need be said ? The claims of neo fascist b.s. the Left spouts when vilifying our Gov't are laughable at best. It's the Libs who want to take control ( Maxine " if THIS Liberal ... " Waters ) of the Oil companies or bankrupt ( Barack "Cap n Trade " Obama ) the coal industry.
Talk about reckless!! No THANK YOU!
It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Talk about wreckless!!
You think we are without wreck? Wow, thanks man!
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Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Yes he would. Because you're a pissant coward.
You're so afraid you'd grab peeps willy-nilly and toss them in to assuage your fears.
---------------------------------
Let's party like its 1929.
Wouldn't miss a chance to toss you into the engine intake, I'll confess as much.
It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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"And Rapo would be useful as....?"
Food ?
***************************************************************
MMmmmmmm ... loooong piiiiig ....
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BWAHAHAHA!!
Also, I misread this
Quote:as ....
wreckless
weckless
I thought perhaps someone was doing their best Elmer Fudd.
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Let's party like its 1929.
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Anyway, so let me be the first to say I would NOT be welcome on Serenity unless I was a paying passenger.
I can cook, and I can diagnose (but they've already got a doctor on-board), and I can shoot a gun, but as a chemist I'm not sure how my talents would contribute to the crew's well-being!
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Let's party like its 1929.
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you could cook something up that would get everybody high...and also sell it on the black market?
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Mmm.... that's true. In my previous discussions with O2B I've thought about what would make the BEST currency. And, it isn't gold.
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Let's party like its 1929.
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Quote:They could use your knowledge of bio-toxins, I don't think that was Simon's area of expertise.
Originally posted by SignyM:
Anyway, so let me be the first to say I would NOT be welcome on Serenity unless I was a paying passenger.
Hey- no more Wash- I could take his place (I always come up Wash in the tests)!!
Dinosaurs...Zoe....yeah, I could do it!
AU could be a 'business associate' of Badger's.
Chrisisall
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I always come up as Zoe.
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Silence is consent.
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Quote:You sultry minx.
Originally posted by rue:
I always come up as Zoe.
Chrisisall
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In the interest of the unity which many of us hope the Obama administration will engender:
Shut Up, Chris!
"Keep the Shiny side up"
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Quote:
You sultry minx.
Well, HEY ! - I'm exactly like Zoe - just a little paler, shorter, older, dumpier, with grey hair and trifocals and out of shape ... so other than that ...
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Silence is consent.
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:looks down at ground, scuffs feet:
Well, I could be ... I could ...
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Silence is consent.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:
Shut Up, Chris!
..............
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Quote:Be vewey vewey quiet! I'm hunting WAPtors.
Originally posted by SignyM:
weckless
huhhuhhuhhuhhuhisall
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Heh heh heh...
Siggy, remember the 2hr Pilot ?
What, exactly were they tradin Patience ?
That was a nice twist, given I too thought that was originally bullion myself, but turned out to be something of far more immediate value.
I dunno what skillset Rap has, but remember they put up with Jayne, who isn't exactly the nicest sorta folk around you know... skills pay bills, it's just that simple.
Me now, imma gearhead and damn near mechanical savant, and underneath all that grouchy happen to be quite free-spirited, prolly wind up stealin Kaylee right out from under yon uptight doctor and workin the engine room with her - in between the lots of sex, of course.
-Frem
It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it
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Hello,
The very essence of this thread is divisive. Asking whether X would be at home on Serenity is akin to asking whether X is a 'real fan' of the show and shares the ideals of a 'real browncoat.'
Ask it about yourself, have fun contemplating your own usefulness to the crew and your synch with their ideals. But to ask it of someone else is just an excuse to put holes in them and knock them down, and that ain't shiny.
I don't think Mal would approve of other people debating who was worthy to be on his boat. I know I don't.
--Anthony
"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner
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Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Hello,
The very essence of this thread is divisive. Asking whether X would be at home on Serenity is akin to asking whether X is a 'real fan' of the show and shares the ideals of a 'real browncoat.'
Ask it about yourself, have fun contemplating your own usefulness to the crew and your synch with their ideals. But to ask it of someone else is just an excuse to put holes in them and knock them down, and that ain't shiny.
I don't think Mal would approve of other people debating who was worthy to be on his boat. I know I don't.
--Anthony
"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner
Well said! And , for what it's worth, all I started with was to suggest that Mal and I would likely see eye to eye on a great many things, as we both - work for ourselves, aren't keen of things religious, think less Gov't means better Gov't, etc... I never meant to imply that I'd be of any value to Serenity as a PART OF THE CREW, but instead might be lucky enough to share a bowl of mudders milk w/ the good Captain, from time to time.
It's Chrissy who took off an ran w/ the who " part of the crew " scenario. Blame him. Blame Chris.
It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:Quote:He was an immediate & future threat by his own words, and Mal regretted having to do it.
Originally posted by AURaptor:
And hell, Mal kicked Crow into the engine intake, so i doubt very much he'd have a problem w/ my points of view.
Mal might have regretted gucking up his fine engine w/ Niska's henchman, is all . Where do you get the fanciful idea that Mal was in the least remorseful for doing away w/ a threat to him or his crew ?
It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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Well, I've seen it all, now. A thread devoted to how dumb a member of the boards is, and how he wouldn't really fit in on Serenity. Gee, if he wouldn't fit in on Serenity, that must mean he's not a real Browncoat. And if he's not a real Browncoat, by God, he's got no business being here!
So thanks, everybody, for hating on AURaptor; this is exactly what I've come to hate about this community. I ain't for Browncoats anymore. It's only for Browncoats with certain political/social/metaphysical views. The rest can go hang.
________________________________________________________________________
- Grand High Poobah of the Mythical Land of Iowa, and Keeper of State Secrets
- Captain, FFF.net Grammar Police
- Vote JonnyQuest/Causal, for Benevolent Co-Dictator of Earth; together, toward a brighter tomorrow!
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Quote:
Originally posted by Causal:
Well, I've seen it all, now. A thread devoted to how dumb a member of the boards is, and how he wouldn't really fit in on Serenity. Gee, if he wouldn't fit in on Serenity, that must mean he's not a real Browncoat. And if he's not a real Browncoat, by God, he's got no business being here!
So thanks, everybody, for hating on AURaptor; this is exactly what I've come to hate about this community. I ain't for Browncoats anymore. It's only for Browncoats with certain political/social/metaphysical views. The rest can go hang.
________________________________________________________________________
Sadly, a large bunch have taken to the Hollywood notion that , you must be EXACTLY like them in order to be of any validity , what so ever. They speak of diversity, but only in so much as some agree with them, and others REALLY REALLY agree with them also. Those are their " extremes ", and all others, need not apply .
It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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Well, AURaptor ain't no friend of mine: he's a rabid Republican who looks on anyone who isn't wealthy and successful as lazy and a deadbeat. But if that's the measure to gauge unwelcomeness by, then half the population of the US would be unwelcome on Mal's boat. Perfection, near as I recall, was never a requirement even for Mal's crew itself. Like the man said: "If everything were right, we'd be in jail." That's the nature of the Serenity crew.
Also, in earnest, this thread is just a mite too ad hominem for me. Way I figure this, ain't a matter of whether or not he'd be welcome on the crew, as he's already on the crew. So, why we're still talking 'bout this?
--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam
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Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Sadly, a large bunch have taken to the Hollywood notion that , you must be EXACTLY like them in order to be of any validity , what so ever. They speak of diversity, but only in so much as some agree with them, and others REALLY REALLY agree with them also. Those are their " extremes ", and all others, need not apply .
Well, in the interest of fairness (or was that playing both sides?), being confrontational doesn't help.
________________________________________________________________________
- Grand High Poobah of the Mythical Land of Iowa, and Keeper of State Secrets
- Captain, FFF.net Grammar Police
- Vote JonnyQuest/Causal, for Benevolent Co-Dictator of Earth; together, toward a brighter tomorrow!
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Quote:
Perfection, near as I recall, was never a requirement even for Mal's crew itself. Like the man said: "If everything were right, we'd be in jail." That's the nature of the Serenity crew.
Well said, that.
We're all just folk here, all of us capable of occasionally over the top behavior, we're humans and therefore imperfect, just the way it is, and I wouldn't want it any other.
Mal showed the Operative what a perfect world looked like, and it weren't pretty, were it ?
Me, I take us as we are, the good, the bad, and the ugly, and family squabbles are a part of life, when it comes right down to it - in fact I recall quite a few folk gettin jacked up or clobbered in the show itself, did I not ?
It happens, we'll get over it.
-Frem
It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it
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I'm always tempted to claim the spirit of the show as solidly libertarian. But in all honesty it wasn't. That was Mal's point of view to be sure, but part of what made it such a great show is that we didn't see the characters as perfect. And the writing was mature enough to step beyond advocacy in any case.
Mal's moral sense, libertarian as it was, was one of inner conflict. Several times we saw him facing the contradictions of his own code. I for one think that, had the show continued, we'd have seen his views change considerably. The foreshadowing was all there. As fans, we hated the Alliance because we saw it primarily through Mal's eyes. But if you "watch between the lines" you see that his view wasn't entirely accurate.
Most of the Alliance officials we met could, without too much rationalizing, be seen as relatively good people just trying to do their jobs. The blue hands people, the Operative, and a few others were definitely "bad guys", but overall the Alliance was no more, or less, evil that the current day US.
SergeantX
"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock
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Quote:He goes on quoting Mal as if Mal would support his radical right views on things, and frankly, I'm sick of it. So, do I leave this board, or do I goof on the dude?
Originally posted by Causal:
Well, I've seen it all, now. A thread devoted to how dumb a member of the boards is, and how he wouldn't really fit in on Serenity.
Well, you see my decision.
Quote:Go simple on us why don't ya?
It ain't for Browncoats anymore. It's only for Browncoats with certain political/social/metaphysical views. The rest can go hang.
Would Neo-Nazi skinheads be welcome as Browncoats?
Members of NAMBLA?
Damn straight this is for Browncoats with certain political/social/metaphysical views. It encompases a wide range, but it has it's limits.
AURaptor demonstrates the exact kind of mindless lockstep mentality that Firefly does NOT embody.
I don't want AU to leave, I want him to expand his consciousness, or shut up about how he's this perfect objective observer, and that all the REST of us Browncoats are left-wing loonies ready to unknowingly destroy our country.
Get it?
See, AU is intelligent & educated- I see no excuse for his wanton rightwingnut ravings, other than that he is gripped by an ingrained prejudice against all things middle AND left of center.
As someone else said, AU is a member of this crew...sorta like family...and if ya can't occasionally beat up your little brother for doin' something STUPID, well then, what's family for?
Chrisisall
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Quote:Okay, I generalized the thread title.
Originally posted by asarian:
Also, in earnest, this thread is just a mite too ad hominem for me.
Chrisisall
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Hello,
Chris, I disagree with you.
Here is a man who disagrees with you on many issues. He thinks he is right, and he thinks you are wrong. He is stubborn in his opinions. Maybe he thinks he is perfect and anyone who doesn't agree with him is a madman.
Whatever.
You don't go equating him with Nazis and Child Molesters.
You don't go telling him he doesn't belong on this boat.
You don't go pretending that you had no choice but to create this thread or leave the boards.
If you want to get down to the nitty gritty, Serenity has been home to Jerks who don't get along and don't agree on much of anything. No one ever got exiled for having diametrically opposed opinions, or being a moron, or feeling superior. They only got banished from the dinner table for being rude to a fellow shipmate.
If this was that dinner table, there'd be darn few of us left.
We all belong on Serenity. It's not even a ship. It's a place you carry with you for as long as you believe. We don't even have to all believe in the same thing. We just have to believe in something. So says the good Book.
--Anthony
"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner
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Quote:I DIDN'T!!! I used the clearest examples of political beliefs that wouldn't be acceptable here, Causal seemed to indicate we should be embracing whatever came along.
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
You don't go equating him with Nazis and Child Molesters.
Quote:WHAT???
You don't go telling him he doesn't belong on this boat.
Reading is fundamental:
"As someone else said, AU is a member of this crew...sorta like family...and if ya can't occasionally beat up your little brother for doin' something STUPID, well then, what's family for?"
Quote:We are just full of high horse today...I didn't PRETEND anything, I stated that those were my reactions, and those were my reactions to have. If they were the choices I was going to make, how does that even concern you? Should I accuse you of pretending to have no other choice than to accuse me of pretending to have no other choice?
You don't go pretending that you had no choice but to create this thread or leave the boards.
Puh-leeze.
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Hello,
I had the choice to stay quiet or speak. Those really were the only two choices.
A lot of shivs get shoved into a lot of people here in the name of good fun, but I think a lot of them are neither good nor fun. You can tell when there's good natured ribbing going on, because when there is, everyone is laughing.
--Anthony
"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner
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Quote:And to that I say: fair enough.
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
I had the choice to stay quiet or speak. Those really were the only two choices.
Quote:This is not entirely one of those times. I want to DEMAND that a fellow Browncoat examine his beliefs, his motives, in the (possibly vain) hope that he see the needless extremism of his views. If AU likes Mal so much, then why does he not listen to him when he says:
A lot of shivs get shoved into a lot of people here in the name of good fun,
"I've given some thought to moving off the edge. Not an ideal location. Might get a place in the middle."?
(?)Chrisisall
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Hello,
Chris, I sympathize. I had the same crisis with Piratenews. I decided that his stupidities had to be challenged, that his vile racism had to be opposed. He is the only person on these boards who has ever upset me to the point that I railed unkindly (at least as far as I can recall) and lost control of my temper.
I don't think I had one iota of impact. Someone else, unseen by me, shared some quieter words with the man. That seems to have improved his disposition. Though I suspect the root of who he is cannot be cured, because it's who he is. There will always be a Nazi Jew lurking just around the corner of that man's mind, sacrificing virgins to Moloch in Bohemian Grove.
You can't demand that people change. In fact, the harder you push, the less likely they are to change. They are forced into a defensive posture where they entrench themselves. Once you're defending yourself, the logic of your arguments means less than winning does. It must be some side effect of the survival instinct, twisted by the computer of the human brain.
Speak gently. Argue well, but calmly. And when your opponent begins to change his mind, don't leap in his face and laugh at him. Or accuse him of being wishy-washy. Encourage him kindly, warmly, into the fold.
--Anthony
"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner
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Quote:Sometimes it's hard not to laugh, but yeah, I hear ya. For what it's worth, on subjects other than politics, he's a genuinely likable fellow.
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Speak gently. Argue well, but calmly. And when your opponent begins to change his mind, don't leap in his face and laugh at him. Or accuse him of being wishy-washy. Encourage him kindly, warmly, into the fold.
To me, politics is not about taking sides & winning, it's about how to get things done (or un-done, as the case may be). To that end, a staunch support of only ONE side defeats that purpose, IMO. If, for instance, Jayne is right, Kaylee is left, and Mal is center, that should show folks that we can use all facets of ways to keep her in the air, no?
Iknowit'sjustashowisall
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Well reasoned, Anthony, I was about to mention PN myself, given that as I can and have had quite rational discussions with the dude, comparatively.
I tend to be fairly verbally aggressive myself, but that's just how I am, and no one is immune to a little chops busting at my hands.
And, back to this bit...
Quote:
if ya can't occasionally beat up your little brother for doin' something STUPID, well then, what's family for?
ROFLMAO, sooo wrong yet sooo right...
*takes Chris off to the side, jacks a pillowcase over his head and beats the snot outta him*
-Frem
It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it
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Quote:*staggers into a Drunken-Boxing stance
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
*takes Chris off to the side, jacks a pillowcase over his head and beats the snot outta him*
then falls over*
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Quote:Wrong. No where near my
Originally posted by asarian:
Well, AURaptor ain't no friend of mine: he's a rabid Republican who looks on anyone who isn't wealthy and successful as lazy and a deadbeat.
philosophy. I have to wonder what it is you've been reading. Certainly not MY post.
Quote:
But if that's the measure to gauge unwelcomeness by, then half the population of the US would be unwelcome on Mal's boat. Perfection, near as I recall, was never a requirement even for Mal's crew itself. Like the man said: "If everything were right, we'd be in jail." That's the nature of the Serenity crew.
Also, in earnest, this thread is just a mite too ad hominem for me. Way I figure this, ain't a matter of whether or not he'd be welcome on the crew, as he's already on the crew. So, why we're still talking 'bout this?
It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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Quote:You MUST confront the reality that many here get that from what you post, you MUST realize that you must take SOME credit for that, wanted or not.
Originally posted by AURaptor:
I have to wonder what it is you've been reading.
Therapistisall
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Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:Quote:You MUST confront the reality that many here get that from what you post, you MUST realize that you must take SOME credit for that, wanted or not.
Originally posted by AURaptor:
I have to wonder what it is you've been reading.
Therapistisall
As Inigo Montoaya kept saying to Vizzini ...
I do not believe that word means what you think it means
POINT ? Y'all might be reading my post, but you sure as heck aren't getting my meaning.
It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager
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Quote:
Originally posted by rue:Quote:
You sultry minx.
Well, HEY ! - I'm exactly like Zoe - just a little paler, shorter, older, dumpier, with grey hair and trifocals and out of shape ... so other than that ...
Bless you, Rue - by that logic, I'm Mal!
It was like that when we got here!
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Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
:looks down at ground, scuffs feet:
Well, I could be ... I could ...
At the risk of sounding trite, Rue, cherish your inner Zoe...I'm taking my inner Mal out for pizza later...
It was like that when we got here!
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Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Hello,
Chris, I sympathize. I had the same crisis with Piratenews. I decided that his stupidities had to be challenged, that his vile racism had to be opposed. He is the only person on these boards who has ever upset me to the point that I railed unkindly (at least as far as I can recall) and lost control of my temper.
I don't think I had one iota of impact. Someone else, unseen by me, shared some quieter words with the man. That seems to have improved his disposition. Though I suspect the root of who he is cannot be cured, because it's who he is. There will always be a Nazi Jew lurking just around the corner of that man's mind, sacrificing virgins to Moloch in Bohemian Grove.
You can't demand that people change. In fact, the harder you push, the less likely they are to change. They are forced into a defensive posture where they entrench themselves. Once you're defending yourself, the logic of your arguments means less than winning does. It must be some side effect of the survival instinct, twisted by the computer of the human brain.
Speak gently. Argue well, but calmly. And when your opponent begins to change his mind, don't leap in his face and laugh at him. Or accuse him of being wishy-washy. Encourage him kindly, warmly, into the fold.
--Anthony
"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner
Anthony - why do you not take Book for your avatar? There are several voices in this forum I respect, but yours is always the most measured, reasoned, and - generally-speaking - forgiving. I aspire to the same, but my petty passions most always get the better of me.
It was like good examples were thin on the ground when we got here!
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Quote:
Originally posted by WASHnwear:
There are several voices in this forum I respect, but yours is always the most measured, reasoned, and - generally-speaking - forgiving.
Seconded.
The explosive Chrisisall
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Hello,
Thank you, gentlemen. That was very kind of you to say.
--Anthony
"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner
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Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:Quote:
Originally posted by WASHnwear:
There are several voices in this forum I respect, but yours is always the most measured, reasoned, and - generally-speaking - forgiving.
Seconded.
Thanks , Anthony...
What Wash-y and Chris said...
Thirded , even Amen-ded...Though not amended...
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Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
From another thread:
AURaptor:
That's what governments are for. To get in a man's way - Captain Mal Reynolds
Chrisisall:
Oh, but it hasn't been for getting in a man's way during the past administration, just the upcoming one, right?
I have no illusions; Malcolm Reynolds would have little use for me, he'd see me as dreamer- someone with unrealistic hopes for what government could do FOR it's peeps, but YOU...
He'd flat out view you as an Alliance toady, and you can't even see that. What do you think? If you could talk to Mal, you think he'd see you as some sort of independent? The way you spout off against freedom? The way you back up the neo-fascist curtailing of civil & international human rights? The way you rationalize every Republican-initiated military adventure?
Face it AU, you're a regular Hands Of Blue kinda guy. Until you wake up & smell what you shovel, the only person from the Firefly 'verse you could hold a lasting conversation with would be Jubal Early, and that would be mainly 'cause he likes to hear himself talk.
Would Mal see a Conservative as some some sort of Independent? Most certainly not! Inside of ten minutes Mal would understand that the kind of freedom a Conservative talks about has nothing to with freedom from oppression and persecution, or human rights, but that he's just talking about the freedom to accumulate as much wealth as he can, having to share it with as few people as possible. Mal, however, has folks with him who do for each other and ain't always looking for the advantage. Mal would see right through the 'freedom' speech!
What especially distinguishes Neo-Conservatism from 'regular' Conservatism, is that, in international affairs, the former prefer an interventionist approach that seeks to defend national interests. Hence, the 'rationalizing of every Republican-initiated military adventure.' They love to meddle. They absolutely love for their government to get in a man's way: just not their way.
I think a Neo-Conservatist would probably feel most at home on Osiris, or in the Ariel hospital, where everybody's making embarrassingly large stacks of money, and always smiling. Mal said: "Y'all got on this boat for different reasons, but y'all come to the same place." So, while I cannot fathom the reason why a Neo-Conservatist would want to be on Mal's boat, I respect the fact that he is.
--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam
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Nicely said, Asarian. Excellent post!
------------------------------
What sane person could live in this world and not be crazy?
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Quote:
Would Mal see a Conservative as some some sort of Independent? Most certainly not! Inside of ten minutes Mal would understand that the kind of freedom a Conservative talks about has nothing to with freedom from oppression and persecution, or human rights, but that he's just talking about the freedom to accumulate as much wealth as he can, having to share it with as few people as possible. Mal, however, has folks with him who do for each other and ain't always looking for the advantage. Mal would see right through the 'freedom' speech!
I completely disagree. Your distortions of what makes a 'conservative' are the root of the problem, imo. This issue of wealth, and " having to share it with as few people as possible " smacks as Obama's spreading the wealth comment. It's not Obama's $$ to spread around, is the thing. I think Mal would have some serious issues w/ the Alliance taking more than it's fair share of his earnings to give, as THEY saw fit, his money .
btw...... Chrissy? Why the title change ?
It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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Quote:Not 'Conservative', IMO, 'NEO-Conservative'. Conservatives, real ones, can be very cool, Neos cannnot.
Originally posted by AURaptor:
I completely disagree. Your distortions of what makes a 'conservative' are the root of the problem, imo.
Quote:'Spreading the wealth' is NOT just taking tax money and GIVING it to peeps, but whatever- I guess I'm resigned to hearing this same crap over & over for the next four years or so
This issue of wealth, and " having to share it with as few people as possible " smacks as Obama's spreading the wealth comment.
. Quote:Asarian said this thread was just a mite too ad hominem, and I realized that she(?) was correct.
btw...... Chrissy? Why the title change ?
The yawning Chrisisall
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Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Not 'Conservative', IMO, 'NEO-Conservative'. Conservatives, real ones, can be very cool, Neos cannnot.
You just called me cool!
Quote:
Quote:'Spreading the wealth' is NOT just taking tax money and GIVING it to peeps, but whatever- I guess I'm resigned to hearing this same crap over & over for the next four years or so
This issue of wealth, and " having to share it with as few people as possible " smacks as Obama's spreading the wealth comment.
Hey, the big O said it, don't blame me.
It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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Quote:It's not what he said, it's your predictably far right interpretation of it that irks me.
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Hey, the big O said it, don't blame me.
You call yourself a Conservative, yet your boy Bush conserved nothing.
He bloated government, pissed our money away on his pet project (Iraq), pissed away MORE money on Blackwater mercs to the tune of $1000 per day per man x 400,000, he squandered our international good name *typing cramps set in* I could go on, but...I won't.
Just that you seem more in line with the Neos...correct me if I am mistaken.
Chrisisall
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Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:Quote:It's not what he said, it's your predictably far right interpretation of it that irks me.
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Hey, the big O said it, don't blame me.
You call yourself a Conservative, yet your boy Bush conserved nothing.
He bloated government, pissed our money away on his pet project (Iraq), pissed away MORE money on Blackwater mercs to the tune of $1000 per day per man x 400,000, he squandered our international good name *typing cramps set in* I could go on, but...I won't.
Just that you seem more in line with the Neos...correct me if I am mistaken.
It's EXACTLY what he said, and you know it. Our good name ? Spare me, if you mean those who are beholden to that den of thieves at the U.N. The only way most of the world will like us is if we became a 3rd world back water hell hole, like they are.
No thank you!
It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager
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Well, i've been had my views referred to as " so far to the neo-christian Right" so i guess i'd quailify as a Neo-Con. Is it supposed to be an insult? i guess that depends on what side your on. Either way, if i had money i think i'd be welcome on Serenity. Would i Be at home?no. From what i remember of the show, they had a very indipendant(no pun intended)way of life, essentially pirates and theives, and...well, as much as i love the show, i tend to avoid untrustworthy types. i mean, if someone will steal from a bank, what makes you think that his " Code of Honor in a Den of theives" would hold to him not stealing from you when/if the situation called for it? and i'm only talking about mal, im not even going to get into jayne. so no, i think that i would pay my fare, visit with the crew, flirt with kaylee, and keep my room locked utill i got to my destination.which would be the planet full of sexy whores in training that inara was on in the movie!
also, this thread has devolved to the level of " my dad can beat up your dad." come on guys, this isn't like we're trekkies or anything. we're browncoats, we're better than that. ( not that i hate trek, it was my first love, but they get a little stupid wit the arguments sometimes)
Awesome as always,
Lester
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Quote:No more so than 'Nazi', I guess.
Originally posted by Lester:
i guess i'd quailify as a Neo-Con. Is it supposed to be an insult?
See, REAL NeoCons like the idea of flexing military muscle, if for no other reason than to remind others just exactly whose New World Order it is.
Sure you're one of those?
Chrisisall
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Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:Quote:No more so than 'Nazi', I guess.
Originally posted by Lester:
i guess i'd quailify as a Neo-Con. Is it supposed to be an insult?
See, REAL NeoCons like the idea of flexing military muscle, if for no other reason than to remind others just exactly whose New World Order it is.
Sure you're one of those?
I suppose the short answer about Neo Cons is this: Someone's going to rule the world, why shouldn't it be us ?
Or, put another way, who'd you want projecting most of the influence onto the world's affairs
1. Russia
2. China
3. Islamic Fascist
4. United States of America.
Beyond that, I got nothin.
It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager
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Quote:Again, the winner/loser mentality. Why can't we have equal say (except for your beloved Islamic Fascists, who are not a world power)?
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Or, put another way, who'd you want projecting most of the influence onto the world's affairs
1. Russia
2. China
3. Islamic Fascist
4. United States of America.
Anyway, do you not watch the show? The US & China will come out on top.
Chrisisall
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Quote:Hey wait! SPECTRE said the same thing!!!
Originally posted by AURaptor:
I suppose the short answer about Neo Cons is this: Someone's going to rule the world, why shouldn't it be us ?
00
isall
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Whacky fun. A real person on a real ship speaks of life onboard with neocons:
Ship of fools: Johann Hari sets sail with America's swashbuckling neocons
The Iraq war has been an amazing success, global warming is just a myth – and as for Guantanamo Bay, it's practically a holiday camp... The annual cruise organised by the 'National Review', mouthpiece of right-wing America, is a parallel universe populated by straight-talking, gun-toting, God-fearing Republicans.
By Johann Hari
Friday, 13 July 2007
I am standing waist-deep in the Pacific Ocean, both chilling and burning, indulging in the polite chit-chat beloved by vacationing Americans. A sweet elderly lady from Los Angeles is sitting on the rocks nearby, telling me dreamily about her son. "Is he your only child?" I ask. "Yes," she says. "Do you have a child back in England?" she asks. No, I say. Her face darkens. "You'd better start," she says. "The Muslims are breeding. Soon, they'll have the whole of Europe."
I am getting used to these moments – when gentle holiday geniality bleeds into... what? I lie on the beach with Hillary-Ann, a chatty, scatty 35-year-old Californian designer. As she explains the perils of Republican dating, my mind drifts, watching the gentle tide. When I hear her say, " Of course, we need to execute some of these people," I wake up. Who do we need to execute? She runs her fingers through the sand lazily. "A few of these prominent liberals who are trying to demoralise the country," she says. "Just take a couple of these anti-war people off to the gas chamber for treason to show, if you try to bring down America at a time of war, that's what you'll get." She squints at the sun and smiles. " Then things'll change."
I am travelling on a bright white cruise ship with two restaurants, five bars, a casino – and 500 readers of the National Review. Here, the Iraq war has been "an amazing success". Global warming is not happening. The solitary black person claims, "If the Ku Klux Klan supports equal rights, then God bless them." And I have nowhere to run.
From time to time, National Review – the bible of American conservatism – organises a cruise for its readers. I paid $1,200 to join them. The rules I imposed on myself were simple: If any of the conservative cruisers asked who I was, I answered honestly, telling them I was a journalist. Mostly, I just tried to blend in – and find out what American conservatives say when they think the rest of us aren't listening.
I. From sweet to suicide bomber
I arrive at the dockside in San Diego on Saturday afternoon and stare up at the Oosterdam, our home for the next seven days. Filipino boat hands are loading trunks into the hull and wealthy white folk are gliding onto its polished boards with pale sun parasols dangling off their arms.
The Reviewers have been told to gather for a cocktail reception on the Lido, near the very top of the ship. I arrive to find a tableau from Gone With the Wind, washed in a thousand shades of grey. Southern belles – aged and pinched – are flirting with old conservative warriors. The etiquette here is different from anything I have ever seen. It takes me 15 minutes to realise what is wrong with this scene. There are no big hugs, no warm kisses. This is a place of starchy handshakes. Men approach each other with stiffened spines, puffed-out chests and crunching handshakes. Women are greeted with a single kiss on the cheek. Anything more would be French.
I adjust and stiffly greet the first man I see. He is a judge, with the craggy self-important charm that slowly consumes any judge. He is from Canada, he declares (a little more apologetically), and is the founding president of "Canadians Against Suicide Bombing". Would there be many members of "Canadians for Suicide Bombing?" I ask. Dismayed, he suggests that yes, there would.
A bell rings somewhere, and we are all beckoned to dinner. We have been assigned random seats, which will change each night. We will, the publicity pack promises, each dine with at least one National Review speaker during o
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That was somewhat unsettling.
Chrisisall
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Ok, Rue.
We get it.
Bitter, angry, ect ect.
Obama won.
Let it go.
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Chris,IsAll
It was from 2007 but it was so unusual I kept it. Anyway, I thought it would be an interesting angle on the thread.
***************************************************************
Silence is consent.
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Quote:Definitely!
Originally posted by rue:
It was from 2007 but it was so unusual I kept it. Anyway, I thought it would be an interesting angle on the thread.
And I remember reading it back then...
Chrisisall
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Quote:Shut up, Wulf!!
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Ok, Rue.
We get it.
Bitter, angry, ect ect.
Obama won.
Let it go.
Chrisisall
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Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Again, the winner/loser mentality. Why can't we have equal say (except for your beloved Islamic Fascists, who are not a world power)?
Anyway, do you not watch the show? The US & China will come out on top.
Did Stalin allow for 'equal say' ? DId Mao ' ponder the voice of the people ? " . The mere fact that you even suggested an " equal say " nonsense w/ those 2 nations is a devastating display of your ignorance.
It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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"Shut up, Wulf!!"
HA!
NEVER!!!
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Quote:Yes. You're right of course. Stalin & Mao must be kept from working their mojo on todays' world stage....
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Did Stalin allow for 'equal say' ? DId Mao ' ponder the voice of the people ?
Chrisisall
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Quote:
Originally posted by asarian:
Would Mal see a Conservative as some some sort of Independent? Most certainly not! Inside of ten minutes Mal would understand that the kind of freedom a Conservative talks about...to accumulate as much wealth as he can, having to share it with as few people as possible.
Did you even watch the show? They were always after the big score.
And one could argue that "the crew" is his "share it with as few people as possible" mentality at work.
Every character on that ship was a conservative. It was the "better world" liberal Alliance types that were the problem. There's a reason why liberals are concentrated on Universities, in cities and in the American northeast and conservatives are out in what was the frontier of the American west.
"Would NeoCons be at home on Serenity?" That's a good question...can I sleep in Kaylee's bed? If so, move over Doc and count me in. Hmm...come to think of it Zoe's single now...
H
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
Every character on that ship was a conservative. It was the "better world" liberal Alliance types that were the problem. There's a reason why liberals are concentrated on Universities, in cities and in the American northeast and conservatives are out in what was the frontier of the American west.
I think a good case could be made for Inara and Simon very much holding to liberal values. The fact that the Alliance includes vast levels of corruption and fails to live up to standard doesn't negate those values held by characters. I would even go so far as to place Wash in that camp, too.
Kaylee strikes me as unpolitical. River hasn't voiced much to allow judging. Jayne, Zoe, Mal and Book (I think) strike me as very conservative.
That said, I think the key characteristic to living on Serenity would be "Are you willing to let someone else tell you what to do" and that someone would be Mal. Serenity isn't a democracy and everyday life would very much center around taking orders from The Captain. And he may bully you if he doesn't like you. If that's your taste, I'm sure everyone would be welcome.
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I thought the NeoCon was a big Sci-fi expo held every September in Idaho.
Sorry, I guess I got the wrong thread
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Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:Quote:Yes. You're right of course. Stalin & Mao must be kept from working their mojo on todays' world stage....
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Did Stalin allow for 'equal say' ? DId Mao ' ponder the voice of the people ?
You're such a boob.
It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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Quote:I can be- when pushed to itisall
Originally posted by AURaptor:
You're such a boob.
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