Round 3: 'Tolerance' on American Universities???
POSTED BY: cartoon
UPDATED: Saturday, December 16, 2006 08:38
VIEWED: 5862
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I was just wondering why you seem to think the teaching of evolution is an anti-Xtian bias.
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And I wanted to separately ask this:
"In the event anyone seems to have trouble comprehending this -- putting a cross on government-owned property is not "compelling" anyone to "frequent or support" the religion from which the symbol is derived. Nor is putting a cross on government-owned property "Congress establishing a religion."
The very fact that anyone would (in any way) construe it to mean such, underscores the level of bias toward (against ?) Christianity."
How would you feel if your tax dollars were spent putting Islamic symbols on public buildings INSTEAD of Xtian ones?
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Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
How would you feel if your tax dollars were spent putting Islamic symbols on public buildings INSTEAD of Xtian ones?
My tax dollars are being spent on a lot of things for which I do not approve. That's the American way.
In specific answer to your question, though, if there were an Islamic building which came into the possession of our government (federal, state or local), I would not expect them to remove the objects typifying Islam which were contained within.
I also assume that "public" libraries buy Korans and other books about Islam, as well as those pertaining to every type of religion. They also probably buy a lot of (what I would consider to be) smut.
So, as I said, the government is never going to spend our money the way we'd like. It's part of the cost of freedom.
Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
I was just wondering why you seem to think the teaching of evolution is an anti-Xtian bias.
I haven't.
While I personally do not believe in evolution (and, as such do not believe it should be taught as "undeniable fact" in our schools), I do not see it as bias against Christianity -- just false.
People have the right to be wrong, but not to force others to be wrong with them.
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Quote:except that TAX DOLLARS are used to purchase or build and maintain buildings. You know, buildings aren't "free". They require utilities, cleaning, maintenance and repair, and parking facilities. They often require bonds for construction, which includes building costs and interest. They may even represent lost revenue if another (more useful) building might be put in its place. It would be interesting to see HOW MUCH the Wren building costs each year (tax dollars).
In the event anyone seems to have trouble comprehending this -- putting a cross on government-owned property is not "compelling" anyone to "frequent or support" the religion from which the symbol is derived.
Quote:YOUR insistence that this is a Christian building puts in in DIRECT collision with the the State Constitution. Under YOUR rubric, W&M would be forced to sell it to a private party. Now, if you were to claim this is a HISTORIC building... a museum piece... then perhaps a cross might belong. But you're not making this claim, and this building is clearly being used as a meeting place by various groups not as a historical display.
Why would anyone be "offended" at finding objects typifying Christianity in building specifically built for a Christian purpose -- which is what a "chapel" is? ... The soul purpose of a Christian chapel is for Christian assembly...a Christian chapel for Christian assembly.
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Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.
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Quote:
Originally posted by cartoon:
As I've said elsewhere, if those who believe in evolution are correct, and we are the product of nothing, time and chance, then what we do has no eternal consequence, and once we die, who cares what we thought, said or did. If, however, evolutionists are incorrect, and we were created by a Creator for a specific purpose (and we have not, as individuals met that Creator's criteria for our existence), then there are going to be a whole lot of very, very, very surprised and disappointed people when they die.
False choices. Evolution has nothing whatsoever to say about the existance or nonexistance of a creator. It attempts to explain the how, not the why. The two are not mutually exclusive. Unless one is married to the particular notion that the Earth is 6000 years old and Adam & Eve rode dinosaurs to church on Sunday.
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Quote:I believe this is also a logical fallacy, believe what I believe because if you don't and I'm right you lose, but if your right no one wins.
Originally posted by Eric:Quote:
Originally posted by cartoon:
As I've said elsewhere, if those who believe in evolution are correct, and we are the product of nothing, time and chance, then what we do has no eternal consequence, and once we die, who cares what we thought, said or did. If, however, evolutionists are incorrect, and we were created by a Creator for a specific purpose (and we have not, as individuals met that Creator's criteria for our existence), then there are going to be a whole lot of very, very, very surprised and disappointed people when they die.
False choices. Evolution has nothing whatsoever to say about the existance or nonexistance of a creator. It attempts to explain the how, not the why. The two are not mutually exclusive. Unless one is married to the particular notion that the Earth is 6000 years old and Adam & Eve rode dinosaurs to church on Sunday.
It's an argument attempted by all truely stupid people. Fact is any God worth believing in wouldn't condemn on their inabillity to spread their word.
The thing that fanatics like Cartoon miss is that some people are actually interested in the truth, whatever that maybe, not just getting a green light on any evil they wish to perpetrate on their fellow man.
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Eric:
False choices. Evolution has nothing whatsoever to say about the existance or nonexistance of a creator. It attempts to explain the how, not the why. The two are not mutually exclusive.
Hi, Eric.
Well, I cannot speak for evolutionists, but from my understanding, I'm fairly certain that most of them (at least of those who've voiced opinions in this forum) believe that everything came from nothing, by accident (apart from design), over a great period of time. That seems to rule out a Creator/Intelligent Designer/God by their own definition.
Although, if I'm incorrectly voicing their position, I'm sure they'll correct me.
Quote:
Originally posted by Signym:
except that TAX DOLLARS are used to purchase or build and maintain buildings
You know, if you actually stopped loathing Christians long enough to remove the blinders, you may actually see how ridiculous your complaining over the spending of tax dollars for the maintenance of a structure built initially for Christian purposes really sounds. Particularly, as I stated above, that our tax dollars also (undoubtedly) purchase Bibles, Korans, and other books related to every belief system under the sun -- plus a few.
These anti-Christian protests are ridiculous, and prove my initial assertion about the bias and hatred (and apparently fear) directed towards/at Christians in this country. Apparently, some people will never be happy until every last vestige of Christianity is purged from the land. I'm through beating this dead horse.
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Quote:
Originally posted by cartoon:
Well, I cannot speak for evolutionists, but from my understanding, I'm fairly certain that most of them (at least of those who've voiced opinions in this forum) believe that everything came from nothing, by accident (apart from design), over a great period of time. That seems to rule out a Creator/Intelligent Designer/God by their own definition.
Here's something to chew on. In an infinite universe, anything that has a nonzero chance of happening MUST eventually happen, given enough time. Accident and design ultimately converge to the same outcome. If a creator set the universe in motion then let it go, anything that happens afterward is by design, but you'd never know it. Evolution does not rule out the possiblity that the whole process was set in motion deliberately, it just doesn't consider the question at all, not the least because its not disprovable. Some people who accept evolutionary theory may also reject the concept of a creator, but that's not an integral feature of evolution.
D'OH, NOT ANOTHER EVOLUTION THREAD! Ignore everything above...
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Quote:I'm not worried about spending money on building 'initally' built for Xtian purposes. But it is very clear that neither the Federal government nor the State of Virginia can spend tax dollars maintaining a structure AS an Xtian chapel. Just as they can not maintain a building as a mosque, or as any other house of religion. Is that clear now?
You know, if you actually stopped loathing Christians long enough to remove the blinders, you may actually see how ridiculous your complaining over the spending of tax dollars for the maintenance of a structure built initially for Christian purposes really sounds.
Quote:It's not fear or hatred. I'm being very Jeffersonian about the whole thing. And I would apply the same standard to ANY religion, not just Xtian.
These anti-Christian protests are ridiculous, and prove my initial assertion about the bias and hatred (and apparently fear) directed towards/at Christians in this country.
Quote:Are you saying that suddenly there is a shortage of churches? That angel ornamanents are missing from the stores? Thet people are forbidden from putting stars on their trees, and creches on the mantle? Puhleez! The only places where religion should be purged from is government. Feel free to follow Christ- or whomever- as long as you don't violate the laws of the land.
Apparently, some people will never be happy until every last vestige of Christianity is purged from the land.
Quote:No doubt you'll continue to feel aggrieved and "picked on" altho you really shouldn't.
I'm through beating this dead horse.
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Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.
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"Apparently, some people will never be happy until every last vestige of Christianity is purged from the land."
I don't see anyone attemping to purge every last vesitge of Xtianity from the land. Just from government budgets.
Do you cognate the difference?
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