So where is the opposition to Bush anyway ?
POSTED BY: GinoBiffaroni
UPDATED: Wednesday, September 14, 2005 02:11
VIEWED: 10908
PAGE 13 of 13
Man, did this thread go off topic or what? I would hope that the "opposition" are respectfully holding back while the administration has time to deal with the emergency. On the other hand, maybe they're gun shy, like a fighter afraid to through a jab because he knows a tremendous counter punch will follow.
Anyways after reading most of the posts I though I'd offer up three time lines. One from each side and the third from a neutral party.
http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2005/09/04/katrina-response-time
line/
http://www.thinkprogress.org/katrina-timeline
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_Hurricane_Katrina
All three time lines show that officials on all levels were acting. State of Emergencies for Louisiana were declared on the both the state and federal level, right after Katrina hit Florida.
All three also show a lot of mistakes. The three that stick out for me are:
1) Nagin didn make the evacuation mandanatory until Sunday.
2) Inspite of declaring an emergency, the President remained on vacation until after the hurricane was over.
3) The Bataan was available with 600 hospital beds and significant water treatment capabilities but was never mobilized.
Seems like the only ones really on the ball were the Coast Guard and the National Weather Service.
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Quote:
Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:
But the hospitals were not evacuated...
Usually this is done first, well ahead of the main evacuation, and to other hospitals out of the dangerzone... as some of these people would require constant care...
Seniors homes would be a close second in priority... I don't know if it is true, but I did read an account of such a home where these seniors were abandoned by the staff of the facility, and all died...
The Beeb has some coverage of this.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4240132.stm
The staff at Memorial Hospital apparently did everything possible, but I just can't understand why these folks weren't evaced well before the storm hit. It really does seem to me that the local authorities would be the ones responsible for planning and executing a pre-storm move of these people. FEMA may have had oversight, and may share some responsibility for missing this, but the locals bear the bulk of the burden, IMHO.
"Keep the Shiny side up"
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I scanned the NOLA Emergency Preparedness Plan, and one of the things I DIDN"T see was a plan for evacuating hospitals. There was a plan for Special Needs Shelters (SNS) in the city which made crystal clear that SNS were NOT to take people who could not take care of themselves, or who depended on a continuous supply of electricity- people on ventilators, critically ill, or total care patients. But evacuting hospitals is prolly not within the Mayors purview because patients have to be evaucated from one hospital TO another hospital, and a city-wide evacuation clearly means that hospitals outside of the city have to be involved. Coordinating that would either be a state or Federal function.
I heard, but have not had time to confirm, that FEMA promised Blanco that they would provide buses for transportation. I THINK the FEMA National Preparedness Plan assumes Federal responsibility for evacuating hospitals, but I'll have to double check as time permits.
Please don't think they give a shit.
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There is a good article in the LA Times that addresses the faulty evacuation. The reason why the NOLA plan was almost silent on transportation was because it hadn't been worked out. Apparently Nagin DID line up buses but, as I said before, ran short of drivers. There were about a dozen pick-up points, but bc of lack of drivers many people waited for a long time w/o ever getting a ride.
In addition, the other point that I made was that the schools that had been designated as shelters might be flooded to the rooftops. They were apparently eventually decided to be unsafe and not used. (Good move)You have to read about 2/3 of the way into this article b4 you get to the salient points.
www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-dvd13sep13,0,5876683.sto
ry?coll=la-home-headlines
I think when all is said and done people will find that in lieu of a 100% evacuation, when Nagin designated the Superdome as Refuge of Last Resort he saved thousands if not tens of thousands of lives.
Please don't think they give a shit.
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Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
There is a good article in the LA Times that addresses the faulty evacuation. The reason why the NOLA plan was almost silent on transportation was because it hadn't been worked out. Apparently Nagin DID line up buses but, as I said before, ran short of drivers.
Amtrack offered the city 900 seats on an outgoing train. Nagin refused. The train left empty a few hours before the storm hit.
I'm also reading that the largest levy break may have been caused by a runaway barge. Oddly, huge disasters caused by runaway barges are not unheard of occurances. Also heard a Corps of Engineers guy last night saying no amount of money would have made a differance because the levees, no matter how much work they did to upkeep them, were not designed to handle a storm that large. Its like a 10 gallon bucket. It can be the nicest, newest, most modern 10 gallon bucket in the world, but it aint gonna hold 11 gallons.
I guess the FEMA director should have been personally overseeing the removal of the barges along with the staffing of the City buses, dropping water and food to the Superdome, handing out diapers and water to looters, and personally commanding the Louisiana National Guard. Matter of fact, as far as disaster goes State and Local governments have no role whatsoever.
Imagine, Bush, unsatisfied with Lousiana's preparations, could have invoked the Insurrection Act and taken direct control of the State without the invitation or approval of a female, elected Democratic Governor. Then we'd all have nothing to complain about, would we?
Instead all we got was Federal aid deployed faster and on a larger scale then at anytime in American history for a natural disaster.
Perhaps next time the President should just assume the local Democratic officials are incapable of handling the most basic emergency services and step right in at the first sign of a problem. Matter of fact, why wait? Democrats are clearly incapable, we cannot afford to wait to the eve of another Katrina to act, we should consider removing them now. Judge Roberts, your response:
Quote:
"No one is above the law and that includes the president."
Oh, well never mind then...
H
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Quote:Hero- Why do you keep tossing out false dilemnas? This was already addressed in several threads. Bush had the authority to call in the National Guard from other states to perform non-police/ security duties (search and rescue and relief). That was one of the main points of of the whole new National Plan. Sheesh! Get w/ the program!
Imagine, Bush, unsatisfied with Lousiana's preparations, could have invoked the Insurrection Act and taken direct control of the State without the invitation or approval of a female, elected Democratic Governor. Then we'd all have nothing to complain about, would we?
Please don't think they give a shit.
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Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:Quote:Hero- Why do you keep tossing out false dilemnas? This was already addressed in several threads. Bush had the authority to call in the National Guard from other states to perform non-police/ security duties (search and rescue and relief). That was one of the main points of of the whole new National Plan. Sheesh! Get w/ the program!
Imagine, Bush, unsatisfied with Lousiana's preparations, could have invoked the Insurrection Act and taken direct control of the State without the invitation or approval of a female, elected Democratic Governor. Then we'd all have nothing to complain about, would we?
Nice dodge. Lets you ignore the fact that Blanco refused a direct Presidential request to take control of the 13,000 National Guard troops, from Louisiana and other states, operating in Louisiana. In order to override her decisions he would have had to invoke the Insurrection Act.
She also waited till Thursday, Sept 1st to make specific requests for aid. Turning the whole armed forces of the United States over to the governor of Louisiana who was visibly shaken and frantic on TV was not an option I want the President to consider.
If Bush deserves any complaints (besides the poor choice for FEMA director) its that he didn't usurp Blanco's authority and take direct control. If he had, I'm sure you'd be complaining about that and saying "he never had the authority to do that."
H
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
Also heard a Corps of Engineers guy last night saying no amount of money would have made a differance because the levees, no matter how much work they did to upkeep them, were not designed to handle a storm that large. Its like a 10 gallon bucket. It can be the nicest, newest, most modern 10 gallon bucket in the world, but it aint gonna hold 11 gallons.
Factcheck.org has an interesting analysis of the levee situation.
http://factcheck.org/article344.html
I hadn't realized that the levee system was only designed to take a Category three storm, and that water overtopping the levees was considered more likely than breaches.
"Keep the Shiny side up"
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If the engineers had gone farther with their failure analysis, they would have seen that water overtopping the levees might cause them to fail. First-cut analysis says that water rushing over the levees wore away the earthen support on the downstream side, which caused the levees to fall over.
Please don't think they give a shit.
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"Nice dodge. Lets you ignore the fact that Blanco refused a direct Presidential request to take control of the 13,000 National Guard troops, from Louisiana and other states, operating in Louisiana. In order to override her decisions he would have had to invoke the Insurrection Act."
Not true. Bush had and has the authority to call on the National Guard and put them under control of civilian authority. It's not an all-or-nothing situation.
Please don't think they give a shit.
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