I HATE AMERICA!

POSTED BY: chrisisall
UPDATED: Thursday, February 1, 2007 10:35
VIEWED: 17359
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CHRISISALL

Friday, January 26, 2007 6:54 PM

Yeah, that's right, I said it.

I hate the America that the Bush Administration envisions.
An America that has no problem torturing whom it pleases.
An America that fights wars for economic control and world domination in the guise of national defense.
An America that brands disent as un-patriotic.
An America that allows the President to piss on that "Goddamn piece of paper"- our Constitution.

Luckily, we're not all the way there yet, and by the grace of the more moderate-minded in our government, we never will be.

I love my country and my planet. And America will be all the greater for it's momentary dabbling in the Dark Side that these perverted NeoCons hope to dominate our destiny with.

You've failed, your Highness.

So there, fascists Chrisisall

KHYRON

Friday, January 26, 2007 7:04 PM

TERRORIST!!!!!!!

The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter.

CHRISISALL

Friday, January 26, 2007 7:08 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Khyron:
TERRORIST!!!!!!!

Where??
I'll waste him!

Don't hold with those folk Chrisisall

MAVOURNEEN

Friday, January 26, 2007 7:19 PM

I love America.
I hate the Bush Administration.

Ok, so its not July. A redhead in the snow can dream, can't she?

chrisisall!

CHRISISALL

Friday, January 26, 2007 7:34 PM

That's a nice...um...flag.

Patriotic Chrisisall

ECGORDON

Friday, January 26, 2007 7:42 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
That's a nice...um...flag.

I see the mountains' majesty, but they aren't purple.

I'm with ya Chris. I'm old enough to have had to put up with the rightwinger's slogan of "America Love It Or Leave It" back in the 60s. Well it's my country too, gorramit, and I love her, but I'll be damned if I'll let the fascists bring us down.

DAYVE

Friday, January 26, 2007 7:44 PM

Thanks Chris for saying what I’ve felt for a while now.
The course of our nation under this neo-con administration is one that stands to have negative consequences for generations to come. We need to stop bombing nations into submission just because we don’t agree with their policies or religion, and learn to co-exist with all people. Some folks laugh when I say that this is a fragile planet that we live on. They will just go polluting and wasting valuable resources like there is no tomorrow. Hopefully, we have time to change directions. New leadership with a positive understanding of what must be done to preserve this country can’t come too soon IMHO.

America is a great and terrifying place. We have the potential to do good works but also the capability to destroy the planet.

I hope we all live to see the end of this current nightmare.

SKYWALKEN

Friday, January 26, 2007 8:31 PM

So Chrisisall hates America.

Funny because America hates Chrisisall.

http://www.broadcasting-history.ca/news/unique/am_text.html

SHINYED

Friday, January 26, 2007 8:36 PM

Somehow I'm not surprised that you feel that way considering the anti-American, vile bias that is thrust down your throats every day by your BBC & tabloid rags.

I happen to totally dis-agree with you and the others here who feel as you do....it's really quite a shame too.

Still....10's of thousands of people from all over the world risk everything, sometimes give up everything to come to live in America...why do ya think that is?

And...by the way...the next time some new Hitler-wannabee rises up and threatens to destroy Europe...like Iran's Assholijhad, or some other muslim maniac...don't YOU dare expect any American to give a fuck.

CHRISISALL

Friday, January 26, 2007 8:41 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by ShinyEd:
Somehow I'm not surprised that you feel that way considering the anti-American, vile bias that is thrust down your throats every day by your BBC & tabloid rags.

Two things:
First of all, I'm a citizen of the good old USA, and second, (and pardon my bluntness) either you didn't actually READ my whole first post and you're just going by the thread title, or you're simply a d***head.

Which is it Chrisisall

CHRISISALL

Friday, January 26, 2007 8:44 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Skywalken:
So Chrisisall hates America.

You too, huh? Reading IS a chore for some folk. No, I don't hate America...but I got something recently, and want to spread the sunshine.
Here:

Chrisisall

FREMDFIRMA

Friday, January 26, 2007 8:46 PM

Well, see.. I love America - I just don't think the country we live in qualifies as "America" anymore.

North America, maybe, but the "America" of visionary dreams, innovation and freedoms ?

Not hardly.

Not sure which I hate more, what we have become, or the notion of what we COULD be, and aren't.

-Frem

CHRISISALL

Friday, January 26, 2007 9:01 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:

Not sure which I hate more, what we have become, or the notion of what we COULD be, and aren't.

Frem, I don't think America was EVER the faultless vision we all put up on that pedestal when we were younger. Just think how our politicians ignored stories of atrcities at the beginning of WWII...shouldn't we have jumped in sooner?

It's like in Buffy, Angel and Firefly; the threats from without AND within will always be there, ready to win if we let them. And being imperfect ourselves, we sometimes get led down the wrong path.
But we gotta keep fighting the good fight when we can.

I wanna slay the dragon Chrisisall

CHRISISALL

Friday, January 26, 2007 9:02 PM

Bush caused this double post!

SHINYED

Friday, January 26, 2007 9:06 PM

Chris........I apologize for assuming you were a Brit ( some words spelled as they do such as defence, etc )...OK so just substitute Major Network News for the BBC, and NY & LA Times for tabloid rags.

CHRISISALL

Friday, January 26, 2007 9:11 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Dayve:

I hope we all live to see the end of this current nightmare.

Have faith, my friend. The good peeps in this world have always outnumbered those choosing the ways that harm others...it's just that THEY have a bigger stick.

We must be the termites Chrisisall
(That sounded off even to me, the King of Strange Analogies

)

KHYRON

Friday, January 26, 2007 9:12 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Not sure which I hate more, what we have become, or the notion of what we COULD be, and aren't.

That was nicely said.

In a similar vein, as a non-American I'd say the biggest reason for people outside of America to hate it is because of what America claims to be, but isn't. And this perceived hypocrisy and arrogance is something that goes beyond any administration (although it's influenced by it, strongly so in the case of Bush), it's the absolute belief by many Americans that these claims are true even if refuted by reality, and this is the attitude that the media broadcasts to the outside world.

Even when there is a discussion of all the things that are wrong, there's still this attitude of "As crap as we may be, we're still better than any other country by default. God loves America." that isn't very appealling to non-Americans.

The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter.

CHRISISALL

Friday, January 26, 2007 9:16 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by ShinyEd:
Chris........I apologize for assuming you were a Brit

Hey, no biggie there (I do a mean UK accent, though), just that I don't actually hate America is the point. We're always gonna be on the brink of some madness or other, but being aware of what's happening is key. To deny an infection is to get sicker in many cases.

Again with the analogy Chrisisall

CHRISISALL

Friday, January 26, 2007 9:20 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Khyron:

Even when there is a discussion of all the things that are wrong, there's still this attitude of "As crap as we may be, we're still better than any other country by default. God loves America." that isn't very appealling to the outside world.

Well, we are not better than Holland or England or Australia or Canada or New Zealand or Ireland or Spain or Italy or France....wait...maybe better than France...

Chrisisall

KHYRON

Friday, January 26, 2007 9:32 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
....wait...maybe better than France...

That's something that Americans and most of the rest of the world can agree on.

The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter.

KANEMAN

Friday, January 26, 2007 9:34 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Skywalken:
So Chrisisall hates America.

Funny because America hates Chrisisall.

http://www.broadcasting-history.ca/news/unique/am_text.html

Hi, I'm Kaneman and I approve this message....What a tool Chrisisall is. And that does not depend on what the definition of is..is

AURAPTOR

Friday, January 26, 2007 9:47 PM

Quote:
chrisisall wrote:
Friday, January 26, 2007 08:54
Yeah, that's right, I said it.

I hate the America that the Bush Administration envisions.

I have no idea what that's suppose to mean. I don't think Bush HAS a vision for America, other than to allow many illegals into the country and go half hearted with the war.

Quote:

An America that has no problem torturing whom it pleases.

I have no problem with that, what so ever. But since there's no evidence that's taken place, I can't get upset over it.

Quote:

An America that fights wars for economic control and world domination in the guise of national defense.

Right, because no other country has ever done that, huh? Oh, btw....we're not just fighting for OUR economy, but for pretty much the economies for all other nations.

Quote:

An America that brands disent as un-patriotic.

Hey, if it walks like a duck, sounds like a duck, swims like a duck......DUCK!

Quote:

An America that allows the President to piss on that "Goddamn piece of paper"- our Constitution.

Can't address that, as it's another straw man, but better a commander in chief do what's right to defend his country than to give rights to terrorist. Where are those concentration camps again? Oh, that's right...it was a DEMOCRAT who rounded up AMERICANS and put them in camps. Back in WW2. Don't think W's done anything near that. Not by a long shot.

Quote:
Luckily, we're not all the way there yet, and by the grace of the more moderate-minded in our government, we never will be.

How does one say 'Allah Akbar' with a southern drawl ? Hmmm...

Quote:
I love my country and my planet. And America will be all the greater for it's momentary dabbling in the Dark Side that these perverted NeoCons hope to dominate our destiny with.

We only failed in that we didn't do ENOUGH.

Want TRUE fascism? Just wait until the Dems try to re-inact the 'un'Fairness Doctrine. Kiss your free speech goodbye, if that happens.

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

CHRISISALL

Friday, January 26, 2007 9:50 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by kaneman:

What a tool Chrisisall is.

At least I'm an American tool, you commie.
Here, have an Armstrong wrench up your a*s why dontcha?

Made in America Chrisisall

CHRISISALL

Friday, January 26, 2007 10:22 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Oh, btw....we're not just fighting for OUR economy, but for pretty much the economies for all other nations.

*eyes bulge*
WTF?
You are just full of fear, boy. 911 has worked it's mojo on you severe. Chalk up another scared American for the Terrorists.

They ain't gonna win like that with Chrisisall

CITIZEN

Friday, January 26, 2007 10:27 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
either you didn't actually READ my whole first post and you're just going by the thread title, or you're simply a d***head.

A little from column A, a lot from column B...

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

AURAPTOR

Friday, January 26, 2007 10:31 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Oh, btw....we're not just fighting for OUR economy, but for pretty much the economies for all other nations.
*eyes bulge*
WTF?
You are just full of fear, boy. 911 has worked it's mojo on you severe. Chalk up another scared American for the Terrorists.

They ain't gonna win like that with Chrisisall

Not fear, son. Just clear, cold fact. Look at what Europe pays for a gallon ( 4 litres ) of gas. Think of how much they'd pay if a single Islamic power had control of the oil fields of Iran, Iraq and Kuwait, just to name a few. What of Japan, another nation heavily dependent on outside oil sources. Oil doesn't just go into wealthy American's SUVs , but is used in all types of manufacturing , all over the world. Incase you missed it, al Qaeda declared war on the USA.....back in 1997. It's time to wake up, ' mei mei'.

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

CHRISISALL

Friday, January 26, 2007 10:33 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
A little from column A, a lot from column B...

Yer killin' me C

BWAHAHAHAChrisisall

AURAPTOR

Friday, January 26, 2007 10:34 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Mavourneen:
I love America.
I hate the Bush Administration.

Ok, so its not July. A redhead in the snow can dream, can't she?

A redhead who looks like that can do about what ever the heck she wants.

What was the question ?

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

CITIZEN

Friday, January 26, 2007 10:35 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by ShinyEd:
And...by the way...the next time some new Hitler-wannabee rises up and threatens to destroy Europe...like Iran's Assholijhad, or some other muslim maniac...don't YOU dare expect any American to give a fuck.

Few Americans outside of Franklin Delano Roosevelt gave a fuck last time round, so whats changed exactly?

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

CHRISISALL

Friday, January 26, 2007 10:37 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

Not fear, son. Just clear, cold fact.

What about the clear cold fact that the oil is dwindling as we type? Who gives a good gorram who controls those fields in ten to fifteen years? Conservative estimates have them dry in fourty. You're stuck in the past, little one. The future is less crude.

Energy, made in the USA Chrisisall

FREMDFIRMA

Friday, January 26, 2007 10:51 PM

Tee hee hee

Then allow me to throw this bone in for contention.

If/When the crude dries up, regardless of other alternative energy schemes abounding, most cars are STILL likely to built muchlike they are today, which means Ethanol and/or BioDiesel conversion will be an absolute necessity in order to keep them running long enough to develop true alternatives cause history shows that solutions only occur when a problem is wholly unignorable by the masses.

Which, in turn means securing a supply of fuel.

Tell me folks, WHICH country is the breadbasket of the world, with maximum growing capacity and significant surpluses ?
Hmmm ?

Oh my how the tables will turn, won't they ?

Bear in mind I live just north of an agricultural district who's members already run most of their tractors on homegrown Bio-D, and they're rubbing their hands and chuckling over eventual subsidies.

MineIsAnEvilLaugh Frem.

CHRISISALL

Friday, January 26, 2007 10:56 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:

Oh my how the tables will turn, won't they ?

The Military Industrial Complex won't be pleased; I'll tell them that for nothing.

*snap* Maybe the bread basket can part ways with the rest of the country, and we can go to war with them, then Halliburton will stay on top!

Lame idea man Chrisisall

JORUNE

Friday, January 26, 2007 11:04 PM

Mr Troll, the builders just called. Your bridge is ready for you.

CHRISISALL

Friday, January 26, 2007 11:11 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by jorune:
Mr Troll, the builders just called. Your bridge is ready for you.

I don't know you son (sister), but I'm sure you're very nice. And I'm sure you didn't have time to read all of this, so I'll give you the skinny: I don't hate America, and The Brooklyn Bridge is the only one I would consider living under.

Gotta problem wit dat Chrisisall

JWALDRUP

Friday, January 26, 2007 11:11 PM

Chrisisall, you're killin' me here. Though I have to agree with some of your original statements. I love my country but I'm not exactly proud of it right now.

You can't take my toes from me. -- Joss Whedon

KHYRON

Friday, January 26, 2007 11:38 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by jorune:
Mr Troll, the builders just called. Your bridge is ready for you.

Heh heh, Chris a troll. What will these newbies think of next?

The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter.

CHARLIETHEBLOODY

Saturday, January 27, 2007 12:12 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

Not fear, son. Just clear, cold fact. Look at what Europe pays for a gallon ( 4 litres ) of gas. Think of how much they'd pay if a single Islamic power had control of the oil fields of Iran, Iraq and Kuwait, just to name a few. What of Japan, another nation heavily dependent on outside oil sources.

you do know europe has it's own oil sources? not all the oil in the world is in the middle east and america

so please don't bother fighting on our account, it's nice that you care but it's really not necessary

--------------------------------------
"I'm an artist, with an e and a beret."

KHYRON

Saturday, January 27, 2007 12:39 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by charliethebloody:
you do know europe has it's own oil sources? not all the oil in the world is in the middle east and america

Yeah, but sometimes I wonder if dependence on Russia is such a great alternative, especially after the stunt they pulled a couple of weeks ago.

The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter.

FLETCH2

Saturday, January 27, 2007 12:44 AM

You're thinking about the central Europeans, they're screwed. It's the Brits and the Norwegians that have the oil and natural gas. It's declining rapidly though so the UK is using the oil know how to make off shore wind farms

KHYRON

Saturday, January 27, 2007 12:56 AM

Yeah, but the UK and Norway don't produce nearly enough for the entire continent. As far as I know, most countries in Europe are more dependent on Russia than on Britain or Norway.

Busy looking for charts, but somehow, for a change, Google isn't giving me what I'm looking for.

The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter.

CHRISISALL

Saturday, January 27, 2007 1:04 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by charliethebloody:

so please don't bother fighting on our account, it's nice that you care but it's really not necessary

Call it the Felix Lighter Syndrome.

Alimentary Chrisisall

CHARLIETHEBLOODY

Saturday, January 27, 2007 1:13 AM

yeah, I couldn't find charts, but I know we have some, not a huge amount but the point stands that our petrol prices aren't high because we're dependant on "outside sources" and there's no reason to think they'd go up if we had to start trading more with the middle east. so I'd still rather auraptor wasn't fighting for our 'right' to take it off them...

anyway, don't want to hijack the thread I have to go and get brainwashed by the bbc, toodle-pip

(ooh, hello chris, they thought you were one of us, it must be the incredibly cool spike accent you've been practicing)

--------------------------------------
"I'm an artist, with an e and a beret."

YINYANG

Saturday, January 27, 2007 1:20 AM

<.< >.>

I'm not sure if this is the appropriate place to put this, but I don't want to start a whole 'nother thread. Anybody hear about Operation Imposing Law? You know... O-I-L?

CHRISISALL

Saturday, January 27, 2007 1:29 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by charliethebloody:

(ooh, hello chris, they thought you were one of us, it must be the incredibly cool spike accent you've been practicing)

When they gang up on you it is a bit like Village of the Damned here, all with the Nancy-boy zombie eyes chanting "Bush is on course; You hate your country, blagh blagh..."
A right bunch of wankers lurking about these parts.

Mind yourself, luv.

Chrisissouled

CHARLIETHEBLOODY

Saturday, January 27, 2007 1:32 AM

thats why I never come here but I'm jonesing for the other RW...

--------------------------------------
"I'm an artist, with an e and a beret."

CHRISISALL

Saturday, January 27, 2007 1:36 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by yinyang:

Anybody hear about Operation Imposing Law? You know... O-I-L?

That's so absurd it HAS to be named that just to make jokes concerning it seem lame. It's surreal time, ladies and germs.

OOps, I'm in the Twilight Zone now....

Saw the signpost up ahead Chrisisall

CITIZEN

Saturday, January 27, 2007 1:37 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by charliethebloody:
anyway, don't want to hijack the thread I have to go and get brainwashed by the bbc, toodle-pip

Oh I so wish they were more like FOX news, now when they've got a bias against a country they really don't fuck about. I wonder if any who thinks the BBC has this terrible anti-American bias have ever actually seen any of their news reporting.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

FLETCH2

Saturday, January 27, 2007 1:38 AM

I think your general premise is correct. Europe has a long way to go to become energy independent and that would not be a carbon future. I'm guessing that Nuclear will be back on teh agenda soon enough. Tony's been murmuring about it and even the Germans are thinking about NOT closing their nuclear plants (could be tough though because the Greens have a lot of clout.)

CHRISISALL

Saturday, January 27, 2007 1:40 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by charliethebloody:
I'm jonesing for the other RW...

Yeah, this is the boxing ring, SB is the debate team (with occasional moody outbreaks).

Chrisisall

CHRISISALL

Saturday, January 27, 2007 1:45 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
I wonder if any who thinks the BBC has this terrible anti-American bias have ever actually seen any of their news reporting.

I see bits of BBC World News and except for the occasional too-pretty reporter, they come off as very factual and even non-judgemental, sort of *gasp* professional...

Imagine that Chrisisall

CHARLIETHEBLOODY

Saturday, January 27, 2007 1:56 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
I see bits of BBC World News and except for the occasional too-pretty reporter, they come off as very factual and even non-judgemental, sort of *gasp* professional...

thats what they want you to think, but really they're sending subliminal messages making you anti-american and causing you to question bush and the war, it's sickening really...

--------------------------------------
"I'm an artist, with an e and a beret."

CHRISISALL

Saturday, January 27, 2007 1:57 AM

Damn blip-verts.

Max Chrisisall

CITIZEN

Saturday, January 27, 2007 2:07 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by charliethebloody:
thats what they want you to think, but really they're sending subliminal messages making you anti-american and causing you to question bush and the war, it's sickening really...

I thought the anti-American message was that they didn't cheer lead for the Administration, prefering to present the facts rather than telling people to love George Bush and all who sail on him.

If you're not with them 100%, your against them 100%.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

CHARLIETHEBLOODY

Saturday, January 27, 2007 2:20 AM

well, yeah, and that's just another sneaky underhand tactic to turn you against them... notice how they don't use the pulse-pounding horror-movie basslines either? how are people supposed to know when to be scared? or when to be angry? the complete bastards.

--------------------------------------
"I'm an artist, with an e and a beret."

CITIZEN

Saturday, January 27, 2007 2:30 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by charliethebloody:
well, yeah, and that's just another sneaky underhand tactic to turn you against them... notice how they don't use the pulse-pounding horror-movie basslines either? how are people supposed to know when to be scared? or when to be angry? the complete bastards.

Indeed, if you leave people to make up their own minds they might come to the wrong decision.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

CHRISISALL

Saturday, January 27, 2007 2:56 AM

....i feel like a sheeple.....

Baaaahumbug Chrisisall

YINYANG

Saturday, January 27, 2007 3:15 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
....i feel like a sheeple.....

Did you open the steeple to see all the people? It's cool, man (now this is my kind of RWED)!

Rules: http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=2&t=22892
Voting: http://www.wunschliste.de/index.pl?vote&r=09

CHARLIETHEBLOODY

Saturday, January 27, 2007 3:27 AM

or is it the result of genetic engineering? (no welsh jokes)

--------------------------------------
"I'm an artist, with an e and a beret."

6IXSTRINGJACK

Saturday, January 27, 2007 3:44 AM

Be careful comrade.... their eyes and ears are everywhere. I would sleep with a loaded gun under your pillow.

In People's Republic of America... ATM buttons push you.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

AURAPTOR

Saturday, January 27, 2007 4:19 AM

Quote:
What about the clear cold fact that the oil is dwindling as we type? Who gives a good gorram who controls those fields in ten to fifteen years? Conservative estimates have them dry in fourty. You're stuck in the past, little one. The future is less crude.

Chris, dunno where you're getting your 'estimates' from, but we're at least 100 yrs from having any issues of running out, if not longer. And that's keeping in mind that we've still yet to tap ANWR and all that yummy oil out in the Gulf of Mexico.

Bloody....it's cute that you think Europe is all self sufficient and all. It really is!

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

6IXSTRINGJACK

Saturday, January 27, 2007 4:25 AM

Who really knows how much oil is left and who would tell us if they did?

When I was a freshman in highschool my Physics teacher told us that they were saying there was only about 30 years left of oil reserves left.

By that account, there would only be about 16 years left now.

I've often wondered if somebody hasn't figured out how to synthesize oil and that's what we're using in our cars now and the oil is simply a red herring to globalize the world. Probably far from the truth, but I don't believe that thought any less than the thought that there's 100 years of oil left, or 30, or 16... etc.... etc... etc...

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

TAKEMEFLYING

Saturday, January 27, 2007 4:57 AM

30 or 100 years left, it is still a finite source of energy, folks. As in, there will be no more one of these days, and the day the last drop combusts isn't the moment to start searching for a solution. That there is potentially more oil in some untapped portion of wilderness doesn't change that fact. Now is the time to give a little more support (financial and otherwise) to the development of alternatives - not just because of the instability of the Middle East, but because that is what the future will require. Continuing to pour money into oil related technologies, companies and protections is throwing it out of the windows. Sadly, this administration doesn't take any of these seriously - hey, it isn't happening now or tomorrow, it isn't their problem right? It's a lack of foresight that I find deplorable in those that have been handed the responsibility of guiding the country on a track that will benefit us all in the future as well as the present.

FLETCH2

Saturday, January 27, 2007 8:07 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Who really knows how much oil is left and who would tell us if they did?

When I was a freshman in highschool my Physics teacher told us that they were saying there was only about 30 years left of oil reserves left.

By that account, there would only be about 16 years left now.

Your teacher was right (and wrong.) Back in the 1930's when the American oilfields in the Southwest where openning up they started to do a study on oil production. What they found was that production formed a steep bell curve, so once a field hit maximum output that output begins to fall off sharply. This applied to all fields. It had been thought that inprovements in extraction techniques, especially injecting material into wells to keep the pressure up would fix the issue, instead they found it makes things worse. The faster you pump the stuff the sooner it deminishes. That doesnt mean that one day it just stops but you get deminishing returns on these existing wells and need new wells to make up the shortfall. Since oil companies start with the cheapest to exploit fields first, each successive replacement field becomes increasingly expensive and the cost of oil will rise.

So the short answer is yes, the cheap oil is running out, that's not the same as saying that all the oil is running out.

6IXSTRINGJACK

Saturday, January 27, 2007 9:53 AM

Interesting point.

Another thing to consider is that when my teacher said there were only 30 years of oil left (back in 1994), I'm pretty sure most of us weren't counting on current relations with China and the fact that they will more than likely need much more power output than us in the near future, given their monsterous population.

Incidentally, if we're going to start curbing enviornmental destruction, China would be a good place to start. They don't care at all about any of their employees or their well being there. What would make anybody think they have any higher regard for the environment.

Of course, this is all hearsay, as I've never visited China to verify this myself. Mabye they all get 2 naps a day and those little milk cartons we used to get as kids at school and are paid twice per capita what we do here and our criminal Media is just making up stories here too. Surely it wouldn't be the first time.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

CHARLIETHEBLOODY

Saturday, January 27, 2007 2:59 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

Bloody....it's cute that you think Europe is all self sufficient and all. It really is!

ah, taking it to the extreme of what I said, that's mature. nowhere can be completely self sufficient, but I would like to be part of a continent that could do business for what it needed, rather than making up excuses to go to war over over it because they feel they have a god-given right of access to all the world's resources at low, low prices.

--------------------------------------
"I'm an artist, with an e and a beret."

ZZETTA13

Saturday, January 27, 2007 3:14 PM

As I heard a Russian comedian once say ( or something like it)

" Joo have freedoms of speak in Jamerica. We Jhave freedoms of speak in Russia too. Jyou can say I dislike president Buch in Jamerica, we can say the jsame. I dislike president Buch in Russia too."

Z

FINN MAC CUMHAL

Saturday, January 27, 2007 4:04 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
I've often wondered if somebody hasn't figured out how to synthesize oil and that's what we're using in our cars now and the oil is simply a red herring to globalize the world. Probably far from the truth, but I don't believe that thought any less than the thought that there's 100 years of oil left, or 30, or 16... etc.... etc... etc...

We can synthesize many petroleum products including gasoline. We can generate gasoline from vegetable oil or coal, for instance. And there are gasoline substitutes, other volatile fluid compound that can be extracted from natural resources that a combustion engine will or can be made to run on. The reason why we use petroleum is because it’s cheap.

And for a hundred years we’ve been told that we were going to run out a gasoline in x number of years, with x usually being some relatively small number like 10-30. Obviously those statistics have never been able to pin down the gasoline crisis as well as it may have been thought, and the reasons for that is in how we characterize what we know, or rather what we don’t know. We assume the number of known oil deposits is all there is, but we’ve been finding new deposits throughout the last century. We assume that our technology will remain constant in terms of the oil problem, and that also has not been true. As our technology and understanding increases we become better at extracting and refining petroleum from existing sources and better at finding new sources.

It’s also important to understand that the oil crisis, much like the global warming crisis, is only certain in the minds of the media, the scientists for the most part understand these limitations to our knowledge. Where it gets screwed up is when the media gets hold of it and starts telling people that the USGS or the department of the interior says we are going to run out of oil in ten years. That’s probably not what they said, but that might have been as much as a journalist with no qualified education of the issue could understand. The same thing occurs with global warming. The Guardian reports that the polar ice caps are melting, but in reality the Antarctic ice cap is actually growing.

Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

CARTOON

Saturday, January 27, 2007 4:05 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Bloody....it's cute that you think Europe is all self sufficient and all. It really is!

Come on, AURaptor. Give some credit where credit is due. The Europeans did manage to keep themselves from being forced to speak German in the 40's and Russian in the 50's, 60's, 70's and 80's all by themselves. They also managed to completely rebuild their destroyed infrastructure and feed the tens of millions of their own homeless refugees immediately following that minor inconvenience they'd experienced with that Austrian fellow.

No, wait. I'm sorry, I'm getting their delusions mixed up with reality. I guess you were correct after all.

P.S. America could totally get away from its reliance on foreign sources of fuel if only our own Congress would let us tap the sources we already have right here, in own country.

FREMDFIRMA

Saturday, January 27, 2007 4:10 PM

Folks forget most plastic is also petrol-based.

The lack of plastic would hurt us as a society far more than a lack of fuel, in all honesty.

-F

CITIZEN

Saturday, January 27, 2007 4:11 PM

Charlie.

Please don't feed the trolls.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

CHARLIETHEBLOODY

Saturday, January 27, 2007 4:25 PM

oh but they're so witty, how will I ever resist

--------------------------------------
"I'm an artist, with an e and a beret."

CITIZEN

Saturday, January 27, 2007 4:38 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by charliethebloody:
oh but they're so witty, how will I ever resist

Well, if you'd like a slightly more engaging pursuit that doesn't harm one's grey matter quite so much, allow me to demonstrate:

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

CHARLIETHEBLOODY

Saturday, January 27, 2007 4:39 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
The lack of plastic would hurt us as a society far more than a lack of fuel, in all honesty.

don't know about more than lack of fuel, but it is important, that's why recycling needs to be much more efficient and more universal...

--------------------------------------
"I'm an artist, with an e and a beret."

CHARLIETHEBLOODY

Saturday, January 27, 2007 4:42 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
Well, if you'd like a slightly more engaging pursuit that doesn't harm one's grey matter quite so much, allow me to demonstrate:

ooh, that does look like more fun, and you get much more sense out of the wall...

*practices*

--------------------------------------
"I'm an artist, with an e and a beret."

CHRISISALL

Saturday, January 27, 2007 4:48 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
The Guardian reports that the polar ice caps are melting, but in reality the Antarctic ice cap is actually growing.

So the northern cap is melting, sending more moisture into the atmo where it comes down as snow in Antactica...and a global warming trend, wholely natural or not, will cause a minor ice age...seems to be on track with what I've been saying for a while now...parka companies, invest in parka companies.

Seems fine on the exterior, right? Lose ice at the top and gain it at the bottom- sea level remains constant, right? Then why is sea level increasing at other points on Earth? Know why Finn? No, you don't, but there are theories. Lots. The only facts are what's happening- what's measureable- right now. We're in for a shake up, and middle eastern oil won't last forever, IMO not through the new ice age we'll be dealing with. You and I might even see it begin...do you ski?

Chrisisall

CHRISISALL

Saturday, January 27, 2007 4:51 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Fletch2:

So the short answer is yes, the cheap oil is running out, that's not the same as saying that all the oil is running out.

Exactly.

Chrisisall

FINN MAC CUMHAL

Saturday, January 27, 2007 5:09 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
You and I might even see it begin...do you ski?

Bring it on, buddy. Bring It On.

I just bought a new wool overcoat and a clovis point spear; I’m ready for the ice age.

The sea level rise is usually not attributed to melting ice, though. It’s a generally seen as a result of thermal expansion.

Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

CHRISISALL

Saturday, January 27, 2007 5:16 PM

Quote:

Bring it on, buddy. Bring It On. I just bought a new wool overcoat and a clovis point spear; I’m ready for the ice age.

Quote:

The sea level rise is usually not attributed to melting ice, though. It’s a generally seen as a result of thermal expansion.

Quote:
For a global mean 3.0°C (1.5°C, 4.5°C) temperature rise by 2050 (and with the spatial distribution predicted by three climate models), we estimate the component of sea level rise that is caused by thermal expansion to be about 0.2 to 0.3 m (0.1 m, 0.4 m) by 2050.

Uhhhh, so....more water, basically...

Roads Scholar Chrisisall

FINN MAC CUMHAL

Saturday, January 27, 2007 5:19 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Uhhhh, so....more water, basically...

I like water. I feel that it enhances the natural flavor of my tea.

Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

CHARLIETHEBLOODY

Saturday, January 27, 2007 5:24 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:

The sea level rise is usually not attributed to melting ice, though. It’s a generally seen as a result of thermal expansion.

I've always heard it attributed to melting ice, not just polar ice caps, glaciers too, but always connected to the water transfering from storage in ice to the sea.

I wouldn't have thought expansion would have that much effect, but I don't know that much about it, I'd be interested to see some links to stuff on that.

Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
For a global mean 3.0°C (1.5°C, 4.5°C) temperature rise by 2050 (and with the spatial distribution predicted by three climate models), we estimate the component of sea level rise that is caused by thermal expansion to be about 0.2 to 0.3 m (0.1 m, 0.4 m) by 2050.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

hmmm, ok, that's quite a lot, I'm going to look for figures for ice melting...

--------------------------------------
"I'm an artist, with an e and a beret."

CHRISISALL

Saturday, January 27, 2007 5:47 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by charliethebloody:

hmmm, ok, that's quite a lot, I'm going to look for figures for ice melting...

Like most models, it assumes a great deal...and also serves itself and it's creators. I'm of the belief that there is generally no ONE cause of things, just as there is no ONE answer to things.

I believe the thawing ice contributes to the mass of the unfrozen ocean, as well as some degree of de-salization, and thermal expansion surely plays into it as well IMO.

Oh, he thinks he's a scientist now, does he Chrisisall

FINN MAC CUMHAL

Saturday, January 27, 2007 6:48 PM

I’ll address the point of this thread by responding to a post from another thread:

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
I tend also to spew venom about how I should exersize more than I do, eat better, write this graphic novel I've been putting off, and remember to take my vitamins on a regular basis, not just when the mood strikes. Is this being 'anti-me'?

A lot of people are anti-themselves. They may not perceive it that way, at least until they are hospitalized for stress, depression, dependency, anorexia or gross obesity. Many people are far too critical of themselves, often seeing themselves stridently as the sole villain in their lives and solely responsible for their failures while unwilling to also recognize their strengths. Many Americans are often far too critical of the US, as well, holding a similarly uncompromising one-sided view of America. Learning to accept oneself and finding positive ways of encouraging one’s strengths and overcoming one’s weaknesses is vital to a healthy lifestyle and a similar argument could be made about a healthy political thought and discourse. When you view yourself with loathing, you are less likely to appreciate the strengths that you need to succeed and less likely to make the compromises or take the steps needed for that success, and as such you fail. Similarly, when you are unable to distinguish an American president from a Middle Eastern fascist tyrant, you are not healthy either. If enough people learn to hate America because of bigoted and one-sided political rhetoric instead of a reasoned and educated assessment of America’s successes and failures and who fail to appreciate the strengths of the American political system people and philosophy while overemphasizing, exaggerating or distorting it’s faults for their own political hatreds or agendas, then we may very well fail as a nation, not because we are what some claim, but because we believed it.

The more negative and unreasonable we become, the more likely that will reflect the attitudes of our government.

Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

FLETCH2

Saturday, January 27, 2007 7:20 PM

Just an aside, the things people abroad admired about America was it's self confidence and "can-do" attitude. The general consensus from the 1920's until a few years ago was that an America engagged with the world makes for a better world, not so much due to hard power (though that's handy) but the fact that America could get things done. In addition, at least in the early years the US was seen as an honest broker because it didn't have a 1000 year history of animosity to its neighbours.

Has that changed? I think it has in part because even before 9/11 the world was begining to understand that the US had its own agenda. It was never the case that the US didn't have its own agenda but from WW2 though the cold war it was the same agenda as much of the free world (except France.) Once the cold war ended country's interests diversified and America became both ally and rival to a lot of nations. I suspect that as things go on and climate change and competition for resources become larger issues the distance between the US and the rest of the industrialised world will continue. What's interesting is the continued interdependence between the US and China. Perhaps the Anglo-Sino Alliance wasn't as far fetched an idea as we thought?

FINN MAC CUMHAL

Saturday, January 27, 2007 7:43 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by charliethebloody:
I wouldn't have thought expansion would have that much effect, but I don't know that much about it, I'd be interested to see some links to stuff on that.

As in most areas of global warming the science goes back and forth on this. I don’t know if I can give you links but here are some sources you may want to investigate.

Cabanes, et al. says that the increase in global mean sea level is fully thermosteric, meaning it is fully explained by thermal expansion.

Cabanes, C., A. Cazenave, C. 2004. Sea Level Rise During Past 40 Years Determined from Satellite and in Situ Observations. Science, 294, 840-842.

On the other hand, Alix Lombard says that the GMSL is not fully thermosteric.

Lombard, A., Cazenave, A, Letraon, P. 2003. Contribution of Thermal Expansion to Observed Sea Level Rise During the Past Decade. American Geophysical Union, Fall Meeting 2003

Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

JORUNE

Sunday, January 28, 2007 11:12 AM

That reminds of a political joke about Margaret Thatcher from the 80's.

'Three Diplomats are arguing about their countries,

In Russia, a man had his arm cut off by a hay thrashing machine. Thanks to Soviet Science he was looking for work 20 days later.

In America, a man had his arm cut off in a factory. Thanks to American Medicine he was looking for work 10 days later.

In Britain, a women moved into No 10 Downing Street and thanks to British Politics everyone was looking was work afterwards'.

JORUNE

Sunday, January 28, 2007 11:30 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Fletch2:
Just an aside, the things people abroad admired about America was it's self confidence and "can-do" attitude. The general consensus from the 1920's until a few years ago was that an America engagged with the world makes for a better world, not so much due to hard power (though that's handy) but the fact that America could get things done. In addition, at least in the early years the US was seen as an honest broker because it didn't have a 1000 year history of animosity to its neighbours.

Has that changed? I think it has in part because even before 9/11 the world was begining to understand that the US had its own agenda. It was never the case that the US didn't have its own agenda but from WW2 though the cold war it was the same agenda as much of the free world (except France.) Once the cold war ended country's interests diversified and America became both ally and rival to a lot of nations. I suspect that as things go on and climate change and competition for resources become larger issues the distance between the US and the rest of the industrialised world will continue. What's interesting is the continued interdependence between the US and China. Perhaps the Anglo-Sino Alliance wasn't as far fetched an idea as we thought?

I like your reasoning, I think the Bush Presidency has done more to sour the perceptions of America than any other event in history that I can recall. At least during Vietnam there was a common feeling that parts of the US were more socially advanced than elsewhere in the world. I don't think that common feeling exists anymore.

In Europe, we are going through a mass migration of people. Hundreds of thousands of Eastern Europeans have been leaving their homelands and going to the west, primarily the UK and Germany. In the 1800's and early 1900's they would have passed these imperial powers and taken the long boat to North America. I do not know if this is occuring as I have seen no media reports of it. Please tell me if it is happening.

As for Anglo-Sino co-operation that's probably going to more and more likely, especially as China holds lots and lots of US Treasury bonds. It is ironic that the US war on terror is being funded by a communist country.

JORUNE

Sunday, January 28, 2007 11:42 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by jorune:
Mr Troll, the builders just called. Your bridge is ready for you.
I don't know you son (sister), but I'm sure you're very nice. And I'm sure you didn't have time to read all of this, so I'll give you the skinny: I don't hate America, and The Brooklyn Bridge is the only one I would consider living under.

Gotta problem wit dat Chrisisall

Curse my sudden but inevitable betrayal, I was intending to refer to ShinyEd's original rambling but my goofing of the quote button meant it didn't happen.

I agree with your sentiment, when you consider how the US treats its close allies, Canada with Ahar, UK with Gitmo detainees, it's no wonder that the rest of the world sees the US as a big bully.

KHYRON

Sunday, January 28, 2007 12:58 PM

Looks like you're not the only one who HATES America, Chris. Just look at all those unpatriotic, terrorist-supporting cowards who protested in Washington. Don't they realize that the war is all for their benefit, so that they don't have to live in constant fear of dangers from the outside? Oh, wait...

The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter.

CHRISISALL

Sunday, January 28, 2007 5:08 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
Many people are far too critical of themselves, often seeing themselves stridently as the sole villain in their lives and solely responsible for their failures while unwilling to also recognize their strengths.

In my experience, most who are critical are critical of others, making all their problems caused by someone else while taking responsibility off themselves. While it might even be somewhat true, it limits personal power too, and restricts the person's ability to grow and adapt. And where it's not true, it's just a reason to do nothing while basking in learned helplessness. When critical of themselves, peeps tend to over do it, as you say. We need moderation in ALL things.

Quote:
Many Americans are often far too critical of the US, as well, holding a similarly uncompromising one-sided view of America. Learning to accept oneself and finding positive ways of encouraging one’s strengths and overcoming one’s weaknesses is vital to a healthy lifestyle and a similar argument could be made about a healthy political thought and discourse.

Very well put.

Quote:
When you view yourself with loathing, you are less likely to appreciate the strengths that you need to succeed and less likely to make the compromises or take the steps needed for that success, and as such you fail. Similarly, when you are unable to distinguish an American president from a Middle Eastern fascist tyrant, you are not healthy either.

Agreed, there is too much of the "Bush is evil" rhetoric, although it comes from a place of disgust with the idea that peoples lives are a military commodity, like bullets. Not all politicians believe this, but Bush talks endlessly about the 'price we have to pay for freedom', and we all know now that that's not what it's all about, hence the vitriol.

Quote:
...we may very well fail as a nation, not because we are what some claim, but because we believed it.

If you call my mom a whore...I will dismiss you with a laugh and a fart in your general direction.
If you call my mom a whore, and she indeed was walking the streets once (or presently), it might make me very upset...
Get my point?

Finn, with the making me think again...Chrisisall

FREMDFIRMA

Sunday, January 28, 2007 7:05 PM

Sayeth Cartroll -

Quote:
that minor inconvenience they'd experienced with that Austrian fellow.

Oh, you mean that Austrian fellow who's rise to power and military machine were in great part financed an assisted by....
Prescott Bush ?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1312540,00.html

The apple never does fall far from the tree, does it now ?

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history are doomed to endlessly repeat it.

CHRISISALL

Monday, January 29, 2007 4:44 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Khyron:
Looks like you're not the only one who HATES America, Chris. Just look at all those unpatriotic, terrorist-supporting cowards who protested in Washington. Don't they realize that the war is all for their benefit, so that they don't have to live in constant fear of dangers from the outside?

Khyron, you're stealing my snark!!!!

Jump the snark Chrisisall

ANTIMASON

Monday, January 29, 2007 6:16 PM

there's probably some government propagandist troll agent, sitting in a cubicle, serfing this board.. cataloging comments completely out of context, but none the less data-mining; its an interesting thing, to the 'state' these comments are probably considered "hate speech", anti-American, and 'terror'-izing, but the concern being expressed is ultimately negative undercurrents of (any) society which need to be corrected. if we are not entitled to constructive dissent, without being labeled (at the far political extreme) a terrorist enemy combatant(2006 commissions act), then we are not a legitimate republic, likewise not a fare representation of the collective will of the masses. i think the real concern is government not representing the people, and the 'people' not being informed well enough to represent themselves.. which is what it comes down to; some people lack the tools to recognize that media and government were hijacked, and are waging war on our minds, to turn us into NWO slaves. so we more correctly hate American government(the central bankers/secret societies), and less the avg American, who is under the dissillusion and misguidement of luciferian puppetmasters subversively attaining their secular humanist one world government.

HERO

Monday, January 29, 2007 8:08 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
I hate the America that the Bush Administration envisions.
An America that has no problem torturing whom it pleases.
An America that fights wars for economic control and world domination in the guise of national defense.
An America that brands disent as un-patriotic.
An America that allows the President to piss on that "Goddamn piece of paper"- our Constitution.

Probably not a fan of Lincoln, Roosevelt, or any other American President who has to understand that their oath is to "preserve, protect and defend" the Constitution, not to uphold it.

Lincoln suspended Constitutional rights for millions of Americans, fought an illegal war, and placed the Supreme Court under house arrest. Roosevelt censored the media, restricted commerce, and imprisoned without trial hundreds of thousands. One Republican, one Democrat. The exigencies of war require many sacrifices, including a little inconveniance of liberty today to ensure that liberty is around for all the tomorrows.

I think the real problem is that your all about hate. Hating comes easy to you. You hate what Bush stands for so you hate what he does and you hate those who support him and you hate the good that comes from it and you hate the unfortunate and unintended bad that it causes. You hate every job he created, hate every free vote cast for Bush in America and and free vote cast by Iraqis, Afgans, Kurds, and anyone else who took to liberty from our example or opportunity. You hate every Afgan female freed from oppression, every educated Afgan girl, every drop of Iraqi oil, every mile of new road, every dollar sent, every dollar spent, every person, place, thing, or idea fostered by the American government under President Bush. If we cured cancer tomorrow you'd curse the cure. If we killed Bin Ladden, you weep for his soul. If, God forbid, they killed our President, you'd run cheering into the streets just as you smile for every dead soldier killed serving the America your hate has poisoned you against.

You are a shell empty of hope, devoid of inspiration, and so desperate for misery that you'd crawl through the mud choosing to believe the worst of others to justify the worst you've found in yourself. Shame on you.

H

RUE

Monday, January 29, 2007 8:11 PM

Was the previous post fueled by alcohol?

RUE

Monday, January 29, 2007 8:16 PM

I think most people would agree they love America, or at least the idea of America. So it comes down to - what do you disagree with?

There is the pro-Bush camp that apparently thinks everything is A-OK, never been better. And that camp is also rather deluded in thinking that everything is about Bush, not only in their minds but in every one else's.

So, if we are to turn this into a referendum on Bush, I'd like to ask the pro-Bush camp to explain in detail what Bush has done well.

SHINYED

Monday, January 29, 2007 8:30 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
I hate the America that the Bush Administration envisions.
An America that has no problem torturing whom it pleases.
An America that fights wars for economic control and world domination in the guise of national defense.
An America that brands disent as un-patriotic.
An America that allows the President to piss on that "Goddamn piece of paper"- our Constitution.

Probably not a fan of Lincoln, Roosevelt, or any other American President who has to understand that their oath is to "preserve, protect and defend" the Constitution, not to uphold it.

Lincoln suspended Constitutional rights for millions of Americans, fought an illegal war, and placed the Supreme Court under house arrest. Roosevelt censored the media, restricted commerce, and imprisoned without trial hundreds of thousands. One Republican, one Democrat. The exigencies of war require many sacrifices, including a little inconveniance of liberty today to ensure that liberty is around for all the tomorrows.

I think the real problem is that your all about hate. Hating comes easy to you. You hate what Bush stands for so you hate what he does and you hate those who support him and you hate the good that comes from it and you hate the unfortunate and unintended bad that it causes. You hate every job he created, hate every free vote cast for Bush in America and and free vote cast by Iraqis, Afgans, Kurds, and anyone else who took to liberty from our example or opportunity. You hate every Afgan female freed from oppression, every educated Afgan girl, every drop of Iraqi oil, every mile of new road, every dollar sent, every dollar spent, every person, place, thing, or idea fostered by the American government under President Bush. If we cured cancer tomorrow you'd curse the cure. If we killed Bin Ladden, you weep for his soul. If, God forbid, they killed our President, you'd run cheering into the streets just as you smile for every dead soldier killed serving the America your hate has poisoned you against.

You are a shell empty of hope, devoid of inspiration, and so desperate for misery that you'd crawl through the mud choosing to believe the worst of others to justify the worst you've found in yourself. Shame on you.
H

Hero.....very nice post! ..How refeshing to read comments from someone here that doesn't hate his country...also from someone that has a nice historical perspective of what previous Presidents have done in times of war and crisis.
Most of the young punks here have been so brainwashed by their ex-hippie, dope-smoking teachers & professors, and mind-controlled up their asses through George Soros's myriad of anti-American websites ( disguised as political fund raisers ) that they don't realize how much they will regret their anti-Americanism someday when they grow up.

RUE

Monday, January 29, 2007 8:36 PM

Was this post fueled by alcohol?

I'm trying to get a read on how many are using alternative energy.

SHINYED

Monday, January 29, 2007 8:44 PM

THIS POST ABOVE MINE WAS WRITTEN BY A SMART-ASSED, KNOW-IT-ALL LITTLE PUNK PUKE!

THIS RUTTING PIECE OF GO SE HAS TO MOCK AND NIT-PICK EVERYONE AT FFF'S POSTS.....RUTTING ASSHOLE!

RUE

Monday, January 29, 2007 8:49 PM

Sorry you couldn't answer the question I posted:

"So, if we are to turn this into a referendum on Bush, I'd like to ask the pro-Bush camp to explain in detail what Bush has done well."

CHRISISALL

Monday, January 29, 2007 8:49 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:

You hate every job he created, hate every free vote cast for Bush in America and and free vote cast by Iraqis, Afgans, Kurds, and anyone else who took to liberty from our example or opportunity. You hate every Afgan female freed from oppression, every educated Afgan girl, every drop of Iraqi oil, every mile of new road, every dollar sent, every dollar spent, every person, place, thing, or idea fostered by the American government under President Bush. If we cured cancer tomorrow you'd curse the cure. If we killed Bin Ladden, you weep for his soul. If, God forbid, they killed our President, you'd run cheering into the streets just as you smile for every dead soldier killed serving the America your hate has poisoned you against.

Definition of 'Straw Man': see above.

You obviously don't actually read my posts. And that is alllll right. You are a working lawyer, so the time you don't spend to comprehend all that I say is likely spent pouring over your cases, and I take that as a good thing that creates job security for you. Who needs to REALLY understand anyone in here, anyway? It don't pay the bills....

"I love my country..." goes over peeps heads, I guess Chrisisall

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