What are Brown Coats to do?

POSTED BY: Hixie129
UPDATED: Sunday, January 6, 2008 00:36
VIEWED: 13554
PAGE 1 of 1

HIXIE129

Wednesday, December 26, 2007 10:12 PM

Our General, the Fearless Leader, the Head Brown Coat, the Creator has gone over to the Alliance!
He is on the FOX payroll and an employee of FOX, a loyal Alliance solider. The General is now back with the people who I thought were the enemy for the last few years. Who are the Brown Coats fighting, when was the formal surrender? Where was the address to the troops?

Surely the General should address the troops and thank them for the fight all these years, thank them for their time and MONEY and emotional support. Shouldn’t the General say something to the troops that it’s OVER! The General has surrendered, the General has switched sides and is now wearing the Alliance uniform…. Shouldn’t he tell the troops to go home and get on with their lives and raise their families? The General has moved on, he is Alliance now, what are Brown Coats to do?

ECGORDON

Wednesday, December 26, 2007 11:40 PM

We follow Joss, of course. There are new people in the programming department at FOX, at least Joss says so, and he says he's happy to be working with them.

wo men ren ran zai fei xing.

PROTOTYPE7

Thursday, December 27, 2007 12:24 AM

I agree we shouldn't be so hard on this fact. Fox was afterall the network that gave birth to the verse in the first place... gave it a chance. Sure some short-sighted morons cancelled the show but, if the creator of the stories that we all love so much is working with them again, I don't think we oughta go picking fights.

I think the best thing for us to do is to continue to show our love and support for Joss and all of his new projects. It's kinda hard for execs to miss that we're still die hard for Firefly and ya never know what the future might hold.

HIXIE129

Thursday, December 27, 2007 1:31 AM

So then, there is no more Alliance and we should forgive FOX for canceling Firefly even though we will never see the show again?

And all the letter writing, the buying of DVDs and tee shirts.. all of that was so that Joss can get another job creating a different show with the people HE told us were responsible for killing Firefly?..

I thought Brown Coats are about the verse not Dollhouse.. So I ask the question again What do Brown Coats Do? Should there be a formal surrender?

BLACKADDER7

Thursday, December 27, 2007 1:47 AM

I think you have to separate the people from the entity. 'FOX' didn't cancel Firefly. A person did. It serves no real purpose to blame the entity for the shortsightedness of a single individual.

Think of it this way. If you eat at a restaurant, and the food stinks, but a few years later, the place is under new management with a new chef. Would you give the restaurant another chance? I probably would. Looks like Joss would too...

PROTOTYPE7

Thursday, December 27, 2007 2:06 AM

I'd venture to say that Joss is far from an idiot. So I'm with him.
As far as the hole dollhouse thing I say this... if his new project works out, then who's to say he doesn't get a greenlight for something else that HE wants to do? I think dollhouse should get the same love that his past projects get from the browncoats. I didn't watch a single episode of Buffy... just not my deal. But I don't have anything bad to say about it. Just think of how many people that are Buffy fans might not have given this show a second thought if it weren't for Joss's name? But tons of them are now firefly fans.
If dollhouse does well, that's just more people to add to the firefly pot. More people equals more money, more money equals cha-ching for a network willing to bring back our favorite show!

ECGORDON

Thursday, December 27, 2007 2:21 AM

Apparently you didn't actually read my reply. Why should we be mad at current executives at FOX who want to give Joss another show, when those executives are not the ones who canceled Firefly? There is constant turnover at all of the networks, just like there is at all the movie studios. We shouldn't be angry at those who had no say in how Firefly was treated.

wo men ren ran zai fei xing.

FREEBROWNCOAT

Thursday, December 27, 2007 3:02 AM

ANd of the corporate mentality? A bit of proof would go along way for me. Say, a Firefly miniseries? I think that would do it.

"Doc did good, coming up with this
job. Don't mean I like him any
better... but nothing buys bygones
quicker'n cash."

BADKARMA00

Thursday, December 27, 2007 3:41 AM

Hey! I hadn't ever considered a mini-series! That's a great idea!

Bad_karma

ANONYMOUS1

Thursday, December 27, 2007 4:24 AM

Joss isn't a General.

Joss is Boss. Nathan (Our Captain) Fillion said so on the Serenity Collector's Edition DVD extras.

And Joss is on strike right now so he ain't getting paid.

Tactics! It is all about Tactics!

Step 1. All the Big Darn Heroes keep working and building their fan bases. Nathan's got 39839 friends. The more people see of our Big Darn Heroes, the more people want to see of our Big Darn Heroes...which leads them back to Firefly/Serenity.

Step 2. Joss and Tim work on another show together and expand their fan base...which leads people back to Firefly/Serenity.

Step 3. We keep introducing Firefly/Serenity where we can. We keep buying/promoting Firefly/Serenity Official Merchandise.

Someday, Universal or another studio will realize there is more money to be made in the 'verse.

Joss and the actors love the 'verse. Just listen to the cast commentary. They love working together.

Serenity sequel, sequel, Serenity set we can tour/have weddings/have shindigs at Universal Studios and where Firefly like episodes could be filmed for Straight to DVD and SciFi or USA Channel. Got my QMX Official Serenity Blueprints and lottery tickets.

We hold til Mal gets back.

HIXIE129

Thursday, December 27, 2007 10:56 AM

I understand everyones' responses. However, for me FOX had been the Alliance, I don't watch FOX ever ( except for sporting events ) I was pissed that Joss signed with FOX.. I felt betrayed. And I still feel that Joss sold out. I feel like Mal after the Battle of Serenity.

BROWNCOAT1

Thursday, December 27, 2007 1:13 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hixie129:
I understand everyones' responses. However, for me FOX had been the Alliance, I don't watch FOX ever ( except for sporting events ) I was pissed that Joss signed with FOX.. I felt betrayed. And I still feel that Joss sold out. I feel like Mal after the Battle of Serenity.

I suppose I can understand how you feel Hixie, but I must agree with what the others have posted here that you have to separate the current people in charge w/ Fox Television from those who were there when the plug was pulled on Firefly. The shortsighted fools who held the reins then are no longer with Fox. The people there now are different and Joss felt that with the changes he was safe to take his ideas back to them.

Let's face it, the man has a family and they have a powerful need to eat. If Fox extends an offer and Joss has no other irons in the fire, why not take Fox's deal? I suppose that is how Hollywood works.

Look at it this way, if some hits you with a hammer, which do you get mad at, the person or the hammer? The execs who cancelled Firefly are not Fox, they only worked for Fox. See the difference?

Personally I don't watch Fox, but that is more for the fact that their programming doesn't appeal to me at all.

Joss is still Joss. He still has stories to tell, and Serenity is one of them. Perhaps if he is successful at Fox some more doors might open for him to continue ours. We'll just have to wait and see.

__________________________________________
Holding the line since December '02!

Richmond, VA & surrounding area Firefly Fans:

http://www.richmondbrowncoats.org

Color Officer / X.O. Echo Company

http://76thbattalion.homestead.com/index.html

JONGSSTRAW

Thursday, December 27, 2007 1:32 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hixie129:
I understand everyones' responses. However, for me FOX had been the Alliance, I don't watch FOX ever ( except for sporting events ) I was pissed that Joss signed with FOX.. I felt betrayed. And I still feel that Joss sold out. I feel like Mal after the Battle of Serenity.

Hey dude, the guy's gotta eat!
We all sacrifice principles occasionally either to make a living or go along with a group.
You watch Sports on Fox....see, you do it to.

HELL'S KITTEN

Thursday, December 27, 2007 4:33 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hixie129:
However, for me FOX had been the Alliance, I don't watch FOX ever ( except for sporting events ) I was pissed that Joss signed with FOX.. I felt betrayed. And I still feel that Joss sold out. I feel like Mal after the Battle of Serenity.

...you're kinda scary.

By your own logic, look at it this way: Joss doesn't work with FOX ever ( except for Dollhouse ).

But anyways... you're assuming Joss had a choice in which network he went to first. Was a time when he had a contract that basically meant FOX had all first options on anything Joss wanted to do for television. And that, if I recall correctly, was rumored to be a small part of the reason they decided to dissolve Mutant Enemy after Angel was cancelled. It was also part of the reason, among many many others, that Joss could only bring the Firefly story back through movies or comics, as these media weren't covered by that contract.

Whether or not that part of his contract is still in effect (and whether or not I actually got some of the facts straight after all these years) is irrelevant. You have no idea how things work in that industry and you have no idea what the circumstances are. But by all means, do continue to judge someone you don't know based on something you know nothing about.

Joss will only have "sold out" when he starts writing for reality shows. And if he did? They'd probably be the only watchable ones on air.

EVILDEAD1971

Thursday, December 27, 2007 5:23 PM

i was havin' the same thought myself...

i haven't watched fox since they've cancelled firefly and futurama. now, joss is "back" at fox with the dollhouse. i'm at sorts, but i will watch the dollhouse. joss's writing + eliza's acting = a shiny new show.

who knows, maybe our watching of the new show will prompt fox to reconsider their decision and we get more firefly.

ultimately it would be worth it

http://www.boomstick.org

HIXIE129

Friday, December 28, 2007 8:27 AM

With regards to Joss eating and making a living… Joss is very successful financially; this thing about having to eat and to make a living I'm not sure is a good argument. Didn't he give up on Wonder woman because the execs didn't like his version of the tale.. If he really needed the money couldn't he have given them what they wanted..?

CHRISISALL

Friday, December 28, 2007 8:35 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hixie129:
And I still feel that Joss sold out.

Like a driver in the Indy 500...

Anywhere you get the wheels Chrisisall

ECGORDON

Friday, December 28, 2007 12:32 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hixie129:
With regards to Joss eating and making a living… Joss is very successful financially; this thing about having to eat and to make a living I'm not sure is a good argument. Didn't he give up on Wonder woman because the execs didn't like his version of the tale.. If he really needed the money couldn't he have given them what they wanted..?

If Joss had given them what they wanted, wouldn't you again be accusing him of selling out?

Besides, he came up with Dollhouse at the insistence of Eliza Dushku, who already had a development deal at FOX, and Joss did it as a favor to her. And he is on record as stating there is now a favorable atmosphere at that studio and network. Why can't you accept that?

One other point. Is there any other show you loved that was canceled by a network? Ever? I can't imagine, unless you are very young, that this hasn't happened to you before. If I stopped watching any network that canceled a favorite show of mine at one time or another, there would be no network television at all at my house.

wo men ren ran zai fei xing.

HIXIE129

Friday, December 28, 2007 12:46 PM

I remember WHY I came to this website. I wanted to be with people who were in love with firefly and felt as I did. I wanted to know what they were thinking and I liked all the discussions about the characters and episodes. I came here to get updates on the latest rumors. I like the people that are on the site the last couple of years. I like Brown Coats.

But doesn’t it feel like things have changed? The talk of Firefly/Serenity is so little except for some new converts that ask questions… The new converts are so few these days. The talk on this board is mostly about World events, politics or anything but Firefly or Serenity.

Joss, Adam, Jewel would visit this site from time to time and read the discussions going on between the Brown Coats. All that they can see now are the non-firefly/Serenity discussions.

Maybe it’s our fault that Joss is now with FOX..

HIXIE129

Friday, December 28, 2007 1:18 PM

For me and for many others we knew that there were “them” and “us”. “Them” being the Alliance, the evil FOX network and “us” being Brown Coats. Since there are no more them and only us, what should we do now that there are no more them? Part of the Brown Coat existence was resisting them. And that being said, since it is only us what do us do to fill that void that was dogma in our verse..

I know that I haven’t been bringing my point across... a very feeble example might be: I grew up being told that Saint Christopher was a Saint.. Then after many years was told that he was no longer a Saint…

The verse has changed, the dogma of the verse has changed, I am just looking for answers to what is the new dogma of the verse.

JONGSSTRAW

Friday, December 28, 2007 1:40 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hixie129:
But doesn’t it feel like things have changed? The talk of Firefly/Serenity is so little except for some new converts that ask questions… The new converts are so few these days. The talk on this board is mostly about World events, politics or anything but Firefly or Serenity

You have a valid point, but I think it's a natural progression. There are about 30,000 FF Fans here & dozens of other sites with thousands of fans....and there ARE Firefly episode & character conversations every single day. Do they "dominate" this board? No. Should they? I don't know. I've been here over a year now, and I think it's a good mix of FF stuff, other sci-fi stuff, and current events. I mean really, hasn't most of the "limited" run of Firefly been discussed ad nauseum to a degree here? What else do you want to see here? People have got to move on somewhat in their lives....you can't get fixated at one point in time, otherwise you can become a very boring person ( like me ). Actually most of the time in my life I find I don't have a lot to say to people, especially new people. There are so many things these days you really can't discuss with a group of strangers or even people you know...like : politics, religion, and social issues. I've never been good at social mindless small talk...but if you wanna discuss Firefly, Star Trek, Babylon 5, etc etc I'm you're guy. So most people think I'm quiet and shy, because they wouldn't have a clue as to what I like to talk about, or I'd confirm their belief that I was a sci-fi geeky nerd. I go to sci-fi cons all the time.....when I tell co-workers, etc about a comic book I found, or a cult DVD, or that I met Lois Lane, they look at me like I'm 11 years old or something....maybe I am, but I know in my heart that I'll never grow up.

HIXIE129

Friday, December 28, 2007 2:00 PM

I agree JS, there are many benefits to this site other than firefly talk.. I am trying to find out if others feel the way I do about how our Brown Coat dogma has changed and what is the NEW dogma...

eample:
They can’t stop the signal, Who are they?, aren’t they “them” the FOX network? Since Joss is with FOX are we to surrender to FOX too?

Hold till I get back,, I didn’t know I had to hold till he returned from another FOX tour.. And what if FOX screws him again.

BILLYBIGBALLS

Friday, December 28, 2007 2:56 PM

Sounds like he sold out to me

Has he given up on Firefly/Serenity?
Who owns the rights to Firefly now, Fox or the Sci-Fi channel?
Would he have a cause in his contract allowing him to work for other networks?

I hate you Fox

RAHLMACLAREN

Friday, December 28, 2007 6:08 PM

Adding to BillyBigBalls questions.

Wasn't this "new execs hype" the same thing they used when Drive was coming out?
Exactly how *NEW* are these new execs?
Were they at F*X when Drive was canned?

More points than answerable questions.

--------------------------------------------------
Find here the Serenity you seek.

EVILDEAD1971

Friday, December 28, 2007 6:57 PM

i think part of the reason people are so mad at fox, cause firefly was a damn good show. i'm on my 4th time of watching the series, in the middle of trash right now. every episode has a moment where im about to cry, where i laugh out loud, where i cheer, where i boo. save for buffy, angel & futurama there is NO OTHER SHOW that makes me feel that way during one episode. heroes is good, but only hiro has the characteristics of a whedon creation.

as for joss joining the alliance... ever hear of a double agent?

---NOTE---
the above is my opinion. it's neither right or wrong

http://www.boomstick.org

JONGSSTRAW

Friday, December 28, 2007 7:39 PM

Maybe I'm nuts, but another possible "angle" to this is that perhaps if Joss' latest show is a big fat cashy-cow money hit, he will once again be the "golden boy" at Fox. Then he can use his power and people skills to get their backing on a new Firefly series. It's a GOOD thing that he's back with Fox...you know the old saying, right? : When you can't walk....no, not THAT one, this one : Keep your friends close, but keep your enemies closer.

EMBERS

Friday, December 28, 2007 8:15 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Maybe I'm nuts, but another possible "angle" to this is that perhaps if Joss' latest show is a big fat cashy-cow money hit, he will once again be the "golden boy" at Fox. Then he can use his power and people skills to get their backing on a new Firefly series. It's a GOOD thing that he's back with Fox...you know the old saying, right? : When you can't walk....no, not THAT one, this one : Keep your friends close, but keep your enemies closer.

this is exactly how I look at it!

Joss could hide at home and hold his breath, hoping that someday someone will will give him the money to bring back Firefly and/or make a Serenity sequel....

OR he could continue to be a great and innovative creator of new shows which reminds people (people at Fox and Universal) that they want to work with this guy.... and maybe it is time to bring back that Firefly/Serenity universe which still sells DVDs, inspires websites, and sells comic books.

Joss has said time and time again that he has not let go of Firefly, he loved that more than anything.... but it has to be done right (personally I could be happy with a radio play, but Joss wants his spaceship....)

I'm not giving up my dreams of a future for Firefly on TV or more of Serenity on the big screen... I don't think I'll ever assume that it is dead and gone (and I wonder about fans who give up so easily and are so easily depressed)

It took almost 10 years to get a Star Trek movie made (and they had so many Star Trek (original series) episodes that it was syndicated all over the place, and almost 15 years before the Star Trek universe was back on TV.... I don't think we'll have to wait that long, but if we do then I'll still be a fan and looking forward to enjoy it!

CHRISTHECYNIC

Friday, December 28, 2007 8:30 PM

I wrote a very nice post early on in this discussion that I apparently failed to actually post. That bugs me.

Anyway, it seems to me like having a lack of a clearly defined them should not be as much of a problem as it is for some people. "Us and them," is both overly simplistic and terribly unhelpful.

To use examples from Firefly people like Jayne don't exist as either us or them, people like Book can start as a part of them and move to become a part of us.

The world isn't black and white, there are no clear factions because though people do coeless into groups those groups are fluid with members entering and leaving and the groups themselves changing with their ever evolving membership. ox today is not the fox that there once was, and to judge it on its past mistakes is like judging the Catholic Church based on its actions in the Spanish Inquisition. Is it possible to judge the current orginization via the actions of the past one? Yes, but unless you are trying to be an asshole it probably isn't a good idea.

Fox may be made up of people not significantly different than those who were there when Firefly was executed. It may not. The worst that happens is that Dollhouse undergoes the same treatment as Firefly. Not as if we aren't used to it.

I would caution everyone to remember that the people currently at fox, who have thus far done us no wrong, are in all probability the only ones on earth with the power to bring Firefly back to tv. Maybe making them out to be the root of all evil isn't the most prudent course of action.

I don't consider it selling out to work with fox because the part of fox that wronged us was made up of people. People who are, by all accounts have heard, no longer at fox. I do not think all French people are evil because some French people have treated me like shit, likewise I do not believe every fox employee is evil just because some people employed there treated us like shit in the past. The difference is that the French people who treated me like shit are still French, the fox people who treated us like shit are, apparently, gone.

-

In closing, let me ask you something.

What would the show have been like if Mal had decided not to let Inara rent the shuttle because she supported unification?

FREELANCERTEX

Friday, December 28, 2007 8:41 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by ECGordon: Besides, he came up with Dollhouse at the insistence of Eliza Dushku, who already had a development deal at FOX, and Joss did it as a favor to her. And he is on record as stating there is now a favorable atmosphere at that studio and network. Why can't you accept that?

Eliza Dushku, reeeeeeeeeeeally? interesting. Favorable atmospheres provide for favorable opportunities ;)

Quote:
Originally posted by Hixie129: Hold till I get back,, I didn’t know I had to hold till he returned from another FOX tour.. And what if FOX screws him again.

Always with them negative waves, Moriarty. Always with them negative waves. Can't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?

As Gordon said, Joss said there is now a favorable atmosphere at the network, which means the people there are interested in his work, which means they like it. Sometimes you have to take the roundabout route to get where you want to go, do something to gain credibility in order to be able to do the things you want. I'm a strong believer in the idea that if you want something really bad, you'll eventually get it. You're not going to get anywhere if you just sit on your ass and WAIT for it to come to you.

__________________________
Have you ever wondered why in a dream you can touch a falling sky?
Or fly to the heavens that watch over you?

"I am a leaf on the wind, watch how I soar."

A man is least himself when he speaks in his own person. Give him a mask and he will show you his true self.

You can't take the sky from me...

11THHOUR

Friday, December 28, 2007 9:04 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by christhecynic:
I would caution everyone to remember that the people currently at fox, who have thus far done us no wrong, are in all probability the only ones on earth with the power to bring Firefly back to tv. Maybe making them out to be the root of all evil isn't the most prudent course of action.

While it is true that there is a different group of executives now at the FOX network than during Firefly's era, I'm not sure it can be stated that they have "done us no wrong". Case in point, the show Drive. But one would have had to be quick to have caught that show... FOX gave Drive a whopping 8 days to prove itself, and then killed it.

Considering that Drive had the involvement of Whedonverse allum such as Tim Minear, Nathan Fillion and Amy Acker, I'd say we fans were hurt by yet another murder in the crib.

All that aside, I still believe that Joss would not join forces again with FOX unless he had enough confidence that his show would receive better treatment. He may also feel that the premise of Dollhouse will have a better chance of grabbing audience numbers faster than the harder-to-define Firefly. I'm sure Joss is also only going in with more control built into his contract.

As much as the fans were devastated by the death of Firefly, no one was crushed more than Joss. No way he would go back into the lions' den unless he was better armed this time. Joss ain't dumb, and he understands the nature of the biz much better than many of the fans who ponder on his decisions.

11th Hour

>>>}———————————————)))======<[]>======(((———————————————{<<<

"Because teenage pranks are fun when you're about to die!" - Hoban Washburne

Firefly/Serenity Guerilla Marketing Posters ~ http://the11thhour.home.att.net
Firefly/Serenity inspired Cafe Press Shop ~ http://www.cafepress.com/11thhourart

HIXIE129

Friday, December 28, 2007 9:24 PM

Maybe Joss has the Helsinki syndrome or maybe he has been brainwashed and needs some deprogramming;

Joss is at FOX its done.. What about the loyal Brown Coats, do we surrender to the Evil Alliance?.

RALLEM

Friday, December 28, 2007 9:34 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Blackadder7:
I think you have to separate the people from the entity. 'FOX' didn't cancel Firefly. A person did. It serves no real purpose to blame the entity for the shortsightedness of a single individual.

Think of it this way. If you eat at a restaurant, and the food stinks, but a few years later, the place is under new management with a new chef. Would you give the restaurant another chance? I probably would. Looks like Joss would too...

I disagree, it is our purpose to bring Fox to its knees until it relizes that it needs to make more firefly episodes or until it is dead. Muhahaha

EMBERS

Friday, December 28, 2007 9:39 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by christhecynic:

To use examples from Firefly people like Jayne don't exist as either us or them,

woah there cowboy...
Jayne may not meet YOUR standards as them or us... but he is definitely one of my 'us'!!
He admired Mal and was trying to emulate him...
(with only limited success, but he gets some points for choosing a good role model)
Jayne made a huge mistake by assuming that Simon & River were not part of Mal's crew
(Jayne had wrongly put them into the rich privileged 'them' category)

so of course all that just goes to further your argument...that it is ALL gray area, and we can't just assume someone is against us...
after all, Jayne did fight hard to protect everyone (including himself of course)

I agree w/11thHour that Fox execs (like the execs at any of the networks and/or studios) may screw Joss again over Dollhouse, but they are excited about doing it now...and we have to hope that it is a commercial success which could (in time) lead us to getting Firefly and/or Serenity back in some form....

I have to say that I am VERY impressed w/Miss Eliza Dushku in putting this deal together....
Joss wasn't looking to sign w/Fox any time soon, but once he was all excited about the project it was easy to get him to reconsider (well not EASY, I'm betting that Fox may have had to reassure him about not interfering or being quick to cancel...)

and then finally:

Quote:

In closing, let me ask you something.

What would the show have been like if Mal had decided not to let Inara rent the shuttle because she supported unification?

excellent point, I'm sure that Mal had learned that it was a mistake to cut off his nose to spite his face...
that is to say: he needed the money....
but also, I'm guessing that a beautiful woman who had supported the Alliance was probably easier to accept than if it had been some jerk of a dude.

just sayin'

BILLYBIGBALLS

Friday, December 28, 2007 9:48 PM

Isn't this a good time to hold Fox to ransom, arent they crying out to get shows written because of the writers strike...he could of struck a deal to write them some reality bullshit show in return for backing of another Firefly series...or am I totally clueless in how this stuff goes down

I aim to misbehave

11THHOUR

Friday, December 28, 2007 9:51 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hixie129:
Maybe Joss has the Helsinki syndrome or maybe he has been brainwashed and needs some deprogramming;

Nah. Joss is just pulling a move like Angel did when he agreed to work at Wolfram & Hart. The best strategy is to attack evil from the inside.

Quote:
Joss is at FOX its done.. What about the loyal Brown Coats, do we surrender to the Evil Alliance?

Not me. I'll wait until Joss gets his show on FOX, then encourage people to watch Dollhouse, and only Dollhouse. Then the ratings will skyrocket for that show (and plummet for everything else) and FOX will beg Joss to create more shows for them.

Then Joss will be declared King of FOX, change the name of the network to JOSS TV, bring back Firefly, and invite all the folks who have worked for him to develop shows for his network.

Works for me.

11th Hour
Loyal Browncoat

CHRISTHECYNIC

Friday, December 28, 2007 9:53 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hixie129:
Maybe Joss has the Helsinki syndrome or maybe he has been brainwashed and needs some deprogramming;

Joss is at FOX its done.. What about the loyal Brown Coats, do we surrender to the Evil Alliance?.

If we assume for a moment that you are right and it is Fox, not the people who were at Fox, who are our antagonists then I have to ask you something. How is this a bad thing?

If you are right and we are fighting against Fox how is Joss going into the lair of the beast wielding his greatest weapon (a, presumably, quality TV show) a bad thing?

I've always found that it's more impressive, and more useful, to convert and opponent than to destroy one. If Fox is our enemy better we convert it, and thus win while keeping it intact.

Generally in warfare, keeping a nation intact is best, destroying a nation second best;
keeping an army intact is best, destroying an army second best;
keeping a battalion intact is best, destroying a battalion second best;
keeping a company intact is best, destroying a company second best;
keeping a squad intact is best, destroying a squad second best.

Therefore, to gain a hundred victories in a hundred battles is not the highest excellence;
to subjugate the enemy's army without doing battle is the highest of excellence.
- The Art of War by Sun Tzu, Chapter III

HIXIE129

Friday, December 28, 2007 9:58 PM

11thHour

I like it, I don't believe it, but I like it.

hris, Did you even watch Firefly, when did they ever try an convert the Alliance.

CHRISTHECYNIC

Friday, December 28, 2007 10:05 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by embers:
Quote:
Originally posted by christhecynic:

To use examples from Firefly people like Jayne don't exist as either us or them,

woah there cowboy...
Jayne may not meet YOUR standards as them or us... but he is definitely one of my 'us'!!

I'm just sayin' that if we want ridgedly defined groups of Us and Them then Jayne who was fine -no, giddy with the prospect of working with the Alliance to turn members of Us (Simon and River) over to Them (the Alliance) it would seem that Jayne was a member of Them, after all why would a member of Us be so happy to work with Them against Us?

On the other hand Jayne is clearly a member of Us. So Jayne is both with Us and with Them, this cannot be in a strict dichotomy so Jayne does not fit into the Us-Them dichotomy.

If, on the other hand, we drop the idea of a strict Us-Them, which is what I advocate, we can go with the clearly and consider Jayne as one of us with no problem.

CHRISTHECYNIC

Friday, December 28, 2007 10:11 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hixie129:
hris, Did you even watch Firefly, when did they ever try an convert the Alliance.

Never said they did. Would like to point out that, since the end of the war, they have not openly opposed the Alliance either.

They did, however, convert their most powerful enemy to date (the operative) and he was representing the Alliance.

RALLEM

Friday, December 28, 2007 10:29 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by christhecynic:
Quote:
Originally posted by Hixie129:
Maybe Joss has the Helsinki syndrome or maybe he has been brainwashed and needs some deprogramming;

Joss is at FOX its done.. What about the loyal Brown Coats, do we surrender to the Evil Alliance?.

If we assume for a moment that you are right and it is Fox, not the people who were at Fox, who are our antagonists then I have to ask you something. How is this a bad thing?

If you are right and we are fighting against Fox how is Joss going into the lair of the beast wielding his greatest weapon (a, presumably, quality TV show) a bad thing?

I've always found that it's more impressive, and more useful, to convert and opponent than to destroy one. If Fox is our enemy better we convert it, and thus win while keeping it intact.

Generally in warfare, keeping a nation intact is best, destroying a nation second best;
keeping an army intact is best, destroying an army second best;
keeping a battalion intact is best, destroying a battalion second best;
keeping a company intact is best, destroying a company second best;
keeping a squad intact is best, destroying a squad second best.

Therefore, to gain a hundred victories in a hundred battles is not the highest excellence;
to subjugate the enemy's army without doing battle is the highest of excellence.
- The Art of War by Sun Tzu, Chapter III

It may be more impressive and useful to convert an opponent, but sometimes it is High-larious to destroy your opponent.

EMBERS

Friday, December 28, 2007 10:38 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by christhecynic:

I'm just sayin' that if we want ridgedly defined groups of Us and Them then Jayne who was fine -no, giddy with the prospect of working with the Alliance to turn members of Us (Simon and River) over to Them (the Alliance) it would seem that Jayne was a member of Them, after all why would a member of Us be so happy to work with Them against Us?

it is true that Jayne was giddy w/the prospect of working w/the Alliance when he went to turn in the Tamms....
and do you recall how shocked he was when the Alliance representative double crossed him?
That is because he was so completely clueless about the Alliance and what they stand for...
Mal knew (and wasn't surprised at all that Jayne had been cheated, that is what these people do)

And actually Simon could have told him, because Simon was born and raised in the Alliance friendly society....

So in a way, Jayne's naïveté is proof positive that he has never had any dealings with the Alliance before and has learned now never to do so in the future!

Which doesn't support our position here of Joss going back to work for Fox again.... and my point is getting lost in my defense of my beloved Jayne.....

HIXIE129

Friday, December 28, 2007 10:50 PM

Embers, I agree with it anyway..

CHRISTHECYNIC

Friday, December 28, 2007 10:57 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by embers:
and my point is getting lost in my defense of my beloved Jayne.....

My point, wrt this point, is that the best way do defend Jayne is to drop the idea of a ridged well-defined Us and Them.

HIXIE129

Friday, December 28, 2007 11:14 PM

How about a democratic vote?.

A Simple YES or NO vote.. That’s all I would like. I want to know if the Brown Coats will surrender to FOX as Joss did. I will go along with the majority…

Vote Yes to……… surrendering to the Evil suck ass Alliance that ruined our favorite show and characters. The FOX network that made “US” live in torment these last few years. Yes to kissing their ass and begging at their table for scraps.. And to saying in the future that we love Dollhouse even if it stinks just so that we can hold out for a glimmer of hope that FOX might bring back Firefly..

Vote NO to…… I will never surrender to that Evil Frackin Network and would rather watch the TOON channel for the rest of my life. I am a Brown Coat, I may have chosen the losing side but still not sure it was the wrong side.

I vote NO

FOLLOWMAL

Saturday, December 29, 2007 1:15 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hixie129:
Vote NO to…… I will never surrender to that Evil Frackin Network and would rather watch the TOON channel for the rest of my life. I am a Brown Coat, I may have chosen the losing side but still not sure it was the wrong side.

I vote NO

In an above post you admitted to watching sports on F*x. Better quit doing that then.

HIXIE129

Saturday, December 29, 2007 1:18 AM

I will in less than a month, right after football season.

FOLLOWMAL

Saturday, December 29, 2007 1:19 AM

I'm sorry, but if your convictions about this are so strong... you'd think you'd be willing to give up football for them.

HIXIE129

Saturday, December 29, 2007 1:21 AM

If you vote I might

FOLLOWMAL

Saturday, December 29, 2007 1:23 AM

You surely don't need my vote to stand upon your convictions. ;-)

HIXIE129

Saturday, December 29, 2007 1:27 AM

No, I do not FollowMal, I just wanted to see someone vote one way or another. It makes me sad to see no conviction from the Brown Coat Nation.

BLACKADDER7

Saturday, December 29, 2007 1:35 AM

I wouldn't even know what to vote for. Is there some copy of a 'Browncoat Manifesto' that I missed reading? I always thought being a Browncoat meant loving and supporting Firefly (and subsequently, Serenity). Never occurred to me that it involved boycotting a whole network because of a bad decision 5 years ago.

Guess I've been violating the Manifesto by watching House (which is a great show, btw) and 24.

My vote is this: if Dollhouse is good, I'll watch it. If it sucks, I won't. Makes no difference to me if it's on FOX, NBC, ABC, ESPN or the Oxygen Channel. It's Joss, and thusly, I'll check it out.

ECGORDON

Saturday, December 29, 2007 1:41 AM

Sorry, Hixie, but I have to vote...

YES.

First off, you are using an invalid analogy. The Alliance is a fictionalized creation from the mind of Joss Whedon. If anything, it represented the Bush Administration, or possibly the Reagan/Bush41/Bush43 hegemony. It was not intended to represent the FOX television network, although that was a convenient thing to think after Firefly was axed.

Are you only a Firefly fan, or are you a Joss Whedon fan? The man has created three of the most brilliant television series of all time, and all three would be placed in my Top 10 ranking of shows. Yes, Firefly is #1, and I think it unlikely anything is going to topple it from the top of the list anytime soon, even another Joss show.

I don't know at what point you came into the fandom, but I watched it from the beginning, cursed FOX when it was canceled, bought the dvds as soon as they were available, and have watched the show well over two dozen times by now. I have also given away more than ten copies to friends and family, donated to the library and to the DVDs for the Troops campaign.

But no matter how mad I was at FOX, I did watch Wonderfalls (all four episodes they aired), all seven episodes aired of The Inside, and all four of Drive (plus the last two online). I also watched some (but not all) of Tru Calling, and some of Standoff and Bones.

As I stated earlier in this thread, if I boycotted a network that had canceled a beloved show, I would not be able to watch any network television at all. I'm 57 years old, and have seen many shows canceled far before their time.

I trust Joss, not much else needs to be said.

wo men ren ran zai fei xing.

HIXIE129

Saturday, December 29, 2007 1:42 AM

I remember a couple of years ago there was a boycott call on FOX by the brown coats... Boycott FOX , boycott the advertisers, Write letters, picket lines at the studio....

ECGORDON

Saturday, December 29, 2007 1:46 AM

So you are now saying that you will no longer watch sports on the FOX network, that you will boycott them completely?

Even if your answer is yes, I don't think I have to use your logic in coming to a decision on my own.

I still vote YES. I will watch Dollhouse. And Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles.

wo men ren ran zai fei xing.

HIXIE129

Saturday, December 29, 2007 1:47 AM

Thank you for your vote ecgordon, I am glad that you had the conviction to vote.. I am a Firefly fan, I am not a devoted buffy nor Angel fan... So my stake in this is limited. I realize that the Alliance was before firefly was axed, but FOX became the symbol of the Alliance for me and others. As I stated I will go with the majority

FOLLOWMAL

Saturday, December 29, 2007 1:47 AM

Hixie, I understand your passion, I really do.

But just as you're not quite convicted enough to let go of football on F*x, I'm not quite convicted enough to quit watching F*x and am willing to give it a chance.

I did it with Drive and had heartache. I'll do it again with something else too. Probably with F*x and with another network too. Because seeing new shows, liking or loving new shows and losing them is part of life.

And all aside from that... my allegiance is to Joss. I trust him. I'm a Browncoat because he made me one. I never lose sight of that.

I LOVE his stories. I don't care where he goes to tell them to me, I don't care if I don't get to see them all, I can withstand the heartache for a chance to live that magic he makes ... even if for a short time.

Because I believe that Joss knows what he's doing. He is not naive, he's savvy to the industries vagaries and he knows the game he's playing.

Besides, as much as I love being a Browncoat and I am loyal to you all, our beloved show and spreading it around to new folks, I'm also just a human who loves good tv. And I'll take it however I can get it. Joss makes perfect tv. I am looking forward to watching it on F*x with relish. Just as I'd wager you enjoy watching football with relish on F*x.

It's not about F*x it's about us and what we love.
There is no battle, there is no war, there is no them and us. There's just us. Watching for the next magic Joss brings us.

"Wars long done. We're all just folk now." - Mal

HIXIE129

Saturday, December 29, 2007 2:05 AM

Well said FollowMal,, I guess I am still so bitter after all these years, I still look at FOX to vent my rage. And Joss signing with FOX hurt very much too.. But you are wise FollowMal and I must deal with all my pain.. Someday it might get better for me.. Thanks

MOOSE

Saturday, December 29, 2007 2:48 AM

I will watch and recommend Dollhouse only because of the involvement of Joss. I also fully expect it to only last a few episodes.

F*X has a looong history of screwing over shows that I enjoy. So it's gonna take a lot more than Joss working with them to get me to "forgive" them.

EMBERS

Saturday, December 29, 2007 3:15 AM

I vote yes, yes I would follow Joss to hell if need be!
I am Whedon's bitch and I will watch any show he makes, I'll buy the DVDs, and the comic books, and the action figures.
I'll draw lots of fan art, design my own t-shirts and buy the official ones too.
I don't care where he goes, or what show he creates, I'll be there.

yes, absolutely positively. yes.

HIXIE129

Saturday, December 29, 2007 3:57 AM

embers, it is good to be in touch with your true self

FOLLOWMAL

Saturday, December 29, 2007 5:10 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hixie129:
I guess I am still so bitter after all these years, I still look at FOX to vent my rage. And Joss signing with FOX hurt very much too. I must deal with all my pain.. Someday it might get better for me.. Thanks

I understand the bitterness. But it's long wasted on them now and only makes you feel bad.
I hate to see anyone feeling bad with all the stuff we have to be grateful for. :-)
I hope it does get better for you... there is so much to enjoy. Past laments, past the pain is fun... with us, with new shows and with the hope we have for more FF/S one of these days.

Quote:
Originally posted by Moose:
F*X has a looong history of screwing over shows that I enjoy. So it's gonna take a lot more than Joss working with them to get me to "forgive" them.

I don't have to forgive them or forget what they've done to watch what they put out for me to see. If it's what I love, if it's good, I'm watchin'!

MOOSE

Saturday, December 29, 2007 7:26 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by FollowMal:

If it's what I love, if it's good, I'm watchin'!

The problem is that by the time it's realized that it's good and worth watchin', it's GONE!

HIXIE129

Saturday, December 29, 2007 1:28 PM

Blackadder your vote doesn't count, its a yes or no vote.

FREELANCERTEX

Saturday, December 29, 2007 5:21 PM

Quote:
Hixie129: A Simple YES or NO vote.. That’s all I would like. I want to know if the Brown Coats will surrender to FOX as Joss did. I will go along with the majority…

Wait, so you started this whole argument in protest of what Joss did and to express how wrong and betraying it was, but you'd give up your opinion and concede to a majority vote just because it's what everyone else thinks is right?

You're making it sound like Joss is giving up, and he's not. He's choosing a different path. And, as has been said before, you can't condemn a whole network for the actions of the few or the one, especially the few or the one that aren't there anymore. And if you support Joss, really support what he does and what he has created, you should continue to support him in future endeavors, because you never know, our support for this upcoming story may just open the door to relight the Firefly once more.

Quote:
And to saying in the future that we love Dollhouse even if it stinks just so that we can hold out for a glimmer of hope that FOX might bring back Firefly..

You sound as if you've already made up your mind that it's going to suck no matter what. Give it a chance, stop being close-minded. Maybe, just maybe, it'll be really great. Ever think of that option? I know it's kind of the other end of the spectrum, but I think Joss is capable of writing something great. I mean, look at Firefly.

Quote:
I will never surrender to that Evil Frackin Network and would rather watch the TOON channel for the rest of my life.

That's just immature.

If by "surrendering" to Fox you mean keeping an open mind and actually giving Dollhouse a chance, and not shunning it just because it's different from what YOU want, and making an effort to support it for Joss and the hope we still hold onto that Firefly will someday return (and it will) then I'm going to have to say to you that I am a Browncoat, I wear my colors proudly, and I'm voting yes.

__________________________
Have you ever wondered why in a dream you can touch a falling sky?
Or fly to the heavens that watch over you?

"I am a leaf on the wind, watch how I soar."

A man is least himself when he speaks in his own person. Give him a mask and he will show you his true self.

You can't take the sky from me...

OUT2THEBLACK

Saturday, December 29, 2007 5:52 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hixie129:
Maybe Joss has the Helsinki syndrome or maybe he has been brainwashed and needs some deprogramming;

Joss is at FOX its done.. What about the loyal Brown Coats, do we surrender to the Evil Alliance?

Nope...Not Helsinki Syndrome...You're not even

in the right country , dude ! That would

be 'Stockholm' Syndrome...You can look it up

later...

Browncoats Surrender ? If you have to ask ,

then I wonder if you're an Alliance Operative

yourself...

Browncoats Surrender ? Never , NEVER ,

NEVER !!!

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
" Quiet desperation is the English way..."
--Pink Floyd
***********************************************************************************************************************************

" Will work for Bar Credit at The Brown Coat Pub and Theatre "

CHRISTHECYNIC

Saturday, December 29, 2007 11:20 PM

There is such a thing as a false dichotomy, the proposed vote is one of them.

I will NOT watch Dollhouse because the premise is personally repulsive to me. I'm not sure if it is even possible to make something that would repel me more and still have it legally allowed to be broadcast.

Does that mean I will never watch anything on Fox, no. I may or may not at some time in the future find something that I believe Fox has done which is both worth watching and personally appealing to me.

Given that I can't say I will never watch Fox, and I likewise can not say yes to, " saying in the future that we love Dollhouse," where does that put my vote? I am not so weak minded that I will change my position just so you can have your false dichotomy.

-

Now I have a question for you, since when was being a browncoat about bowing to the will of the majority? If you truly believe that Fox is so evil we should never watch a scripted show there (though not evil enough to forsake football) why are you willing to turn away from that belief just because a majority disagrees?

I could understand if you were willing to part with your convictions because someone convinced you were wrong, that's part of what sanity is all about, but to give up on your convictions because they got voted down ... well that isn't very independent-like.

Now some may say that the independents should have been killed off of every world spinning, but I think people shouldn't bow to the will of the majority just because the majority says so. If you think Fox should be boycotted except during sporting events I'll support your right to think that and follow through with it if you so choose regardless of the will of the majority and even though I disagree with you. To do otherwise wouldn't be very browncoat-like of me.

BROWNCOAT2007

Sunday, December 30, 2007 5:41 AM

Wow... I'm a self professed Firefly FANATIC... but isn't this takeing it a bit far mate??

I will personally watch this show because

1) JOSS WHEDON WROTE IT!!!!
2) It seems similar to John Doe... another good scifi show that I liked a bunch, and the premise seems interesting to me

BORIS

Sunday, December 30, 2007 7:09 AM

You are obviously deeply affected by this. everyone is entitled to their passions...forgive me for my presumptiosness, but perhaps to temper/detract from your unhappiness you may find it comforting to re channel your impressive passion towards issues that are globally relevant perhaps something relating to underdogs/minorities/browncoats in society. again not trying to critiscise just offering a suggestion, as to what a Browncoat is to do while they ponder upon a solution to their current dilema.

P.S. Sad as it is, General's have to pay bills too, and sometimes that requires defection.

HIXIE129

Sunday, December 30, 2007 12:01 PM

OUT2THEBLACK, I stand corrected on the Syndrome, but an Alliance operative I am not..

CHRISTHECYNIC Brown Coats are a minority, but I will accept the majority rule of Brown Coat Nation.. I don’t think one man can be an island.

Browncoat7, Many people are Joss fans, and they follow him blindly, as for me I think that he is great and I am a fan of some of his work..

If Firefly came back tomorrow and Joss never wrote another episode of the series and let’s say that Jane Espenson wrote all of the new shows that would be just fine with me…

Boris, I personally don’t believe that global affairs should be discussed here.. I think global topics should be discussed at sites that are devoted to those topics.. I myself like discussing things related to firefly/ Serenity on this site mostly because this site has been a firefly FAN site.

Boris, Generals do defect, I want to know should the troops defect too.

CHRISTHECYNIC

Sunday, December 30, 2007 2:18 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hixie129:
CHRISTHECYNIC Brown Coats are a minority, but I will accept the majority rule of Brown Coat Nation.. I don’t think one man can be an island.

So you are saying that blindly accepting the rule of the majority within a group is ok, just so long as the group itself is a minority?

Quote:
If Firefly came back tomorrow and Joss never wrote another episode of the series and let’s say that Jane Espenson wrote all of the new shows that would be just fine with me…

Unless of course it came back on Fox (the most likely place for it to do so), in which case if your vote turns out a certain way you will have vowed never to watch it or anything else (other than football) Fox ever again (because watching shows on, or making shows at, Fox is somehow akin to surrender), you would rather watch the TOON Channel for the rest of you life.

-

Remember, this isn't defection or surrender, this is one detail away from exactly what we want. Joss is back at Fox producing a show. Anyone and everyone who wants Firefly back on the air wants Joss back at Fox producing a show. The only difference between what is happening and total victory on our part is that the show Joss is producing is not Firefly. It is a gorram huge detail, but if Joss being at Fox producing a show means he has surrendered or defected means that if we ever win (and don't you want to win?) it can likewise be described as surrender or defection because victory will, by defintion, include Joss being at Fox producing a show. Does that seem right to you?

Joss creating a show at Fox is a major victory for us, a step a great distance in the right direction. If Fox screws it over it is a major defeat, such is life. I'm trying to see it from your perspective, truly I am, but given that what most of us seem to want most necessarily involves Joss working for Fox, I don't see how him working for Fox is in itself bad. At best it is a step towards our goal, at worst nothing bad happens to us. Wouldn't it be great if all situations were like that?

HIXIE129

Sunday, December 30, 2007 3:10 PM

If firefly were to come back to FOX then I am sure the majority of Brown Coats would support it, and so would I. No problem. And I wouldn't have to watch the TOON channel.

Is Joss being FOX is a step forward?, sure, but I don't trust FOX. Has Brown Coat majority forgiven FOX since Joss has taken a job there, it seems some have forgiven and they have forgotten their pain and the void that still exists without the verse. For me Dollhouse is no replacement.

ECGORDON

Sunday, December 30, 2007 7:03 PM

Hixie, I think you are wrong. None of us that are voting YES have forgotten what a heartache Firefly's cancelation was, and still is. I doubt I will ever truly forgive (those certain executives at) FOX for what they did to our shiny show. But I trust Joss to create, write and produce a show that is worth watching, whether or not I ultimately think it is as good as Firefly. The fact that he has been given another chance after the bitter way his previous relationship there ended I think is a sign of hope, both for Joss and the Browncoats, and possibly for the eventual revival of Firefly.

Personally, I don't care if you watch Dollhouse or not, but I think your watching sports on FOX but nothing else is highly hypocritical. It's still the same network, and NBC, CBS and ESPN run plenty of football anyway.

wo men ren ran zai fei xing.

BLACKADDER7

Sunday, December 30, 2007 7:14 PM

I totally agree with you EC. And as much as I hold the execs at FOX that cancelled Firefly in disdain, I tend to think of the following:

Were it not for those same execs, it's very likely that Firefly wouldn't even exist. No other network would touch the show with a 100 foot pole (and after the show was cancelled, he tried to bring it elsewhere. no other network, not even the cable channels, wanted anything to do with Firefly). Part of me is grateful to FOX that they even gave the show a chance. I mean, let's be serious. It's a space western. With funny, pretty characters, sure, but how hard a concept must that have been to sell to anyone? So without FOX, there'd probably be no Firefly, no Browncoats, no Serenity, and no fandom.

HIXIE129

Tuesday, January 1, 2008 1:50 PM

B adder7, FOX produced firefly because Joss was there already.. When Firefly was canceled Joss did not shop around to the other networks Firefly, FOX owned the rights to the show... As far as I know FOX still has the rights.

ECGORDON

Tuesday, January 1, 2008 2:22 PM

Sorry, but you are wrong again, Hixie.

The television rights to Firefly reside at 20th Century Fox Studios, not the FOX television network. Yes, they are owned by the same conglomerate corporation, Rupert Murdoch's News Corps, but they are separate business entities.

They did allow Joss to shop the show around, but none were buying, mainly due to the expense. As someone else mentioned earlier in this thread, we should be grateful that FOX gave us the opportunity to see the show at all, but we should also curse them for canceling it, along with all the other networks that were not receptive to keeping Serenity flying.

FOREVERFIREFLYFAN

Tuesday, January 1, 2008 10:51 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 11thHour:

Then Joss will be declared King of FOX, change the name of the network to JOSS TV, bring back Firefly, and invite all the folks who have worked for him to develop shows for his network.

Works for me.

11th Hour
Loyal Browncoat

Works for me too 11th Hour.

ROBYADI

Wednesday, January 2, 2008 5:02 AM

I was mad at the idea of Joss working on another show. It seemed to me that he has this gem of a show (firefly) with wonderful characters and stories and hes just holding it back for himself. Instead of trying to push the idea for more big damn sequals or shows dealing with the verse he works on something else. I know he wants to work on more firefly based things but he doesn't hold all the cards.

I understand that by doing another show with FOX he could gain some ground there and if the show does well the same thing could happen as it did before. While working on Buffy FOX wanted another show outa him so he gave them Firefly. Maybe the same could happen again.

Alls I know is I am one frustrated fan. I saw the show over a year ago and have been geeked about it ever since. I just got my girlfriend to watch it with me and she loves it. And this girl hates... HATES sci-fi stuff. She can't stop loving the show. No one can. I wish there was just more I could do.

FREELANCERTEX

Sunday, January 6, 2008 12:36 AM

as someone on this thread said before, "Even Generals have to pay the bills." he can't sit on his @ss wishing for more sequels or another chance at Firefly (as I have said before). And just because he's working on this thing now, doesn't mean he's not still working on his baby, his love. he will never abandon Firefly. he's not holding back, he's trying to create another chance to share his passion.

There is something you can do. keep supporting what we all love :) keep supporting Joss. and keep the hope alive.

__________________________
Have you ever wondered why in a dream you can touch a falling sky?
Or fly to the heavens that watch over you?

"I am a leaf on the wind, watch how I soar."

A man is least himself when he speaks in his own person. Give him a mask and he will show you his true self.

You can't take the sky from me...