Sad Story

POSTED BY: GinoBiffaroni
UPDATED: Saturday, August 25, 2007 14:45
VIEWED: 7798
PAGE 1 of 1

GINOBIFFARONI

Thursday, August 16, 2007 4:47 AM

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/36B04283-E43F-4367-90BB-E6C60CB
88F76.htm

Sex for survival
By Afif Sarhan in Baghdad

The US invasion and the sectarian war have
created thousands of widows in Iraq [AFP]
When Rana Jalil, 38, lost her husband in an explosion in Baghdad last year, she could never have imagined becoming a prostitute in order to feed her children.

A mother of four, Jalil sought out employment, but job opportunities for women had decreased since the US invasion.

She begged shop owners, office workers and companies to hire her but was treated with what she calls chauvinistic discrimination.

Within weeks of her husband's death, a doctor diagnosed her children with malnutrition.

Fighting tears, she recalled the desperation which led her to the oldest profession: "In the beginning these were the worst days in my life. My husband was the first man I met and slept with, but I didn't have another option … my children were starving."

She left the house in a daze, she recalled, and walked to the nearest market to find someone who would pay her for sex.

She said: "I'm a nice-looking woman and it wasn't difficult to find a client. When we got to the bed I tried to run away … I just couldn't do it, but he hit and raped me. When he paid me afterwards, it was finished for me.

"When I came home with some food I had bought from that money and saw my children screaming of happiness, I discovered that honour is insignificant compared to the hunger of my children."

Iraqi widows desperate

Prior to the US invasion, Iraqi widows, particularly those who lost husbands during the Iran-Iraq war, were provided with compensation and free education for their children. In some cases, they were provided with free homes.

However, no such safety nets currently exist and widows have few resources at their disposal.

According to the non-governmental organisation Women's Freedom in Iraq (OWFI), 15 per cent of Iraqi women widowed by the war have been desperately searching for temporary marriages or prostitution, either for financial support or protection in the midst of sectarian war.

OLDENGLANDDRY

Thursday, August 16, 2007 10:22 AM

The U.S.A. brings liberty and Democracy to all corners of the globe.

JONGSSTRAW

Thursday, August 16, 2007 12:11 PM

Don't fall for this obvious Al Jazeera anti-America propaganda bullshit. It's as fabricated as the Baghdad Diarist's Journal that has just been admitted to as being totally bogus. Sorry bleeding hearts, best look for another sappy tree somewhere to hug.

KOILA

Thursday, August 16, 2007 12:14 PM

*Shivers and cries*

ZONER

Thursday, August 16, 2007 12:29 PM

not sure i trust the signal on your source but - aw jeez - do i doubt this stuff is happening - and all over (not just iraq)? - hell no.

please go to www.equalitynow.org
it's what joss would want.

HERO

Thursday, August 16, 2007 12:46 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:
When Rana Jalil, 38,

Has to be a phony story, else she'll get stoned. This sort of behaivor is frowned on by the Islamic types.

While this particular story is likely fabricated, the story has a true ring cause it sounds like the same story countless women have told throughout the history of the oldest profession.

This is not caused by the US invasion, its caused because sometimes life presents women with challenges and this is their answer...perhaps the only one they can think of that allows them to survive and provide for themselves and often their children.

You can't blame the US for a problem in humanity that has existed in every age and culture since the dawn of time. I suggest that American freedom, which promotes equal rights for women, has done more to combat this sort of situation then the stoning she'd face under Shariah Law.

H

CHRISISALL

Thursday, August 16, 2007 1:21 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Don't fall for this obvious Al Jazeera anti-America propaganda bullshit.

Okay, try this...
http://dir.salon.com/story/news/feature/2005/06/24/prostitutes/index.h
tml

Still sad Chrisisall

JONGSSTRAW

Thursday, August 16, 2007 7:39 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Don't fall for this obvious Al Jazeera anti-America propaganda bullshit.
Okay, try this...
http://dir.salon.com/story/news/feature/2005/06/24/prostitutes/index.h
tml

Still sad Chrisisall

Okay, I read it. I'm not sure how I feel yet....article says Saddam publicly executed 200 prostitutes a year in Iraq...these girls have fled to Syria to do this work, and they're mostly children and spouses of ex-protected by Sadaam Sunnis from Fallujah. Frankly I'm astonished that this can be going on in Syria.

CHRISISALL

Thursday, August 16, 2007 7:50 PM

I can't believe an international sex-slave trade still exists....or high stakes dog fighting...

Constantly astonished Chrisisall

MALBADINLATIN

Thursday, August 16, 2007 8:00 PM

ooops

JONGSSTRAW

Thursday, August 16, 2007 8:18 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
I can't believe an international sex-slave trade still exists....or high stakes dog fighting...

Constantly astonished Chrisisall

Ok...we already knew about the rampant sex-slave trade in Thailand & Eastern Europe...now this too? Between THIS & the one-button internet filth flourishing out there, we really MUST consider than we ARE horribly flawed creatures, doomed as a species, and truly NOT worthy to continue as the dominant life form on the Earth.

CHRISISALL

Thursday, August 16, 2007 8:38 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
we really MUST consider than we ARE horribly flawed creatures, doomed as a species, and truly NOT worthy to continue as the dominant life form on the Earth.

Or that we're all just really horny, not getting enough, and choosing our crazy behaviour to sublimate.

Chrisisall

KANEMAN

Thursday, August 16, 2007 8:53 PM

"The US invasion and the sectarian war have
created thousands of widows in Iraq
When Rana Jalil, 38, lost her husband in an explosion in Baghdad last year, she could never have imagined becoming a prostitute in order to feed her children."

Can't she have her vagina pulled out for this? Don't those camel-jockeys cut off peoples hands and shit for stealing? Not to mention this story reeks more than Ginobiffaroni's feet.....I smell an agenda here. Gold bond anyone?

CHRISISALL

Thursday, August 16, 2007 9:16 PM

My point has been backed up

GINOBIFFARONI

Sunday, August 19, 2007 1:16 AM

many have been critical of news story's from Al-Jazeera, but I think they are par with BBC which style they seem to emulate.

Just read another story about Israel, and not seeing any conflicts or bias

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/8606B5EE-86E8-40B9-82D9-83F783A
4F0D5.htm

Now, I'll cut and paste the article for those Americans living in a free society afraid to wind up on a list if they follow the link :

Holocaust victims living in poverty
By Jacky Rowland

Click here to watch Jacky Rowland's report on the
Holocaust survivors' call for more support

The Israeli government has been criticised for "severe shortcomings" in its treatment of elderly holocaust survivors.

A report from the state comptroller's office blamed red tape for preventing effective assistance being provided and urged action to help the ageing victims.

Leopold Rosen measures the world by the pipe that connects him to his oxygen machine. He suffers from several chest complaints dating back to when he hid from the Nazis in a forest in Poland.

The German government pays him compensation every month and he gets a small pension from Israel, but he can barely pay for both his drugs and his food.

"I was born of the 5th of June, 1922. Do I have time to wait for help from the government? There are a lot of people in the same position. They don't have time to wait," he told Al Jazeera.

Holocaust survivors have been trying to embarrass the Israeli government into action.

At a recent event, protesters wore symbols from the Nazi-era to drive home their point.

There are about one quarter of a million Holocaust survivors in Israel and official figures say that one in three of them live below the poverty line.

Dignity

"We don't need any charity. We need for people to live at the end of their life with some kind of dignity," Colette Avital, the deputy speaker of the Knesset, said.

"Even though the problem was not caused by the state of Israel, the state bears a responsibility to its citizens."
"Even though the problem was not caused by the state of Israel, the state bears a responsibility to its citizens"

Colette Avital, deputy speaker
of the Knesset
In many ways the experience of the Holocaust defines the state of Israel but until now there has never been a specific government allowance for survivors. That is something the government says it has been trying to address.

The first problem they encountered was that there was no real definition of a Holocaust survivor. So ministers commissioned a report which found that the state needed to set aside hundreds of millions of dollars to help them.

"It's clear that if it rolls out over a few years, thousands of them will pass away," Isaac Herzog, Israeli welfare minister, said as the government continued negotiations with survivors' groups over plans to increase welfare payments.

"So our intention as a government, is to award a stipend of the highest level as soon as possible to the oldest echelon, that is 80 years or older," he said.

Holocaust survivors occupy a unique position in Israeli society so the government is under particular pressure to help them before time runs out.

Another sad yet true story, with all the money spent on arms in that country ( American money for a large part )
They seem to be lacking in other areas, which really conflicts with what they say they are all about.

FREMDFIRMA

Sunday, August 19, 2007 3:31 AM

Don't I know it, and Congress just approved sending 30 BILLION of our tax money to em to buy more weapons with..

It's insane, is what it is.

They've become the monster that once chewed upon them... some of my allies are current and former refuseniks.

-F

6IXSTRINGJACK

Sunday, August 19, 2007 9:40 AM

I think I saw this story on Lifetime last week. Boy, was it a real tear jerker....

Quote:
many have been critical of news story's from Al-Jazeera, but I think they are par with BBC which style they seem to emulate.

Sure... propoganda emulating propoganda, which had originally emulated propoganda.

Does anybody still even believe anything they see on the news? People should really take a few film classes and learn how big media manipulates the will of the sheep through their storytelling and careful manipulation of the facts....

Do I doubt that this scenario and others like it happen? Not at all.....

But this is one of the few cases where I'm going to have to support Hero and Jongs 100%.... This is pure anti-American bullshit and I won't give it another second of my time. Ask the women over there who have been raped and stoned to death for thousands of years before America's meddling and imperialism just how different their lives are today than they were yesterday.

Shit like this is what's going to make us nothing more than a seat at the UN table. Don't be a hater because you want what I got. Make yourself better and get it yourself....

And for [insert your god here]'s sake, if you're an American, stop hating yourself and your country. We are still great and have the ability to be the great nation we are capable of being. Certain individuals need to be purged is all, and remember, just because it was a Rethug that got us into this shit doesn't mean that the answer in 2008 is a Democrat.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

AURAPTOR

Sunday, August 19, 2007 11:32 AM

Where's a good Companion Guild when you really need one ?

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

KOILA

Tuesday, August 21, 2007 2:46 AM

I saw something horrible last night on the news last night, it talked about how there are those in China who take 5-6-7 year old girls, starve them and put them in a boxing ring to fight, only after they fight do they get food.

GINOBIFFARONI

Tuesday, August 21, 2007 4:27 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by koila:
I saw something horrible last night on the news last night, it talked about how there are those in China who take 5-6-7 year old girls, starve them and put them in a boxing ring to fight, only after they fight do they get food.

Do you have a link ? looked but couldn't find anything about this ?

KOILA

Tuesday, August 21, 2007 11:49 AM

I think it was on CTV, I'm not sure, my husband doesn't remember. I'll look for it for you.

JONGSSTRAW

Tuesday, August 21, 2007 12:38 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by koila:
I saw something horrible last night on the news last night, it talked about how there are those in China who take 5-6-7 year old girls, starve them and put them in a boxing ring to fight, only after they fight do they get food.

Hush!, please....don't give Michael Vick any new ideas.

HERO

Tuesday, August 21, 2007 2:48 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:
Now, I'll cut and paste the article for those Americans living in a free society afraid to wind up on a list if they follow the link :

Yeah, but you probably ignored the Editorial that called all good Muslims to finish the job the Nazis started.

H

GINOBIFFARONI

Tuesday, August 21, 2007 3:46 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
Quote:
Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:
Now, I'll cut and paste the article for those Americans living in a free society afraid to wind up on a list if they follow the link :

Yeah, but you probably ignored the Editorial that called all good Muslims to finish the job the Nazis started.

H

Wow, getting all lined up for that State department job hero... wait that was another thread...

The Alliance said they were gonna waltz through Serenity Valley. And we choked 'em with those words. We've done the impossible, and that makes us mighty.

FREMDFIRMA

Tuesday, August 21, 2007 5:10 PM

Well golly gee, there's people who don't like a country who steals their land, slaughters arabic people, and hides behind the skirts of the USA whenever it gets too hot for em, while engaging us as their proxy...

Hmm, who'da thunk it ?

Dude, between AIPAC, COMVERSE, AMDOCS, Pollard, Liberty, Lavon, Ecstacy, Pan-am, and all the rest of the crap these berks have pulled *here*, a substantial amount of *americans* are saying exactly the same thing.

I do not agree with them, anymore than I blame all Christians for assmunches like Dobson and Robertson - but I do view someone of that belief with suspicion, as I do Christians, because of the tacit approval and acceptance of such folk within that belief, show me a widespread and overwhelming rejection and repudation of Christian hatemongers, and maybe that suspicion would ease up... same with other beliefs.

I think it's stupid to even make it a religious issue on either side, this is a state and it's apparatus acting like jackasses under the cover of religion and then hiding behind a long past history of oppression to play the victim, much the same fashion as a crack dealer who murders a rival dealer often starts throwing the race card when it comes to trial, it's bullshit.

Just because a state plays that game doesn't mean anyone else has to - not all Isrealis are Jews, and not all Jews condone what Isreal does, although that fact doesn't seem to be getting through some folks heads, probably cause they're busy ducking american bullets out of a american rifles, and american missles, fired from american attack choppers, fired and piloted by Isrealis, so, I rather doubt they give a fuck about OUR opinion on the matter, you know ?

A hate like that, in BOTH directions, don't deny it, isn't something you can sort out until the shooting stops, cause otherwise no one is going to listen to you.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

GINOBIFFARONI

Tuesday, August 21, 2007 5:44 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Well golly gee, there's people who don't like a country who steals their land, slaughters arabic people, and hides behind the skirts of the USA whenever it gets too hot for em, while engaging us as their proxy...

Hmm, who'da thunk it ?

Dude, between AIPAC, COMVERSE, AMDOCS, Pollard, Liberty, Lavon, Ecstacy, Pan-am, and all the rest of the crap these berks have pulled *here*, a substantial amount of *americans* are saying exactly the same thing.

I do not agree with them, anymore than I blame all Christians for assmunches like Dobson and Robertson - but I do view someone of that belief with suspicion, as I do Christians, because of the tacit approval and acceptance of such folk within that belief, show me a widespread and overwhelming rejection and repudation of Christian hatemongers, and maybe that suspicion would ease up... same with other beliefs.

I think it's stupid to even make it a religious issue on either side, this is a state and it's apparatus acting like jackasses under the cover of religion and then hiding behind a long past history of oppression to play the victim, much the same fashion as a crack dealer who murders a rival dealer often starts throwing the race card when it comes to trial, it's bullshit.

Just because a state plays that game doesn't mean anyone else has to - not all Isrealis are Jews, and not all Jews condone what Isreal does, although that fact doesn't seem to be getting through some folks heads, probably cause they're busy ducking american bullets out of a american rifles, and american missles, fired from american attack choppers, fired and piloted by Isrealis, so, I rather doubt they give a fuck about OUR opinion on the matter, you know ?

A hate like that, in BOTH directions, don't deny it, isn't something you can sort out until the shooting stops, cause otherwise no one is going to listen to you.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

couldn't agree with you more,

but which side is in a better position to disengage ?

in the fight you start to feel that the first to back off is going to be wiped out

The Alliance said they were gonna waltz through Serenity Valley. And we choked 'em with those words. We've done the impossible, and that makes us mighty.

AURAPTOR

Tuesday, August 21, 2007 6:01 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Quote:
Originally posted by koila:
I saw something horrible last night on the news last night, it talked about how there are those in China who take 5-6-7 year old girls, starve them and put them in a boxing ring to fight, only after they fight do they get food.

Hush!, please....don't give Michael Vick any new ideas.

Living in Atlanta, that gave me a chuckle. Amazing ( and sick ) as it sounds, there are folks who still support Mike Vick. Even AFTER he's agreed to admit guilt.

About the only things worse than dog fighting Vick could have done was to sponser a kiddie fight club, or possibly kiddie porn.

Even then, some would still find a way to justify him being allowed to play football.

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

HERO

Tuesday, August 21, 2007 7:07 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:
Wow, getting all lined up for that State department job hero... wait that was another thread...

Are you saying that AJ Network has NEVER editorialized about the destruction of Isreal?

Cause I'm pretty sure they have. Maybe your too busy comparing them to the BBC, and we all know how much the BBC loves America and Isreal.

H

CHRISISALL

Tuesday, August 21, 2007 7:13 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by koila:
I saw something horrible last night on the news last night, it talked about how there are those in China who take 5-6-7 year old girls, starve them and put them in a boxing ring to fight, only after they fight do they get food.

Like the sex slave trade, that's been around for a while (but not as long, obviously).

Chrisisall

GINOBIFFARONI

Tuesday, August 21, 2007 7:24 PM

Editorial......

Everyone has a opinion, Israel not being a valid state is one. Many around the world feel that its formation was the biggest post WW2 mistake made

They are not trying to pass it off as news,

Should I slam every newspaper that prints Ann Coulter as propaganda ?

The Alliance said they were gonna waltz through Serenity Valley. And we choked 'em with those words. We've done the impossible, and that makes us mighty.

JONGSSTRAW

Tuesday, August 21, 2007 7:59 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:
Editorial......

Everyone has a opinion, Israel not being a valid state is one.

Every Jew-hating Nazi neaderthal ya mean...right?

Quote:
Should I slam every newspaper that prints Ann Coulter as propaganda?

Yes...if they print it in the News section, and not in the editorial or op-ed pages.

GINOBIFFARONI

Tuesday, August 21, 2007 8:09 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Quote:
Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:
Editorial......

Everyone has a opinion, Israel not being a valid state is one.
Every Jew-hating Nazi neaderthal ya mean...right?

Quote:
Should I slam every newspaper that prints Ann Coulter as propaganda?
Yes...if they print it in the News section, and not in the editorial or op-ed pages.

My grandparents on my mothers side were in German camps, ( Polish Military ), I do not consider myself a Jew Hater either, but I think creating Israel was a huge mistake. Hero was dismissing Al Jazera because of some of their Editorials as being a propaganda network, and as you and I agree editorials do not label a news source as propaganda, editing or reporting false news does

JONGSSTRAW

Tuesday, August 21, 2007 8:31 PM

Gino,

I didn't intend to imply that statement to you personally...sorry if it looked that way...more towards the Pirate News, Skinheads & Achminajhads of the world.

As far as Israel's creation "being a mistake"...I mean it's 50+years already...it's not debatable or relevant anymore. It just IS...and they have fought at least 6 wars to earn the right to keep it.

FREMDFIRMA

Tuesday, August 21, 2007 8:55 PM

Quote:
but which side is in a better position to disengage ?

That's a big problem, cause Isreal has even less diplomatic credibility than WE do, and that's sayin something.

Mostly the problem is, a ceasefire is called, and the IDF doesn't even pause to reload, screaming all the while, when the return fire starts picking up again, how these pesky lesser people didn't lay down arms like they were told.

And every time the UN goes in to try and help hold a ceasefire, they've taken fire from, or been shelled, by th IDF often quite deliberately.

Journalists go in to bring it to the worlds attention, the IDF shoots em.

Are there going to be occasional zealots on either side who'll cap a round ? sure.
Is that really reason to throw out a ceasefire utterly ?

There's also the problem of Isreal dictating Palestines government to them in spite of what they want, and attempting to do so to other neighboring nations as well.
(Syria, for example)

Imma take some flak for sayin it so, but the painful fact is that Isreal wants peace with the rest of the middle east about as much, and in the same way, as Hitler wanted peace with europe.

They've *become* the very monster they once fled, and Palestine looks like 1940's warsaw, with ghettos and refugee camps that with even the smallest further push, could turn into worse.

I don't begrudge their right to exist, even if we did steal other peoples land and give it to them, I begrude them pillaging more from the people that initially gave them sanctuary all throughout history all the way back to the Medina Compact.

Those "six wars" you mention Jong, were mostly conflicts of conquest and attempts to take more territory by force - there's no "right" about that.

It's wrong, and imma call it wrong, be offended if ya like - it's about time folks called em on this shit, they've been hiding behind that whole oppressed bullshit for far too long.

Just ponder what our response would be if Mexico started forcibly colonising Texas on us, and you might just understand a little bit.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

GINOBIFFARONI

Tuesday, August 21, 2007 9:00 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Gino,

I didn't intend to imply that statement to you personally...sorry if it looked that way...more towards the Pirate News, Skinheads & Achminajhads of the world.

As far as Israel's creation "being a mistake"...I mean it's 50+years already...it's not debatable or relevant anymore. It just IS...and they have fought at least 6 wars to earn the right to keep it.

Problem is any solution has to look at some of the injustice caused by that mistake, perhaps the mistake has to at least be acknowledged, something our civilization is not good at.

As Versailles caused WW2, Israel has been the core of nearly every conflict in that region since its inception, a two state solution will not work when one of those states exists only in name, with all the control to the other. And in addition any long term solution must have these people standing on their own, neither would survive without foreign aid at the moment...

Another source of conflict is water, Israel uses something like %200 more per person than its neighbors ( I could go looking for the numbers if you like ) and have in the past used military force to stop irrigation projects in neighboring countrys to protect their monopoly.

If winning war gives you the right to exist, why prop up one side of that fight. In 73 the Israeli airforce suffered %180 losses in aircraft, without aid from the US they likely would have lost, thereby validating the Palestian position ?.....
I don't think so, a way has to be found for them to live in one country. To achieve that both side will have to cave alot...

The Alliance said they were gonna waltz through Serenity Valley. And we choked 'em with those words. We've done the impossible, and that makes us mighty.

GINOBIFFARONI

Tuesday, August 21, 2007 9:05 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:

Just ponder what our response would be if Mexico started forcibly colonising Texas on us, and you might just understand a little bit.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

More like Europe handing New Jersey over to become the homeland of the scientogists, and they then start to force out anyone who disagreed and started a massive scientogist immrigration policy to fill the houses of the people they just drove out.....

Then they start pissing off the neighbors

FREMDFIRMA

Wednesday, August 22, 2007 12:46 AM

Funny that this was on my mind today - I spotted a totally awesome peace overture that come from a direction most unexpected....

===============
Original URL -
http://haaretz.com/hasen/spages/895893.html

Jewish-Hawaiian surfing guru donates surfboards to Gazans
Last update - 17:05 21/08/2007
By The Associated Press

An 86-year-old Jewish surfing guru from Hawaii donated on Tuesday 12 surfboards to Gaza's small surfing community, in a gesture he hoped would get Israelis and Palestinians catching the same peace wave.

"God will surf with the devil, if the waves are good," retired doctor Dorian Paskowitz said Tuesday. "When a surfer sees another surfer with a board, he can't help but say something that brings them together."

Paskowitz emerged shirtless at the Israel-Gaza crossing after handing over the dozen boards to Gazan surfers waiting on the other side. He said he was spurred into action after reading a story about two Gaza surfers who couldn't enjoy the wild waves off the coast because they had only one board to share between them.

Arthur Rashkovan, a 28-year-old surfer from Tel Aviv, said Paskowitz's project was part of a larger effort called Surfing for Peace, aimed at bringing Middle East surfers closer together. He said eight-time world surfing champion Kelly Slater, who is of Syrian descent, is expected to arrive in Israel in October to take part in the drive.

Paskowitz, whom Rashkovan called a 'guru' to Israeli surfers, has surfed in Israel several times over the past five decades.

Paskowitz, a father of nine, served in the Navy during World War II, practiced family medicine for more than half a century and has published books on surfing and health. He said he's surfed for 75 years, in locations all over the world, and ranks the waves off the coasts of Israel and Gaza as among the world's best.

"It's really quite remarkable how good they are for modern surfing," he said.

JONGSSTRAW

Wednesday, August 22, 2007 12:56 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Those "six wars" you mention Jong, were mostly conflicts of conquest and attempts to take more territory by force - there's no "right" about that.

Oh how you've been poorly educated about Israel, oh self-proclaimed resident historian.
2 biggest "wars"...1967 Six Day War : Israel was sneak-attacked by forces of UAR...the short-lived alliance of Egypt, Syria, Lebanon etc. Moshe Dyan & Co. completely surrounded all the attacking forces...could have wiped them all out of existence but didn't out of mercy. Wouldn't / shouldn't have been countries called Egypt, Syria etc by all rights after their un-provoked agression and sneak attack against Israel. Jump ahead 6 years to the Yom Kippor War of 1973...AGAIN ISRAEL was SNEAK ATTACKED by Egypt and Arab allies...on their highest holiest Holiday ..(nice touch, Arab scum )....Once again Israel, this time with Sharon et al, whipped those cowardly women-killers in no time, and again had them completely at their mercy...and once again Israel let them all live and slither away on their bellies back to home so they could beat their wives and rape their daughters out of their bitter frustration at being inferior human beings and seeing all their comrades die at the hands of the dreaded JEW.... Israel did occupy add'l lands after that...only as a result of those 2 WARS STARTED BY ARAB COWARDS...forcing Israel to improve their overall defenses for their citizens...to GUARD AGAINST FUTURE UN-PROVOKED SNEAK ATTACKS BY THE VASTLY-SUPERIOR FORCES & VASTLY SUPERIOR RESOURCED ARAB dictatorships and slave-states. It was like NY, Mass, Penna, Md, Va, NJ, Georgia all attacking Delaware for Christ sakes...and all Israel ever kept for it's un-asked-for troubles was the boardwalk in Atlantic City. ...And prior to all of this they had to originally fight against Great Britain, Egypt, etc in their mini wars of post UN ratification of statehood...circa 1947, 1948, and 1949... because some folks basically just couldn't handle it. I don't personally understand all the hatred towards Israel from America...our 2 countries have the same basics...freedom, democracy, women's rights, etc etc...what Arab country has that? I just think it's good 'ole fashioned Jew hatred...plenty of that here in USA during WWII...plenty of folks just adored what the Nazis and just about everybody else did to Jews all over Europe and the Balkans....fun times for the pyschopathic, illiterate, bad-breathed mob of trogladytic neaderthals...and lots of folks today are jealous that they missed out on those cherished fun times.

FREMDFIRMA

Wednesday, August 22, 2007 6:20 AM

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!

You actually *bought* that line of crap ?
History ain't ever, never, ever just that black and white simple, and the turf tells the tale.

I dunno whether you're just trolling or really that gullible, and that's kinda sad, in it's own way, innit ?

-Frem
It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

JONGSSTRAW

Wednesday, August 22, 2007 11:31 AM

All facts butthead.....facts lived through & witnessed in my life....aka real history....and BTW, I wouldn't have written it if I didn't believe it....as opposed to you that I now don't believe to be honest and sincere.

LEADB

Wednesday, August 22, 2007 12:16 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
You actually *bought* that line of crap ?
History ain't ever, never, ever just that black and white simple, and the turf tells the tale.

You seem to be indicating that Israel instigated aggressive wars for the purpose of claiming additional territory. Would you please cite references?

HERO

Wednesday, August 22, 2007 1:00 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
It was like NY, Mass, Penna, Md, Va, NJ, Georgia all attacking Delaware for Christ sakes...

Except Delaware is full of pansies...and lax corporation laws.

I'm just sayin...

H

JONGSSTRAW

Wednesday, August 22, 2007 1:23 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
It was like NY, Mass, Penna, Md, Va, NJ, Georgia all attacking Delaware for Christ sakes...

Except Delaware is full of pansies...and lax corporation laws.

I'm just sayin...H

And you say it so well! lol

FREMDFIRMA

Wednesday, August 22, 2007 8:06 PM

Leadb, just ask Ben-Gurion.. he wasn't shy about his aims, not one bit, and further leaders followed in his footsteps, in short they belive that they are Gods chosen, and that is THEIR land by right, and they mean to take it.

http://www.palestineremembered.com/Acre/Famous-Zionist-Quotes/Story695
.html

You're very unlikely to find a non-partisan source, given how polarised the issue is, however, even pro-zionist orgs make no real secret of the intented agenda.

http://www.zionism-israel.com/maps/Israel_Maps.htm

They might be slicker about it now, but is, and always has been, their intent to take what they think God owes em, and woe unto them who stand in the way.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

LEADB

Thursday, August 23, 2007 12:47 AM

I found the palastineremembered site to be a bit disjointed. However, it sheds some light on the '48 war, which, to be honest, I was not particularly aware. I didn't find much that made sense about the drivers for the '67 war, which is really what I had in mind when I asked the question (not being particularly aware of the '48).

So I went where you love to hate...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6_day_war
Which, to summarize brutally:
Israel claimed to fear an imminent invasion to justify initiating the war against Egypt. Reading between the lines, it is entirely possible the Israeli government pushed the situation toward this end; yet retained 'plausible deny-ability'. Very interesting, certainly not a perspective I've heard before.

FREMDFIRMA

Thursday, August 23, 2007 2:45 AM

Yeah, finding any honest answers to anything related to the whole mess is well nigh impossible, and history is never as clean or clear as some would paint it, specially when you got countless factions, even factions within factions, all with some kind of axe to grind.

The only realistic indicator is the tale of the turf, historical progression maps show a pretty obvious expansion, and in combination with the religious bent and aims of Zionist and Likud Party elements, it's pretty clear that a substantial portion of Isreals government wants that land and means to take it.

Conversely, the Arab folk feel somewhat betrayed, as prior to 1948, they had a long history of offering Jews sanctuary, pre-dating even the Medina Compact, and even from Christian persecutions and pogroms.... to see them in alliance with Christians and killing their people offends them on a deep cultural level cause they take the principle of hospitality and respect for it more seriously than we do - but come to cases in the present day, they're out of patience and would gleefully exterminate the entire nation, a lot of em.

There's no easy answers to be found, nor any innocent players in the game, not after so many years of brutal and bitter conflict marked by some of the ugliest atrocities since WWII by both sides... but in the end, that expansionist agenda is something no one wants to talk about, and no one wants to call them on - and I think it's well past time that someone did.

It's unacceptable, period... and hiding behind the whole were-so-oppressed card doesn't fly with me, not when 30 BILLION of our tax dollars is going into their military budget, nuh-uh.

You got any decent answers, feel free to share, cause I *sure* as hell don't, guy.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

GINOBIFFARONI

Thursday, August 23, 2007 3:54 AM

Another interesting thing to look at, not sure of the accuracy... although much of it did happen

look up google earth, someone put a template in of the location of all the settlements that the Israelis bulldozed from 1948-1960's

After of course they convinced the people living there to leave.....

Not really a looking for peace kind of action.

Arafat took alot of heat later on, making the right for those people and their decedents to move back a sticking point in negotiations and Israel flat out refused, while taking in Jewish immirgrants as quickly as they could...

Immirgration as a form of warfare...

Not since the Americans moved west

FREMDFIRMA

Friday, August 24, 2007 12:16 AM

AP Newswire, Warsaw, September 16, 1941.

No one seems to hear the cries from Warsaw enough to act, despite the reports that talk about imminent economic collapse, dangerous food shortages, total aid dependency and impending humanitarian disaster. Neither the cries nor the reports appear in the headlines or news alerts in our mainstream media. And, while the statistics make shocking reading when they do emerge, it is the cries that we should be hearing because they come from people like us--real flesh and blood people who bleed, feel pain and grieve. They are the cries that give rise to the statistics, the cries of Jews no less human and no less vulnerable than any one of us would be as prisoners of Germany’s merciless occupation.

For all the recent news about the infighting that has gripped internal Jewish politics, particularly between those the German authorities placed as puppet regimes to govern in the ghetto and the resistance fighters, there is no mistaking under whose suffocating matrix of control, the Jews are actually forced to live. Germany has threatened the Jews right to exist on their own land since it was created and it has no more disengaged from Warsaw than it has from Lotz or the other German controlled ghettos. Instead, Germany has made a prison of Warsaw and completely sealed it off from the rest of Poland and the outside world. Deeming it a place too dangerous to visit, Germany likes to portray the Jews as a violent people whose acts of resistance threaten Germany's existence and necessitate the punitive measures that the SS takes against them. However, according to international law, resistance is a legitimate response of an occupied people and collective punishment by an Occupying Power against a civilian population is prohibited. The outrage in all this is the world's acquiescence to Germany's suppression of the Jews and the oppressive force it uses to reduce them to a sub-human existence. This cuts to the core of our humanity and it is simply not enough to say, "there but for the grace of God go I".

Grim as the facts and figures are, they can never make us feel the agony of the mother who does not have a grain of rice left to feed her starving children, the desperation of the father who cannot get his sick child through the closed border crossing for treatment in Egypt, the terror of the child who wets the bed every night wondering if the soldiers will come again to ransack the house, the constant fear of schoolchildren knowing that even school is no haven from soldiers' bullets and mortar fire, the despairing distress of families who are not even given time to save their belongings as tanks come to tear down their homes, the desolation of thousands of people with no jobs to go to, the helplessness of thousands more who have received no wages for months and the wretchedness of the starving families who depend on the jobless and the unpaid. An entire population is in shut down--more than a million stories of agonising pain and overwhelming grief. But, no one is hearing the cries.

The shortages are getting worse by the day. Food is running out, fuel is running out, medicines are running out. There has been almost no electricity since Germany shut down the Warsaw ghetto’s only power source. Without electricity, water cannot be pumped. Without fuel, sewage cannot be pumped and the sewage is spilling out onto the streets contaminating the meagre water supplies left. The stench of open sewage hangs over every neighbourhood increasing the risk of disease and contagion. Running water is a luxury few have now, most having to queue to buy it. Children go out with plastic bottles and buckets to get their rations of water when and if supplies arrive. There is no refrigeration for fresh foods and in any case no fresh food is available. Even a staple like wheat is running out as the 600 tons of wheat needed daily is not getting through the SS controlled commercial crossing gate. Wherever one looks, there are faces of despair, but the very human cries from the depths of all this mise

FREMDFIRMA

Friday, August 24, 2007 12:17 AM

Gee, sounds very familar, doesn't it ?

I've said all I need to, on this one.

-F

FLETCH2

Friday, August 24, 2007 7:17 AM

Well seeing that you took a news story about Gazza and globally replaced the names (Israelis with Germans for example) that is hardly surprising. Few pointers when doing that in future -- proof read. A father in Walsaw is not likely to be bothered about a closed border with Egypt -- bit far for Poles to travel. UN agencies dont exist in 1941 to be concerned about anything.

SIGNYM

Friday, August 24, 2007 3:11 PM

Fletch- when the finger points to the moon the fool looks at the finger. And you have just shown yourself to be a fool.

I have been thinking for quite some time that the conditions of the Palestinians under Israel are almost identical to the conditions of the Jews under Germany. The parallel is almost perfect and we SHOULD be aware of it. The Palestinians have 80% unemployment. They live in a walled-in world of hostile soldiers, destruction of homes, and complete dependency for their very lives on their captors, complete with political infighting and corruption. It is the life of rats being slowly starved to death in a cage. And what does this newscast of Gazza tell us? That Israelis have become the new Nazis

You should read up on the Warsaw Ghetto and then on Gaza and THEN come back and be petty.

---------------------------------
Always look upstream.

FLETCH2

Friday, August 24, 2007 4:14 PM

When someone misrepresents something without saying he's doing it out of irony then he becomes a propagandist.

Of course it doesnt surprise me that you see nothing wrong with misrepresentation.....

SIGNYM

Friday, August 24, 2007 5:06 PM

I didn't find it to be misrepresentation. The facts are very real. I'm certain that Frem left those telltales in on purpose for people to discover, otherwise what would have been the point? A rehash of how awful the Nazis were? Well DUH, I think we all "get" that.

Back in the late 60's there was a Catholic encyclical against abortion. Simply substituting "Vietnam War" for "abortion" made a perfect anti-war argument as well. Because people are very contextual, they sometimes don't understand where their logic or sympathies are leading. Extending previously held viewpoints or sympathies into other areas is an education, not propaganda. It forces people to bang their ideas against their other ideas. It is in fact anti-propaganda, because propaganda wants you to hold ideas without examination.

If our sympathy towards Israel is so weak it cannot stand examination based on facts...a competition of ideas in the rhetorical marketplace... then perhaps it deserves to go the way of all baseless ideas.

---------------------------------
Always look upstream.

JONGSSTRAW

Friday, August 24, 2007 6:58 PM

The Boys From Brazil are alive and well.

RUE

Friday, August 24, 2007 7:24 PM

What does cloning have to do with anything ?
?
?
?

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

JONGSSTRAW

Friday, August 24, 2007 8:16 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
What does cloning have to do with anything ?
?
?
?

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

you like turds in your stew?

FREMDFIRMA

Friday, August 24, 2007 8:54 PM

Ain't it funny how much folk take for granted.

Wonder how far some folk got before going "heyyy?"... just goin right along, brain out of gear like usual, just ACCEPTING the massive abuse which goes on.

I think it'a a goddamn sad set of affairs when horrors like those that shocked a nation during and post WWII, become so commonplace that folks pay only half a mind to em as they skim over it in the daily paper, if they bother to cause it's all just 'boring repetitions of the same" to them.

That we take it for granted is pretty awful, that folks consider it boring instead of an outrage is even more so, compounded by the fact that we have a direct financial stake in making it that way.

Watching folks murmur and shrug at the deaths of palestinians is in my eyes, every bit as much a horror as the killing, when those folks are indirectly financially responsible in part for all that death.

The historical parallels are undeniable, and I really do not care for MY tax dollars, stolen unconstitutionally from my paycheck, under threat of violent force and/or incarceration by the FedGov, are then given to and used for slaughter at the hands of a government I consider to be more or less the Fourth Reich.

WHY that doesn't seem to *bother* anyone else, just irks me, cause I can be a damned coldhearted callous bastard, and *I* find this .. offensive.

I have 2 questions for anyone who disagrees.

#1 - Why is it "evil" when Hitler did it to the Jews, but it's "okay" when the Jews do it to the Palestinians ?

#2 - Why is it necessary to finance and militarily protect the country that does this, in light of their repeated espionage and attacks against us and our allies ?

Cause, yanno... I really wanna know WTF goes on in the heads of people who think this shit is ok.

-Frem
It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

RUE

Friday, August 24, 2007 9:06 PM

Jongsstraw:
The Boys From Brazil are alive and well.

rue:
What does cloning have to do with anything ?
?
?
?

Jong:
you like turds in your stew?

Oh I get it ! You're using a random phrase generator that comes off like a schizophrenic !

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

GINOBIFFARONI

Friday, August 24, 2007 9:10 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
Jongsstraw:
The Boys From Brazil are alive and well.

rue:
What does cloning have to do with anything ?
?
?
?

Jong:
you like turds in your stew?

Oh I get it ! You're using a random phrase generator that comes off like a schizophrenic !

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

My bike is blue

JONGSSTRAW

Saturday, August 25, 2007 12:15 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
What

Sphinchter from hell said what! ROFLMAO!

RUE

Saturday, August 25, 2007 12:25 AM

Jongsstraw:
The Boys From Brazil are alive and well.

rue:
What does cloning have to do with anything ?
?
?
?

Jongsstraw:
you like turds in your stew?

rue:
Oh I get it ! You're using a random phrase generator that comes off like a schizophrenic !

Jongsstraw:
"Originally posted by rue:
What"
Sphinchter from hell said what! ROFLMAO!

rue:
The resident troll is looking to get tagged.

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

JONGSSTRAW

Saturday, August 25, 2007 8:35 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
Jongsstraw:
The Boys From Brazil are alive and well.

rue:
What does cloning have to do with anything ?
?
?
?

rue:
The resident troll is looking to get tagged.

Hey Rue-Sphinchter... So, so sorry that you have big damn mental problems that include your self-imposed, disgusting, and completely absurd egotistical Rue(d) manner, coupled with blind confrontational paranoia, that induce auto-pilot inane attacks against ideas that other people here may have. Contrary to your ultra-narrow, grimly dim-witted views of things in the world, you have no rights or domain over anyone here, and you can and will kiss my ass to atone for your miserable, nasty, argumentative for argumentative's sake asswipe idiot posts of mindless bullshit and hatred of everything and everyone everywhere. I have seen your un-provoked vileness and obtuseness follow other folk's posts here for a long time and it is quite disturbing. You are the farthest thing from a Browncoat as one could possibly be. I have patiently refused to EVER respond to you directly until now, and I will NEVER respond directly to you again, despite your pathetic pleas and desperate beggings by you for responses to your cherry-picked & confrontationally-motivated questions. Just one simple step for you to follow now...
1) Take your head out of your ass for once in your life, and look in the mirror at what stands there...a deeply un-balanced and un-happy thing that is jealous of everyone who is a human being. I'm sure there is some good inside of you somewhere; re-discover what little remains and build on it.

MAZAEN

Saturday, August 25, 2007 12:16 PM

Jongsstraw, you should become an English teacher. That was an amazing lot of long words you used in one sentence.

Quote:
#1 - Why is it "evil" when Hitler did it to the Jews, but it's "okay" when the Jews do it to the Palestinians ?

It's evil for both. The Israeli's attack the Palestinians palestinians bomb the Israeli's and then the Israeli's attack the Palestinians. It continues and continues.....

Quote:
#2 - Why is it necessary to finance and militarily protect the country that does this, in light of their repeated espionage and attacks against us and our allies ?
Quote:

If it wasn't for the financial support, maybe Israel wouldn't have a good defence force, and they would have been invaded by other countries.

This is an unrelated completely interesting thing that happened today; my husband and I ran into a famous person when we were shopping. We were walking in a department shop in the city today and we approached a cash register and assistant to buy a powerboard. Nearby us, the Australian deputy prime minister Mark Vaile, who I'd seen in the media, was talking into his mobile phone saying something about a different floor. I thought, "wow, we passed by him". I said to my husband in whisper, "Isn't that Mark Vaile?" He said "Yes I think it is. Yes it is" And we purchased our powerboard we walked to the elevator, Mr Vaile arrived at the same elevator spot almost at the same time. He paused and we went down the elevator with the deputy prime minister following us 4 steps away down a few flights. Then we got off at the ground floor and he was gone.

My husband said Mark Vaile's wife was probably bossing Mr Vaile on the phone about fathers day shopping. Maybe it was true because it was fathers day shopping week. My husband said to me that even deputy prime ministers were not immune to the wrath of the wife. I thought that was also probably true.. They probably get in trouble for leaving their boots at the door too.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME

SIGNYM

Saturday, August 25, 2007 2:45 PM

COOL!

I've never seen a famous person in real life.

Oh, wait, I have... I saw Robert Redford when they were using our lab as background for filming. I COULD have seen Russel Crowe, but family obligation prevented my from being a extra in our lab. Sigh.

---------------------------------
Always look upstream.