Why Americans are dying earlier than their international peers
POSTED BY: Niki2
UPDATED: Thursday, November 24, 2022 19:21
VIEWED: 5137
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I admit, this one came as a shock to me:Quote:
Despite spending more per person on health care than any other country, Americans are getting sicker and dying younger than our international peers -- a problem persisting across all ages and both genders, according to a new report.
In 2011, the National Research Council found life expectancy in the United States was increasing at a slower rate than in other high-income democracies. Shortly after, the NRC and Institute Of Medicine convened a panel of experts to investigate why.
The panel was given 18 months to review recent health studies from 16 "peer countries": Australia, Austria, Canada, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Italy, Japan, Norway, Portugal, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, the Netherlands and the United Kingdom.
The panel released its report, titled "U.S. Health in International Perspective: Shorter Lives, Poorer Health," on Wednesday.
"Our panel was unprepared for the gravity of the finding we uncovered," chair Steven Woolf wrote in the report's preface. "We hope that others will take notice."
This is not a new problem, Woolf noted on a conference call about the report. "It's been going on since 1980 and it's getting progressively worse."
Data from 2007 show Americans' life expectancy is 3.7 years shorter for men and 5.2 years shorter for women than in the leading nations -- Switzerland for men and Japan for women.
As of 2011, 27 countries had higher life expectancies at birth than the United States.
"The tragedy is not that the United States is losing a contest with other countries," the report states, "but that Americans are dying and suffering from illness and injury at rates that are demonstrably unnecessary."
The report outlines nine health areas where the United States lags behind other rich nations, including infant mortality, homicides, teen pregnancy, drug-related deaths, obesity and disabilities.
Americans have the highest prevalence of AIDS in the group. Seniors are at a greater risk of developing and dying from heart disease. And our children are less likely than children in peer countries to reach their fifth birthday.
It's easy to point a finger at our health care system, which unlike comparison countries' does not provide universal coverage. As a result, lower income and less educated people often receive poorer care.
"The U.S. health system is highly fragmented, with limited public health and primary care resources and a large uninsured population," the authors wrote. "Compared with people in other countries, Americans are more likely to find care inaccessible or unaffordable."
But the panel says that's not all that's to blame. Studies show even white, insured, college-educated Americans are sicker than their peers in Europe.
The experts gave three other possible causes for the country's growing health disadvantage:
Though Americans know what's "good" for them, few act on it. Although we are less likely to smoke and drink heavily than our peers, we consume more calories, have higher rates of drug abuse, are less likely to use seat belts and are more likely to use guns in acts of violence, according to the report.
Most high-income countries report income and education disparities in their health care system. But the panel said Americans benefit much less from social programs that could negate the effects of poverty.
"In countries with the most favorable health outcomes, resource investments and infrastructure often reflect a strong societal commitment to the health and welfare of the entire population," the report states.
Our environment is also a big contributor to Americans' poor health, the panel said. U.S. communities are built around automobiles, discouraging physical activity and increasing traffic accidents. Contraceptives are only available by prescript
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I think it's more likely that you're too busy shooting each other???
With the grace of age, commander, we learn to accept.
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Not that far off the mark, even tho' I know you're joking (partly at least!). They DID mention homicides, but what proportion of those contribute to the deaths...
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Well, one cannot discount the crap which corporate america allows to be produced as "food" too - a considerable amount of stuff, like HFCS, or some of our neurotoxic sweeteners, would be rejected overseas.
I about hit the freakin ROOF when they started adding HFCS to friggin bread, you know there's brands which now ADVERTISE the fact that they DON'T add HFCS to theirs ?
And thanks be for that, or I'd have to make my own!
Cause, well... Bologna and Cheese on lightly toasted bread, that NEVER gets old.
(of course, TRY finding Bologna, OR Cheese these days without HFCS, it's getting hard as hell!)
-Frem
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Quote:
Originally posted by peacekeeper:
I think it's more likely that you're too busy shooting each other???
With the grace of age, commander, we learn to accept.
I know it's just a snark, but it's not that far off, really. 30,000+ gun deaths in this country every year, year in and year out - that has to make an impact on the longevity index when that many people are dying early from unnatural causes.
"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero
"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012
Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"
Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."
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I think the primary cause is, as Frem said, all the crap in our food supply, artificial things, genetically modified plants, chemicals go leor. Secondarily I would agree that our health care system has a lot to be desired for many Americans, we've all heard, and some of us have lived, horror stories on that front. I'm thankful that I haven't had any catastrophes of that nature but so many do.
"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya
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I agree, Mike.
Riona, deaths in America for 2010 were 2,468,435. You don't think 300,000+ of those isn't a significant number, I'm guessing.
Compare us to the rest of the world, however, and it looks a bit different:Quote:
A study in the Journal of Trauma and Acute Care Surgery found that the gun murder rate in the U.S. is almost 20 times higher than the next 22 richest and most populous nations combined.
Among the world’s 23 wealthiest countries, 80 percent of all gun deaths are American deaths and 87 percent of all kids killed by guns are American kids. http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2012/07/gun-deaths-a-familiar-am
erican-experience/
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And then there's this, which comes into it too:Quote:
Dr. Matthew Sleeth is a former emergency room physician. He's also the author of "24/6: A Prescription for a Healthier, Happier Life."
CNN: You begin your book by writing about a store owner who vowed to close his store on Sundays, so his employees and their families, as well as his customers, could take the day off. But it didn't stay that way for long. What happened?
Sleeth: For almost 2,000 years, Western culture stopped -- primarily on Sunday -- for about 24 hours. Even when I was a child, you couldn't buy gasoline, you couldn't buy milk. The drugstores weren't open. The only thing that was open was a hospital. Even in dairy farming country, we would milk cows, but we wouldn't bring in hay.
And so society just had a day where they put it in park. (That) was Sunday... until the last 30 years or so.
CNN: Why do you think taking one day off a week is so important?
Sleeth: We go 24/7 now, and I think it's having health consequences. I think more and more, there's a consensus that it leads to depression and anxiety.
It's interesting, when a doctor sits down and does a primary intake with a new patient, they ask about smoking, exercise and diet, but they don't ask how much you're working. They don't get any sense of if you're working seven days a week, or if you have time set aside -- like people have always had -- for rest.
CNN: You write about incorporating a "stop day" into your weekly schedule. How do you think that can extend and enrich your life?
Sleeth: A "stop day" is a day you really cease from your labors. This really comes in Western cultures from the Ten Commandments. The fourth commandment tells us to remember the Sabbath. The word "Sabbath" simply means "to cease" -- to cease from your labors.
CNN: You go as far as to say that going full-throttle 24/7 is an illness. How do you recognize the signs?
Sleeth: I find that there's a growing epidemic, really, of depression. We're the most depressed country in the world.
The World Health Organization says somewhere between one in nine and one in 10 Americans are being treated for depression. We tend to work more hours than any other country in the world; Japan is second closest.
When we're constantly going, we pour out chemicals to try to meet those stresses. We have short-term stress hormones like adrenaline, and longer-term hormones like the steroids that we pour out. Those chemicals constantly being "on" are bad for us, and they lead to anxiety and depression and to, I think, diabetes and being obese.
It's interesting that if I took somebody in the emergency department and gave them a big slug of adrenaline, you'll find that an hour later they're just wiped out, and that'll really persist throughout the day. I think that's what we're doing to ourselves. We're constantly bringing stress into our life, and the idea of having one day a week that I can count on to stop is very reassuring.
Even if on Monday I'm very, very busy -- and that proceeds throughout the week -- if you know you have a habit of a weekly day of rest, of stopping, then you always know that's out in front of you. A lot of people "go" and never know when it is that they're going to come to rest. More at
That's certainly a valid point. I was surprised to learn Japan is second; I thought from stuff I've heard and read that they were first. I've read about Karoshi ("death from overwork"), which has become epidemic in the last few years. The major medical causes of karoshi deaths are heart attack and stroke due to stress. Quote:
A recent measurement found that a Japanese worker has approximately two hours overtime a day on average (generally unpaid). The problem with unpaid overtime in companies is that the overtime
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I am all for a day-of-rest, religion or no, I follow it, but not from any religious observance, and severely resent attempts to force the issue.
But the NOTION of a day of chilling out, I am completely onboard with that!
And yes, as I've said to many, even Yuriko, there's issues of Japanese culture which offend the hell out of me, and that's definately one of em - frankly I feel that the issue of Hikkikomori has as much, or even more to do with an absolute rejection of a society they find repulsive than it does mental illness.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hikikomori
Especially given my rejection of western society for the same bloody reasons.
Zielenziger's book is WELL worth reading, btw.
-Frem
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I've always been surprised how few paid holidays Americans seem to get in your average job. And by holidays, I mean weeks of paid 'vacation' as you guys put it.
For permanent jobs, you get at least 4 weeks per year here, and some places you can buy more leave. ie I can buy 2 extra weeks, my hubby 4. Plus we get long service leave which you access after 10 years, an additional 10 weeks usually.
mind you, life is different for the vast number of casual employees who may get a higher hourly rate, but little in the way of leave.
I've always thought leave is essential for mental well being. If I couldnt' take regular breaks I'd be a basket case, well more of a basket case.
Niki, the expectations in many jobs now is that you do unaccounted overtime and whoa to you and your career if you dare leave near 5 oclock.
I firmly stand in the school of not working too hard. Can't stand that over obsessive work ethic that seems prevalent these days.
Sad to see that conditions that were hard fought for, being eroded in the name of increasing someone else's profits.
Quote:
Origins of the 8-hour day
In the 1800s, most Victorians worked up to 14 hours a day, six days a week. There was no sick leave, no holiday leave, and employers could sack employees at any time, without giving a reason.
In the 1850s, Victoria was flooded with migrants, all hoping to strike it rich on the goldfields. Many of these were British tradesmen, such as James Stephens, who had been involved with the workers' movement in England. They brought with them a determination to achieve fairer working conditions, including reduced working hours.
There were three main arguments for a reduced working day in Victoria. The first was that Australia's harsh climate necessitated shorter working hours:
...the period of labor under the relaxing influence of an Australian climate, cannot extend to the length of daily toil ruling in the mother country [Britain], without sacrificing health, and shortening the duration of human life.
– Victorian Operative Masons' Society report 11 June, 1884
Source
The second was that working men needed time to develop their minds through education:
The self-cultivation...of the ‘adult man'...can only be the work of time. It would be a great advantage then to give the worker time to read and study, and to progress in knowledge and virtue.
– Victorian Operative Masons' Society report 11 June, 1884
Source
The third was that tradesmen could become better husbands, fathers and citizens if they were granted leisure time:
The man whose mind is unclogged by the action and influence of severe bodily work, when in health will have his natural flow of animal spirits and kindred sympathies, inclining him to self respect, and respect for other, for law, order, and forms so essential to freedom, domestic virtues and good citizenship.
– Victorian Operative Masons' Society report 11 June, 1884
Source
With this in mind, the Builders' Union began its fight for shorter working hours.
In 1856, the stonemasons won the right to a 48-hour working week, which entitled them to Saturday afternoons off. While this doesn't sound like much today, it made a big difference to working class families in the 1850s. It was a pivotal point in Victoria's political history and paved the way for other industries to fight for the same rights in the workplace.
http://ergo.slv.vic.gov.au/explore-history/fight-rights/workers-rights
/origins-8-hour-day
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Hi Frem, I've done some research on that concept and I would agree that a decent chunk of them are opting out of a society they feel is unfair and undesirable. Some of them surely have social anxiety challenges, like in any group of humans, but I'd reckon a lot of them are choosing to stay out of society.
I thought you'd be pissier about Niki's things being closed on Sun article. You've always been rather vehiment about your dislike of the practice.
"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya
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Quote:
Originally posted by RionaEire:
I thought you'd be pissier about Niki's things being closed on Sun article. You've always been rather vehiment about your dislike of the practice.
I dislike it as a legally enforced RELIGIOUS practice, specifically favoring a particular religion, rather than as a concept, because...
A- That's ramming someone elses religion down my chops on the barrels of The States guns.
B- It is not voluntary.
As a mutually agreed, voluntary exchange I got little problem with it, the problem I mostly have is that in many cases it is neither.
-Frem
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I think of what I was when I was in my single digits and "tween" years....
I've been "dead" for 20 years and I'm only 33 now.
I don't even remember what it was like to be alive.....
Awesome song.... tell your kids...
They won't appreciate it until they're 33 either though..... Doh!
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Quote:
I firmly stand in the school of not working too hard. Can't stand that over obsessive work ethic that seems prevalent these days.
Interesting. My view of it is, what else would I do with my time? And if it kills me or I get fired, who cares?
I don't take paid vacation or sick leave. There is no reason to - and I say this as the loveable hobbling ball of rage and crippling pain you all have the privilege to know. I haven't been able to straighten out my back or sit comfortably in a chair for two months. Yet here I am. Firmly not giving any cares.
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MMmmmmmmmmmmm..................bologna and cheese on toast.
Wait, I gotta clean my lip.
SGG
Quote:
Originally posted by FREMDFIRMA:
Well, one cannot discount the crap which corporate america allows to be produced as "food" too - a considerable amount of stuff, like HFCS, or some of our neurotoxic sweeteners, would be rejected overseas.
I about hit the freakin ROOF when they started adding HFCS to friggin bread, you know there's brands which now ADVERTISE the fact that they DON'T add HFCS to theirs ?
And thanks be for that, or I'd have to make my own!
Cause, well... Bologna and Cheese on lightly toasted bread, that NEVER gets old.
(of course, TRY finding Bologna, OR Cheese these days without HFCS, it's getting hard as hell!)
-Frem
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Frem,
My doctor has told me to try and stay away from processed foods as much as possible..
(of course, TRY finding Bologna, OR Cheese these days without HFCS, it's getting hard as hell!)
Ain't it the truth!
SGG
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Frem, I thought you were a hedonist. Bologna and cheese on bread is too healthy.
You must switch to caffeinated soda and candy. You may continue to eat large greasy hamburgers (while I steal all your candy).
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I wasn't surprised about the findings in this article, most of us know that lately the life expectancy in America has started going down, even if it doesn't show up on charts funded by certain people.
Byte, I know it sounds kind of silly, but when I was having my hip issues I did physical therapy and it really helped, now I have excercises I do when the problem relapses (doctors don't know why I have this problem). I thought "dude, I haven't been in a accident so why would physical therapy help?" and it was a MAJOR hastle to go and take time out of my life, I counted the weeks until I was done) but it turned out to be good in the long run because I can actually walk around and do stuff. I fear what would have happened to me if I hadn't done it, no more faire, or anything really, for me. I know you hate going to the doctor but it might work out better than you think. Okay you can open your eyes now and resume reading, I'm done. :)
"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya
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Hahaha, but I *like* bologna and cheeze, with apple juice... okay, and BBQ potato chips.
Hedonism is about pleasure, without regard to morals or safety, and some of my pleasures aren't necessarily immoral, I just don't CARE whether they are or not.
That and I am a total corruptor about it, man, the effort I put into making Gluten-Free, Sugar-Free poundcake that fit those reqs, was healthy, AND tasted good was legion.
BUT IT WORKED!
(recipe available on demand)
SCIENCE!
It's soo worth it to me to hear my ex's husband whinging for me to "stop ENABLING her, dammit!"
I think we're winning some turf a little at a time, SGG.
I was sorely cheezed off about real maple syrup no longer being available due to the plethora of flavored corn syrups, but it seems I was not alone in this demand cause it's back on the shelves again, even in store brands.
While jelly/jam has lagged behind, Cascadian Farms has some available, and at least one of the major brands (smuckers, I think) has begun offering the real deal once again.
Peanut butter, mostly a transfat issue there, cause of the difficulty of getting it spreadable at room temperature, but skippy natural offers one, the touch of honey version is quite nice.
All of which are affordable at rational prices, instead of paying through the nose for some so-called "organic" stuff in a fancy container which is nothing of the sort!
And yes, I like PB&J just the same as bologna and cheese, mostly cause when I was REALLY poor I used to eat a damned lot of them, I'd leave the jar of peanut butter sitting on the stove over the pilot light to keep it melty and get more out of it by spreading it thin, and it would soak into the bread cause of that, tasted damn good it did.
One reason I had so little of it was this prideful lady down the block who'd listened to all that crummy propaganda and would NOT accept assistance, not even allow her kids to enroll in the free lunch program, and I couldn't bear the sight of her half starved kids, so I started sneaking them PB&J sandwiches, even though I didn't really have enough my own self.
Of course, these days if I *REALLY* want it "organic" all I gotta do is head five miles south into the local agricultural area, hell, I can right now get you a live chicken in like ten minutes if you want one - you'll be pluckin that sucker yourself though!
-F
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Byte, there are a million things to do besides work; it only takes finding them. I can't count the number of things I'm interested in that fill my time--to the point that I have to choose between them, I can't do them all. It only takes looking around at what might interest you and investigating it. Nobody should only have their job as their life.
I'm kinda dumb that way. I JUST signed up for the Cornell bird-count, so I have to spend an hour two days a week counting the birds who come to our bird feeder. I'm also going back to work one day a week at our local animal rescue/rehab facility. I got an aquarium when Choey (long into them) first got here and we bought her one--now I have two of my own. I got a dwarf rabbit years ago, ended up with six, now back down to one (the huskies put an end to that one!). I had a friend who was into reptiles; I ended up with an entire bedroom FULL of them (also back down to one now). I love sci-fi; Frem turned us on to an author and now Jim and I have read EVERY book by that author--Jim's just started his second go-around. The number of things one can get involved in and enjoy, especially in America, is endless.
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Jobs are work. Jobs earn money, which is a meaningless concept.
Hobbies and interests are jobs that don't pay money.
Jobs nor hobbies nor interests have any significant impact or tangible benefits on the individual or the world.
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I know you have hobbies Byte, writing Firefly stories for one. The thing though is that its hard to do a lot of hobbies during the week because everyone is working and so are you. I would love to go watch concerts in the evenings for instance, but no one I know wants to go out on a Wed. night.
Byte, you're lucky you don't live in my town, because I'd probably be always trying to get you to do stuff with me, but not on workday nights I know what your work schedule is like. Ahhhhhhhh. :)
"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya
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Quote:
I know you have hobbies Byte, writing Firefly stories for one.
It's not very fun. I do it because I have an obligation. Like a job. But without money.
And shoooooosh, it's supposed to be a secret.
As you were.
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Oops, I didn't know it was a secret. :)
I'm becoming more and more of a fan of obligation as a form of connection to human kind.
"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya
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It's not a very good secret, but most people don't know about it anyway. Plus dubious displays of denial and deliberately terrible logic is pretty much the only entertainment I get.
Obligation is all there is.
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At least its something eh? And its not fickle like love and it doesn't wear out like the way "like" does.
Niki, that's exciting that you're going to start helping at the animal center! I hope that works well for you, I know you're good at it so I think its going to be great!
"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya
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i think what you have said perfectly illustrates the dangers of not taking breaks from work, and then totally unable to imagine what purpose life could hold apart from work.
I generally enjoy my work and get a lot out of it, but its not the sum of who I am.
I take a leaf out of ferris bueller's book of life, it goes to fast, you have to take some time to stop and look around.
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Well, agree to disagree then, I just don't see the point in differentiating between anything. The transience doesn't make me appreciate stuff more, impermanence is not a good reason to admire something.
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I take note of the fact that a lot of Americans are being diagnosed with depression.This is a serious point I'd like to address.Do you think this has something to do with your culture of aspiration?
It seems to me that your kids are pushed constantly into "realising your potential" and "living the American dream" etc etc. Now, although this is, in itself, not a bad thing, and it's healthy to try and better yourself, I feel that perhaps you can put TOO MUCH pressure on your kids. Unfortunately, in a culture where competition is highly prized, there is going to be abject disappointment for so many, and only the very best are ever going to succeed.
It seems evident that most of you seem to have a bloody therapist to help you with the most basic functions of life. Every time you have a minor hiccup, you seem to dive into the therapist's chair,rather than learn to cope with these things on your own.Now, to me, being able to stand on your own two feet and accept your lot and get on with it, is a far greater measure of success than getting one up on the next man?
You are a very emotional nation, which again, isnt necessarily a negative thing, but maybe The Briitsh(as an obvious example), with our culture of "stiff upper lip" and "keeping things close to our chest", may put us in a better position to cope with adversity.You do, in all honesty, seem to have somewhat of a "victim culture" on occasion.
Hey, maybe we are just too cold and unfeeling as a nation, and maybe that causes its own problems, but it's just an observation of comparisons that might explain why so many Americans dont seem to be able to cope. This failure to be able to realise your expected potentials may be a reason why so many of you turn to the gun for your releases of your frustrations?
I'm happy to be proven wrong, guys???
With the grace of age, commander, we learn to accept.
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That's a lot of generalizations, Peacekeeper. I have never felt like I am better than others or been disappointed when I fall short of expectations, and my parents gave up on me when I was about five, shortly after my depression developed. I don't blame them. It is the reality of the world, some people are exceptional and I am on the deep end of the shit bucket, why waste time on that?
And I don't go to therapists because they're all evil bastards who manipulate you and medicate you into a coma and cause all sorts of side problems that degrade quality of life, then they have the gall to call that "progress".
Anyway, no. If anything Americans aren't too competitive, rather they're too coddled, told they're great at stuff when they're really terrible. I'm not blind, I see how it is, us isolated and content in our little cages from the hardships of the world. And as for standing on my own two feet, I will always have to stand alone. No one to hold my hand through the hard times, as though that makes any difference what-so-ever, the hard times still happen and affections and friendships are powerless to stop it.
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Quote:Well.perhaps being told that you're great at something, and then realising in later life that you're not, is a cause for resentment in itself? best to be honest from the start, in my view.
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
That's a lot of generalizations, Peacekeeper. I have never felt like I am better than others or been disappointed when I fall short of expectations, and my parents gave up on me when I was about five, shortly after my depression developed. I don't blame them. It is the reality of the world, some people are exceptional and I am on the deep end of the shit bucket, why waste time on that?
And I don't go to therapists because they're all evil bastards who manipulate you and medicate you into a coma and cause all sorts of side problems that degrade quality of life, then they have the gall to call that "progress".
Anyway, no. If anything Americans aren't too competitive, rather they're too coddled, told they're great at stuff when they're really terrible. I'm not blind, I see how it is, us isolated and content in our little cages from the hardships of the world, smug in our feelings of superiority. And as for standing on my own two feet, I will always have to stand alone. No hugs. No one to hold my hand through the hard times, as though that makes any difference what-so-ever, the hard times still happen and the rest of you with all your laughable affections and friendships are powerless to stop it.
With the grace of age, commander, we learn to accept.
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Quote:
Well.perhaps being told that you're great at something, and then realising in later life that you're not, is a cause for resentment in itself? best to be honest from the start, in my view.
Oh? And what do you think I was told I was good at?
You think my resentment is the result of excess PRAISE? That what you see here arose from a position of satisfaction with the world?
Ultimately it doesn't matter if other people lie to you. What matters is if you lie to yourself.
I can't speak for all of America, but I doubt broad scale generalizations and comparisons between Britain and American attitudes reflect reality any more than my opinion would reflect reality if I said that the interest in the royal family among the commonwealth is a strange display of living vicariously through others and escapism from a personal hell of barely acknowledged despair.
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wow, you really are an angry person!!!
With the grace of age, commander, we learn to accept.
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Glad we're on the same page. The question is, are you ready to acknowledge your own anger yet?
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Quote:
Originally posted by peacekeeper:
It seems evident that most of you seem to have a bloody therapist to help you with the most basic functions of life. Every time you have a minor hiccup, you seem to dive into the therapist's chair,rather than learn to cope with these things on your own.
Uh, I take issue with that.
Therapy is a way of learning exactly that: learning to cope with your problems. Plenty of people try and "cope" through drug use, drinking or they are simply in denial until they drag themselves into a truly acute crisis or they make the same mistakes all over again.
Presenting trying to get professional help to illuminate and break harmful cycles as some kind of lazy cop-out or simple lack of will power is incredibly condescending and offensive.
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PK:Quote:
I take note of the fact that a lot of Americans are being diagnosed with depression. This is a serious point I'd like to address. Do you think this has something to do with your culture of aspiration?
Oh, hell yeah! In some circles, kids are pressured from pre-school on to compete, and there is quite a bit of stigma against those who don't "work", such as the disabled, etc. In many cases people feel they "are" what they "do" for a living, and we don't get the kind of time off Europeans do (dunno about you Brits)--not by a quarter! In many jobs here you have to work a full year before you get any vacation time, there are maybe seven (?) holidays a year and you have to accrue sick leave, which is usually 5-10 days a year. In most families both parents work, so weekends are spent doing marketing, etc. That IS a generalization, there are many variations, but you can see how that would contribute to an increase in unhealth. Quote:
It seems evident that most of you seem to have a bloody therapist to help you with the most basic functions of life.
That's a stereotype. Actually very FEW Americans go to therapists.Quote:
The results of the annual "Stress in America" survey by the American Psychological Association, released last week, found that while 85 percent of Americans say their stress level has remained the same or increased in the past year, just 4 percent of people use therapy as a way to combat that stress. More at http://www.news-medical.net/news/20091109/Survey-finds-fewer-Americans
-use-therapy-to-manage-stress.aspx
It's a common stereotype, but a false one.Quote:
You are a very emotional nation, which again, isnt necessarily a negative thing, but maybe The Briitsh.... in a better position to cope with adversity.
Well, yes, in general we are an emotional people, compared to the Brits. But that's not as true as it once was; a quick Google search finds numerous articles about it.Quote:
are the upper lips of British people today as stiff as they once were? According to our poll, no.
Asked if British people these days still have a stiff upper lip in terms of being restrained in displaying their emotions, a majority (57%) of Britons say no, they do not, while only 33% say British people do have a stiff upper lip. Meanwhile, 62% of the public also believes that British people have become more emotional in recent decades. Only 14% say British people have become less emotional, and 18% believe they are about the same. More at http://yougov.co.uk/news/2012/10/04/do-brits-still-have-stiff-upper-li
ps/
That's your own people's views and in that case only a survey.
For one thing, your "stiff upper lip" wasn't always true. Check out Ian Hislop's Stiff Upper Lip: An Emotional History of Britain (one article on it at http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-19728214 . You may find yourself quite surprised.
For another, curbing one's emotions can be quite unhealthy, just as being overly emotional can be. Which is worse is up for debate, but either taken to the extreme can be bad for a person. Moderation between the two is probably the most healthy route.Quote:
seem to have somewhat of a "victim culture" on occasion
That may be true, or it may be something you've heard some of our politicians and pundits say so many times that you believe it. I can't know which, nor can you, because what we hear/see are people talking about it and using it as a wedge issue, and choosing their examples to verify their claims.
There is no question that British society is less emotional than American. Whether that's good or bad I cannot say, but I know there are misperceptions involved.
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Good post Niki. I think its easy to have ideas about other cultures that may have some basis in fact but have been carried out of proportion, we've all done it and the best way to get out of that way of thinking is to get to know people from that culture and see for yourself if those things are true or to what extent they are.
Peacekeeper, if you wonder things it is okay to ask, there are no dumb questions after all, okay maybe there are, but that's not relevent to this point.
Why are so many people diagnosed with depression? I think that the diagnostic criteria may be too vague, I mean we've all seen those goofy adverts "Are you feeling depressed? Ask your doctor if --- is right for you". Oh how I wish those were illegal and weren't allowed to be shown on television. If you have trouble then go get checked out, but don't let adverts make you think you need this or that medicine. Sorry, side note, but I think its relevent. Do they have those stupid adverts in England?
"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya
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My daydream is ... when I retire I'll ...
seriously take up photography
seriously take up clothes design
seriously take up woodworking
create a plant info/ photo database and incorporate it into a CAD program
sleep more
see more movies
live in the local college/ university libraries looking up everything I always wanted to look up
go back to college and re-take all the classes I ever took - what ARE those young'uns learning nowadays?
Man - what I could do with extra time ...
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Quote:Oh,hey.fair comment.Perhaps I have fallen into the trap of following a British Media stereotype?? Guilty as charged.Obviously, when therapy is absolutely required, it is required. No offense was intended, and my apology is offered in this case.
Originally posted by AgentRouka:Quote:
Originally posted by peacekeeper:
It seems evident that most of you seem to have a bloody therapist to help you with the most basic functions of life. Every time you have a minor hiccup, you seem to dive into the therapist's chair,rather than learn to cope with these things on your own.
Uh, I take issue with that.
Therapy is a way of learning exactly that: learning to cope with your problems. Plenty of people try and "cope" through drug use, drinking or they are simply in denial until they drag themselves into a truly acute crisis or they make the same mistakes all over again.
Presenting trying to get professional help to illuminate and break harmful cycles as some kind of lazy cop-out or simple lack of will power is incredibly condescending and offensive.
With the grace of age, commander, we learn to accept.
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I also apologize. I think I was being rude.
And I've also derailed this thread. I should probably make a pact with you all to not comment on psychology or health related threads, because I feel compelled to make my cynical anti-positivity views known. Asking for understanding is unfair of me.
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So anyways - it seems like calculating the effect of gun deaths on life span should be a simple calculation when you have the numbers/ ages of those deaths. Not having the data I'm not about to do the calculation but it shouldn't be a mystery.
As for US food, many cultures cherish their food traditions, which were probably good traditions to have as they made use of available food and manged to keep people alive through generations.
And what is the US food tradition?
Oh yeah, lots of greasy salty carbohydratey food piled higher than you can eat and just dripping with sugar and salt and grease. Dive IN ...
Yep - our traditions - formed by big business and early exposure to addictive foods. YUUUuuuummmmmm.
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Quote:
Originally posted by peacekeeper:
I take note of the fact that a lot of Americans are being diagnosed with depression.This is a serious point I'd like to address.Do you think this has something to do with your culture of aspiration?
It seems to me that your kids are pushed constantly into "realising your potential" and "living the American dream" etc etc. Now, although this is, in itself, not a bad thing, and it's healthy to try and better yourself, I feel that perhaps you can put TOO MUCH pressure on your kids. Unfortunately, in a culture where competition is highly prized, there is going to be abject disappointment for so many, and only the very best are ever going to succeed.
It seems evident that most of you seem to have a bloody therapist to help you with the most basic functions of life. Every time you have a minor hiccup, you seem to dive into the therapist's chair,rather than learn to cope with these things on your own.Now, to me, being able to stand on your own two feet and accept your lot and get on with it, is a far greater measure of success than getting one up on the next man?
You are a very emotional nation, which again, isnt necessarily a negative thing, but maybe The Briitsh(as an obvious example), with our culture of "stiff upper lip" and "keeping things close to our chest", may put us in a better position to cope with adversity.You do, in all honesty, seem to have somewhat of a "victim culture" on occasion.
Hey, maybe we are just too cold and unfeeling as a nation, and maybe that causes its own problems, but it's just an observation of comparisons that might explain why so many Americans dont seem to be able to cope. This failure to be able to realise your expected potentials may be a reason why so many of you turn to the gun for your releases of your frustrations?
I'm happy to be proven wrong, guys???
With the grace of age, commander, we learn to accept.
Depression is being diagnosed in epidemic proportion throughout western nations. I don't think that is particular to the US.
I sometimes wonder whether people turn to counselling and therapy because of the lack of emotional support that they have in their lives in general. Who do you turn to when things are tough? In a highly competetive, individualistic society that can be a hard call. In more collective cultures, you are surrounded by family all of the time. They can form a buffer for many people, although can be very isolating if you don't conform.
Maybe as well some people are not emotionally intelligent enough to cope with the everyday emotions that are darker, sadness, grief, loss etc and these can be pathologised and treated like an illness.
I do agree that a culture that has the values that success, wealth and happiness is a right for everyone and that only stupid, lazy people do not achieve this, must be a difficult place to find yourself if you do not achieve those dizzy heights/ It also strikes me that the US is a place where there are many diverse values, but that particular belief is pervasive.
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Excellent, Magons. Quote:
I sometimes wonder whether people turn to counselling and therapy because of the lack of emotional support that they have in their lives in general.
That one hits home big time. I first sought counseling when I was in a VERY bad place with no support whatsoever. I was caring for Jim's two kids--to whom he was emotionally unavailable and one of which had severe anger issues and school problems--and his brother, who at that time a serious alcoholic and was living with us, and Jim was totally unavailable to me. We'd moved here and I'd left all my friends behind, so I was totally alone. I'd never had a "family" per se, was 25 and never been married, had kids of my own, or kept a house. I was a mess!
I did therapy for quite some time, and looking back, I made the mistake many do regarding therapy. I talked and talked and talked, bitched and moaned and used it for support, which the therapist allowed me to do. I realized later that i NEEDED that, and I also needed him to let me do it so that I could feel safe really opening up. When I went back to therapy after I was dx'd, I did the WORK, I became a different kind of what you called "emotionally intelligent", in that I came to recognize symptoms and have resources to deal with them, through EMDR I was able to go back and find out where I'd internalized many of the things that made me react unhealthily, and I went to sessions with specific agenda in mind to learn how to deal with things.
The problem with therapy for many (most?) people is that they get stuck in that first method...just talking and thinking the therapist will "solve" their problems. They don't do the work. They don't attempt to become self-aware and LEARN from therapy. So they end up thinking it's a waste.
As to depression, via the DSM a "depressive episode" is:Quote:
A. Five (or more) of the following symptoms have been present during the same 2-week period and represent a change from previous functioning; at least one of the symptoms is either (1) depressed mood or (2) loss of interest or pleasure.
Note: Do note include symptoms that are clearly due to a general medical condition, or mood-incongruent delusions or hallucinations.
(1) depressed mood most of the day, nearly every day, as indicated by either subjective report (e.g., feels sad or empty) or observation made by others (e.g., appears tearful). Note: In children and adolescents, can be irritable mood.
(2) markedly diminished interest or pleasure in all, or almost all, activities most of the day, nearly every day (as indicated by either subjective account or observation made by others)
(3) significant weight loss when not dieting or weight gain (e.g., a change of more than 5% of body weight in a month), or decrease or increase in appetite nearly every day. Note: In children, consider failure to make expected weight gains.
(4) insomnia or hypersomnia nearly every day
(5) psychomotor agitation or retardation nearly every day (observable by others, not merely subjective feelings of restlessness or being slowed down)
(6) fatigue or loss of energy nearly every day
(7) feelings of worthlessness or excessive or inappropriate guilt (which may be delusional) nearly every day (not merely self-reproach or guilt about being sick)
(8) diminished ability to think or concentrate, or indecisiveness, nearly every day (either by subjective account or as observed by others)
(9) recurrent thoughts of death (not just fear of dying), recurrent suicidal ideation without a specific plan, or a suicide attempt or a specific plan for committing suicide
B. The symptoms do not meet criteria for a Mixed Episode.
C. The symptoms cause clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning.
D. The symptoms are not due to the direct physiological effects of a substance (e.g., a drug of
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Fauci pleads with Americans to get COVID shot in final White House briefing
https://www.bworldonline.com/world/2022/11/23/488913/fauci-pleads-with
-americans-to-get-covid-shot-in-final-white-house-briefing/
US to keep COVID public health emergency through January
https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/us-keep-covid-public-health-213923614.
html
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From the Corona threads
Quote:
USA 62,661,000+
India 35,875,790
Brazil 22,558,695
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries
428,000 + Americans have died from COVID-19 since President Joe Biden took office and promised to "shut down the virus."
https://freebeacon.com/coronavirus/biden-covid-death-tracker/
France has now passed Brazil to reach third place
USA 100,382,913
India 44,671,538
France 37,492,134
and
'QUOTE
660,037 Americans have died from COVID-19 since President Joe Biden took office. He promised the American people he would "shut down the virus." end quote'
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Quote:
Originally posted by JAYNEZTOWN:
Fauci pleads with Americans to get COVID shot in final White House briefing
Fuck you Fauci. You're going to prison. You'd better go back to hiding.
--------------------------------------------------
Growing up in a Republic was nice... Shame we couldn't keep it.
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