Examining Anti-Americanism
POSTED BY: Khyron
UPDATED: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 16:25
VIEWED: 6927
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The other thread ( http://fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=18&t=28392) has gotten quite long, so maybe it's time for another one.
Okay, so it's Geezer vs SignyM ... round 143? I don't know, I've run out of fingers to count on a long time ago. But regardless of my inability to keep track of numbers above 10, let's continue the great debate.
"The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter."
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I'll start off by posting Rue's thought-provoking post from the previous thread (hope you're okay with that, Rue):
Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
SignyM,
I was thinking about expressed v silent anti-Americanism.
If the US should ever need help, to whom would it turn? Let's say China decided to call in it's debt* and the US economy took a dive. Who would help out? Or would you see anti-Americanism in full force as the countries who previously felt inhibited suddenly faced no more repercussions?
My sense is that the US would be swarmed - figuratively speaking - by countries getting in whatever licks they could.
I think that would be the prediction of most people. And that is a tacit acknowledgement that the US isn't envied. B/c if the US were to suddenly become, say, destitute, there would be no more envy and so no more anti-Americanism.
* Not that it's doing that, my understanding is they are actively buying things w/ US dollars as a way to dump dollars
"The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter."
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I read a book (I think it was 'Warday') about a post-nuclear war U.S. where the nukes were largely contained to the U.S. and the Soviet Union. The author was of the opinion that the only countries that would stand by us in our hour of need would be Britain and Japan and the rest would ignore us or try to screw with us.
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Quote:Why would western Europe envy the USA? Their standard of living is in many ways higher than ours.
Fear is a vast oversimplification. You might be able to make the case that some countries have reason to fear us. Syria, North Korea, Iran maybe. But even in those cases, I don’t think fear is as big as motivator as you're making it out to be. Even after Iraq and Afghanistan most countries that pose a threat to the US don’t really expect to be invaded by the US. But most countries don’t pose a threat, like France which has one of the largest anti-American populations? French people don’t fear the US. Neither do Germans or Canadians or the Brits or the Irish. And you will find considerable anti-Americanism in all of these countries. Envy is a better explanation.
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Always look upstream.
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The only beef I have with the previous thread is DTH's clearly defined anti-American manifesto. Being an ignorant, red blooded flag waver I can only assume her opinion is representative of the entire poulation's beliefs about us. Therefore, I decree that we should invade Ireland, seizing all stockpiles of Guinness. To arms!!!
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We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far.
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Quote:True, but on balance the US is still more successful, and many in Western Europe feel that this success is undeserved. Kind of like a C-average student who goes off to become very successful in his career; the B- and A-average students who have less success will inevitably be jealous.
Originally posted by SignyM:
Why would western Europe envy the USA? Their standard of living is in many ways higher than ours.
However, I don't think envy is the major reason for anti-Americanism (if there is a major reason, which I doubt, it's probably many things that add up), although I think it plays more of a role than fear does.
"The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter."
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Sin, in my opinion DTH's concept was a list of constructive criticism we'd be well advised to take note of, in much the same fashion you would advise a friend who's about to do something supremely stupid.
The only analogy I can possibly apply would be trying to reason with and help a friend that has fallen into the throes of severe addiction and denial - truth is, that is how a lot of the world sees us right now, even now, as a friend who has started to slide down into something horrible.
Sure, some have given up on us, like happens many a time in the above analogy, but a good bit of it is also the equivalent of trying to snatch the baggie away before we kill ourselves with it.
War and Hate are addictive poisons, and America needs some serious rehab, and soon - or some day we might find those UN Blue Helmets *here*, which would precipitate a disaster beyond all reckoning, given how certain far-right elements get almost pre-orgasmic at the thought of blowing away UN troops.
(And no, that's not hyperbole, and I *wish* I was kidding, go look for yourself if you don't believe.)
Right now we got one, that's right, count it, ONE, planet to live on, and we as a species ain't even civilized to share it, can you just imagine how bad it could get if we did manage to get off ?
Be very glad we don't have contact with other specie out there, they'd probably regard us the same way we regard a wasp nest in the corner of our workshop and respond in the same fashion.
Just some thoughts,
-Frem
It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it
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Quote:
Originally posted by fredgiblet:
I read a book (I think it was 'Warday') about a post-nuclear war U.S. where the nukes were largely contained to the U.S. and the Soviet Union. The author was of the opinion that the only countries that would stand by us in our hour of need would be Britain and Japan and the rest would ignore us or try to screw with us.
I would ask the author why he left Israel, Canada, Australia, and The US virgin islands off that list.....
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"My sense is that the US would be swarmed - figuratively speaking - by countries getting in whatever licks they could."
In this one little opinion, one can find the root cause of anti-USA sentiment. We don't lick. We kick - figuratively speaking - and that, my little brown friends, bothers some.......Read what I just wrote....Again....Once more......
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Is it possible that some of the anti-American resentment is fueled by our blatantly arrogant truthyness? Take this gem as example:
As an American who has lived the past 3 years in the UK, I am sorry to say that I must agree with the "bad teeth" stereotype. I know that some Brits (as I have been reading in the above comments) see us Americans as being "obsessed" with good teeth, but some of the teeth I see here are absolutely appalling. Otherwise attractive people are rendered hideous by misshapen, stained, rotten teeth. One time a man I was talking with in a pub claimed he was getting drunk that night so he could go home and pull his bad tooth. When I asked why he didn't go to a dentist he announced, with pride, that he had never been to a dentist in his life. I found it absolutely disgusting - just as if he had announced he had never bathed. I have also seen women in the UK spend thousands of pounds on cosmetic surgeries, including breast augmentation, while completely ignoring a mouthful of crooked, fang-like tobacco stained teeth that badly effect their appearance more than anything else. Sorry, Britain. Us "yanks" happen to be right about this one!
Jovanka Steele-Williamson, London UK
I love my fellow 'Yanks'.... Always tell it like it is......even if it gets us in a little trouble.
I joke of course. I would like to point out that Americans don't care what other nations think about us...sad? Maybe, but it is very true. It is almost impossible to make the average US citizen feel bad. We are raised with huge amounts of national pride. We know we are the creme DE la creme(pardon my French). We know we are the star quarterback in a class full of chess players. We have this pointed out to us at a very young age. I think having that trait, in a time when other countries are chock full of metrosexuals and lesbians, may work against us in world opinion. But, just as parents don't let children rule the home, US citizens have to take our places as the universe's Alpha males and Beta females....sorry.
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