KENNEDY HAS A BRAIN TUMOR
POSTED BY: AURaptor
UPDATED: Saturday, June 14, 2008 05:36
VIEWED: 10557
PAGE 1 of 1
Posted: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 1:12 PM by Mark Murray
Filed Under: Congress
From NBC's Mark Murray
The breaking news from the AP: "Sen. Edward M. Kennedy say he has a malignant
brain tumor. Doctors for the Massachusetts Democrat say tests conducted after Kennedy suffered a seizure this weekend show a tumor in his left parietal lobe. His treatment will be decided after more tests but the usual course includes combinations of radiation and
chemotherapy."
*** UPDATE *** Here is the statement from from Dr. Lee Schwamm, vice chairman, Department of Neurology, Massachusetts General Hospital, and Dr. Larry Ronan, primary care physician, Massachusetts General Hospital: "Over the course of the last several days, we've done a series of tests on Senator Kennedy to determine the cause of his seizure. He has had no further seizures, remains in good overall condition, and is up and walking around the hospital. Some of the tests we had performed were inconclusive, particularly in light of the fact that the senator had severe narrowing of the left carotid artery and underwent surgery just 6 months ago. However, preliminary results from a biopsy of the brain identified the cause of the seizure as a malignant glioma in the left parietal lobe. The usual course of treatment includes combinations of various forms of radiation and chemotherapy. Decisions regarding the best course of treatment for Sen. Kennedy will be determined after further testing and analysis. Sen. Kennedy will remain at Massachusetts General Hospital for the next couple of days according to routine protocol. He remains in good spirits and full of energy."
* Thoughts and sympathies to the Kennedy family and hopes for a full recovery *
It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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Brain tumors are the most common cause of newly acquired seizure disorder in older adults.
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The tasteless snarky part of me wants to ask if that will affect his driving...
Too soon?
Anyway, I'm just kidding. My thoughts are with him and his family. He truly is the last of an era of ultra-liberal Democrats, and there likely won't be any more of his kind anytime soon.
Get well, Ted! Your country needs you, now more than ever!
Mike
"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions
I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock
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I just hope he can get the medical treatment he so desperately needs.
If the remove it I bet he wakes up a Republican. On General Hospital (the source for everything we really need to know about medicine) the brain tumer always causes a personality change. And I'd be willing to bet the next time we see him we'll all hear a little voice saying "the role of Ted Kennedy will now be played by..."
H
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Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
...preliminary results from a biopsy of the brain identified the cause of the seizure as a malignant glioma in the left parietal lobe.
"Damage to the left parietal lobe can result in what is called "Gerstmann's Syndrome." It includes right-left confusion, difficulty with writing (agraphia) and difficulty with mathematics (acalculia). It can also produce disorders of language (aphasia) and the inability to perceive objects normally (agnosia)."
Wonder how long this has been going on?
"Keep the Shiny side up"
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Quote:
Kwicko wrote:
Tuesday, May 20, 2008 08:40
Anyway, I'm just kidding. My thoughts are with him and his family. He truly is the last of an era of ultra-liberal Democrats, and there likely won't be any more of his kind anytime soon.
Last of the utlra Liberal Democrats ? You've GOT to be kidding ! There's the Jr Senator from Mass, the haughty John F. Kerry. Then there's Barack Obama, who rates as THE most Liberal Senator out of the entire Senate. Oh yeah, and then there's Hillary Clinton.... and don't get me started on the HOUSE Libs!!!
last of an era.....too gorram funny!
It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
I just hope he can get the medical treatment he so desperately needs.
If the remove it I bet he wakes up a Republican. On General Hospital (the source for everything we really need to know about medicine) the brain tumer always causes a personality change. And I'd be willing to bet the next time we see him we'll all hear a little voice saying "the role of Ted Kennedy will now be played by..."
H
LOL Hero. That's pretty good, even in light of the somber news. Another post I read mentioned that , w/ the various types of brain tumors, life expectancy can be any where from 1-5 yrs. I don't care who or how old you are, that's not news you want to hear. Hope they're catching it early and he gets the very best of care.
It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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"Gliomas
Gliomas can be astrocytomas, ependymomas or oligodendrogliomas. The different types have very different outlooks."
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It's really sad to hear. I haven't followed politics long enough or close enough to know a lot about Kennedy, but he can't be in a happy place right. I hope it's treatable.
And now I must be a horrible person and talk politics. Sorry, but Rap reminded me of some numbers that I found pretty interesting a while back...
Quote:A wide variety of liberal and conservative groups score and rate senators based on their voting records. The scores are 0 to 100: 0 is pure conservative, 100 is pure liberal.
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Then there's Barack Obama, who rates as THE most Liberal Senator out of the entire Senate.
As rated by liberal groups, the average score is:
Kennedy: 87 (ranked 29th of 102 senators on the table)
Clinton: 82 (38th)
Obama: 80 (42nd)
McCain: 9 (98th)
As rated by conservative groups:
Kennedy: 93 (17th)
Clinton: 91 (24th)
Obama: 89 (32nd)
McCain: 27 (63rd)
The groups and full results are shown here:
http://www.electoral-vote.com/evp2008/Senate/con_senator_ratings-2007.
html
http://www.electoral-vote.com/evp2008/Senate/lib_senator_ratings-2007.
html
The interesting thing is that the liberal groups have them *all* shifted toward conservative end, while the conservative groups see them all as more liberal. (Both sides are likely to see an enemy as more evil than they are?) McCain's voting record is extremely conservative according to the liberal's scoring rules.
On the other hand, Obama is less liberal than Clinton on both scales, and not extremely liberal on either. Even the conservative groups see 31 senators as more liberal than Obama - he's solidly in the middle of the Democratic pack.
Note also that Kennedy is not the most extreme liberal. That honor belongs to Christopher Dodd who scored 97 from the conservatives. The liberals had a 4 way tie: Ben Cardin, Russ Feingold, Bob Menendez, and Jack Reed all scored 96
OK. Back to real point of the thread. Sad news. :(
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hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left
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Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Last of the utlra Liberal Democrats ? You've GOT to be kidding... Then there's Barack Obama, who rates as THE most Liberal Senator out of the entire Senate.
Golly, gee. Rappy regurgitated a BS rightie talking point without bothering to check the facts.
Will wonders never cease....
"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."
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Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:
"Damage to the left parietal lobe can result in what is called "Gerstmann's Syndrome." It includes right-left confusion, difficulty with writing (agraphia) and difficulty with mathematics (acalculia). It can also produce disorders of language (aphasia) and the inability to perceive objects normally (agnosia)."
Hmmmm... Looking at that list of symptoms, I'm more worried about our President than I am about Ted Kennedy.
Let's see... Right-left confusion, check (right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing, as evidenced by his own demonstration of same)... difficulty with writing... Well, I'm not sure he actually even knows how to write, but he sure as hell has difficulty READING and comprehending... Difficulty with math, check (16 trillion dollar debt is NOT a healthy and balanced economy)... difficulty with language, check (as witnessed by Bush's ongoing war with... words)... Inability to perceive objects normally... Well, is Iraq considered an "object", or simply an "objective"?
Yup, looks like li'l Bushie has a tumor of his own!
Mike
"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions
I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
I just hope he can get the medical treatment he so desperately needs.
If the remove it I bet he wakes up a Republican. On General Hospital (the source for everything we really need to know about medicine) the brain tumer always causes a personality change. And I'd be willing to bet the next time we see him we'll all hear a little voice saying "the role of Ted Kennedy will now be played by..."
H
Trust me, he'll get better medical treatment than you or I could hope for...
As for waking up a Republican, the only way that happens is if they perform a "republicanectomy" on him, and remove his ethics, morals, and sense of humor while they're taking out the tumor.
Mike
"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions
I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock
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They were talking about him on The News Hour tonight. The said he's one of the few poeple left in the Senate that has friends on both sides of the aisle.
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Well, the dx is not a good one. I'm sure Bushies are secretly doing the happy dance.
THANKS for the rankings of who's the "most liberal". I was surprised to find anyone even close to Russ Feingold. Gonna get out my checkbook next time they run.
---------------------------------
Let's party like it's 1929.
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Anyone wanna bet that after being called on the "most liberal" thing, Rappy doesn't show in this thread again?
"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."
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I don't know - sometimes even after you prove him wrong he comes back and says the same wrong thing all over again - like your post never happened ...
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Anyway -
I'm sorry to find out about Kennedy's illness.
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Quote:
Last of the utlra Liberal Democrats ? You've GOT to be kidding !
last of an era.....too gorram funny!
Apparently I don't GOT to be... :)
Mal4Prez: Thanks for the handy-dandy figures. Those'll come in handy when it's time to start writing out campaign checks!
Mike
"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions
I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock
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Too bad about Kennedy. I have no love for the guy, but brain cancer isn't any way for anyone to go out.
As for Obama being most liberal ... "National Journal" did actually select him as the most liberal Senator in 2007. That's the story that the other poster was likely referring to. However, NJ's selection methodology is suspect. On the other other hand, according to the same folks at National Journal, the Junior Senator from Illinois had been trending more & more liberal since coming to the Senate in 2005. You can check out their info here:
http://nj.nationaljournal.com/voteratings/
I'd also like to point out that in 2005 Senator Obama was actually voted most liberal by the same liberal groups that "mal4prez" quoted. Here's that info:
http://www.electoral-vote.com/evp2008/Senate/senator_ratings-2005.html
I don't see info for 2006, though. Anyhow, it seems that the lib groups have him moving towards the center. Preparing for his Presidential run? hhmmmmm...and after such a short time in the Senate.
It's really hard to tell exactly how liberal he is though, since he's only been in the Senate for 3 years. That's not much of a record. He has missed a tremendous number of votes, too - as a result of his campaigning.
Well, enough of that...here's to hoping Kennedy comes out of it. One to five years, eh? hmmm...
Let's be Bad Guys.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
I just hope he can get the medical treatment he so desperately needs.
If the remove it I bet he wakes up a Republican.
H
So you are saying that people with brain damage vote Republican? Are you sure you're not Rue?
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fletch2:
So you are saying that people with brain damage vote Republican? Are you sure you're not Rue?
No, he's saying that Dems have "Dain Bramage" and that they need serious treatment in order to see the light and correct the error of their ways, lol.
I'd rather go hunting with VP Cheney than go for a ride with Sen. Kennedy. HAHAH! Saw that somewhere today, had to repeat it...c'mon, it's funny ... you know you all laughed a lil' bit. At least if Cheney decides to shoot you in the face it'll be a quick death ... drowning, on the other hand, is ... well, where does that get fun? LOL!
Let's be Bad Guys.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Last of the utlra Liberal Democrats ? You've GOT to be kidding... Then there's Barack Obama, who rates as THE most Liberal Senator out of the entire Senate.
Golly, gee. Rappy regurgitated a BS rightie talking point without bothering to check the facts.
Will wonders never cease....
."
Well, since Barack is so new to the Senate, you can gauge him on his views, or on what he's ACTUALLY voted on. If you go by the latter, there's far less to go by, so there's your discrepancy. Point being, there are still plenty of far Left politicians in D.C., and Kennedy is far from " the last of an era of Ultra Left " wingers.
It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
I just hope he can get the medical treatment he so desperately needs.
If the remove it I bet he wakes up a Republican. On General Hospital (the source for everything we really need to know about medicine) the brain tumer always causes a personality change. And I'd be willing to bet the next time we see him we'll all hear a little voice saying "the role of Ted Kennedy will now be played by..."
H
Trust me, he'll get better medical treatment than you or I could hope for...
As for waking up a Republican, the only way that happens is if they perform a "republicanectomy" on him, and remove his ethics, morals, and sense of humor while they're taking out the tumor.
Mike
As an appendectomy removes the appendix , an 'republicanectomy' would be removal of that which is or constitutes the republican in him. If that was done, then truly you'd be taking out his ethics, morals, sense of humor and love of country. I doubt Kennedy has been bothered by any of that for quite some time.
It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Hmmmm... Looking at that list of symptoms, I'm more worried about our President than I am about Ted Kennedy.
Let's see... Right-left confusion, check (right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing, as evidenced by his own demonstration of same)... difficulty with writing... Well, I'm not sure he actually even knows how to write, but he sure as hell has difficulty READING and comprehending... Difficulty with math, check (16 trillion dollar debt is NOT a healthy and balanced economy)... difficulty with language, check (as witnessed by Bush's ongoing war with... words)... Inability to perceive objects normally... Well, is Iraq considered an "object", or simply an "objective"?
Yup, looks like li'l Bushie has a tumor of his own!
What are you poor reople going to do after January when you don't have Bush to hate on any more?
"Keep the Shiny side up"
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(Obligatory Snark)
Gee, that explains a lot...
Seriously though, that sucks - I ain't no fan of the guy by any means, but I pay my debts, and Teddy has actually helped us push through some useful (as opposed to knee-jerk feelgood useless) child protective leglisation in spite of the fact that he was somewhat of a freaky boy himself in his youth.
Not to mention a brain tumor is a pretty damned awful way to go, watching Lyle Alzedo quickly deteriorate before he capped it was a definate solidifying factor in my position on death with dignity.
I'd not lay an ounce of blame if he chose that route, but I sure hope he's got another six months in him, if for no other reason than as a roadblock to the lunatics at the helm right now.
Give em the brick wall, Ted, sit down, shut up and let them wonder how much of your mind is still functional, instead of babbling like our idiot in chief revealing how little the coke and booze has left of his every day.
-Frem
It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it
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Quote:
What are you poor reople going to do after January when you don't have Bush to hate on any more?
Well, I assume AwwCrapper and "Hero" will still be around...
And when we don't have Bush to "hate on" any more (is that like not having Dick Nixon to kick around any more?), I'm sure some new right-wing jackass will step up to take his place.
Mike
"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions
I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock
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Quote:
As an appendectomy removes the appendix , an 'republicanectomy' would be removal of that which is or constitutes the republican in him. If that was done, then truly you'd be taking out his ethics, morals, sense of humor and love of country. I doubt Kennedy has been bothered by any of that for quite some time.
Take out the morals, ethics, sense of humor, and "love of country", and what you have left is a Republican.
And come on, seriously? You think only Republicans love their country? Is that why they're so dead-set on destroying it, brick by Constitutional brick? Next you'll be telling us that spying on and informing on your fellow Americans is the only way to be truly patriotic.
In 'Crapter's world, if you love something, turn it in. If it survives the torture, it's innocent; if it doesn't, it didn't love its country anyway...
Mike
"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions
I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock
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You forgot the most important phase of said procedure. Namely, the implantation of testicles.
Vilavon AKA Claude
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Quote:In the rectal Sphincteral orifice.
Originally posted by Vilavon:
You forgot the most important phase of said procedure. Namely, the implantation of testicles.
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.
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Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:Quote:In the rectal Sphincteral orifice.
Originally posted by Vilavon:
You forgot the most important phase of said procedure. Namely, the implantation of testicles.
LMAO!!!!!
Damn, where's the emoty guy rolling on the floor laughing? I can never find him when I need him!
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hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left
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Well, on that, one could ask Ted Haggard, Mike Foley or Barney Frank, I suspect quite a few congresscritters and religiosity folk know all ABOUT that procedure, given how often they try to perform it.
-F
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Well, on that, one could ask Ted Haggard, Mike Foley or Barney Frank, I suspect quite a few congresscritters and religiosity folk know all ABOUT that procedure, given how often they try to perform it.
-F
Yup, and how exactly DOES one get a name like "Oral Roberts", anyway?
Mike
"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions
I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock
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Quote:
I'd rather go hunting with VP Cheney than go for a ride with Sen. Kennedy.
Yeah, and I'd rather have my daughters intern for Clinton than hunt with Cheney. At least when Clinton shoots them in the face, they don't have to go to the hospital!
Mike
"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions
I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock
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Quote:
Well, since Barack is so new to the Senate, you can gauge him on his views, or on what he's ACTUALLY voted on. If you go by the latter, there's far less to go by, so there's your discrepancy. Point being, there are still plenty of far Left politicians in D.C., and Kennedy is far from " the last of an era of Ultra Left " wingers.
Oooooh, I wanna play! Let's see what happens when you apply that same logic to Bush... Okay, he's "new" to the Presidency, so if you gauge him on his views or the things he's ACTUALLY done, you get a very different picture. Let's see... spying on American citizens, listening in on their calls without cause or warrant, suspension of Habeus Corpus, wiping his ass with the Constitution, torturing of suspects, military tribunals instead of real court trials, protecting big corporations and military contractors from U.S. law, handing out no-bid contracts to his friends and family, dismantling any privacy rights, doing away with separation of church and state, questioning the patriotism of anyone who disagrees with him in the slightest... Yup, if you gauge him on his actions and accomplishments... HE'S A FASCIST!
Wow, that's fun. I like this game. Can't hardly wait to play with McCain and his record...
Mike
"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions
I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock
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Quote:
Originally posted by Vilavon:
You forgot the most important phase of said procedure. Namely, the implantation of testicles.
Vilavon AKA Claude
In the case of Republicans, aren't those usually taken orally? Seems Larry Craig said something to that effect...
Mike
"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions
I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock
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Quote:
Yeah, and I'd rather have my daughters intern for Clinton than hunt with Cheney. At least when Clinton shoots them in the face, they don't have to go to the hospital!
KWICKO, you fill the "Cock-Sucking Halfwit" position better than you daughters ever could.
Tell that gash of a daughter that I want my boots back, will ya? I left 'em under her bed.
bah-dumm-bump ... I'll be here all week.
_________________________________________________
Let's be Bad Guys.
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What's the matter Mal4? No more comments along the "Obama is the most liberal Senator" line? I find it interesting that when I use your own references against the rest of you folks, that aspect of this thread ends ... hmmmm ...
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Let's be Bad Guys.
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The Poster formerly known as HavocMan...
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.
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Quote:
Originally posted by ELNQSDFL:Quote:
Yeah, and I'd rather have my daughters intern for Clinton than hunt with Cheney. At least when Clinton shoots them in the face, they don't have to go to the hospital!
KWICKO, you fill the "Cock-Sucking Halfwit" position better than you daughters ever could.
Tell that gash of a daughter that I want my boots back, will ya? I left 'em under her bed.
bah-dumm-bump ... I'll be here all week.
_________________________________________________
Let's be Bad Guys.
Actually, I'm surprised you even know how to spell halfwit... You get a D-minus anyway - you misspelled "your", you fucking imbecillic piece of afterbirth. As for me "cock-sucking"... only in your dreams, Nellie. I know you right-wingers can only get it up when a guy's sucking it, but my gate doesn't swing that way.
And why are you looking for your boots? Is your welfare check under them? Or did you finally land that dream ditch-digging job you were interviewing for?
Now go back to licking your mom's asshole 'til it bleeds, leech.
Mike
"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions
I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock
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Quote:Well, your strong logical argument and solid evidence shook me so hard that I've spent the past 24 hours rolled up in tiny ball in my basement, shivering in terror and lashing myself with a horsewhip while chanting: "George Bush is my daddy and Obama is the DEVIL!"
Originally posted by ELNQSDFL:
What's the matter Mal4? No more comments along the "Obama is the most liberal Senator" line? I find it interesting that when I use your own references against the rest of you folks, that aspect of this thread ends ... hmmmm ...
Um... actually, after making my post yesterday I've been quite busy. 5 hours of rehearsal, sleep, a job, and some much more interesting email chat with friends who are friendly. Call me crazy, I have other priorities.
Anyway....
Surely, the most complete way to rate a senator is to look at his or her full voting record. I didn't know that information was on that site, or I would have included it. And you could have made yourself useful by showing the information here, including 2006, which I still can't find (haven't tried hard - busy), so we could all learn something other than that ELNQSDFL is snarky. But please, go on and focus on self-righteous tongue wagging if it tickles your tickleplace. I would by no means suspend any pleasure of yours. (Two Austen quotes in one day - score!)
OK, the 2005 numbers are definitely interesting. Obama was clearly more liberal then, and he's come more center as elections near. But I'm not going to judge him based solely on that. (Or based solely on my intimate personal knowledge of him, something Rap seems to have.) I'd have to see his entire voting record.
My point in my earlier post is, however, unchanged. Obama is not the most liberal person in the senate. Average out 2005 and 2007, you get him at maybe 16th. And perhaps the reason he's not so liberal in 2007 is his run for office - doesn't change the fact that he voted as he voted, and he does not have the most liberal voting record.
But here's a more interesting thing to ponder: ELNQSDFL is chatting quite comfortably and agressively for someone who signed up for this site just last night. So... a newbie not into making friends? Or did one of our lovely type As gave himself a new ID to attack from?
Just pondering, cause it tickles my own tickleplace.
Edit: Citizen, you think Havocman? OK, I can see that. I was guessing Rap, since he's been taking so much heat lately. Well deserved heat, but still...
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hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left
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awwww ... look everyone, they're trying to respond ... isn't it cute when they try that?
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Let's be Bad Guys.
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UUHHhhmmm - being talked about is not the same as being talked to. You see, here I am talking to you. If I were to then address a part of my post to someone else discussing who is behind the stinky sock you are using as a disguise then I would be talking about you. And talking about you is not a response.
Just so you understand.
***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."
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Quote:
Originally posted by ELNQSDFL:
awwww ... look everyone, they're trying to respond ... isn't it cute when they try that?
_________________________________________________
Let's be Bad Guys.
Awww... That IS cute, but is that the best you could do? You're even more of a mental midget than I figured you for - and that's saying something!
Adios, leech.
Mike
"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions
I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock
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Quote:
I was guessing Rap, since he's been taking so much heat lately.
Quick test to see if it's 'Crapter:
What's the plural form of the word "terrorist"?
Mike
"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions
I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock
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It's not AURaptor, Rap is eloquent, insightful, poised and funny ..... err by comparison.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:Quote:
As an appendectomy removes the appendix , an 'republicanectomy' would be removal of that which is or constitutes the republican in him. If that was done, then truly you'd be taking out his ethics, morals, sense of humor and love of country. I doubt Kennedy has been bothered by any of that for quite some time.
Take out the morals, ethics, sense of humor, and "love of country", and what you have left is a Republican.
And come on, seriously? You think only Republicans love their country? Is that why they're so dead-set on destroying it, brick by Constitutional brick? Next you'll be telling us that spying on and informing on your fellow Americans is the only way to be truly patriotic.
In 'Crapter's world, if you love something, turn it in. If it survives the torture, it's innocent; if it doesn't, it didn't love its country anyway...
Mike
Yeah, I saw this comin, especially from the likes of you, DICKo.
Here's how it is. Teddy was all a bluster on how bad Iraq was when Clinton was in office. Hell, even in the fall before the Iraq war - "We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction." -- Ted Kennedy, September 27, 2002 , we see his stated position per Iraq. Then, after the war started, Ted changes his tune, calling the Iraq war " a fraud . . . cooked up in Texas. " Why ? Politics. That's why. ( And yes, i know Ted didn't vote for military action,but his buddy Kerry did ) Still, Ted Kennedy saw that there were no Indiana Jones type ware houses full of WMD, so , in order to save face, and to play his cards right w/ voters, he falsely claims the intel they got was incomplete, or 'cherry picked', when that's absolutely NOT the case, and Teddy KNOWS its not the case. Ted and many of his cohorts on the Left change their positon on Iraq for purely politics sake, and to take a stand to be against anything that President Bush is for.
And when anyone, be they Senator or citizen, goes w/ Party over Country, that , in my eyes, is proof enough that you have more love for your party than you do for country.
It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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Wow - "citithen" is smart, hahaha ... mind like a steel trap, eh? Maybe you should get a job helping Senator Obama with his "57 state" election campaign, Mr. Wizard.
Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
UUHHhhmmm - being talked about is not the same as being talked to. You see, here I am talking to you. If I were to then address a part of my post to someone else discussing who is behind the stinky sock you are using as a disguise then I would be talking about you. And talking about you is not a response.
Just so you understand.
What disguise? The avatar is the same. As is the sig line. If I was trying to hide my identity, I'd change that stuff, no? Sheesh. You're clearly a thinking man - use your head a lil'.
Something happened to my HAVOCMAN account - wouldn't accept my login info for some reason. When I prompted the system to send my password to my email account, I got a message stating that I was not a member here at FF.net. I then tried to contact the admins here - no luck there, either. So, I re-registered.
KWICKO - hmmmmm, looks like someone can dish it out, but gets really bent when it gets thrown back. Yeahhh...I missed typing a letter. I'm no typist - big hands & fingers. Your daughter dig's em though. By the way, I'm not looking for my boots - I know exactly where they are. They are under you're daughter's bed, man. I left them there while spreading my evil seed, lol. I believe I stated that I left them there in my earlier post. Do you have a reading comprehension problem? Too bad, that. As for the Mom-licking ... I think I'll stick with your Mom's balloon knot - she really digs it when I...well, nevermind.
Mal4 - I know how you feel about spending time elsewhere on the 'net. Hey - ya know what? You folks should all swing by "LIGHTFIGHTER.net", "PREFESSIONALSOLDIERS.com" or "SOCNET.com" - we'd love to have you all.
Mal4, I actually agree with you about Senator Obama. The guy is well spoken and intelligent, but we really don't have much to go on. He certainly IS NOT the most liberal Senator. I too am wondering where the info for 2006 is.
Fire away - I can take it. After all folks, it's the internet, not the octagon...and I've got Kevlar.
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Let's be Bad Guys.
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Quote:I'm busy with other projects at the moment.
Originally posted by ELNQSDFL:
Wow - "citithen" is smart, hahaha ... mind like a steel trap, eh? Maybe you should get a job helping Senator Obama with his "57 state" election campaign, Mr. Wizard.
No Mr President, the crayoning goes inside the lines...
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Quote:What about 'rich friends'?
Originally posted by AURaptor:
And when anyone, be they Senator or citizen, goes w/ Party over Country, that , in my eyes, is proof enough that you have more love for your party than you do for country.
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.
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Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:Quote:What about 'rich friends'?
Originally posted by AURaptor:
And when anyone, be they Senator or citizen, goes w/ Party over Country, that , in my eyes, is proof enough that you have more love for your party than you do for country.
Like George Soros ?
j/k Seriously, you lost me on this one. Care to elaborate ?
It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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Quote:I mean, if party allegiance over allegiance to ones country is treasonous, then what about harming ones country, or at least putting the interests of one's rich friends, above that of the general populace?
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Like George Soros ?
j/k Seriously, you lost me on this one. Care to elaborate ?
George Bush inherited a Government with an annual surplus, instigated tax cuts, that largely helped the rich and his campaign promoters, and when the US economy faltered, and the Government went into deficit, he carried on with the same plan, unchanged save for packaging it as economic and job stimulus.
But my point is wider than that. Republican Politicians are forever saying Democrats are anti-American, and don't have their countries interests at heart. But as far as I can see your average Republican politician is every bit as self serving as any other, but they seem to be a lot quicker to call the kettle black, eh.
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.
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Quote:.. rich and middle class, who had been paying too much ..
Originally posted by citizen:
I mean, if party allegiance over allegiance to ones country is treasonous, then what about harming ones country, or at least putting the interests of one's rich friends, above that of the general populace?
George Bush inherited a Government with an annual surplus, instigated tax cuts, that largely helped the rich
Quote:
and his campaign promoters, and when the US economy faltered, and the Government went into deficit, he carried on with the same plan, unchanged save for packaging it as economic and job stimulus.
The 2001 recession began LONG before any of Bush's economic polices took place. Bush's tax cuts stimulated the economy and did create positive growth for virtually his entire 2 terms as President.
Quote:
But my point is wider than that. Republican Politicians are forever saying Democrats are anti-American, and don't have their countries interests at heart. But as far as I can see your average Republican politician is every bit as self serving as any other, but they seem to be a lot quicker to call the kettle black, eh.
A screaming AlGore (D) , accusing Bush of " play(ing) on our fears! " when no facts what so ever suggest that in the least - Dick Durbin (D) equating our troops to NAZIS and the Khmer Rouge at Gitmo, before having even gone down to SEE for himself - Jack Murtha ( D ) calling a group of Marines cold blooded killers, before they had even been CHARGED of any crimes in Haditha,( I think most, if not all Marines, have been exonerated ), etc....
No, Republicans politicians aren't accusing their 'friends' on the opposite aisle of being anti-American, they don't have the backbone to do anything like that, but Democrats do so none the less by their very own actions.
The claim that the GOP went to war so their rich buddies could line their pockets is vastly over blown and has never been substantiated. If military action does break out, there's not a long list of companies from which to choose from, and Congress doesn't choose contracts depending which party is in power. Democrats are every bit as likely to 'benefit' from war as are Republicans, this isn't a case where the outcomes is determined by who is in power. Boeing, located in heavily Democratic state of Washington, benefits greatly from military contracts. It would be erroneous to assume that since Boeing is situated in a Democratic state that the Dems favor the military. Same goes for the GOP. This isn't a case where one can judge outcome with intent.
It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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Quote:Wow. He created a 2.5% average growth rate, which has not been seen since... hmmm, Clinton's was 3.6%... Daddy Bush's was 2.8%... Reagan's was 4.2%... huh, guess I'll have to go back farther in history to find someone as BAD as Bush (43)!
The 2001 recession began LONG before any of Bush's economic polices took place. Bush's tax cuts stimulated the economy and did create positive growth for virtually his entire 2 terms as President.
AND he only needed to bankrupt the nation, lean on a complicit Federal Reserve for low interest rates, and sink the USA dollar in order to achieve it! Wow. I'm impressed.
'Crapter, you really should stop playing with numbers. They're a danger to you!
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Let's party like it's 1929.
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Quote:
.. rich and middle class, who had been paying too much ..
Odd, if you cut taxes for the rich and the middle class, and the lower class don't pay taxes anyway, AND you increase spending... well, how the hell are you going to pay for it all?
In other words, if I make $50,000 a year, and I want a $500,000 Ferrari, can't I just pay it off over the next seven hundred years or so?
Wasn't this the party that used to claim to be "fiscally responsible"? How is spending so much money that your great-great-grandchildren are still going to be paying on the interest fiscally responsible?
It's not that I'm against lower taxes; I'm not. Frankly, I'd LOVE to have that 30% of my income back. What I'm against is this enormous growth in spending WHILE LOWERING TAXES, while pretending that it's money that we're never going to have to pay back. THAT is the problem I have with Bush's economic policies. They're not sound economics, and they're not sound policies. His daddy referred to it as "voodoo economics" when Reagan proposed it, and he was right.
Think about it. The Bush way of doing things is this: If we spend more, we'll MAKE more. So by that rationale, the only thing keeping me from being a millionaire is the fact that I haven't spent enough money, bought enough crap, or dug myself deep enough into debt. Prosperity is just a couple of billion dollars away! Is that what "the American Dream" is nowadays? Is that what you want it to be, what you want to teach your children?
Just curious...
Mike
"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions
I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock
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Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:Quote:Wow. He created a 2.5% average growth rate, which has not been seen since... hmmm, Clinton's was 3.6%... Daddy Bush's was 2.8%... Reagan's was 4.2%... huh, guess I'll have to go back farther in history to find someone as BAD as Bush (43)!
The 2001 recession began LONG before any of Bush's economic polices took place. Bush's tax cuts stimulated the economy and did create positive growth for virtually his entire 2 terms as President.
AND he only needed to bankrupt the nation, lean on a complicit Federal Reserve for low interest rates, and sink the USA dollar in order to achieve it! Wow. I'm impressed.
raptor, you really should stop playing with numbers. They're a danger to you!
Not me whose playing w/ the numbers. I'm just dealin in the facts. Never said W didn't expand Gov't or raise the debt, now did I ? Nope. But the economy did grow after the recession that W inherited. Grew every quarter since his tax cuts went into effect.
It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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Ahh, the obligatory gay bashing begins. Not concerned about political correctness when it doesn't serve your ends?
Vilavon AKA Claude
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Quote:
KWICKO - hmmmmm, looks like someone can dish it out, but gets really bent when it gets thrown back.
Really? Let's look at it in chronological order...
You made a "funny" about Cheney & Kennedy. I responded with my own quip about Cheney & "Slippery Bill" Clinton. You went utterly batshit ballistic, referring to me as a - and I quote - "Cock-sucking halfwit". Since you decided to take the low road, I made a conscious decision to meet you down there and responded in language I thought just maybe you could understand. So I'M the one who got really bent? Who blew up and went personal in their attack? You did. I simply responded in kind.
Hell, I'm not bent about anything. I'm having fun with you. You think you offended me with your talk about my daughter? That IS funny - especially considering that I don't even have kids! Those "daughters" (and it WAS plural, but you're too fucking stupid to even notice that. Reading comprehension problem, fucktard?) were hypothetical, like your hunting trip and joyride with Cheney and Kennedy. You were stating that IF YOU HAD TO CHOOSE, you'd rather one than the other. I said the same thing - If I had daughters, and I had to choose, I'd rather Clinton shot 'em in the face than Cheney. Last I checked, Cheney's buddy hadn't turned his traumatic experience into a paid speaking tour; Monica has.
But anyway, thanks for playing. See ya in the funny papers!
Mike
"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions
I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock
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Quote:And the economy grew after the recession that Bill Clinton inherited. And when Bill Clinton left office, we had a surplus not a deficit. Your 'facts' are very narrowly selected. It's like looking at 10 pixels of a 2MB picture: what's the point?
But the economy did grow after the recession that W inherited. Grew every quarter since his tax cuts went into effect.
---------------------------------
Let's party like it's 1929.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Vilavon:
Ahh, the obligatory gay bashing begins. Not concerned about political correctness when it doesn't serve your ends?
Vilavon AKA Claude
Claude: My sincere apologies for any gay-bashing I was a part of. It was certainly not intended in that spirit; my aim is to bash not gays, but the hypocrites who ARE gay, but will vote at every turn against gay rights and their own interests. And it turns out they're generally a repressed, Republican bunch.
Again, sorry 'bout that. I've got no problem at all with gay folk. Anyone who can find someone to love and hold onto in this crazy damn world... more power to 'em.
Mike
"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions
I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock
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Quote:Irrelevant. George Bush took on huge government expenditure, and cut Government revenue. If you're planing on cutting taxes, you cut back on spending, it doesn't take a two year old to run the math, the math that apparently the leader of the free world couldn't manage. The real depressing part is that if a Democrat wins this coming election, they will have to increase taxes. Lets get real. The US government is, I believe, currently the biggest debtor in the world, it's currently running a huge deficit pushing up that debt annually. And when this hypothetical Democrat puts up taxes, Republicans are going to say "see, tax and spend democrats!", when the only reason for putting up those taxes in the first place, is the fiscal irresponsibility of the preceding Republican.
Originally posted by AURaptor:
.. rich and middle class, who had been paying too much ..
You can't have your cake and eat it, at least not forever. You can't spend money you haven't got forever either, because eventually the credit runs out. George Bush has been spending big on credit, and made no provision for paying it all off. As a friend remarked, he's like that kid that stole his dad's credit card, and spent all that money. Only difference is he's going to leave the White House scot free and the American people are going to have to pick up the tab.
Quote:It's all borrowed money AU. It's a bubble. The recession never ended. The Dollar has been on the rebound every day since 2003. Economies can still grow during a recession, they're just not growing as much, but either way the growth in this case is more like an illusion. It's like funding a lavish lifestyle with a minimum wage job and a credit card. It's all on credit, and one day that credit runs out and your in a worse position than you started off in. And you know what, America's credit is near used up. Sure, one way to look at it is too say "we were doing really well there for a time, I got a Ferrari!"
The 2001 recession began LONG before any of Bush's economic polices took place. Bush's tax cuts stimulated the economy and did create positive growth for virtually his entire 2 terms as President.
Another would be to say you brushed the critter under the rug hoping someone else would deal with it, and it's now coming back as a monster. Luckily for George it seems it's just about the right time for someone else to come along and deal with it...
Quote:No facts? Pulling one example out, did George Bush not raise the spectre of Weapons of Mass Destruction and their imminent use in order to legitimise the war in Iraq? I'm pretty sure he did. Even if there were WMDs in Iraq (I think we can put it to bed by now that there wasn't) he was most certainly playing on peoples fears. The whole War on Terror thing, whether you agree with the measures or not, it's lynch pin, for some quite unsavoury methods, is the fear of the terrorist. Absolutely there's evidence that George Bush has been playing on peoples fears.
A screaming AlGore (D) , accusing Bush of " play(ing) on our fears! " when no facts what so ever suggest that in the least
Quote:We were talking about what Democrats have said about Republicans, this is rather out of place.
Dick Durbin (D) equating our troops to NAZIS and the Khmer Rouge at Gitmo, before having even gone down to SEE for himself - Jack Murtha ( D ) calling a group of Marines cold blooded killers, before they had even been CHARGED of any crimes in Haditha,( I think most, if not all Marines, have been exonerated ), etc....
Quote:You've not shown that Democrats are anti-American, you've not shown that Republicans are All-American Hero's, you've not shown, even that which you set out too, Democrats calling Republicans anti-American. And even if what you p
No, Republicans politicians aren't accusing their 'friends' on the opposite aisle of being anti-American, they don't have the backbone to do anything like that, but Democrats do so none the less by their very own actions.
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Citizen: Are you an American citizen? If not, too bad - you're a better one than a lot of the ones we've got around here ('Crapter, Hero, Finn, Havoc...)
And don't you know that it's different when it's McCain's guy who's spewing the hatred? Just ask any Republican - "When YOUR guy's friend does it, it's because you hat America and love terrorists; when OUR guy's pastor does it, it's because he simply misspoke. Don't you understand? It's DIFFERENT!"
So Obama waiting so long to distance himself from Wright proves that Obama secretly agrees with Wright's views. On the other hand, McCain's actively seeking out Hagee's endorsement in no way shows any approval of his radical views.
Some of those views, which Hagee is still spewing to this day, and which McCain still hasn't done a thing to disavow:
- Hitler's rise to power in Europe was a good thing, because it allowed the creation of Israel so that the Book of Revelation could unfold as intended. (Texas Senator John Cornyn was on stage with him for this one, and likewise has said nothing to distance himself from this viewpoint)
- The Catholic Church is the "great whore of the world". That should come as a great comfort to the Hispanic voters, without whom McCain is dead in the water.
- Katrina happened because New Orleans deserved it, because there was a plan to hold a Gay Pride parade in the city.
But, y'know... it's DIFFFERENT when he says it...
It always is, right?
Mike
"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions
I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock
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Do you even try to stay topical anymore? Or is every new thread just a new opportunity for you to attack certain Posters?
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Quote:
Some of those views, which Hagee is still spewing to this day, and which McCain still hasn't done a thing to disavow:
- Hitler's rise to power in Europe was a good thing, because it allowed the creation of Israel so that the Book of Revelation could unfold as intended. (Texas Senator John Cornyn was on stage with him for this one, and likewise has said nothing to distance himself from this viewpoint)
- The Catholic Church is the "great whore of the world". That should come as a great comfort to the Hispanic voters, without whom McCain is dead in the water.
- Katrina happened because New Orleans deserved it, because there was a plan to hold a Gay Pride parade in the city.
But, y'know... it's DIFFFERENT when he says it...
And, no sooner than I wrote this, McCain disavowed Hagee and rejected his endorsement. Thank you for that, Senator.
Mike
"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions
I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock
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20 + yrs is anything but a "tenuous" relationship, citizen. C'mon now, stop the spinning. You'll get dizzy in no time at that rate. And Wright's comments are worse than you think, but you don't even want to acknowledge that anyways.
The majority of the U.S. media is utterly beholden to the Left wing, and only FOX comes close to getting things right (accurate)
Hagee and Parsley ? Irrelevant, as you are fond of saying.
Bush never said Iraq was an imminent threat, but that we should act BEFORE it becomes one. I'm absolutely sure of this. I think it's undeniable there WERE WMD in Iraq, but they were spirited away to Syria before we got there. And even if not, Saddam planned on reconstituting his WMD program, once the U.N. was out of his hair, so it's clear, he wasn't going to play by the rules.
There's no evidence was playing on anyone's fears. He was acting in a prudent, responsible manner.
Actually, the Gore, Durbin, Murtha points were to show them, Democrats, being un-American. I proved that point rather conclusively, thank you.
Bush said you're either with us, AMERICANS, or you're with the terrorist, those who attacked us on 9/11. I still agree w/ that statement.
If you're referring to Halliburton, then Clinton is their buddy too. He used them , in no bid contracts, as often as Bush. It's a moot point to claim Bush started this war so Halliburton could reap some sort of mega windfall fortune. As is the case w/ the military contracts, the outcome does not automatically condemn those companies who are best capable to take on the jobs. Sorry, such conspiracy claims simply don't hold water.
It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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Quote:
Originally posted by BigDamnNobody:
Do you even try to stay topical anymore? Or is every new thread just a new opportunity for you to attack certain Posters?
'Rap, I think he's callin' you out...
Mike
"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions
I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:Quote:
Originally posted by BigDamnNobody:
Do you even try to stay topical anymore? Or is every new thread just a new opportunity for you to attack certain Posters?
'Rap, I think he's callin' you out...
Mike
Nope. Not me. I've stayed on topic and avoided attacking anyone through this entire thread.
But thanks for thinkin' of me.... I suppose.
It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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Quote:
The majority of the U.S. media is utterly beholden to the Left wing
Prove it.
Mike
"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions
I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:Quote:
The majority of the U.S. media is utterly beholden to the Left wing
Prove it.
Mike
It's been done so many times, it's a futile gesture.
*edit* Oh, all right.
Dan Rather and his faked ( but accurate ) documents on Bush
Chris Mathews - Democrat
Tim Russert - Democrat
George Stephenopoulos - Democrat
Almost every major news paper - Liberal
CBS, NBC, MSNBC, ABC = Liberal.
It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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THE ultra liberal Stephonopolis that got his very debate questions straight from Hannity's mouth?
THE very New York Times that had one of the most influential collemns leading up to the war, written by Judith Miller?, and withheld information about illegal wire-taps for a whole year before breaking the story? Keeping it safe until after election time?
You can keep bothering to try to conflate "liberal" with "democrat", but sadly the two aren't synonymous Auraptor. Aside of the rampant scandals, the blatant hypocracy and the sheer outrageous style in which the GOP goes about ripping off the American people with a straight face, corporate democrats...the DLC, specifically those players most often lambasted by the right, from Pelosi to Reid to Clinton, just aren't that fucking different in terms of policy. Believe me, they do not vote like liberals.
..................
I'll give you this. The closest thing to having a liberal news media outlet on tv is MSNBC. It has definitely swung to the middle and maybe even left of it. That I admit freely. Of course that could just mean they've decided to start reporting honestly. As Colbert said, "truth has a well known liberal bias."
More likely though(because what big corporation cares about truth really), is that people weren't hearing this kind of voice anywhere else, and that those looking for soemthing they could relate to, or that made sense in the universe, gravitated to Olbermann. I remember his show 4 years ago. It didn't sound like it does now. He has been emboldened over time with ratings he got for the little hint of integrity that we felt he imbued into the tv news spectrum.
I guess MSNBC finally decided they had something there. Keep in mind though that MSNBC was the one to cancel Donahue when he had good ratings, but was talking about the lead up to the war and how it was a bad idea. Maybe parent company GE didn't like that so much. I wonder how well their own war profiteering went.
But I could name as many and more sources that are conservative. Lou Dobbs(hates Bush and Liberals)
Glenn Beck, Bill O'reilley, John Gibson, Sean Hannity, New York Post, Wall Street Journal, Tim russert(oh was he on your list?) Joe Scarborough, Pat Buchanon, Rush Limbaugh, Michael Savage, Laura Ingram, lets just say "nearly all talk radio and cable news outlets" how am I doing?
We could go around like this all day.
I still think it would make more sense for you to look at why you think a media outlet run by of all things GE, would choose to sway the public's opinion in a liberal direction.
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Because George played grown up once by asking a legit question, you dismiss his work for Clinton's 1st campaign and his time in the Clinton White House? Really? Wow.
The NY Times which has participated in treasonous actions, releasing stories which the White House specifically asked it NOT to release ( the SWIFT program )
Olbermann isn't driven by any sense of duty, truth in reporting or obligation to " tell it like it is ", this clown is nothing more than a self absorbed prima dona,
Of your list of personalities,Glenn Beck, Bill O'reilley, , Sean Hannity, Tim russert(oh was he on your list?) Joe Scarborough, Pat Buchanon, Rush Limbaugh, Michael Savage, Laura Ingram, NONE of them are news anchors. They're entertainers. As for news papers, it'd be easier for me to post the ones NOT Left wing slanted than to list all the ones which were. And spare me this straw man of who owns the news makes them 'Right-wing'. It simply isn't the case , where you have liberal editors, liberal reporters, and liberal anchors.
And yes, Tim Russert is on my list of Libs ,as he's definatly no conservative.
Those who I'd say are the most credible are Gibson and ( Chris ) Wallace.
It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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See? You haven't PROVEN anything - you've merely given opinions.
You consider Olbermann a self-absorbed primadonna, yet consider O'Reilly an "entertainer" - they run exactly the same kind of shows! One has a bit of a left-wing bent, and one a decidedly right-wing bent, but they report on the same stories and they both spin them.
I know you think Faux News is the only one that "gets it right", but they've been caught lying more than Dan Rather. The only people who don't know that are people who only get their news from Faux News.
As for "treasonous" actions by the NY Times, they were treasonous because the White House ASKED them not to report the story? So if they merely ASK now, and you don't comply, it's treason? But in your book, outting a covert operative during a time of war is NOT treasonous, right? In your world - and Dick Nixon's - it's not a crime if the President does it.
Mike
"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions
I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock
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Quote:- I'll give you that, but it doesn't mean a damn thing when talking about the NEWS media, now does it. THAT is what I'm referring to, CBS, NBC, ABC, MSNBC, and the bulk of the print/ news paper media is decisively Left wing. Only FOX NEWS even tries to offer up an objective to 'right' slant.
Originally posted by Kwicko:
See? You haven't PROVEN anything - you've merely given opinions.
You consider Olbermann a self-absorbed primadonna, yet consider O'Reilly an "entertainer" - they run exactly the same kind of shows! One has a bit of a left-wing bent, and one a decidedly right-wing bent, but they report on the same stories and they both spin them.
[qutoe] I know you think Faux News is the only one that "gets it right", but they've been caught lying more than Dan Rather. The only people who don't know that are people who only get their news from Faux News.
No, they haven't. More Left wing spin.
As for "treasonous" actions by the NY Times, they were treasonous because the White House ASKED them not to report the story? So if they merely ASK now, and you don't comply, it's treason? But in your book, outting a covert operative during a time of war is NOT treasonous, right? In your world - and Dick Nixon's - it's not a crime if the President does it.
Mike
The White House didn't out any covert operatives, the Plames/Wilson's outted THEMSELVES. Joe Wilson lied, and that's been undeniably proven, so this whole fiasco about them is nothing but a colossal farce on their part to bring down the Administration.
As for the NYT ( again, a Liberal news paper ) running w/ a story which the President asks you NOT to run, why in the hell would they go against the President's wishes in matters of national security ? Even if the matter is a toss up, why not err on the side of security ? No rules or laws were being broken as is, but releasing the story only ended up striking a blow against those trying to fight the terrorist.
Listen, we could do this all day, rehashing the 1000's of cases which prove the news media in predominantly LEFT wing. It's a story which has been done ad nausium , but because I have a life, I'm not going to waste my time trying to convince you otherwise.
Best I can do for you now is to point to FOX NEWS , which rates #1 on cable for most watched network, and let you try to figure out the rest on your own.
It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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Quote:- I'll give you that, but it doesn't mean a damn thing when talking about the NEWS media, now does it. THAT is what I'm referring to, CBS, NBC, ABC, MSNBC, and the bulk of the print/ news paper media is decisively Left wing. Only FOX NEWS even tries to offer up an objective to 'right' slant.
Originally posted by Kwicko:
See? You haven't PROVEN anything - you've merely given opinions.
You consider Olbermann a self-absorbed primadonna, yet consider O'Reilly an "entertainer" - they run exactly the same kind of shows! One has a bit of a left-wing bent, and one a decidedly right-wing bent, but they report on the same stories and they both spin them.
[qutoe] I know you think Faux News is the only one that "gets it right", but they've been caught lying more than Dan Rather. The only people who don't know that are people who only get their news from Faux News.
No, they haven't. More Left wing spin.
As for "treasonous" actions by the NY Times, they were treasonous because the White House ASKED them not to report the story? So if they merely ASK now, and you don't comply, it's treason? But in your book, outting a covert operative during a time of war is NOT treasonous, right? In your world - and Dick Nixon's - it's not a crime if the President does it.
Mike
The White House didn't out any covert operatives, the Plames/Wilson's outted THEMSELVES. Joe Wilson lied, and that's been undeniably proven, so this whole fiasco about them is nothing but a colossal farce on their part to bring down the Administration.
As for the NYT ( again, a Liberal news paper ) running w/ a story which the President asks you NOT to run, why in the hell would they go against the President's wishes in matters of national security ? Even if the matter is a toss up, why not err on the side of security ? No rules or laws were being broken as is, but releasing the story only ended up striking a blow against those trying to fight the terrorist.
Listen, we could do this all day, rehashing the 1000's of cases which prove the news media in predominantly LEFT wing. It's a story which has been done ad nausium , but because I have a life, I'm not going to waste my time trying to convince you otherwise.
Best I can do for you now is to point to FOX NEWS , which rates #1 on cable for most watched network, and let you try to figure out the rest on your own.
It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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Quote:- I'll give you that, but it doesn't mean a damn thing when talking about the NEWS media, now does it. THAT is what I'm referring to, CBS, NBC, ABC, MSNBC, and the bulk of the print/ news paper media is decisively Left wing. Only FOX NEWS even tries to offer up an objective to 'right' slant.
Originally posted by Kwicko:
See? You haven't PROVEN anything - you've merely given opinions.
You consider Olbermann a self-absorbed primadonna, yet consider O'Reilly an "entertainer" - they run exactly the same kind of shows! One has a bit of a left-wing bent, and one a decidedly right-wing bent, but they report on the same stories and they both spin them.
[qutoe] I know you think Faux News is the only one that "gets it right", but they've been caught lying more than Dan Rather. The only people who don't know that are people who only get their news from Faux News.
Caught 'lying' ? By who... Media Matters? The Daily KOS ? Nice try.
Quote:
As for "treasonous" actions by the NY Times, they were treasonous because the White House ASKED them not to report the story? So if they merely ASK now, and you don't comply, it's treason? But in your book, outting a covert operative during a time of war is NOT treasonous, right? In your world - and Dick Nixon's - it's not a crime if the President does it.
Mike
The White House didn't out any covert operatives, the Plames/Wilson's outted THEMSELVES. Joe Wilson lied, and that's been undeniably proven, so this whole fiasco about them is nothing but a colossal farce on their part to bring down the Administration.
As for the NYT ( again, a Liberal news paper ) running w/ a story which the President asks you NOT to run, why in the hell would they go against the President's wishes in matters of national security ? Even if the matter is a toss up, why not err on the side of security ? No rules or laws were being broken as is, but releasing the story only ended up striking a blow against those trying to fight the terrorist. It's simply nonsensical.
Listen, we could do this all day, rehashing the 1000's of cases which prove the news media in predominantly LEFT wing. It's a story which has been done ad nausium , but because I have a life, I'm not going to waste my time trying to convince you otherwise.
Best I can do for you now is to point to FOX NEWS , which rates #1 on cable for most watched network, and let you try to figure out the rest on your own.
It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:
What are you poor reople going to do after January when you don't have Bush to hate on any more?
"Keep the Shiny side up"
Throw a party.
"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."
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Hey, 'Rap - Hit “Reply” again…
Quote:
I'll give you that, but it doesn't mean a damn thing when talking about the NEWS media, now does it. THAT is what I'm referring to, CBS, NBC, ABC, MSNBC, and the bulk of the print/ news paper media is decisively Left wing. Only FOX NEWS even tries to offer up an objective to 'right' slant.
Okay, I can play the same game. None of your assertions mean a damn thing. They're just more right-wing spin. You haven't proven anything, just repeated the same tired talking points again and again.
I know you don't think anyone in the Administration outed Valerie Plame, but you DO remember Scooter Libby, don't you? He was actually convicted in the case, so I'd say SOMEONE in the Administration had something to do with it. To say otherwise, or to say it's "proven" or "undeniable fact" that it didn't happen is just a lie. Another lie by the right - imagine that!
Quote:
As for the NYT ( again, a Liberal news paper ) running w/ a story which the President asks you NOT to run, why in the hell would they go against the President's wishes...?
Why go against the President's wishes? Because he's the President, not the Emporer or God. Tell me, was it treasonous of Woodward and Bernstein to report on the Watergate case? Was it treasonous to report on the Monica Lewinski scandal, even though the President wished you wouldn't?
Quote:
Best I can do for you now is to point to FOX NEWS , which rates #1 on cable for most watched network, and let you try to figure out the rest on your own.
Ah, so on the day when MSNBC passes them in the ratings, will you then bow down, admit your mistakes, and sanctify MSNBC as the only "right" news network, simply because they're tops in ratings? C'mon, now - COMMIT to it! If MSNBC surpasses Fox News in the ratings, you will proclaim them the ultimate arbiter of all truth and knowledge. Take the bet. I triple-dog dare you. You know in your heart that it will never happen, so what have you got to lose?
Quote:
No rules or laws were being broken as is, but releasing the story only ended up striking a blow against those trying to fight the terrorist.
So you say. More right-wing spin. "Torture isn't torture any more", and all that. And, by the way, are you sure we're only fighting one single terrorist? You keep referring to us as fighting "The Terrorist" - I thought there were supposed to be more terrorists than just the one...
You will automatically and without fail dismiss ANY news story that comes from what you perceive as "liberal" media. Yet you would ask that we not do the same to YOUR favored news outlet. If it came from the New York Times, it's automatically treasonous, whereas if the exact same story and coverage would have come from Faux News, you'd instantly accept it as fact and patriotic vigilance.
You have absolutely no objectivity. You won't listen to facts, only to the opinions reported by Faux News, so why should I make any effort to accept their views, when you won't do the same courtesy to my chosen news outlets? I get my news from a variety of sources - NBC, CBS, ABC, CNN, MSNBC, BBC, NPR, and others. All have their little slants, but if you pick up the stories from many different angles, you tend to get a better idea what the real picture is.
One thing I *WON'T* be doing is getting my "news" from Faux News. Let's see... O'Really insists that there are NO HOMELESS VETERANS and that John Edwards is making it all up, and then, when he's faced with the facts - and a bunch of actual homeless vets, he tries to deny that he ever said it, or that he meant it. And that's the way it always goes with those bloviating morons at Fox.
PS: "24" is NOT a documentary. It's fiction. You realize that, don't you?
Quote:
Listen, we could do this all day, rehashing the 1000's of cases which prove the news media in predominantly LEFT wing. It's a story which has been done ad nausium...
So, because the as
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Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:
What are you poor reople going to do after January when you don't have Bush to hate on any more?
"Keep the Shiny side up"
Throw a party.
And how. I threw one when Nixon died, and another when Reagan died. Bush leaving office should be good for at least as big a bash!
Mike
"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions
I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock
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Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Not me whose playing w/ the numbers. I'm just dealin in the facts. Never said W didn't expand Gov't or raise the debt, now did I ? Nope. But the economy did grow after the recession that W inherited. Grew every quarter since his tax cuts went into effect.
Yep. Those numbers totally support your point, as long as you ignore pesky little things like context, and staggering dept and deficits.
Other than that, it's peachy.
"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."
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Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Not me whose playing w/ the numbers. I'm just dealin in the facts. Never said W didn't expand Gov't or raise the debt, now did I ? Nope. But the economy did grow after the recession that W inherited. Grew every quarter since his tax cuts went into effect.
Yep. Those numbers totally support your point, as long as you ignore pesky little things like context, and staggering dept and deficits.
Other than that, it's peachy.
"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."
Well... YEAH! You're finally getting it - in 'Crappy's world, you ignore anything that doesn't make your guy look better right here and right now, and the world is a pinker shade of rosy! Besides, debt and deficits? Those sound like the kinds of things that other people should deal with; let's just push them off the table for a few more years, then they won't matter anymore.
Mike
"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions
I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock
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Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Almost every major news paper - Liberal
CBS, NBC, MSNBC, ABC = Liberal.
I am still amazed by the insistance by righties that the corporate-controlled media, which has been glancing over or ignore every flaw of McCain, yet spend weeks trumping on the same tired Wright story, is "Librul".
"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."
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But didn't you hear? It's been proven by mere dint of 'Rappy saying it over and over! As the right knows all too well, a lie told often enough becomes the truth.
All together now, parrots:
"RRrrraaawwwwwk! WMD! WMD! WMD!
Stay the Course! Stay the Course!"
Mike
"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions
I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock
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Umm, y'all DO know that F*X "news" learned their shrill trade of bias and distortion at the knee of the Sinclair Broadcast Group, right ?
Remember I am originally from Baltimore, where the bias and bastardy of Sinclair is quite legendary, especially since it's their main office and they've been meddling in local politics ever since they started backing Schaeffer, a universally hated sumbitch who's only salvation in the political area is the moral and intellectual poverty of his opponents, which sadly, isn't saying very much about either side.
As far as print media, one need look no further than any paper which is a descendant of the original Hearst publishing empire, damn near singlehandedly guilty of inciting a needless war over a fictional and frivilous cause, and doesn't THAT sound familiar ?
From "Remember the maine!" to yellowcake and mushroom clouds, the Hearst bunch has never met a war they didn't love or encourage.
And golly gee, isn't it INTERESTING how from the original robber barons, media moguls and other scum, to the red scare warmongers and trade union busters, to the business plot and fascist support in europe as well as trading with the enemy, and the eventual military industrial complex spawned in the fifties and continuing today to push for war, war, war and profit, profit, profit...
How the same NAMES pop up, over and over again.
So don't blame F*X "news" for carrying on the time honored tradition that's in truth been going on since 1906 - it's just that with the advent of the internet, which they HATE, we now tend to catch them at this shit since they no longer have a total lock on the information that reaches us.
In the real world, there's lies, damn lies, and whatever sludge is on the mainstream news networks.
-Frem
*Support Links
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinclair_Broadcast_Group
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Sinclair_Broadcast_Group
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Donald_Schaefer
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Randolph_Hearst
http://freepress.org/columns/display/7/2005/1123
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Oh, and Nobody wants to thank you for staying topical...
No, Nobody really wants to know what happened over in the "What if no Iraq war" thread.
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Oh, but Fremmie, you know nothing you've cited can be trusted, since so much of it came from Wiki, right? I mean, Wiki only counts as factual info if it supports the position of the right!
Mike
"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions
I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock
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Quote:
Originally posted by BigDamnNobody:Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Oh, and Nobody wants to thank you for staying topical...
No, Nobody really wants to know what happened over in the "What if no Iraq war" thread.
What happened? Last I looked, you posted a bunch of gibberish and a bunch of links. I've been a bit busy and haven't really had a chance to look at them yet or rebut them...
Meanwhile, here's a bunch of other links:
Women's rights:
http://www.nancyreaganisabagofonions.com
Rebuilding:
http://www.bushorchimp.com
http://www.youforgotpoland.org/mjames/yfp/
yourself.Mike
"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions
I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock
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Quote:- I'll give you that, but it doesn't mean a damn thing when talking about the NEWS media, now does it. THAT is what I'm referring to, CBS, NBC, ABC, MSNBC, and the bulk of the print/ news paper media is decisively Left wing. Only FOX NEWS even tries to offer up an objective to 'right' slant.
Originally posted by Kwicko:
See? You haven't PROVEN anything - you've merely given opinions.
You consider Olbermann a self-absorbed primadonna, yet consider O'Reilly an "entertainer" - they run exactly the same kind of shows! One has a bit of a left-wing bent, and one a decidedly right-wing bent, but they report on the same stories and they both spin them.
Quote:
I know you think Faux News is the only one that "gets it right", but they've been caught lying more than Dan Rather. The only people who don't know that are people who only get their news from Faux News.
Caught 'lying' ? By who... Media Matters? The Daily KOS ? Nice try.
Quote:
As for "treasonous" actions by the NY Times, they were treasonous because the White House ASKED them not to report the story? So if they merely ASK now, and you don't comply, it's treason? But in your book, outting a covert operative during a time of war is NOT treasonous, right? In your world - and Dick Nixon's - it's not a crime if the President does it.
Mike
The White House didn't out any covert operatives, the Plames/Wilson's outted THEMSELVES. Joe Wilson lied, and that's been undeniably proven, so this whole fiasco about them is nothing but a colossal farce on their part to bring down the Administration.
As for the NYT ( again, a Liberal news paper ) running w/ a story which the President asks you NOT to run, why in the hell would they go against the President's wishes in matters of national security ? Even if the matter is a toss up, why not err on the side of security ? No rules or laws were being broken as is, but releasing the story only ended up striking a blow against those trying to fight the terrorist. It's simply nonsensical.
Listen, we could do this all day, rehashing the 1000's of cases which prove the news media in predominantly LEFT wing. It's a story which has been done ad nausium , but because I have a life, I'm not going to waste my time trying to convince you otherwise.
Best I can do for you now is to point to FOX NEWS , which rates #1 on cable for most watched network, and let you try to figure out the rest on your own.
It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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Quote:Tenuous now, since he's not his preacher and Obama has distanced himself a great deal. Not my spin at all.
Originally posted by AURaptor:
20 + yrs is anything but a "tenuous" relationship, citizen. C'mon now, stop the spinning.
Quote:Not really, they've been blown out of all proportion by 19th century style nationalists, this is verging on the personal AU
And Wright's comments are worse than you think, but you don't even want to acknowledge that anyways.
.Quote:Please, I've given you one example where the entire US media has unfairly exaggerated in one direction, and completely ignored another. You've just stated that the "media is left". It's not a refutation. You've got to show how it is, if all you've got is "foxnews is best, foxnews says so" and "the media is liberal, I heard it some place, it is, really it is", you should take a step back and really think about why it is you think the whole media is liberally biased.
The majority of the U.S. media is utterly beholden to the Left wing, and only FOX comes close to getting things right (accurate)
If you've come to that conclusion via your own thought process, you'll be able to give an example or two about where there's been a demonstrated bias (and no, criticising George Bush for once doesn't count). If it's just based on what some guy said, what 'everyone knows', or 'what's been said a million times' then you probably won't be able to back up your statement, and you're just building your house on sand.
Quote:I don't think once in a post indicates 'fondness'. Besides I did give reasons (and bloody good ones at that) for why what I said was irrelevant, was irrelevant. The same courtesy would be nice, please.
Hagee and Parsley ? Irrelevant, as you are fond of saying.
This is getting boring. You're making flat statements as if they're established fact with no attempt to back them up. Hagee and Parsley are irrelevant because...
Quote:Bush said ‘Urgent Threat’, and other Synonyms of ‘imminent threat’, but Donald Rumsfeld and other members of Bush’s administration DID say ‘imminent threat’. In other words, Bush’s administration while clarifying and restaiting the White House and George Bush's opinion, said flat out that Iraq was an imminent threat; George Bush himself alluded to it and said it flat out with different wording. They said Iraq could launch WMDs in 45 minutes at that very moment for crying out loud. I'm starting to feel like Winston Smith...
Bush never said Iraq was an imminent threat, but that we should act BEFORE it becomes one. I'm absolutely sure of this.
Quote:It's totally deniable, because there's no evidence to support it. Beyond that, it's just plain silly. Saddam had Weapons of Mass Destruction that were deployed for launch in 45 minutes, that could threaten the United States of America and its allies, but were easily movable to be hidden under a berry bush in Syria? Erm, ok. If it’s undeniable stagger me with your evidence, you’re making the claim, the burden of evidence is on you.
I think it's undeniable there WERE WMD in Iraq, but they were spirited away to Syria before we got there. And even if not, Saddam planned on reconstituting his WMD program, once the U.N. was out of his hair, so it's clear, he wasn't going to play by the rules.
Quote:Did you read what I wrote? I clearly stated that whether you agree with his policies or not, he was playing on peoples fears. If you say “Saddam has teh WMDs and hez gonna blowed up your shit!!!11!!!” you are playing on peoples fears, whether he has the ‘WMDs’ or not. It’s really rather simple. The evidence for where he played on peoples fears is where he says “these guys you should be afraid of, we’re gonna get them”.
There's no evidence was playing on anyone's fears. He was acting in a prudent, responsible manner.
Quote:Whe
Actually, the Gore, Durbin, Murtha points were to show them, Democrats, being un-American. I proved that point rather conclusively, thank you.
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Quote:In which
As for the NYT ( again, a Liberal news paper )
Judith Miller parroted WMD claims w/o question? Liberal???? Wow.
---------------------------------
Let's party like it's 1929.
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Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:Quote:- I'll give you that, but it doesn't mean a damn thing when talking about the NEWS media, now does it. THAT is what I'm referring to, CBS, NBC, ABC, MSNBC, and the bulk of the print/ news paper media is decisively Left wing. Only FOX NEWS even tries to offer up an objective to 'right' slant.
Originally posted by Kwicko:
See? You haven't PROVEN anything - you've merely given opinions.
You consider Olbermann a self-absorbed primadonna, yet consider O'Reilly an "entertainer" - they run exactly the same kind of shows! One has a bit of a left-wing bent, and one a decidedly right-wing bent, but they report on the same stories and they both spin them.Quote:
I know you think Faux News is the only one that "gets it right", but they've been caught lying more than Dan Rather. The only people who don't know that are people who only get their news from Faux News.
Caught 'lying' ? By who... Media Matters? The Daily KOS ? Nice try.Quote:
As for "treasonous" actions by the NY Times, they were treasonous because the White House ASKED them not to report the story? So if they merely ASK now, and you don't comply, it's treason? But in your book, outting a covert operative during a time of war is NOT treasonous, right? In your world - and Dick Nixon's - it's not a crime if the President does it.
Mike
The White House didn't out any covert operatives, the Plames/Wilson's outted THEMSELVES. Joe Wilson lied, and that's been undeniably proven, so this whole fiasco about them is nothing but a colossal farce on their part to bring down the Administration.
As for the NYT ( again, a Liberal news paper ) running w/ a story which the President asks you NOT to run, why in the hell would they go against the President's wishes in matters of national security ? Even if the matter is a toss up, why not err on the side of security ? No rules or laws were being broken as is, but releasing the story only ended up striking a blow against those trying to fight the terrorist. It's simply nonsensical.
Listen, we could do this all day, rehashing the 1000's of cases which prove the news media in predominantly LEFT wing. It's a story which has been done ad nausium , but because I have a life, I'm not going to waste my time trying to convince you otherwise.
Best I can do for you now is to point to FOX NEWS , which rates #1 on cable for most watched network, and let you try to figure out the rest on your own.
It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
Okay... That's actually funny. :)
Thanks for putting a little humor into things.
Mike
"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions
I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock
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Quote:
AuRaptor Wrote
Quote:
Best I can do for you now is to point to FOX NEWS , which rates #1 on cable for most watched network, and let you try to figure out the rest on your own.
To which I replied, and laid down the following challenge:
Quote:
Ah, so on the day when MSNBC passes them in the ratings, will you then bow down, admit your mistakes, and sanctify MSNBC as the only "right" news network, simply because they're tops in ratings? C'mon, now - COMMIT to it! If MSNBC surpasses Fox News in the ratings, you will proclaim them the ultimate arbiter of all truth and knowledge. Take the bet. I triple-dog dare you. You know in your heart that it will never happen, so what have you got to lose?
Good thing you didn't take that bet, since Countdown With Keith Olbermann beat The O'Reilly Factor in three out of five days last week...
It still troubles me, though. If the media is so left-biased, then how on earth could Fox News be the #1-rated cable news network? It doesn't compute. If they're all so liberal, and that's what sells, then how is it that an un-liberal cable network has the top ratings?
Mike
"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions
I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:Quote:
AuRaptor Wrote
Quote:
Best I can do for you now is to point to FOX NEWS , which rates #1 on cable for most watched network, and let you try to figure out the rest on your own.
To which I replied, and laid down the following challenge:Quote:
Ah, so on the day when MSNBC passes them in the ratings, will you then bow down, admit your mistakes, and sanctify MSNBC as the only "right" news network, simply because they're tops in ratings? C'mon, now - COMMIT to it! If MSNBC surpasses Fox News in the ratings, you will proclaim them the ultimate arbiter of all truth and knowledge. Take the bet. I triple-dog dare you. You know in your heart that it will never happen, so what have you got to lose?
Good thing you didn't take that bet, since Countdown With Keith Olbermann beat The O'Reilly Factor in three out of five days last week...
It still troubles me, though. If the media is so left-biased, then how on earth could Fox News be the #1-rated cable news network? It doesn't compute. If they're all so liberal, and that's what sells, then how is it that an un-liberal cable network has the top ratings?
Mike
First of all, I was referring to news ratings, not overall network ratings, or those magazine, opinion driven shows. But goodie for " the biggest a-hole IN THE WORLD!!" Olbermann, Was O'Reily out " on assignment " those 3 nights?
The media IS left wing biased, which is EXACTLY why FOX is doing so well w/ its news. THATS the difference, is FOX not being beholden to the far Left wing template. Many viewers are tired of being spoon fed the Lefts' agenda in the form of 'unbiased' news, and are happy to have a choice w/ FOX's central, slight right leaning view of the world. The Left , until recently , wasn't concerned about ratings, because everyone was giving you basically the same, Left wing line. Now that FOX has been kicking tail, there's been a scramble to mix things up a bit and see what works , or what doesn't work, in getting viewers. ( eg - Katie Couric @ NBC going to CBS )
It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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Quote:
( eg - Katie Couric @ NBC )
Sounds like you once again got your "facts" from Faux...
Mike
"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions
I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:Quote:
( eg - Katie Couric @ NBC )
Sounds like you once again got your "facts" from Faux...
Mike
Yeah yeah, her going FROM NBC to CBS News.
I don't watch t.v. news. Haven't for years. I has nothing to do w/ FOX news, which I rarely even watch either. So get over yourself.
It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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Hey, hey, YOU'RE the one who claims to always be dealing in the facts. Guess you're not immune to gettin' 'em wrong, huh?
And I am over myself. I'm not sure I was ever under myself, but I'm definitely over myself.
Mike
"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions
I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock
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Quote:
The media IS left wing biased, which is EXACTLY why FOX is doing so well w/ its news. THATS the difference, is FOX not being beholden to the far Left wing template. Many viewers are tired of being spoon fed the Lefts' agenda in the form of 'unbiased' news, and are happy to have a choice w/ FOX's central, slight right leaning view of the world. The Left , until recently , wasn't concerned about ratings, because everyone was giving you basically the same, Left wing line.
Wow, I thought you were the one who didn't believe in conspiracies. Remember how long and hard we all laughed when Shillary invoked the "vast right-wing conspiracy"? Now you're implying that there's some sort of vast LEFT-WING conspiracy controlling the media. Funny stuff.
EC
Takin' Care of Business, Baby!
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